Stage 3 Kenne Bell and only running 12.8 Second quarter Mile

[kharper]

Hi,

 

Ok I am starting to wonder what is wrong :P

 

Some background:

 

Running on an open track night with no traction compound (even less grip) 100% stock including tires. I was running 13.7 seconds

 

So I slap on just a stage 3 2.8l Kenne Bell with the standard pully (about 15.5 PSI boost and street tune) and everything else 100% stock including the tires. Another open track nigh with no compound and the best I could muster is 12.8 seconds

 

As of yesterday the car is in the shop getting the next wave of upgrades.

- FR3 Suspension (caster and camber plates for front struts)

- Line Lock

- 373 gears

- 1 piece drive shaft

- Fays2 Watts Link

- Stinger Exhaust

- Front and Rear driveshaft loops

- Upper and lower control arms (LCA relocation brackets since the suspension will lower the car)

- Differential Girdle

- C&R Heat exchange

- All 4 Nitto NT05 Tires and a Set of M/T Drag Radials II for the track

 

So I have my 100% stock baseline on 13.7, 12.8 with the KB 2.8 and now I will have to find out what the final changes will net me.

 

What I am wondering with seeing some peoples stock times in the low 12's... what is up with 12.8 seconds with 660 RWHP from the kenne bell??? Or is this due to no traction?

 

 

Any feed back is appreciated

[rdragoo]

That's almost 700 horsepower. Sounds like the kenne bell is doing it's job. I can't imagine not having a traction problem at that power level. I'm leaning toward a Kenne Bell also.

[SVTpower]

you have 10 sec hp...........driver improvement? and traction are needed. Even just quick shifting, you should be an easy mid 11 @ 128-130 mph+

[srk1959]

What were your 60' times? Traction is a problem at these HP levels and the driver makes a big difference as well. I could not get out of the 11's with my Tvs at 683 rwhp and another driver jumped in first time and did a 10.7. Check out my link at the bottom. I need much more practice!

 

Also temp's play a big part as well. What was the temp at the track?

[kharper]

That's almost 700 horsepower. Sounds like the kenne bell is doing it's job. I can't imagine not having a traction problem at that power level. I'm leaning toward a Kenne Bell also.

 

Hi,

 

I did not Dyno it to obtain the number of 660, that is what they rate the blower at with the Stage 3, standard pully and street tune.

 

I guess I am wondering how people are getting into the low 12's on a stock car... I am still high 12's with a Kenne Bell. Or do they need slick/Drag Radials traction compound in on a stock car to obtain low 12's?

 

Thanks

[sharabi]

KB was frying and evaporating the stock tires!

[kharper]

What were your 60' times? Traction is a problem at these HP levels and the driver makes a big difference as well. I could not get out of the 11's with my Tvs at 683 rwhp and another driver jumped in first time and did a 10.7. Check out my link at the bottom. I need much more practice!

 

Also temp's play a big part as well. What was the temp at the track?

 

It was about 77 degrees. 60 foot was about 2.3 seconds (some wasted time there) so hopefully Better tires will fix that.

 

Lol, I am not even getting into the 11's let alone 10's. So you run a sticky tire in order to hit the 11's?

[chimazo]

What was your MPH for each of the runs (stock vs KB)? MPH is much more indicative of how much HP you are putting down than the ET is.

[kharper]

KB was frying and evaporating the stock tires!

 

I was hitting around 118 MPH, will better traction at the start give a faster MPH? Or are they not related?

[kharper]

What was your MPH for each of the runs (stock vs KB)? MPH is much more indicative of how much HP you are putting down than the ET is.

 

Stock was about 104MPH and the KB was around 118 MPH.

[SVTpower]

so you picked up about 150 hp based on your mph..........stock about 430, so you're at about 570-580 rwhp

[kharper]

Can the suspension upgrades (FR3, Upper/Lower Control arms/Watts Link), Drag radials AND Traction compound help knock time off? Is it possible for these to shave 1-1.5 seconds off?

 

I was hoping to hit Low/Mid 11's with standard street tune.

[SVTpower]

at 118, you have mid 11 potential with traction

[kharper]

at 118, you have mid 11 potential with traction

 

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for the responses so far

 

So would mid 11's be expected with a KB with street tune and a standard pulley?

 

I guess deep down inside I though maybe I did the KB install wrong. Or is this about right.

[srk1959]

Hi,

 

I did not Dyno it to obtain the number of 660, that is what they rate the blower at with the Stage 3, standard pully and street tune.

 

I guess I am wondering how people are getting into the low 12's on a stock car... I am still high 12's with a Kenne Bell. Or do they need slick/Drag Radials traction compound in on a stock car to obtain low 12's?

