SPEEDY168 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I read about us putting on superchargers, CAI, tunes, pulleys, Super Snakes, KRs, and anything else we can find to have bragging rights about horsepower and torque. What about the bottom end ? Has anyone ever had a failure due to putting too much horsepower thru these ? When people get them snaked , does Shelby do anything to make them stronger ? I would assume a guy can only go so far, so how far is too far ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT4578 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The stock bottom end is capable of over a 1000 hp safely, as per Ford. The 4.6 is capable of over 900. You may keep in mind that any increase will lessen overall longevity, but you can only live once. If it goes just build it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The stock bottom end is capable of over a 1000 hp safely, as per Ford. The 4.6 is capable of over 900. You may keep in mind that any increase will lessen overall longevity, but you can only live once. If it goes just build it better. where did Ford state 1000hp on the 5.4 and 900hp on the 4.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 900 on a 4.6?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT4578 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Was stated by a ford engineer, It was also discussed here some time ago. Maybe someone can find it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshadow1234 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 If 900 on a 4.6 then why bother with a Shelby 5.4l? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grsybtch Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 If 900 on a 4.6 then why bother with a Shelby 5.4l? Probably because it takes over 7 grand to get a 4.6 just to 550! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imatk Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Guys there have been quite a number of people blow their GT 4.6 motors with FAR less than 900 hp. When you're talking about engine performance outside of the realm of production design you're in unknown territory to a degree. Evolution performance had their GT500 somewhere in the realm of 900 rwhp but they blew the engine not long after. Perhaps they can chime in here. Fortunately for us enthusiasts there are shops out there (and people with deep pockets) that will push the performance envelope of these cars for us. Then we get to sit back and see what happens... i.e. how long their motor lasts before BLAMMO! For a 4.6 liter motor majority consensus is around 500rwhp is "safe" as long as your tune and gas is good. Does that mean every motor will last under 500rwhp? No. No one can truthfully say for certain how long a motor will last or how much power it can handle. The best you can get is an educated guess backed up by many hours of research and many instances of failure. Believe me I labored over how much power I wanted to push my GT with. I finally settled at about 440 rwhp. Why? Because things start to break when you go above that on the stock GT. I found that out when I went to a smaller pulley and upped the boost. Within three days my clutch fried. I would say even at 440rwhp the car is incredible since it was designed to handle 300 CRANK hp. From what I've read and researched on the GT500 around 700rwhp is the "safe" range on these motors. Again, does the mean EVERY GT500 motor will be fine at that level? No... just a guess going by others past experiments and failures. The best way it was described to me was if you think about a pencil. You can bend a pencil only so many times before it will break.... it just depends on how willing you are to bend and break it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewheelman Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I can believe the 900 and 1000 numbers above easier than I can some of our import buddies saying they can get 1000 out of a Supra--with a straight 6. With a crank and cam that long, high rpm flex has to come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07SGT4578 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 You can spend all the money in the world on forged internals, heads, more this, more that etc. but most people here will never use the motor in which all that stuff is intended for. If you do it does not matter if the motor is stock or crazy modded, stuff breaks. This is why you see multiple engines and a engine builder with real race teams. The 4.6l and 5.4l engines are capable of awesome safe numbers, what makes them not safe generally is the tune and the weather. These engines in our cars are not built for power, they are built for longevity. (even the GT5) I really wish the search feature was not a complete pain in the butt, or I would search for the other old topic on this. Maybe one of the Niche line guys will see this thread and can enlighten us. