Which UCA and LCA?

[bonefish]

So what brand of these did you use? Thinking J&M seems to be most popular. I need or am looking for street version or a street/race version. I'll probably do very little down the strip but, maybe a little. So...do I need just the basic arms or should I go adjustable? I want to get this right the first time so, let me know. If I don't need adjustabloe or if I only need it on one or the other..looking for help/advice.

 

Thanks in advance!

[sprint200]

Do a search for "Tob" & look at his Mod's. For a DD car a very good list of parts for my $$$$'s

[TexasShelby]

I drive my early '07 with spirit, but only on the street. No track.

 

I put a set of Steeda springs for a vert, BMR LCAs (no brackets) and a BMR adjustable panhard bar.

 

The car then got 20" wheels with 255/35 and 285/30 tires.

 

The ride has not been affected much at all, but the handling has improved a great deal.

 

And the car has much less road noise with the new Nitto INVO tires as compared to the GYF1.

[frydguy79]

i have put 10 sets of J&M uca's and lcas on and everyone is very pleased and the bushing's have a lifetime warranty on them :happy feet:

[overtime]

I installed the J&M Billet LCA's (like the look of the aluminum) and J&M double adjustable UCA with Metco mount. I went with the adjustable UCA so the pinion angle could be adjusted since I installed lowering springs.

 

Happy with my choices so far.

[clark17357]

I stuck with American made products. My Metco upper and lowers have performed well on the street and track.

 

Jim

[Tob]

If you merged all the LCA and UCA threads into one - you'd have infinity on your hands.

 

For me, my research led me to two of the most successful vendors that road race, either Griggs or Maximum Motorsports. Griggs product line favors the twisties quite heavily - as does Maximum. I don't see J&M, Metco, BMR, etc, taking the podium in this type of venue. Many support Steeda, and while they have a fairly nice product line, I see them running a distant third to Griggs and MM.

 

Drag racing seems to run the gamut, where everyone seems to garner their piece of the pie. Many seem comfortable with urethane bushings to replace the factory rubber, regardless of the company that makes the arm. I don't. Regardless of whatever the latest band aid design is to increase the longevity of a urethane bushing, the material is still a compromise. I see it as half way between rubber and a steel joint. It all comes down to your usage and your priorities.

 

Do a search for "Tob" & look at his Mod's. For a DD car a very good list of parts for my $$$$'s

 

As Jeff alluded, my car is street driven. That said, I still want the highest quality parts, capable of handling extreme 'abuse' while maintaining exacting tolerances. Which takes me to my suspension choices to date. Since I'm no fan of wheel hop, I started researching LCA's, looking for the strength first and added weight second. And since I've had a lot of experience with Maximum on other Mustangs, the decision was easy.

 

A few months ago Maximum came out with their 'Extreme Duty' LCA for '05 and later Mustangs. It is the strongest rated arm on the market. And while you could argue that steel adds weight over an aluminum arm here, you won't see an aluminum arm that even approaches steel in terms of ultimate strength.

 

Here is MM's chart showing what these arms can take...

 

Some don't like heim joints, as used in this arm, and make quick mention of noise. My experience with MM has been that they use the highest quality joints out there. This is key, as many companies get by with cheaper joints that won't last or have such sloppy tolerances that they make noise from the start. You get what you pay for.

 

In addition, rod ends are as easy to change as a urethane bushing (albeit more expensive). I haven't had to change a heim on either of my other Mustangs yet (both run much of what MM sells) and have a drawer full of rod ends to replace them with if any get noisy. Keep in mind, whether you choose urethane or a rod end, you should inspect any modifications you make regularly. Makes it far easier to identify any issues you may run into further down the road.

 

I'll move on to the UCA, as LCA discussions quickly become passionate and never ending.

 

Upper arm choices are as vast as are lower arm. My opinion regarding urethane sticks here as well. Search for a failed bushing in an upper arm and you'll see plenty. And while the thinking that the bushing needs to be stiffer (higher durometer) to reduce wind up, the reality is that urethane is once again a poor compromise. A rod ended joint here (which typically infers adjustability) will absolutely work in your favor in terms of accuracy and feedback. Trouble is, in the case of the UCA, it is a double edged sword. NVH transmission through the cabin is commensurate with a steel joint in this case. Some don't mind the noise. Others can't stand it. Again, it all depends on your priorities.

