metal in my oil

[kahmann]

Thanks for the support guys. It certainly has been a rough couple of months with this thing.

I'm a little depressed with the state of the engine obviously, but excited at the possibility that lies ahead.

Here are some pics of the filter I cut open.

 

[GT500-07]

Does anyone know if the aluminum block that MMR uses for it's short block the same as the production 4.6 or is it stronger?

 

its the FR aluminator block, a word of advise call Livernois or JDM

[blueone]

its the FR aluminator block, a word of advise call Livernois or JDM

 

+1

[NordicShelby]

its the FR aluminator block, a word of advise call Livernois or JDM

Thats exactly what my Tech mentioned he said if I ever blew my engine up this is the only way to go.

[rush_junky]

Hey Ken, I'm so sorry about your car. It'll be back on the road in due time.

[SGT-C0056]

Sorry to hear about thisd round of bad luck. Soundslike 2 solutions you might have:

 

1- Get a replacement engine and trade the car in (this way you dont worry about the next guy

 

2- Now you can build a Race engine and dedicate the SGT for track Only purpose..as you have planned

[bigcarl1]

Does anyone know if the aluminum block that MMR uses for it's short block the same as the production 4.6 or is it stronger?

Ken give me a call I know were you can get a Teksid Block when you are ready. Carl

[kahmann]

Ken give me a call I know were you can get a Teksid Block when you are ready. Carl

Thanks Carl I'll call you in a few.

 

Here are the options I have as I see it:

 

1- Pull this thing out and replace with the FRPP crate hot rod and sell off what's salvageable of my engine

Pros- Cost and overall ease

Cons- Weak bottom end

 

2- Buy a new block with forged internals plus heads

Pros- Strength

Cons- Cost

 

3- Re-use this block, install forged internals and new heads

Pros- Reduced cost over new long block, strong bottom end

Cons- Limitation of OEM block

 

#3 seems to be the best all around deal, but only if the stock block is capable of tolerating the abuse I'll be throwing at it.

What are the limitations of this block?

 

Ken

[Chill]

Wow, bummer Ken. I'm really sorry this has happened. You've been doing great things to your Shelby and I know all of us have enjoyed watching and learning as you've changed the car in to your vision. I, and I'm sure others, have gotten many utils from watching you forge ahead. I know you'll work through this just like you have other setbacks. Good luck!!

 

Chuck

[blueone]

Thanks Carl I'll call you in a few.

 

Here are the options I have as I see it:

 

1- Pull this thing out and replace with the FRPP crate hot rod and sell off what's salvageable of my engine

Pros- Cost and overall ease

Cons- Weak bottom end

 

2- Buy a new block with forged internals plus heads

Pros- Strength

Cons- Cost

 

3- Re-use this block, install forged internals and new heads

Pros- Reduced cost over new long block, strong bottom end

Cons- Limitation of OEM block

 

#3 seems to be the best all around deal, but only if the stock block is capable of tolerating the abuse I'll be throwing at it.

What are the limitations of this block?

 

Ken

 

 

I went with option #3, from what I've read and have been told by people who build these motors for a living is that the stock block is good to 900 or better. Another plus that comes with using your block and heads is that you will be able to know for sure exactly what parts were used and in my case be able to watch it going together. Livernois and several others use a production block for their 1000hp shortblocks. Maybe upgrade the side bolts,but I'm not worried at all about my block holding up.

 

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product.phtml?p=1550

[AstroDan]

Thanks Carl I'll call you in a few.

 

Here are the options I have as I see it:

 

1- Pull this thing out and replace with the FRPP crate hot rod and sell off what's salvageable of my engine

Pros- Cost and overall ease

Cons- Weak bottom end

 

2- Buy a new block with forged internals plus heads

Pros- Strength

Cons- Cost

 

3- Re-use this block, install forged internals and new heads

Pros- Reduced cost over new long block, strong bottom end

Cons- Limitation of OEM block

 

#3 seems to be the best all around deal, but only if the stock block is capable of tolerating the abuse I'll be throwing at it.

What are the limitations of this block?

 

Ken

 

I would go with #3 also. after all the work to your suspension and the tracking that you do, 500 HP from an OEM block would last forever. Build it, up the revs to @ 7000 and eat those Porches for lunch for a looonnngggg time.

 

Good luck and hopefully you'll have this worked out in time for the AED run or bring the '66. (No Corrolla's allowed!)

Please keep us posted.

Dan

[kahmann]

^ That is very good news. Thanks a lot for chiming in. Your build is a remarkable one and I'm very pleased to hear that you're using the stock block.

I figure that there must be something good that comes from catching this so early. Since my block is in tact, it makes sense to try to re-use it, especially if it's strong enough for the job.

