2009 Boss Mustang

[MustangFanatic]

Wow, guys. I am impressed (not as if you all need my compliments). Great, logical thoughts! What scares me is that corporations are rarely logical, and are driven by stockholder's rabid demands for short-term profits.

The only saving graces for these cars are the facts that:

1) The Mustang has been a great seller for Ford & the dealers;

2) Ford needs to develop a new motor;

3) These SE's have driven so much traffic, interest , and free press for Ford & the dealers that GM & DC are emulating this.

Lucky for us that logic works for the Mustang and Ford shareholders!!! B)

After re-thinking about all I have read/heard through various grapevines- I highly suspect that between SEMA and the Detroit show (I strongly suspect SEMA, and I won't comment why) we will see the announcement of the GT350 Shelby, an option upgrade for the upcoming Shelby GT. I suspect the Boss will be announced by SEMA or late spring of '07 as an '08. Bullett will be a tape/stripe/wheel package.

Logic dictates that Ford roll these out as the Camaro/Challenger aren't out yet, maximizing a return on this platform before they do. This also pre-emptively sucks up some of the competition's market, since those who recently bought these muscle cars won't be in the market for a Camaro/Challenger. When the "all new" platform for the Mustang rolls out, those who purchased the '05+ Mustangs will be preparing to purchase again. So, strategically, this makes sense. Let's hope Ford sees it this way too!

 

 

Chris, excellent summary and certainly on track with what I was thinking. I'll defer to your expert knowledge regarding the SEMA show (let's hope the Boss is officially introduced!!). I also believe the Bullitt will be a package on the GT similar to the GT/CS package. I do agree that Ford should maximize their advantage and try to lock up as much of the market as possible before the introduction of the Camaro and Challenge. Definitely the scenario you outlined makes both logical and business (read: profit) sense. I too hope that Ford sees it this way as well!! :happy feet:

[68fastback]

Good thoughts Crispy & Fanatic.

 

I will check SEMA for us -- I'm optimistic Ford will show at least one brand new SE, likely disguised as a one-off, but what they show at SEMA (if they do) will be very close to what production will be -- whatever it/they is/are. Especially this year -- the first in SEMA history where all three domestics have been honored with simultaneous feature exhibition areas -- something big has to be shown to keep attention away from the vaporware camaro and challenger. The GT500 was shown that way in 2004(!!), nameless but with a cobra on each side, closed engine compartment, and the floor plack treated it as if it was a Cobra concept or something. Dan Davis (head of Ford racing and engine development) was showing an 'incomplete prototype' of a 5.4L s/c'd engine with a blower in the valleyand a pre-cooler on top. Ford never did the s/c that way, but I bet if the hood was opened there would have been a s/c 5.4 in there.

 

Ford seems to label cars two different (subtle) ways at SEMA. While all are on Ford-logo paper in the same lucite holder on the same floor-stands, one usually shows the Ford logo at the bottom and usually gives vague engine specs. The other states an 'owner' (usually the fabricator), does not show a ford logo at the bottom, and usually give very specific HP/torque/feature info. From what I can tell the former are the real-deal-in-waiting and the latter are partner/concept 'testers' that try to garner insight on some aspect of something Ford is considering/doing.

 

We'll see if they're consistent this year -- who knows ...if I can figure out the pattern then the 'enemy' can too <lol>

 

I hope they don't kick me out if I roll around on the floor and try to get pics from the bottom ;-) Especially since it's a tripple-play featured manufacturer year, and the Ford GT has run it's cycle -- they have to show something really special, I think. Hmmmmm... ;-)

[carnut]

How about glueing your cell camera phone to your shoe. Stand around with your hands in your pocket and no one will suspect a thing.

[MustangFanatic]

Good thoughts Crispy & Fanatic.