 

I took the low road here. No rod end and no urethane. Instead, I chose Roush's 'Wheel Hop Reduction Kit' which is essentially an OEM like UCA bracket and arm with revised geometry - and a factory rubber joint. Not the bulbous, cushy one that the factory installs in this location. Instead, Roush uses the much stiffer (and smaller) bushing that is pressed into the ear above the ring gear. I was skeptical of the arm at first, simply because I wanted more information from them. I tried it because there were a few others out there that had good things to say about it. And they were right. It works.

 

Because the location of the UCA puts it in a spot somewhat out of reach, I wanted to put it in and forget about it (as a matter of speaking). This is not a spot that I'd enjoy making regular adjustments or changes. Subjective opinion, yes, but a bit of a reality. The Roush arm requires no lube and is not adjustable. If you have made considerable changes in ride height and/or desire the utmost in pinion angle accuracy, you may want to consider a different arm than this one. In my case, it fulfills the obligation admirably.

 

If you are like me and always need to see more, take a look at the following thread. I tried to explain it as well as I could. If you have any questions, by all means, feel free to ask.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/shelb...-roush-uca.html

 

Tob

 

On edit...Feedback. I couldn't be happier with the choices I have made. Zero additional NVH and a much more precise feel. Note that I also added MM's panhard bar as well, which no doubt contributes to this.

[GT500Tow]

You don't need heims joints on your street car. Just call anyone of our S.V.'s and they will tell you the best way to go. Don't listen to BS on here. Or you'll be sorry.

[clark17357]

You don't need heims joints on your street car. Just call anyone of our S.V.'s and they will tell you the best way to go. Don't listen to BS on here. Or you'll be sorry.

Can you identify what you see as BS, given there is a lot of information already in this thread? I suspect most would agree that heim joints are not street friendly for the average driver while they are the correct choice if you are trying to get it done a a road course. But if you have information that shows that certain responses have incorrect or bad information, please share it so we have as complete a debate as possible. Thanks in advance.

 

jim

[GT500Tow]

Can you identify what you see as BS, given there is a lot of information already in this thread? I suspect most would agree that heim joints are not street friendly for the average driver while they are the correct choice if you are trying to get it done a a road course. But if you have information that shows that certain responses have incorrect or bad information, please share it so we have as complete a debate as possible. Thanks in advance.

 

jim

If anyone tells you that heim joints don't increase NHV. Is just out right BS. Good for racing, sucks for a street car. So why would you recommend them for someone that will only race every once in a while ?

[clark17357]

If anyone tells you that heim joints don't increase NHV. Is just out right BS. Good for racing, sucks for a street car. So why would you recommend them for someone that will only race every once in a while ?

If you are speaking to Tob's post, I don't read it as saying heim joints are not noisier than stock. I read the post as saying that you can control the amount of NHV by using the highest quality heim joints out there. I did not include Tob in the category of average street car driver because, the way I read his post, he may roll primarily on the street but he pushes his car to track like conditions and, when he does, he wants performance first and foremost. I think you are both saying the saying the same things about the heim joints and it is probably just semantics separating the two of you.

 

Jim

[GT500Tow]

There's many disavantages of using heims or urathane bushings over the stock rubber bushings. The most obvious benefit of using rubber bushings is immediately noticeable inside the vehicle. Unlike denser materials, rubber bushings do an extremely effective job of isolating noise and vibration that would otherwise resonate into the vehicle cabin. Almost anyone who has replaced the factory suspension arms with aftermarket components can likely recall the immediate effect from the driver's seat.

 

Another important advantage of using rubber bushings involves their impact on the related mounting brackets. Although rarely mentioned, firm polyurethane bushings and rigid control arms can actually tear the factory mounting brackets away from the chassis or axle when exposed to severe conditions. On the other hand, high-quality rubber bushings are able to absorb damaging impacts and lateral forces instead of resisting them. Needless to say, a broken control arm bracket or aftermarket axle brackets on the race track is not a situation you want to experience firsthand.