 

Chuck, thanks a lot for the kind words man. My 'vision' of this car is a bit blurry at the moment, but I'll get her back on track in no time! I've had a lot of fun modding this thing to the hilt over the past year but always had this doomsday scenario in the back of my mind. I'm certainly not happy to not have the option of doing this on my own timeline, but so it goes.

 

Dan, I'll need to hitch a ride to AED, if no Corollas are allowed! I sold my 66 early last week. I'm pretty lucky to have found a good buyer in this market so quickly. With the SGT in this condition, I would have no room for the fastback in my garage. Plus it gave me a big old chunk of change to work with for this new unexpected project. Anyway, I'll just drive yours up there man, don't sweat it!

 

Ken

[AstroDan]

Anyway, I'll just drive yours up there man, don't sweat it!

 

Ken

 

No problem. :unsure: :burnout:

I've got a quote in hand from AED in September for internal (short block) upgrades. I've been readying my wife for the (potential) costs. :angel:

I can swing by and pick you up, if you'd like...

 

Dan

[kahmann]

^ That's awesome Dan. What kind of price tag did AED give you? If you don't want to mention it here, can you PM me? Are you planning on re-using your block?

And you might think I'm joking, but I'm seriously getting my $50 worth and putting the 'Rolla on the dyno!

 

The destruction under the hood has begun. I've got photos loading to photobucket now. This is going to be a serious PITA.

 

Ken

[kahmann]

[kahmann]

[kahmann]

[Dans07SGT]

Damn, I wish I lived a little closer. I'd come over and give you a hand. If you don't have it out by next Sunday give me a call and I'll come up.

[kahmann]

Damn, I wish I lived a little closer. I'd come over and give you a hand. If you don't have it out by next Sunday give me a call and I'll come up.

Thanks buddy I might take you up on that.

[kahmann]

[AstroDan]

^ That's awesome Dan. What kind of price tag did AED give you? If you don't want to mention it here, can you PM me? Are you planning on re-using your block?

And you might think I'm joking, but I'm seriously getting my $50 worth and putting the 'Rolla on the dyno!

 

The destruction under the hood has begun. I've got photos loading to photobucket now. This is going to be a serious PITA.

 

Ken

 

For a AED signature short block, ARP studs, freshen heads, gaskets, whipple pulley, GT500 oil pump assbly and misc parts incl tune etc, about $8500, which includes labor. (Of course) A serious amount of money after the 11k I spent at SAI.

After Feb next year (Big OT project at work), I think the wife will go for it! :happy feet:

 

Bring the Rolla on! I'm off after Tuesday, I'd come up and help you out if you want. Send me a PM with address I can program into the Garmin...

 

 

Dan

[dave c]

Wow Ken, sorry to hear about this. But like they say, you gotta pay to play. Personally, I wouldn't plan on building a new motor until you find out what caused this problem. Were the cams were installed properly? Could it have been a manufacturing defect? Too high of rpm's? There are too many questions for me.

 

If I'm gonna build a motor, I certainly wouldn't want this problem to happen again. Forged bottom end wouldn't have helped and in the end would have cost you more money. Assuming that the metal didn't score the cylinder walls or mess up any of the valves. I think you should really stop and evaluate what caused this and re build accordingly.

 

I know you're the mod master, but spend your money wisely. We all don't need to learn at your expense. I'm sure we all enjoy reading your never ending projects, but this car could become an even bigger money pit.

[SGT/SC#0471]

This is really good info. However, they don't list the 3V as an option. Are the rockers the same across all mod motors still or are these different?

I'm running Comp stage 2 XFI cams with Comp valve springs and retainers. At the time of install, I asked about rockers, wondering how the stock ones would hold up with the other valvetrain upgrades. I was told there weren't any issues at all. Apparently that's not the case.

Does anyone else build an aftermarket mod rocker? I'm also interested in finding someone to custom grind my stock cams, now that 1/2 of this Comp set is junk.

Thanks for the link.

 

Ken

 

 

There is a company called Cam Grinders in Kent or Auburn Wa I think...if ya want I can get you the info...buddy had a BB Chev very high lift drag cam cam re-done to a custom street grind done there and it came out awesome...

 

Saying that, you can subtract on a grind but not add lift...grinding a stock cam would reduce lift and duration, not what you'd want I believe...

[SGT/SC#0471]

Thanks for the support guys. It certainly has been a rough couple of months with this thing.

I'm a little depressed with the state of the engine obviously, but excited at the possibility that lies ahead.

Here are some pics of the filter I cut open.