 

Thanks

 

 

You for sure need some kind of drag radial. Because even if you factor in your 60' time you are still probably losing 1/2 a second or more due to tire spin when you shift. Even if you can't hear or feel it it's happening. If you listen on the video link of my car you can hear the tires squeal. It's losing time there even with the drag radial. This can affect your mile per hour as well as ET if it's bad enough.

 

I used 305/35/18 M/T ET Streets last year and this year I have 345/35/18 M/T ET Streets and with the new Whipple 2.9 traction sucks even with them. A drag radial is the only way to see the true potential of your car.

[SVTpower]

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for the responses so far

 

So would mid 11's be expected with a KB with street tune and a standard pulley?

 

I guess deep down inside I though maybe I did the KB install wrong. Or is this about right.

 

seems a bit low in the hp depart but other factors need to be told, elevation where you live, humidity, temps, etc.........you should put it on a dyno to ensure the tune is good

[kharper]

seems a bit low in the hp depart but other factors need to be told, elevation where you live, humidity, temps, etc.........you should put it on a dyno to ensure the tune is good

 

Thanks,

 

I may have to try and find a dyno... There is nothing anywhere near me.. I may be able to find one a couple of hundred miles away.

[2kmelat]

im running the kb stage 3 evo com and with my street tune 3 in pulley i was runing 11.2 @ 128 now the track that i was at was shit. Im running 305/45/18 mt my fasest time on the street tune was 10.98 @ 131. hopfully next week my bogarts come in and ill put in my race tune with some torco and see what i get. 2 weeks ago i have jon tune my car and i love it if u have a ? just im me.

[BADBOY500]

Thanks,

 

I may have to try and find a dyno... There is nothing anywhere near me.. I may be able to find one a couple of hundred miles away.

 

 

Not to be pompus or a jerk, But you need to learn to drive this car....It is a hard car to track competitively and or fast. When I say fast I am talking 11.1 @135 or better.

Your KB is most likely OK and the stock tune that comes with the KB along with a 3" or 3 1/4" upper will get you into the mid to low 11 sec range provided your 60' times are 1.7 or lower.

I ran 11.17 @ 136mph with a street tune,93 oct pump gas and Torco,M&H DR,with a 1.8 60' then changing nothing but the fr shocks and slicks I and ran a 10.252 @139.7mph with a 60' time of 1.54.......

 

So you see,.... you and your 60' times can make or bust your track times........also....if you are looking for fast et's you cant shift at low rpm's..(5900 to 6250)...fast times only come when you stick your neck out and push the shift points up over the 6500rpm mark where this Eng puts the big tq and hp out.

 

BB.

[Secondo]

Unless you're running your car in the Colorado rockies at sky high altitude, if you can't get out of the hole you'll never get to your car's best E/T potential. The magazines got 12.8 bone stock and 12.4 with better tires. Check your 60' times, they should be around 2 secs with the stock tires.

[kharper]

Unless you're running your car in the Colorado rockies at sky high altitude, if you can't get out of the hole you'll never get to your car's best E/T potential. The magazines got 12.8 bone stock and 12.4 with better tires. Check your 60' times, they should be around 2 secs with the stock tires.

 

On Stock tires the 60's are 2.3, the car spins through three gears and I am not even dumping the clutch (so I have to back off a little to obtain some traction). Our local track is not the greatest, and with street tires it feels like driving on slightly damp roads. Again this was a Open track night and they do zero prep and traction compound.

 

All the new toys will be installed and ready for next Tuesdays open track night.... I should be able to hook up better with the wheel hop gone and M/T's.

[kharper]

Not to be pompus or a jerk, But you need to learn to drive this car....It is a hard car to track competitively and or fast. When I say fast I am talking 11.1 @135 or better.

Your KB is most likely OK and the stock tune that comes with the KB along with a 3" or 3 1/4" upper will get you into the mid to low 11 sec range provided your 60' times are 1.7 or lower.

I ran 11.17 @ 136mph with a street tune,93 oct pump gas and Torco,M&H DR,with a 1.8 60' then changing nothing but the fr shocks and slicks I and ran a 10.252 @139.7mph with a 60' time of 1.54.......

 

So you see,.... you and your 60' times can make or bust your track times........also....if you are looking for fast et's you cant shift at low rpm's..(5900 to 6250)...fast times only come when you stick your neck out and push the shift points up over the 6500rpm mark where this Eng puts the big tq and hp out.

 

BB.

 

 

Lol, No offense taken. I am by no means a professional driver, but I have been driving Mustangs for the last 17 years (Owned one since I pretty well had my license :P). I am far from a track guy and I have only been there about a half dozen times, so I have to get more practice I guess

 

Looking at your notes, you shaved a second going from DR to a slick and gained 4 MPH. So you can get more MPH with a better tire...

