MMR forged 5.0 stroker build

[svttim]

Ken Ken Ken! :rolleyes:

[kahmann]

Is car caged yet? don't make momma mad!

Not yet man. I haven't committed to losing the back seat. I've had a Griggs roll bar in storage for more than a year, but it's got a cross brace that would make the back seat non-functional. My 3 year old loves this thing more than I do and it would break her heart.

I need to look for something with a rear cross brace that will bolt in and out I guess.

 

I think "necessary" went out the window a LONG time ago.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

Ken Ken Ken! :rolleyes:

I learned all this from watching you!

 

 

EDIT: On a side note, I just finished up installing a set of real mufflers for the first time in a long time. I went with the Magnaflow 16793's. I found them on eBay new for a great price: http://cgi.ebay.com/...#ht_1057wt_1165

 

I loved the way my SGT sounded with the deletes on the track, but it was getting way too annoying on the street. I would literally kill the car whenever my radar detector went off on the highway LOL.. And the drone after about 20 minutes was brain numbing. I took her for a test cruise through the mountains around my house a bit ago and I'm really happy with the way it sounds now. I'll get a clip up in a day or 2.

 

The 3.90's were due to get installed tomorrow morning, but I'll have to reschedule because of a meeting I forgot about. Verdict still pending on that gear swap...

[GT500-07]

getting closer Ken

http://www.s197.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53603

[kahmann]

^I can't see the pics on that thread (I'm at work). Can you post them here?

[andrewnagle1964]

^I can't see the pics on that thread (I'm at work). Can you post them here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kahmann]

^Thanks Andrew - man that piece is ridiculously badass! I need one of these yesterday.

[GT500-07]

^Thanks Andrew - man that piece is ridiculously badass! I need one of these yesterday.

 

 

I hope they have it ready for testing by the end of this week

[kahmann]

^Ship it overnight man and I'll get it tested before Wednesday and let you know how it performs. No need to thank me, it's just the kind of guy I am.

[kahmann]

^That was a joke by the way.

 

Here's a quick clip of how my new mufflers sound:

 

[kahmann]

Who's with me?

http://www.281motorsports.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=20&products_id=2564

[GT500-07]

Who's with me?

http://www.281motorsports.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=20&products_id=2564

 

 

 

[jmn444]

Sweet seats!

[GT500-07]

hope to test it out Saturday, waiting on the L&M 72mmTB

 

[clark17357]

Ken,

 

I am very interested in these seats. I'm in.

 

Jim

[GT500-07]

Ken,

 

I am very interested in these seats. I'm in.

 

Jim

 

 

check out this thread

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php?/topic/63065-leather-recaro-sport-seats-waccent-stripes/

[kahmann]

hope to test it out Saturday, waiting on the L&M 72mmTB

 

 

Keep me posted man, I'm really anxious to find out how well it works!

 

Ken,

 

I am very interested in these seats. I'm in.

 

Jim

 

Keep an eye on that 281 link or the FRPP main page. I hope they're made available before the track season gets underway. Although with the 1/2 foot of snow in my driveway, I'm thinking I've got some time to work with! LOL

 

On a side note, here are some pics of the new C&R/Shelby heat exchanger that finally arrived. Thanks again to Van at Revan Racing for the smokin deal!

 

[kahmann]

Next, some pics I took tonight of how the Bruiser looks before it's top secret make over.

 

After that, a quick pic of my new brake parts. Baer rotors to replace my stock Brembos and Hawk HPS pads to replace the complete CRAP Brembo pads.

 

[kahmann]

Finally, a couple of pics of the result of taking a long lunch break today at work. After I hung this broom rack up in my garage, I didn't like the big empty space it left on the wall. So I found this huge drawing on Whipple's site of my W140AX blower and thought it would look cool laminated and hanging in that bare spot.

 

[GT500-07]

Ken, have you seen this?

 

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php/170526-Light-weight-F-amp-R-rotors-07-11-GT500

[slbgtsc]

Finally, a couple of pics of the result of taking a long lunch break today at work. After I hung this broom rack up in my garage, I didn't like the big empty space it left on the wall. So I found this huge drawing on Whipple's site of my W140AX blower and thought it would look cool laminated and hanging in that bare spot.

 

 

 

Ken,

 

Love the hood vents, how tough was the install and could I bother you for some underhood pictures?

[kahmann]

^The install was a serious pain in the ass, since the vents are for a Super Snake hood, not OEM GT hood.

It took me a few tries to get them to sit flush and I tried 3 or 4 mounting solutions before settling on what's in there now. I'll get some pics up asap.

 

 

[SWEDEMAN]

OMG Mon....................will it ever stop? Wow!