 

 

Dude not to be a dilhole, but as HD Shovelhead uses roller tappets and they fail with dirty oil, have you changed this oil regularly the filter looks kinda black or is that the media is darker colored paper?

[kahmann]

Wow Ken, sorry to hear about this. But like they say, you gotta pay to play. Personally, I wouldn't plan on building a new motor until you find out what caused this problem. Were the cams were installed properly? Could it have been a manufacturing defect? Too high of rpm's? There are too many questions for me.

 

If I'm gonna build a motor, I certainly wouldn't want this problem to happen again. Forged bottom end wouldn't have helped and in the end would have cost you more money. Assuming that the metal didn't score the cylinder walls or mess up any of the valves. I think you should really stop and evaluate what caused this and re build accordingly.

 

I know you're the mod master, but spend your money wisely. We all don't need to learn at your expense. I'm sure we all enjoy reading your never ending projects, but this car could become an even bigger money pit.

Very sound advice. I haven't paid for anything yet. I'm simply getting started on what will be necessary anyway. As for what caused the failure, it doesn't really matter.

There's no way for me to prove faulty install. I was running aftermarket cams/springs/retainers against stock rockers and lash adjusters. Ford won't have anything to say about this. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not going back to stock. I'll always pursue more power, so I'll take advantage of this failure to strengthen everything that I can. As for being a money pit, it always will be. Gotta pay to play.

 

Dude not to be a dilhole, but as HD Shovelhead uses roller tappets and they fail with dirty oil, have you changed this oil regularly the filter looks kinda black or is that the media is darker colored paper?

Just shy of 3k miles. RedLine synthetic 5W30. Oil has never gone past 3500 miles in any of my cars.

 

Ken

[SGT/SC#0471]

Wow Ken, sorry to hear about this. But like they say, you gotta pay to play. Personally, I wouldn't plan on building a new motor until you find out what caused this problem. Were the cams were installed properly? Could it have been a manufacturing defect? Too high of rpm's? There are too many questions for me.

 

If I'm gonna build a motor, I certainly wouldn't want this problem to happen again. Forged bottom end wouldn't have helped and in the end would have cost you more money. Assuming that the metal didn't score the cylinder walls or mess up any of the valves. I think you should really stop and evaluate what caused this and re build accordingly.

 

I know you're the mod master, but spend your money wisely. We all don't need to learn at your expense. I'm sure we all enjoy reading your never ending projects, but this car could become an even bigger money pit.

 

 

+1, I'd redo the valve train dump the oil alot real quick like and run the mother if it was mine...until it really blew up in a righteous way...at about 6500rpm smoking all over in a 3rd gear powershift listening to Sabbath at volume 11. My two cents...

 

Look at an oiling diagram the filter may have caught most of the chips...

[kahmann]

I don't feel like cleaning up after an explosion at redline on the track, first of all. Then I'm left with a block that can't be re-used at the very least.

Running it till it blows is not a good answer, IMO. I feel lucky to have caught this before anymore damage was done. What was left undone by Ford will be finished here shortly.

 

Ken

 

EDIT: The only part of the oiling diagram I'd be interested in is the oil pan. When running a magnet through the bottom of the brand new drain oil pan I used for this oil change, I collect enough metal particles to fill the end of the sizable magnet. 1/2 of a cam lobe isn't going to disappear into the filter, however much I wish it would.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Ken I do not think it is a Ford issue honestly...I think you got a bum cam install or a bum cam. As a Chevy hot rod guy I can tell you happens all the time on BB Chevs...wrong break in or install boom flat cam...

 

Thats why I put in a valley screen with epoxy on Chev's to catch the debris and save the bottom end.

 

So far always had good luck on the cam break in...

 

A stock longblock is what $3500?

 

Anyways not tryin to add grief with your bummer just saying...you could run it. Ask a circle track guy what they run...

[SGT/SC#0471]

And I would add that a forged bottom end would not have helped this like Dave C said but you could add boost then...

 

Ok enough internet hero...sorry Ken I know you will get it you are a good wrench...

 

Respect and I will send a good wrench vibe to ya if I can...Cheers!-R

[kahmann]

Understood. I appreciate any input at this point. A stock longblock from Ford is double that.

By pulling this thing myself, I'll save a lot of labor costs. I can strip the engine down to the block then have my machine shop install the new forged rotating assembly for a whole lot less. While I'm at it, I'd be considering heads/cams/clutch/flywheel/etc. It only makes sense to take care of any potential upgrades while the engine is out. This won't be an overnight or ill advised project. I've got too much money buried in it already. What I do know right now, however, is that there's nothing I can do about the failure aside from upgrading everything within my reach. It may take months, but this won't happen again.

 

Ken