kahmann Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 ^With a single pass intercooler, you can certainly flow a lot more water. We all have dual pass intercoolers, however. Like he said in that post, even with a 55 GPM pump, the intercooler is so much of a restriction that you can't ever flow that much water through. He says it with the intention of pointing out that you can't flow the water so fast (like anywhere near 55 GPM) that the heat isn't transfered properly. But his point also illustrates what I was saying earlier. You can throw a 500 GPM pump at it, but you're not going to flow 500 GPM. The intercooler won't allow it, just as the intercooler won't allow you to flow anywhere near 55 GPM. Without knowing what the flow rate of the system is, knowing what the flow rate with the stock pump installed actually is, and knowing what the actual flow rate with the 55 GPM pump installed is, this is all speculation on this guy's part. Nothing in any of the intercooler pump threads I've ever read online has any real data. It's all 'well the CJ crew did it, so it must work' or 'random aftermarket pump manufacturer salesman says it's got to help'. No system design rates and no actual flow rates being measured, from what I've ever seen. The water into steam remark was pretty interesting, however. But they were dealing with 275*+ IAT's - totally astronomical. These guys are working with 8-9 second passes down a drag strip though, so it's a whole different world I guess. Anyway, I'd love to see at least some real side by side comparisons of IAT's dropping with just a bigger intercooler pump. But just as importantly, I'd like to see some real live flow rates before and after the pumps are increased in size by literally 10 times (and without removing any of the system restrictions). Keep me posted on how your IAT's look for sure man. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Good stuff Ken. I think it is interesting seeing different thoughts on the heat soak problem. It would be interesting to see real data for sure, although I am not sure if the manufactures would be willing to release their IAT data. Most enthusiast opt for a larger coolant tank, HE or an HE with fans to deal with heat soak and this is the first I have read about cirulating the water faster to help the cooling. I also find it interesting that Saleen has an upgraded pump with their bigger H/E so I will have to follow up with their tech department on the "upgraded" pumps flow rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Here's the answer I got out of Whipple.. Still no flow rating. 'There is no need to upgrade the water pump for the intercooler system. The one supplied is the same one used on the 03-04 Cobra, 99-04 Lightning and 07-11 GT500 and up over 800RWHP. If you go to one that has a higher flow rate, you might get hotter intercooler temps as the water will not have enough time in the heat exchanger to cool down so you will just keep pumping hot water. -- Mike Malicoat Whipple Superchargers' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Mike knows his shit from what I can tell dealing with him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Mike knows his shit from what I can tell dealing with him.... Interesting, I know someone on this forum has to know the crew that did the work on the CJ and maybe they can chime in, on what they saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Got these in the mail today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slbgtsc Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Got these in the mail today very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Got these in the mail today Please correct me if I wrong here. I did a little research on another forum and googled them too and they say one would see very little, if any, added HP to any lightly modded engine or stock engine on the GT Mustang. Can I ask where your research was found that said you would get more power added under most conditions? I did not find it at the Ford sight, maybe I was looking in wrong place Thanks- Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Please correct me if I wrong here. I did a little research on another forum and googled them too and they say one would see very little, if any, added HP to any lightly modded engine or stock engine on the GT Mustang. Can I ask where your research was found that said you would get more power added under most conditions? I did not find it at the Ford sight, maybe I was looking in wrong place Thanks- Dave I don't think Ken's engine fits in either of those categories.... did i miss a post about adding power on other motors? I've heard cops don't help "normal" engines too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I don't think Ken's engine fits in either of those categories.... did i miss a post about adding power on other motors? I've heard cops don't help "normal" engines too... Yes I 100% agree, this does not really mean much to Ken's total build at all. However for mostly stock, lightly modded or full blown builds will this promote extra HP? If so how does it do it? If you don't ask questions how else will you learn? I also know Ken's engine is a dream for 99% of us! EDITED: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 ^No sweat Swede. As for a stock motor, this is about the last mod I'd recommend, unless a guy just wants to dress his engine bay up and really likes the look of them. Otherwise, there will be zero gains from the install. Once you get into forced induction or NOS, however, you can benefit from having a much hotter spark. The increased voltage allows you to run a much wider plug gap, which means a more complete combustion, without a blown out flame. This is how any extra power is produced. The hotter combustion should also help with throttle response/tip-in, something I've been fighting with ever since I upped the boost to nearly 20 psi. There is a ton of misinformation about coil on plug's for our cars all over the net. But a basic understanding of how plug gap affects your power output under boost will help you make