 

EDITED:

[clark17357]

On a side note, here are some pics of the new C&R/Shelby heat exchanger that finally arrived. Thanks again to Van at Revan Racing for the smokin deal!

 

 

Ken,

 

Have you contemplated the full on Shelby/Revan Racing cooling set up? I took the plunge and did it. It took some work to get the entire package to fit and function in an SGT (mostly little stuff and Van was a great help in getting over those little bumps). When it was apart, I had the heat exchanger pump that came with my KB swapped out for the GT500 unit. The KB pump was doing fine but the GT500 pump was of a higher capacity and I figured, what the heck? I ran the car all day at 95 degree ambient last October and could not have been happier.

 

Jim

[GT500-07]

Ken, can you post some pictures of the Whipple HE next to the C&R HE? I'm still debating if I should spend the extra $$$ on the C&R or go with a KC set up.

 

http://www.killerchiller.com/system_1_page.htm

[GT500-07]

Ken, you might want to look at this while you have it apart,

 

http://store.jpcracing.com/2005-2009-Chromoly-Lightweight-Front-Bumper-Support_p_1517.html

[slbgtsc]

Ken, you might want to look at this while you have it apart,

 

http://store.jpcracing.com/2005-2009-Chromoly-Lightweight-Front-Bumper-Support_p_1517.html

 

Ken not trying to jack your thread here. This is a good link on inlet temps on Saleen SC'd cars. I am going to go with a larger fluidyne H/E and put better pump on. If the stock pumps are only going to push 5-8 gpm then upgrading to a 33-55gpm pump seems to make more sense. Get more water through the system.My link

[kahmann]

OMG Mon....................will it ever stop? Wow!

 

EDITED:

 

As long as it's in my garage, I'll be modding the hell out of it.

 

Ken,

 

Have you contemplated the full on Shelby/Revan Racing cooling set up? I took the plunge and did it. It took some work to get the entire package to fit and function in an SGT (mostly little stuff and Van was a great help in getting over those little bumps). When it was apart, I had the heat exchanger pump that came with my KB swapped out for the GT500 unit. The KB pump was doing fine but the GT500 pump was of a higher capacity and I figured, what the heck? I ran the car all day at 95 degree ambient last October and could not have been happier.

 

Jim

 

I've had the C&R/Shelby radiator for about a year already. I had to do some metal grinding on the upper radiator support to get it to fit with my old Paxton installed, but otherwise it was a simple install. It broke a weld right before the Vegas Bash, but C&R took great care of me by getting a replacement out in time, even outside of warranty. I've got Moroso aluminum fluid tanks also, so I think I'm pretty well good to go.

 

I've had this 55GPM EMP/Stewart electric pump on the shelf for a few months. My original intention, however, was to install it on the jacket water, so that I could keep water circulating through the engine, even after I shut it down at the track. I need to do some research into the flow rates of the Whipple intercooler system, before I decide whether a different pump would be beneficial there though. Bigger isn't always better when dealing with heat exchange. Thanks for the heads up though, I appreciate it.

http://www.summitrac...arts/EMP-E558AR

 

 

Ken, can you post some pictures of the Whipple HE next to the C&R HE? I'm still debating if I should spend the extra $ on the C&R or go with a KC set up.

 

http://www.killerchi...stem_1_page.htm

 

Sure thing Paul, I'll get some pics up asap.

 

Ken, you might want to look at this while you have it apart,

 

http://store.jpcraci...ort_p_1517.html

 

This looks like it would be a great weight saver, but I need my OEM support for my FRPP tow hook.

 

Ken not trying to jack your thread here. This is a good link on inlet temps on Saleen SC'd cars. I am going to go with a larger fluidyne H/E and put better pump on. If the stock pumps are only going to push 5-8 gpm then upgrading to a 33-55gpm pump seems to make more sense. Get more water through the system.My link

 

First off, don't ever worry about hijacking this thread. It's a running cluster of anything and everything, so feel free to post anything you want honestly.

My only concern with running a bigger pump is that the water might not have enough time to transfer as much heat as it should. And if oversized too much, you could actually experience higher IAT's than with the stock pump. In the power plant I direct, I've got dozens of heat exchangers in operation 24/7 (tube bundles, plate/frame, engine exhaust to close loop water, intercooler/jacket water radiators for turbocharged natural gas engines, cooling towers, etc). The slower their pumps turn, the more heat gets exchanged (to a point obviously). The pumps are sized according to the flow rate of each system and the desired amount of BTU's to be transferred. Like I said to Jim, though, I'll definitely look into Whipple's flow rates and post up what I find.