 

Here's what im getting at. Stock LCA's will handle just about anything you can put down. UCA needs to be up graded. End of story.

[Tom Robinson]

More interesting info. I have mostly steeda suspension components w/o heim joints. I'm currently debating on whether I should switch to griggs. I'm not a racer by any means but do like to have the feeling of total control when challenging the canyon roads. On the flip side I don't want to much NVH if I can help it.

There's so much hype on griggs suspension but it has heim joints which I've read causes more NVH. Is it tolerable when cruising with the old lady? Or should I just stick with what I have?

 

Thanks

[Tob]

My wife never knew I had made any suspension changes until she saw me uploading photos and she had ridden with me a few times.

 

When you say 'Griggs' you have to realize there is quite a bit at play. Griggs offers LCA's in a number of different combinations, each designed for a different 'application' if you will. If I were you, I'd talk to them about what might best suit your needs. In fact, try Van, he'll set you straight.

 

Griggs also offers panhard bar upgrades as well as a switch to a Watts link.

 

Ultimately, considering 'Griggs' means taking a serious look at their torque arm offering. Griggs has come a long way here and their latest arm is improved over those used previously, dating back to their Fox/SN95/New Edge offerings. The largest improvement in my opinion is their front bushing. They use a captured rubber bushing (I believe it to be a factory Ford part, but used for something else) within a steel sleeve which is then pressed into the machined circular ring that has been welded to the nose of the arm. Much safer than their previous bushing design, it should also prove to last much longer, as well as contributing a minimum of added NVH into the cabin.

 

Then there's their front suspension...

 

If I were you, I'd start with two primary concerns. How much money do you plan on spending and how much comfort are you willing to give up? And remember, if you won't be doing the install work, the cost goes up considerably.

 

Tob

[Secondo]

... Here's what im getting at. Stock LCA's will handle just about anything you can put down. UCA needs to be up graded. End of story.

+1

 

For street, occasional race and just want to get rid of the wheelhop- replacing the UCA or even just the UCA bushing will accomplish that goal.

[bonefish]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! Sorry if I sparked some spirited opinions. I think it is good to debate but, hope no one is mad at this point.

 

I believe I will do springs and panhard bar then follow up with UCA and LCA. Adjustable for the ability to change but, probably bushing type instead of hemi for noise part. I do not plan to hit the strip alot just motor out on the highway and the occasional run through the gears. I just want to be safe and protect.

 

Thanks again!

[Light66]

......Stock LCA's will handle just about anything you can put down. UCA needs to be up graded. End of story.

 

Totally agree. Just had a great real world example. Some guy was driving 30 mph in a 75 mph zone. Had to slow right down on a 4 lane hwy, dropped her down into 2nd with stock gears and tires, nailed it up to the read line, and the car did what it was suppose to, hunker down and accelerate past the 30 mph driver to merge with the 80 mph traffic in an instant. No wheel hop, especially with cooler evening temps around 45F.

[2kgt281]

Good info and opinions.

I went with J&M, adj upper, lowers, adj panhard, Metco upper bracket, camber plates up front with springs and D-specs. Did the suspension before power mods, was satisfied with the overall feel, just a tad of added NVH. Then I upgraded to Stage2, and once again the suspension left a lot to be desired, mainly the rear, still too floaty under power in anything but a straight line, but I love the twisties and there's some great canyons around here. I will eventually add more power but not untill I sort out the rear, my current power can't be fully exploited with my current setup. So that has me looking at Griggs, starting with the torque arm then coilovers and then the Watts. Now, I plan on keeping this car for a long time, and one of my concerns is something someone else touched on is long term effect of the Heims being used in the Griggs LCA on the LCA attachment point to the chassis, since there is no rubber or urithane there anymore, that's a lot of energy being transfered to the bracket and chassis, will this have any long term effects? Also, when going to coilovers in the rear, are the shock towers stout enough to support the entire rear instead of being spread between the shock tower and spring? I know the rear of these cars don't have much weight but just trying to consider all things before making the investment and diving down the Griggs rabbit hole! I'm probably just being paranoid! I just want a properly handling car without too much added NVH that will last a long time.