 

I will defiantly make an update next week to see if there is a difference

[LuckySnake]

Might want to hold off on the FRPP Girdle while using the Fays2, I had about .100" clearance between the two parts and decided better to have the Watts Link than the girdle, didn't want to risk damaging the girdle or worse.

Fays2 is an awesome improvement.

[skyhighsd]

Lol, No offense taken. I am by no means a professional driver, but I have been driving Mustangs for the last 17 years (Owned one since I pretty well had my license :P). I am far from a track guy and I have only been there about a half dozen times, so I have to get more practice I guess

 

Looking at your notes, you shaved a second going from DR to a slick and gained 4 MPH. So you can get more MPH with a better tire...

 

I will defiantly make an update next week to see if there is a difference

 

Before you waste time at the track you really should do some of the supporting mods that your car needs. UCA/LCA's and a drive shaft to say the least, you get your car to hook and I would willing to bet that stock DS is not going to like you much! Good luck with everthing you have a lot faster car in your hands than you think, once you get the driving part down (no offense)

[kharper]

Before you waste time at the track you really should do some of the supporting mods that your car needs. UCA/LCA's and a drive shaft to say the least, you get your car to hook and I would willing to bet that stock DS is not going to like you much! Good luck with everthing you have a lot faster car in your hands than you think, once you get the driving part down (no offense)

 

 

Silly :P

 

This is from my first post, these mods are being added as we speak, the car went in the the shop to have the following added

 

- FR3 Suspension (caster and camber plates for front struts)

- Line Lock

- 373 gears

- 1 piece drive shaft

- Fays2 Watts Link

- Stinger Exhaust

- Front and Rear driveshaft loops

- Upper and lower control arms (LCA relocation brackets since the suspension will lower the car)

- Differential Girdle

- C&R Heat exchange

- All 4 Nitto NT05 Tires and a Set of M/T Drag Radials II for the track

 

I have the mods underway

[kharper]

Might want to hold off on the FRPP Girdle while using the Fays2, I had about .100" clearance between the two parts and decided better to have the Watts Link than the girdle, didn't want to risk damaging the girdle or worse.

Fays2 is an awesome improvement.

 

 

Oh god do not say that... I have the low profile version... I hope you are referring to the regular version for the Ford Racing girdle.

 

I hope so, because yesterday afternoon, he installed the Gears, Girdle, Exhause, Drive Shaft and loops. He did not get to the Watts yet, but it would be a crappy time to reverse the cover.

[raymond_chase]

You for sure need some kind of drag radial. Because even if you factor in your 60' time you are still probably losing 1/2 a second or more due to tire spin when you shift. Even if you can't hear or feel it it's happening. If you listen on the video link of my car you can hear the tires squeal. It's losing time there even with the drag radial. This can affect your mile per hour as well as ET if it's bad enough.

 

I used 305/35/18 M/T ET Streets last year and this year I have 345/35/18 M/T ET Streets and with the new Whipple 2.9 traction sucks even with them. A drag radial is the only way to see the true potential of your car.

 

 

Steve, What a great couple of runs on video! Did you say 345's? How did you get those to fit?

[srk1959]

Steve, What a great couple of runs on video! Did you say 345's? How did you get those to fit?

 

 

Thanks for the compliment!

 

Yep 345's

 

I had Weldcraft wheels widen a set of stock wheels to 11". I had to modify my bump stop brackets ( some people just remove them) and take off the rear shock dust covers and that was it.

 

Street driving with them on hard cornering they rub sometimes just a bit in the wheel well. I think mostly when hitting a bump when cornering and the panhard rod pushes the rear end over. I installed a watts link late last fall and didn't see anymore rubbing but I didn't get very many miles on it before it snowed. So I will have to see how it goes this spring once I can put more miles on.

 

I think this year I will be going with 15" Bogarts and a drag radial. The extra side wall should help at the track. Even the 345's at any tire pressure that I tried didn't want to hook up that well.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

It was about 77 degrees. 60 foot was about 2.3 seconds (some wasted time there) so hopefully Better tires will fix that.

 

 

There's a problem right there.

 

77d is a decent temp for drags. What was your track temp? (Pyrometers are pretty cheap anymore).

 

Are you driving around the water box or are you doing a *good* burn-out and heating up the tires REAL WELL?

 

FWIW, the F1's like heat and HATE cold.

 

Pick up your 60' times and your ET will drop dramatically.

 

Rule of thumb:

Your ET is based on Torque.

Your MPH is based on HP.

 

But without traction, either one will be hard to achieve.

 

Before you try a set of drag tires try heating/burning the SH*T out of your current tires and see how they hook up when they get hot. You might be surprised.

 

 

 

Phill

[SlwSVT]

To the original poster,

 

What is your track elevation? 118 traps seems like you are up in the 5000' elevation range.