[slbgtsc]

As long as it's in my garage, I'll be modding the hell out of it.

 

 

I've had the C&R/Shelby radiator for about a year already. I had to do some metal grinding on the upper radiator support to get it to fit with my old Paxton installed, but otherwise it was a simple install. It broke a weld right before the Vegas Bash, but C&R took great care of me by getting a replacement out in time, even outside of warranty. I've got Moroso aluminum fluid tanks also, so I think I'm pretty well good to go.

 

I've had this 55GPM EMP/Stewart electric pump on the shelf for a few months. My original intention, however, was to install it on the jacket water, so that I could keep water circulating through the engine, even after I shut it down at the track. I need to do some research into the flow rates of the Whipple intercooler system, before I decide whether a different pump would be beneficial there though. Bigger isn't always better when dealing with heat exchange. Thanks for the heads up though, I appreciate it.

http://www.summitrac...arts/EMP-E558AR

 

 

 

Sure thing Paul, I'll get some pics up asap.

 

 

This looks like it would be a great weight saver, but I need my OEM support for my FRPP tow hook.

 

 

First off, don't ever worry about hijacking this thread. It's a running cluster of anything and everything, so feel free to post anything you want honestly.

My only concern with running a bigger pump is that the water might not have enough time to transfer as much heat as it should. And if oversized too much, you could actually experience higher IAT's than with the stock pump. In the power plant I direct, I've got dozens of heat exchangers in operation 24/7 (tube bundles, plate/frame, engine exhaust to close loop water, intercooler/jacket water radiators for turbocharged natural gas engines, cooling towers, etc). The slower their pumps turn, the more heat gets exchanged (to a point obviously). The pumps are sized according to the flow rate of each system and the desired amount of BTU's to be transferred. Like I said to Jim, though, I'll definitely look into Whipple's flow rates and post up what I find.

 

 

Lethal sells an upgraded intercooler pump for the GT 500, My link so they must be on to something? The thread I posted earlier has some comments from some one who had some experience with the CJ cars and so I am assuming our systems are experiencing the same issues, not enough flow through the system for the HE to get things cooled down. The stock Saleen ( I run the Saleen SC'er) tank is dinky so with an upgrade to a bigger tank and more capacity in the HE along with a better pump the temps should drop.

[kahmann]

^Lethal sells it because that's what they found under the hood of the Cobra Jet. They state in their ad that basically, if the CJ crew thought it was a good idea, then hell why not.

That's not really the kind of engineering I'm looking for I guess. I understand the bigger must be better instinct, but in this case, I can assure you that it's not. There's obviously some advantage to running a grossly oversized pump on the drag strip, or else the CJ wouldn't have one. But I'm not a drag racer.

 

Consider the design of the intercooler itself - it's extremely restrictive...the most restrictive part of the system actually. If it's designed to flow 5-6 GPM's, then the engineers will source a 5-6 GPM pump. Certainly you can flow more water through the less restrictive parts of the system, but with the coil acting as a roadblock for the water, you'll never achieve that higher flow. Throwing a 55 GPM pump in the mix doesn't make the system any less restrictive. Hell, you could mount a 500 GPM pump on a trailer and plumb it into the system....that doesn't mean you're going to flow 500 GPM. The max flow rate of the intercooler is probably higher than 5-6 GPM, but like I wrote in my last post, this isn't the type of thing you want to max out. Flowing the maximum amount of water the system can tolerate only ensures that the water won't have as much time to release the heat it's captured from the intake charge.

 

I'm sure there's some wiggle room and that a slightly larger pump may help with the overall efficiency of the system. I just can't imagine that it would literally be 10 times the pump, however. I've got an email into the guys at Whipple to find out what the flow rate of this intercooler system is. I'll post up whatever I find, even if I'm wrong!

 

On a side note, I got the wrong Baer front rotors. If anyone needs a set for their GT brakes, let me know.

[slbgtsc]

^Lethal sells it because that's what they found under the hood of the Cobra Jet. They state in their ad that basically, if the CJ crew thought it was a good idea, then hell why not.

That's not really the kind of engineering I'm looking for I guess. I understand the bigger must be better instinct, but in this case, I can assure you that it's not. There's obviously some advantage to running a grossly oversized pump on the drag strip, or else the CJ wouldn't have one. But I'm not a drag racer.

