1badsho Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 I bought a set of 410 gears and had planned to put them in yesterday but our service dept got to busy to do so. My question is this : those who have the 410s installed ... how much did your rpms go up .. say in 5th or 6th gear ? Also do u have any other mods such as a tune or CAI thanks and merry christmas to all ! dond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 I bought a set of 410 gears and had planned to put them in yesterday but our service dept got to busy to do so. My question is this : those who have the 410s installed ... how much did your rpms go up .. say in 5th or 6th gear ? Also do u have any other mods such as a tune or CAI thanks and merry christmas to all ! dond Here you go don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badsho Posted December 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Here you go don. Alloy dave Thank you so much ... so it looks at 65 mph about a 400 rpm increase which isnt that bad actually. Pretty much what Ford Racing said too .. Ok feel better about the rpms than thanks again dond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Alloy dave Thank you so much ... so it looks at 65 mph about a 400 rpm increase which isnt that bad actually. Pretty much what Ford Racing said too .. Ok feel better about the rpms than thanks again dond no problem. SCGT said it was ok to help you out on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Can someone here give us your perspectives on how the everyday driving changed when you changed gears? I'm considering going to the 3.73's, but the lack of traction is a major issue with the stock gears, so I am hesitant. Thanks, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastbackman Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 Can someone here give us your perspectives on how the everyday driving changed when you changed gears? I'm considering going to the 3.73's, but the lack of traction is a major issue with the stock gears, so I am hesitant. Thanks, guys. That's all the more reason not to hesitate. 3.73's will improve your traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badsho Posted December 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 That's all the more reason not to hesitate. 3.73's will improve your traction. "improve your traction" ??? Fastbackman .... i feel a physics class coming on .. pls explain .... See .. I want the gears and the addtional HP .. for one reason .. I dont drag race .... I dont burn rubber from a standing stop .. but oh my lord .. do i love to pass someone one when i am doing 30 and get by them ! My need for speed is in the 20 to 80 mph range ! dond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastbackman Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 You'll definitely feel the gain in that range and I'm no physics guy by any stretch of the imagination. Simple fact is 3.73's will spin less time from a standstill than 3.31's and 4.10 will spin less than 3.73's. The only downside is a loss of top speed. I've never ran over 150 so I don't care about the loss on the top end. I do like to drag mine a little and would like to go 3.73's or 4.10's but I'm leaning toward 4.10's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADBOY500 Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 It's about time someone realized I am in charge around here! I'd love to drive a few cars with the different gear changes to get the real feel of the differences. SCGT500........WHO?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Oval Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 I was thinking of the 3.90 offered by Pro-5.0. The ring gear is lightened also. I thought it to be a nice compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastbackman Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 I've given that one some thought as well, but I've been told that if you don't use Ford gears, many have had problems with excessive noise. I thought it might be the best compromise. Has anyone used the 3.90? If so, was it noisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 That's all the more reason not to hesitate. 3.73's will improve your traction. My understanding is that the 3.73's would cause the wheels to accelerate at a faster rate than the 3.31's do, which means the tires are more likely to break loose with the 3.73's than the 3.31's. Check out Alloy Dave's post above in this thread. At an RPM of 6,250, the vehicle speed is as follows: 3.31 = 51.1 MPH 3.73 = 45.3 MPH 4.10 = 41.2 MPH This looks to me like the engine will "wind up" more quickly with the 3.73's than with the 3.31's, which suggests worse traction to me. Can someone here tell me if I'm missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 I'd love to drive a few cars with the different gear changes to get the real feel of the differences. Ok, I have a 3.73 in my Honda CRV. Come on over. P.S. Bring your GT500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra666 Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 My understanding is that the 3.73's would cause the wheels to accelerate at a faster rate than the 3.31's do, which means the tires are more likely to break loose with the 3.73's than the 3.31's. Check out Alloy Dave's post above in this thread. At an RPM of 6,250, the vehicle speed is as follows: 3.31 = 51.1 MPH 3.73 = 45.3 MPH 4.10 = 41.2 MPH This looks to me like the engine will "wind up" more quickly with the 3.73's than with the 3.31's, which suggests worse traction to me. Can someone here tell me if I'm missing something? You got it right. Numerically higher gears (4.10 vs say a 3.31) give a greater mechanical advantage to the engine so they will be harder to keep hooked up. If you have the rubber to stay hooked up, the 4.10 would get you through the quarter faster, allow the car to accelerate faster but at the expense of top