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I can believe the 900 and 1000 numbers above easier than I can some of our import buddies saying they can get 1000 out of a Supra--with a straight 6. With a crank and cam that long, high rpm flex has to come into play. They change the Supra internals (crank, rods) and put 30+psi in it to make the power. Stock it is only about 300hp. Owners are cocky as heck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Ford warranties the 605HP TVS Supersnakes but not the Kenne Bell 725HP ones so I would use that as a guide. When the engineers say "900-1000HP" I think they mean what the crank, rods and block "feels." 900-1000HP on a crank after all the parasitic losses (friction, heat, inertia, supercharger, accessories, drivetrain losses, etc.) that will be about 725HP to the wheels. From what I have read here about the 5.4-4V engine and come to understand, the block is good to 1000+RWHP and the rods about 700 with a safe tune. I believe the rods are the achilles heel of the engine but hey- 640RWHP isn't bad for a stock motor! If you install a good set of rods you can put the twin-turbo kit on it to make upwards to 1200RWHP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsfdiver Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I believe Evolution Performance has/had a GT500 "first one in the 8's" stock motor with lotsa boost somewhere around 1200 rwhp & rwtq. I believe it is still around, correct me if I am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imatk Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I believe Evolution Performance has/had a GT500 "first one in the 8's" stock motor with lotsa boost somewhere around 1200 rwhp & rwtq.I believe it is still around, correct me if I am wrong They blew the stock motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 They blew the stock motor. Maybe you can ask them at what point the rod(s) broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhay2 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 They change the Supra internals (crank, rods) and put 30+psi in it to make the power. Mark IV Turbo Supras have forged bottom ends as OEM equipment. With a turbo swap and some electronics they have put down 700+ to the wheels on the stock engine. 1000 hp is very possible with a built block, race gas, the proper turbo and electronics. Maybe you can ask them at what point the rod(s) broke. When the 5.4 is revved beyond the stock rev limit, the rods have a much greater likelihood of failure. Engine rpm is the bigger factor. Moreso than hp or boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Mark IV Turbo Supras have forged bottom ends as OEM equipment. With a turbo swap and some electronics they have put down 700+ to the wheels on the stock engine. 1000 hp is very possible with a built block, race gas, the proper turbo and electronics. When the 5.4 is revved beyond the stock rev limit, the rods have a much greater likelihood of failure. Engine rpm is the bigger factor. Moreso than hp or boost. But Mark IV 1999 was the last U.S. version- 10yrs now. Have you seen any in person lately? The stock 5.4-4V rev limit is 6250RPM to be exact. The stress on the rods get exponentially greater at higher RPM's. The crank is steel and the block is good, if the rods are changed you can get 1200HP out of it with an off-the-shelf turbo kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangme Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 As far as the weakest link in the drive train. A Super Snake owner told me at the big Mustang show in Indy, back in June, that in his opinion the CLUTCH was the weakest link in the drivetrain...of his 725-750 H.P supersnake......I do not recall weather or not he told me he had an actual cluthch failure on his SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Okay, so I'm confused here....is the advertised 725hp SuperSnake making that power at the crank or the rear-wheels? I have some people say 'crank' and many others swearing it is 'rear-wheels' .... so which is it?? - BORG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imatk Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Okay, so I'm confused here....is the advertised 725hp SuperSnake making that power at the crank or the rear-wheels? I have some people say 'crank' and many others swearing it is 'rear-wheels' .... so which is it?? - BORG I'm totally guessing here, but usually advertised HP numbers are always at the crank unless it's indicated otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Okay, so I'm confused here....is the advertised 725hp SuperSnake making that power at the crank or the rear-wheels? I have some people say 'crank' and many others swearing it is 'rear-wheels' .... so which is it?? - BORG I apologize- I did some more research the 605 & 725 Supersnake ratings are SAE at the crank. The 725HP versions are getting 620-640RWHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimazo Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Motor Trend just dyno'd a 2010 Supersnake (750hp version - new for '10) that comes with the Whipple. Not sure of the type of dyno, but they got 635 horsepower and 581 lb-ft of torque. Here's a pic under the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 I apologize- I did some more research the 605 & 725 Supersnake ratings are SAE at the crank. The 725HP versions are getting 620-640RWHP. Thanks for the clarification. I thought so too, but just wanted to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.