So what I'm saying to the OP is first know your goal for your car before you decide and don't cut corners so you don't have to rethink and re-do and spend more money and find yourself in my position!

Good luck with your upgrades!!!

[clark17357]

Here's what im getting at. Stock LCA's will handle just about anything you can put down. UCA needs to be up graded. End of story.

If that is the end of the story for you and ending the story that way meets your performance needs, life is good. It is one of those things that comes down to the individual driver and his or her car in terms of what he or she puts their car through and what you want it to do from a performance standpoint. It is all good.

 

Jim

[sprint200]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! Sorry if I sparked some spirited opinions. I think it is good to debate but, hope no one is mad at this point.

 

I believe I will do springs and panhard bar then follow up with UCA and LCA. Adjustable for the ability to change but, probably bushing type instead of hemi for noise part. I do not plan to hit the strip alot just motor out on the highway and the occasional run through the gears. I just want to be safe and protect.

 

Thanks again!

 

If it were me, the UCA would be included in the first round of mod's! It represents the single most glaring failure of the stock suspension on these cars. And I would now choose the Roush piece if I did not like the Griggs torque arm so much. Actually I did install a Steeda UCA on mine prior to the Griggs stuff, and it "clunked" on every shift or acceleration/deceleration.

 

 

Good info and opinions.

I went with J&M, adj upper, lowers, adj panhard, Metco upper bracket, camber plates up front with springs and D-specs. Did the suspension before power mods, was satisfied with the overall feel, just a tad of added NVH. Then I upgraded to Stage2, and once again the suspension left a lot to be desired, mainly the rear, still too floaty under power in anything but a straight line, but I love the twisties and there's some great canyons around here. I will eventually add more power but not untill I sort out the rear, my current power can't be fully exploited with my current setup. So that has me looking at Griggs, starting with the torque arm then coilovers and then the Watts. Now, I plan on keeping this car for a long time, and one of my concerns is something someone else touched on is long term effect of the Heims being used in the Griggs LCA on the LCA attachment point to the chassis, since there is no rubber or urithane there anymore, that's a lot of energy being transfered to the bracket and chassis, will this have any long term effects? Also, when going to coilovers in the rear, are the shock towers stout enough to support the entire rear instead of being spread between the shock tower and spring? I know the rear of these cars don't have much weight but just trying to consider all things before making the investment and diving down the Griggs rabbit hole! I'm probably just being paranoid! I just want a properly handling car without too much added NVH that will last a long time.

So what I'm saying to the OP is first know your goal for your car before you decide and don't cut corners so you don't have to rethink and re-do and spend more money and find yourself in my position!

Good luck with your upgrades!!!

The Griggs LCA's are available with bushings; you don't have to use the heim joints.

 

FWIW, however, my car has shown no visible stress at those points after 3 years of VERY HARD driving. It is inspected before and after each track day. Jay, out in SF Bay area (WP64) and Van have both abused their cars as much or more than I on the track for at least 2 years. I have not heard either of them mention anything regarding your concerns.

 

If NVH is your biggest concern, stick with the Griggs panhard bar. The majority of NVH increase is due to the watts link (even the "quiet" version....it's just not as noisy as the "race" version). The noise doesn't bother me personally; and it's only there when driving at parking lot speeds over uneven pavement that I have noticed.

[Tob]

I suppose that the best way to put it is that whatever your parts combination may ultimately be, balance is the key. Without a doubt, the UCA is the major contributor to the issue that is, wheel hop. The factory bushing has about the same durometer as Oprah's ass. This is where you have to think hard about how far you'd like to take it and how much you are willing to pay to get there. Eliminating it all together and replacing it with a torque arm is a desirable move if road 'hugging' enhances your repertoire. After that, you're probably looking at an adjustable steel joint, followed by high durometer rubber or urethane, respective of accuracy in that very order.

 

It would seem that the most direct pathway for NVH harmonics to be transferred into the cabin is through this interface. Gear noise increase is the resultant effect of a steel-bushed joint here. So the balance becomes using a 'stiffer' joint that still allows for proper axle articulation while minimizing wind-up and still maintaining a long, healthy life. The Roush upper seems to fit that balance quite well.