sense of most of it. http://www.s197.com/forum/showpost.php?p=682964&postcount=35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueone Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 ^No sweat Swede. As for a stock motor, this is about the last mod I'd recommend, unless a guy just wants to dress his engine bay up and really likes the look of them. Otherwise, there will be zero gains from the install. Once you get into forced induction or NOS, however, you can benefit from having a much hotter spark. The increased voltage allows you to run a much wider plug gap, which means a more complete combustion, without a blown out flame. This is how any extra power is produced. The hotter combustion should also help with throttle response/tip-in, something I've been fighting with ever since I upped the boost to nearly 20 psi. There is a ton of misinformation about coil on plug's for our cars all over the net. But a basic understanding of how plug gap affects your power output under boost will help you make sense of most of it. http://www.s197.com/forum/showpost.php?p=682964&postcount=35 http://www.evoperform.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_52&products_id=105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 ^No sweat Swede. As for a stock motor, this is about the last mod I'd recommend, unless a guy just wants to dress his engine bay up and really likes the look of them. Otherwise, there will be zero gains from the install. Once you get into forced induction or NOS, however, you can benefit from having a much hotter spark. The increased voltage allows you to run a much wider plug gap, which means a more complete combustion, without a blown out flame. This is how any extra power is produced. The hotter combustion should also help with throttle response/tip-in, something I've been fighting with ever since I upped the boost to nearly 20 psi. There is a ton of misinformation about coil on plug's for our cars all over the net. But a basic understanding of how plug gap affects your power output under boost will help you make sense of most of it. http://www.s197.com/forum/showpost.php?p=682964&postcount=35 I appreciate the thorough answer, it is good to know these things as one moves forward with going faster. Thanks Ken and I am trying to follow your build, it sounds absolutely 100% hair raising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDEMAN Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.evoperform.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_52&products_id=105 Good thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 http://www.evoperfor...products_id=105 I've seen these, but haven't used them. Do you have one installed, Jeff? How does it stack up in your opinion? I appreciate the thorough answer, it is good to know these things as one moves forward with going faster. Thanks Ken and I am trying to follow your build, it sounds absolutely 100% hair raising! Anytime bud, glad to help out. Good luck with your GT/SC conversion, by the way. You're in for a hell of a hair raising experience of your own, once that bad boy is back on the road! I got the COP's installed tonight. Photos below... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I also got around to re-installing my oil catch can/breather tank. I had to take it out when I got the Whipple, because I wanted to use the old battery box space for the Moroso intercooler tank. The problem with running a breather mounted directly on top of the passenger side cam cover is that a TON of oil pours out of it when you get into boost at all. The driver's side stays clean as a whistle, so the breather can stay on that cam cover. I just now got around to pulling the front bumper cover off to get at the heat-ex swap. Since I've got no more room under the hood for the breather tank, I decided to mount it off the frame behind the bumper support. You'll see in the pics below that I've got a hose running from the passenger cam cover down to the breather (the other holes in the pics were drilled for my old Shelby fog lights, by the way). Anyway, now I can work on the heat-ex swap. Paul, I'll get comparison pics up asap of the 2 heat exchangers side by side. Other than that, I've got the car up on jacks, after sending my SVT rims out for powder coating last week. While it's up in the air, I'll spend the rest of my time scrubbing and cleaning the fender wells and under body, detailing the engine bay, and painting the rear calipers to match my red painted Brembos. I'm also thinking long and hard about tackling the rear end, a la Alex's 'rusty butt spa treatment'. I can't stand looking at that rusty thing every time I'm under the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueone Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I've seen these, but haven't used them. Do you have one installed, Jeff? How does it stack up in your opinion? I had one installed but I have since removed it in a misguided attempt to solve a plug problem. My car was busting the ceramic insulator cleanly off my HTO's at WOT and I would find them sitting on the strap on the bottom of the plug, turns out that it was the cats that were the problem, they both failed and came loose,acting as corks under boost causing excessive cylinder pressure which came within a hair on a rat's ass from costing me another motor. I don't have a good answer on how it stacks up since all this was going on at the same time I installed it . I'm running HTO's at .035 on new stock cops without any issues now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I also got around to re-installing my oil catch can/breather tank. I had to take it out when I got the Whipple, because I wanted to use the old battery box space for the Moroso intercooler tank. The problem with running a breather mounted directly on top of the passenger side cam cover is that a TON of oil pours out of it when you get into boost at all. The driver's side stays clean as a whistle, so the breather can stay on that cam cover. I just now got around to pulling the front bumper cover off to get at the heat-ex swap. Since