end...provided you CAN hook up. Your milage will also suck. I had a 70 Challenger back in the day with a 4.11 in it. That thing was a major gas hog, but man it could move off the line. KC666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVTpower Posted December 25, 2006 Report Share Posted December 25, 2006 You got it right. Numerically higher gears (4.10 vs say a 3.31) give a greater mechanical advantage to the engine so they will be harder to keep hooked up. If you have the rubber to stay hooked up, the 4.10 would get you through the quarter faster, allow the car to accelerate faster but at the expense of top end...provided you CAN hook up. Your milage will also suck. I had a 70 Challenger back in the day with a 4.11 in it. That thing was a major gas hog, but man it could move off the line. KC666 You are correct........more spin with more gear without a better tire. As for the days..........no overdrives back then, today we can tolerate gear.............we have 2 o/d gears in the 6 speed tranny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted December 25, 2006 Report Share Posted December 25, 2006 So has anyone on this site changed out to 3.73's or 4.10's? If so, throw me a bone and give me your before and after driving impressions. I'm with child.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 So has anyone on this site changed out to 3.73's or 4.10's? If so, throw me a bone and give me your before and after driving impressions. I'm with child.... I have 373's in my GT500, my F150 lightning(stock gear)and my 91 TBird5.0. The main reason to make a gear change like this is to increase the vehicle's ability to take it's weight and accelerate it at a faster rate ( make it quicker). There are many things to consider before choosing a rear gear. For me it was : (1) What is the weight of the vehicle ? (2)What is my target HP going to be after the enging mods are completed ? (3)How am I going to be using this vehicle ? ie: drag race, road race, street use, ect? I my case both the GT500 and T-Bird weigh about 4000 lbs. Target HP is about 750 fwhp . I also drive them both on the street as well as the track. In drag racing the trap speed and rpms are what I consider when choosing the rear gear .Too steep a gear and you will be going through the traps at too high an RPM.The 373's allow me to keep the rpms in the proper range. As far as traction is concerned , this needs to be addressed with both tire and suspension mods. It is also affected by your driving ability (throttle finesse') If I was going to keep the HP at 600 fwhp I would probably go with 410s but with 750 fwhp as a goal I have chosen the 373's. Hope this helps, George... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 What is FWHP? My 4.10's are working out just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptorr3 Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 You got it right. Numerically higher gears (4.10 vs say a 3.31) give a greater mechanical advantage to the engine so they will be harder to keep hooked up. If you have the rubber to stay hooked up, the 4.10 would get you through the quarter faster, allow the car to accelerate faster but at the expense of top end...provided you CAN hook up. Your milage will also suck. I had a 70 Challenger back in the day with a 4.11 in it. That thing was a major gas hog, but man it could move off the line. KC666 I put 410's in my 98 cobra, and it actually picked up 10mph top end over stock, this is due to the fact that fifth now actually pulled harder and was a gear, not just overdrive....... I don't know if the case is the same with the GT500????????? I'm not sure if you can just calculate top speed with a math equation, sure the math works but can you actually go that fast, in the gear chart there top speeds looked a little ridiculous did they not??? maybe I am reading it wrong, so 410's can increase top speed as well as acceleration...... best mods on my 98 were gears and tires.......totally different car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 I put 410's in my 98 cobra, and it actually picked up 10mph top end over stock, this is due to the fact that fifth now actually pulled harder and was a gear, not just overdrive....... I don't know if the case is the same with the GT500????????? I'm not sure if you can just calculate top speed with a math equation, sure the math works but can you actually go that fast, in the gear chart there top speeds looked a little ridiculous did they not??? maybe I am reading it wrong, so 410's can increase top speed as well as acceleration...... best mods on my 98 were gears and tires.......totally different car I have to disagree. Going to a lower gear (higher numerical) will only DECREASE the top speed of a car. Perhaps you mean the top speed IN THE QUARTER MILE? If so, then I can believe that...but not the top speed out on an open road. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra8u Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 I have to disagree. Going to a lower gear (higher numerical) will only DECREASE the top speed of a car. Perhaps you mean the top speed IN THE QUARTER MILE? If so, then I can believe that...but not the top speed out on an open road. Dave A lower gear will decrease the theoretical top speed, but you can never reach the theoretical top speed due to wind resistance, there is no way you can red line the tach in sixth gear. Your real observed top speed will increase with lower gears because the engine torque will be multiplied to the point that your car can overcome a higher level of wind resistance, resulting in higher rpm in sixth gear and higher top speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Well - apparently we have yet to get to the bottom of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 A lower gear will decrease the theoretical top speed, but you can never reach the theoretical top speed due to wind resistance, there is no way you can red line the tach in sixth gear. Your real observed top speed will increase with lower gears because the engine torque will be multiplied to the point that your car can overcome a higher level of wind resistance, resulting in higher rpm in sixth gear and higher top speed. Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this....I disagree. Let me be more clear...what I disagree with is that going to a lower gear (i.e. a 4.10) will actually increase the top speed you can see. I do agree you can't reach a "theoretical" top speed due to wind resistance. I have no opinion on whether you can reach redline in 6th gear. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 I'll give it a shot tomorrow.......but I may not be back to report. Co-pilot won't want to be a back-seat driver in that test. As a matter of fact, she may have 'veto rights' on the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptorr3 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this....I disagree. Let me be more clear...what I disagree with is that going to a lower gear (i.e. a 4.10) will actually increase the top speed you can see. I do agree you can't reach a "theoretical" top speed due to wind resistance. I have no opinion on whether you can reach redline in 6th gear. Dave I will check, but there was real testing done with this I am sure..... my 98 cobra with just the addition of 410's picked up 10mph top end......I don't know the math behind it, but this is what I was told by a reliable source......let me double check..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra8u Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this....I disagree. Let me be more clear...what I disagree with is that going to a lower gear (i.e. a 4.10) will actually increase the top speed you can see. I do agree you can't reach a "theoretical" top speed due to wind resistance. I have no opinion on whether you can reach redline in 6th gear. Dave If you could reach red line in sixth gear, you would be at the theoretical top speed. This could happen in a vacuum, but not in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 What if you had a 175 mph tail wind? :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra8u Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 What if you had a 175 mph tail wind? :happy feet: OK, you got me. Now, how about a 175 mph tail wind in a vacuum. With stock gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Oh B Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 OK, I've done a lot of gear swaps. I'm a gear swap junky, I guess. Here's a few thoughts. Top Speed. Yes, you can actually improve real-life top speed when going with more gear. For example, I bought a 1989 5.0L Mustang brand new. 5-speed manual and 2.73 gears. I took it out on a long lonely stretch of black top that was dozens of miles long. Top speed was 135 mph. Overdrive just wasn't strong enough to accelerate at that speed, so 4th gear was best (car only rated at 225hp so aerodynamics really came into play). In a vacuum that car would have gone much faster, but we don't live in a vacuum. Had 3.73 gears installed. Much better acceleration, but I was curious how top speed would be affected. Went back to the same long stretch of highway. Car topped out much quicker (better torque multiplication in all gears, including overdrive) and I was able to top 145 mph. Gained 10 mph top speed, while also improving acceleration. Theoretical top speed still hadn't been reached (still not at redline), but wind resistance was still too much for the little 225hp motor to overcome. I went from 3.55's to 4.30's in my 2003 Mach 1, and recently went from 3.31's to 4.10's in my 2007 Mustang GT. The Mach 1 was already geared very well from the factory, so drag racing improvement was negligible, but around town driveability was improved. The 07 is a much different story. The 3.31's just weren't enough gear for the weight of the S197! With the 4.10's the car launches so much harder! Around town, the car is so much more entertaining! Best spent money so far on my car. Traction. OK, here's the deal. More gear will, indeed, induce wheelspin easier due to the increased torque multiplication. However, more gear will recover from the wheelspin sooner, so you will hook up and get traction shortly after wheelspin begins. Less gear will be harder to get spinning, but once it starts to spin the car will spin longer. I believe the law of physics at play here is inertia? As GT500's will spin regardless of gears with their abundant supercharged torque curves and inadequate factory rubber, then moving from 3.31's to 3.73's or 4.10's will actually get wheelspin under control quicker. I have another real-life example to share. I had a 1968 Pontiac GTO for 9 years. Had several different gear ratios over those years (2.56, 3.55, and 3.90). This car was balanced, blueprinted, and 6.5 liters of big block V8 making 425 hp and about 550 lb ft of torque at the crank. Street/strip prepped Turbo 400 transmission and Saf-T-Trac "posi" rear end. The best gears at the drags were 3.90's. Car would spin the slicks about 50 feet (at 10 psi), hook up and go. 3.55's was dicier with hooking up. 2.56's were very dangerous. The car took a little more pedal to get the tires spinning, but once spinning, I could spin them forever. A buddy of mine brought a camcorder to the track and dared me to spin the entire length of the 1/4 mile. I was able to spin them 3/4 of the way down the track (about 3 city blocks!) before the car finally hooked up. Great film footage, but terrible acceleration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Do all the gears change when you swap them or would it be possible to get say 3.73 for 1-5th and keep your 6th stock for the highway cruise control. I like my 80MPH at 2K RPMs because the ride is so smooth and quiet even in the vert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.