 

As mentioned, you could probably get by without ever touching the lower arms. That doesn't mean that you'll be getting the most this chassis has to offer, however. Reducing or eliminating fore/aft movement here is never a bad idea. Getting away from the factory bushings can allow for much more precise axle control if deflection can be controlled or stopped. I don't think you'll find an alternative that allows for better articulation while also eliminating deflection than that of a rod end type joint. The issue at that point (as some are quick to claim) is that of increased noise. As I said previously, I use rod ends here and they add no noise. If you have a few moments, I uploaded a clip to YouTube that shows my arms in action. Filmed in HD, but converting mpeg4 to mpeg so I could cut the clip in Movie Maker, reduced quality. Then YouTube takes clarity out of it as well...anyway, here's a quick ride with the camera attached directly to the rod ended panhard bar I run. Note the noise at the end is the stones under the tires. You'll hear it from within the cabin at the beginning of the next clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruy0XTQDeMY&fmt=22

 

I then removed the camera and placed it under my rear window via a suction cup and went for a quick, sleepy ride here too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDyYM1EcDJA

 

Too bad the weather has taken a turn for the worse here in Upstate, NY. I may not get the chance to shoot from other angles, in higher resolution, with some real editing software. Sorry, but the two clips are extremely clear when viewed raw as mpeg4 files via a VLC player or plugged in directly to my HD TV. The upshot - the heims aren't the noise makers many will have you believe.

 

Tob

[breoland]

I suppose that the best way to put it is that whatever your parts combination may ultimately be, balance is the key. Without a doubt, the UCA is the major contributor to the issue that is, wheel hop. The factory bushing has about the same durometer as Oprah's ass. This is where you have to think hard about how far you'd like to take it and how much you are willing to pay to get there. Eliminating it all together and replacing it with a torque arm is a desirable move if road 'hugging' enhances your repertoire. After that, you're probably looking at an adjustable steel joint, followed by high durometer rubber or urethane, respective of accuracy in that very order.

 

It would seem that the most direct pathway for NVH harmonics to be transferred into the cabin is through this interface. Gear noise increase is the resultant effect of a steel-bushed joint here. So the balance becomes using a 'stiffer' joint that still allows for proper axle articulation while minimizing wind-up and still maintaining a long, healthy life. The Roush upper seems to fit that balance quite well.

 

As mentioned, you could probably get by without ever touching the lower arms. That doesn't mean that you'll be getting the most this chassis has to offer, however. Reducing or eliminating fore/aft movement here is never a bad idea. Getting away from the factory bushings can allow for much more precise axle control if deflection can be controlled or stopped. I don't think you'll find an alternative that allows for better articulation while also eliminating deflection than that of a rod end type joint. The issue at that point (as some are quick to claim) is that of increased noise. As I said previously, I use rod ends here and they add no noise. If you have a few moments, I uploaded a clip to YouTube that shows my arms in action. Filmed in HD, but converting mpeg4 to mpeg so I could cut the clip in Movie Maker, reduced quality. Then YouTube takes clarity out of it as well...anyway, here's a quick ride with the camera attached directly to the rod ended panhard bar I run. Note the noise at the end is the stones under the tires. You'll hear it from within the cabin at the beginning of the next clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruy0XTQDeMY&fmt=22

 

I then removed the camera and placed it under my rear window via a suction cup and went for a quick, sleepy ride here too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDyYM1EcDJA

 

Too bad the weather has taken a turn for the worse here in Upstate, NY. I may not get the chance to shoot from other angles, in higher resolution, with some real editing software. Sorry, but the two clips are extremely clear when viewed raw as mpeg4 files via a VLC player or plugged in directly to my HD TV. The upshot - the heims aren't the noise makers many will have you believe.

 

Tob

 

 

nice work. i can not decied if i want the hiem joints or sphericals that shelby is planning on coming out with in mid december

after your vids, im leaning twards the hiem

 

what do you use for an upper?

[Tob]

http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=772

 

In case you missed it, I reviewed it here.

 

Tob