I've got no more room under the hood for the breather tank, I decided to mount it off the frame behind the bumper support. You'll see in the pics below that I've got a hose running from the passenger cam cover down to the breather (the other holes in the pics were drilled for my old Shelby fog lights, by the way). Anyway, now I can work on the heat-ex swap. Paul, I'll get comparison pics up asap of the 2 heat exchangers side by side. Other than that, I've got the car up on jacks, after sending my SVT rims out for powder coating last week. While it's up in the air, I'll spend the rest of my time scrubbing and cleaning the fender wells and under body, detailing the engine bay, and painting the rear calipers to match my red painted Brembos. I'm also thinking long and hard about tackling the rear end, a la Alex's 'rusty butt spa treatment'. I can't stand looking at that rusty thing every time I'm under the car! thanks Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I got around to swapping my heat-exchangers and measuring them up side by side. Here's what I came up with. Width: Stock - 1 1/2" C&R - 1 7/8" Height: Stock - 10" C&R - 10" Length: (outside to outside) Stock - 23 3/4" C&R - 26 1/4" Length: (core only) Stock - 21 1/8" C&R - 25" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Outside to outside Core only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Here are a couple of install shots. I still have to wire up the fans and relays. So the C&R is certainly bigger than the stock unit, by not by a huge margin. It's definitely about as wide as it can be and still be able to fit behind the bumper. It could have been a bit taller I'm sure, but maybe they didn't want to block that much of the condenser and radiator coils? I do know that I'm awfully impressed by the craftsmanship of this new heat-ex. The welds are immaculate, the finish is beautiful, and all of the materials appear to be top notch stuff. There are two selling points of this heat-ex over stock - 1) it's got 2 big SPAL fans mounted on it obviously, to help draw a large amount of air across the fins and, 2) it's a dual pass design, as opposed to the single pass stock design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 thank you Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 ^Sure thing bud, I hope it helped. On a side note, I took my freshly powder coated, previously widened SVT rims into Schwab to get the 305/35 RA1's re-mounted. I left the TPMS crap off this time around, since they never seem to work right anyway. I have to run by my storage unit in the morning to grab a fresh pair of 275/35 RA1's for the fronts, since the pair I had dismounted were shot all to hell. Anyway, here's how the bruiser is looking tonight. I gotta track down my old SVT black center caps, since the silver Ford Racing caps don't look right on the black rims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dans07SGT Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ken, your car gets more amazing by the minute!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcarl1 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ken when are we going to the track? SAAC April 2-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ken, your car gets more amazing by the minute!!! Thanks Dan, I've been pretty busy with it since I saw you last! Are you planning on the Spring Sprint this year? Ken when are we going to the track? SAAC April 2-3 Yeah buddy I'm definitely going. It feels like forever since I was at Thunderhill last. I'll drop you a line this afternoon to talk about it. I'm also curious to find out how your new tune went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 My brother Shelby just upped the ante by bringing this home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 I'm signed up for a tune day at AED on April 2nd. There's a guy from Florida flying in named Tony that has a great reputation in local circles. I can't remember his shop name or his last name off hand, but I'll find out before then and post a link. Apparently there will be a few Ford GT's, a pile of Cobras, and a handful of 3V's there to get tuned by the guy. Anyway, I'm excited to be able to get back on the dyno, so I can see what affect my cooling mods have made. My build left a ton of power on the table last time out, due to the ultra high IAT's. I've got a few small things to wrap up in the next couple weeks, but I'll definitely be ready for it. I'll post an update with pics and video, once it's done. Unfortunately, I'll miss half of the SAAC Spring Sprint at Thunderhill for it, but it's no fun racing with 13* of timing anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I'm signed up for a tune day at AED on April 2nd. There's a guy from Florida flying in named Tony that has a great reputation in local circles. I can't remember his shop name or his last name off hand, but I'll find out before then and post a link. Apparently there will be a few Ford GT's, a pile of Cobras, and a handful of 3V's there to get tuned by the guy. Anyway, I'm excited to be able to get back on the dyno, so I can see what affect my cooling mods have made. My build left a ton of power on the table last time out, due to the ultra high IAT's. I've got a few small things to wrap up in the next couple weeks, but I'll definitely be ready for it. I'll post an update with pics and video, once it's done. Unfortunately, I'll miss half of the SAAC Spring Sprint at Thunderhill for it, but it's no fun racing with 13* of timing anyway! Ken, how did you make out? did the C&R HE help? We finished the inlet/TB set up, picking it up today. We got 662rwhp on the 4.6 3v Aluminator with 93 pump, way more then I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmn444 Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Ken, how did you make out? did the C&R HE help? We finished the inlet/TB set up, picking it up today. We got 662rwhp on the 4.6 3v Aluminator with 93 pump, way more then I was looking for. wow, nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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