 

Consider the design of the intercooler itself - it's extremely restrictive...the most restrictive part of the system actually. If it's designed to flow 5-6 GPM's, then the engineers will source a 5-6 GPM pump. Certainly you can flow more water through the less restrictive parts of the system, but with the coil acting as a roadblock for the water, you'll never achieve that higher flow. Throwing a 55 GPM pump in the mix doesn't make the system any less restrictive. Hell, you could mount a 500 GPM pump on a trailer and plumb it into the system....that doesn't mean you're going to flow 500 GPM. The max flow rate of the intercooler is probably higher than 5-6 GPM, but like I wrote in my last post, this isn't the type of thing you want to max out. Flowing the maximum amount of water the system can tolerate only ensures that the water won't have as much time to release the heat it's captured from the intake charge.

 

I'm sure there's some wiggle room and that a slightly larger pump may help with the overall efficiency of the system. I just can't imagine that it would literally be 10 times the pump, however. I've got an email into the guys at Whipple to find out what the flow rate of this intercooler system is. I'll post up whatever I find, even if I'm wrong!

 

On a side note, I got the wrong Baer front rotors. If anyone needs a set for their GT brakes, let me know.

 

 

 

Ken the thread i posted earlier is long but one of the guys responding knows someone who was part of the CJ test team post 85-87 details some of the test protocol that they went through and what they saw. It is all interesting as you stated above the Restrictions in the HE is the main hurdle and they overcame that to a point with the 55gpm pump. Steeda sells a 33 gpm pump for $209, which seems more reasonable than the $500 for the lethal setup. Saleen sells a complete upgraded HE system with fans larger HE, and an upgraded pump.

 

Here is what the CJ team saw from post 36.

From what I have seen the inlet/outlet of the intercooler (yes the one in the blower/intake) is your smallest restriction. As was said before you can increase the size of everything else in the system but if you don’t address the inlet/outlet of the intercooler you will not see any wholesale changes.

 

As far as the “sweet spot” for pumps go it’s a bit of a wives tale according to the three sources that I have followed up on this with. One source was Meziere the other the crew that did the original development on the 2010 FR500CJ and the third Bell Intercoolers.

 

When the FR500CJ development crew first had the car on the dyno with the big Whipple they were getting 275+deg IAT’s and couldn’t figure it out. Only after they put transparent hose on the intercooler system did it become clear (pun indented) that the water in the intercooler was vaporizing and the only thing coming out of the outlet was “steam”. They were using the standard FRPP water pump. They stopped testing and called Meziere. Meziere set them up with their 55gpm pump and the problem went away, no other changes.

 

I asked the Meziere guy who was the one that worked with Ford if the pump could be too big and he said no, not in an application like this because of the flow restrictions built into the system. He said that even if the entire system was 3/4" I.D. including the inlet/outlet of the intercooler that the intercooler core was enough of a restriction that you could not pump water through too fast even with the 55gpm pump.

 

And, I have been working with Bell Intercoolers (IC) on a more efficient setup for my own car and they concurred that the “restriction” in the system was the intercooler core itself, not the rest of the system. And again, they said you couldn’t have too big of a pump. Then the conversations rolled around to is a dual pass IC an efficient way to go or is it used mostly because of packaging. ALL of the engineers down there agreed that the IC’s that you get with the respective blowers are dual pass because of packaging. I was told in no uncertain terms that a single pass intercooler set up correctly is more efficient as long as the inlet/outlet are sized correctly. A -12AN in/out on a intercooler core that is 10x5x5 (which is on the large size of the IC’s that come with most blowers) is a good start. But dramatic improvements can be seen running two -12AN in/out on the same size intercooler. Of course a standard FRPP pump will not be enough for a setup like this but again I was told that there is still such a significant restriction through the core that a 55gpm pump can be run and it will still not be able to run the coolant through too fast.

 

I’m currently working on two IC “improvements”. One for street cars which I will be using my own car for testing. 2.6KB at 18psi. First step is a 10x5x5 IC core set up as single pass with a -12AN in/out running a 20gpm Meziere. Second step is swapping in a 55gpm Meziere. And if improvements are noticeable at that point I’ll probably test with a 10x5x5 IC core run single pass with two -12AN in/out’s. I doubt that at 18psi there will be a dramatic improvement going with the dual in/out but it’s easy to test.

 

The other application is on a friends “GT500” motored back halved race car that is still only running the stock GT500 blower but he is spinning it to 20,000rpm so the IAT’s are ridiculous! We probably won’t be making small steps with his car. We will most likely be going for the largest IC core we can jam in there and be running single pass with two -12AN in/out’s with a 55gpm Meziere.

 

Interesting reading for sure. I am looking forward to getting my air inlet temp gauge installed to get some base lines on my IAT. Then see what an upgraded HE does. I only run the drag strip 2-3 times a year for fun, but I plan on spending more time on road courses. I'll let these guys do the dirty work and see what I can learn.