 

I will check SEMA for us -- I'm optimistic Ford will show at least one brand new SE, likely disguised as a one-off, but what they show at SEMA (if they do) will be very close to what production will be -- whatever it/they is/are. Especially this year -- the first in SEMA history where all three domestics have been honored with simultaneous feature exhibition areas -- something big has to be shown to keep attention away from the vaporware camaro and challenger. The GT500 was shown that way in 2004(!!), nameless but with a cobra on each side, closed engine compartment, and the floor plack treated it as if it was a Cobra concept or something. Dan Davis (head of Ford racing and engine development) was showing an 'incomplete prototype' of a 5.4L s/c'd engine with a blower in the valleyand a pre-cooler on top. Ford never did the s/c that way, but I bet if the hood was opened there would have been a s/c 5.4 in there.

 

Ford seems to label cars two different (subtle) ways at SEMA. While all are on Ford-logo paper in the same lucite holder on the same floor-stands, one usually shows the Ford logo at the bottom and usually gives vague engine specs. The other states an 'owner' (usually the fabricator), does not show a ford logo at the bottom, and usually give very specific HP/torque/feature info. From what I can tell the former are the real-deal-in-waiting and the latter are partner/concept 'testers' that try to garner insight on some aspect of something Ford is considering/doing.

 

We'll see if they're consistent this year -- who knows ...if I can figure out the pattern then the 'enemy' can too <lol>

 

I hope they don't kick me out if I roll around on the floor and try to get pics from the bottom ;-) Especially since it's a tripple-play featured manufacturer year, and the Ford GT has run it's cycle -- they have to show something really special, I think. Hmmmmm... ;-)

 

 

We are counting on you Dan, bring us back some great pics!!

 

I would agree that we will see something there, albeit in disguise. Of course, I'm hoping for a 400 hp 5.0L Boss!!! :happy feet:

[68fastback]

How about glueing your cell camera phone to your shoe. Stand around with your hands in your pocket and no one will suspect a thing.

 

 

Yeah, that could come in handy for a lot of 'reconassiance'

[JETSOLVER]

Yeah, that could come in handy for a lot of 'reconassiance'

 

Might also get you arrested for being a "dirty mature man" :wacko: :hysterical2:I'm betting nothing big for us at SEMA and I'd hate to see an episode of "Rides" next year about how Ford decided on Oct. 7th 06 to hurry up and cobble together a non-running concept for Detroit 07. A leak might be good about now...if they have anything to leak. Anybody want to counter the hidden blur car from the early Bold Moves was just the Shelby GT? And we all thought it might be the Cobra or GR-1. And if Ford thinks thats enough to keep me buying high-performance from them, they are sadly mistaken...

[68fastback]

Might also get you arrested for being a "dirty mature man" :wacko: :hysterical2:I'm betting nothing big for us at SEMA and I'd hate to see an episode of "Rides" next year about how Ford decided on Oct. 7th 06 to hurry up and cobble together a non-running concept for Detroit 07. A leak might be good about now...if they have anything to leak. Anybody want to counter the hidden blur car from the early Bold Moves was just the Shelby GT? And we all thought it might be the Cobra or GR-1. And if Ford thinks thats enough to keep me buying high-performance from them, they are sadly mistaken...

 

 

Yeah, the models wear so little @ SEMA there's no shoe-cam needed.

 

Well I sure hope Ford surprises us -- Rob, can't have you feeling blue over the blue oval ...I guess they could just pull al the recent concepts together for the show, but that would be such a wasted of that showcase. Also hoping FRp might show a couple new crates -- I will be looking for anything that retrofits a 385 or FE-series with FI and full electronics. ;-)

 

Oh well, only a few weeks now. I guess we won't see Mark martin dropping buy -- Chevy bought him too! I hope Roush's driver-X show worked for them (actually the rookies have been doing well, but, geez, Martin is a Ford icon... sad.

 

I wish I had more time there -- I want to drive the off-road test track outside. Last year they has specially built rock-crawlers and an impressive course. It's hard to scrape the serface in a day.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

I talked with a High ranking Ford Person on Oct. 6th & he said to watch out for some "NEW" news at SEMA (Oct 31st - Nov. 3rd) regarding a motor called “BOSS 302” I asked if it was the old motors coming back or a new modular motor that had the Cubic inches bumped up?

 

His reply was simple…… just wait & see & that’s all I can say. So let the speculating begin if we get a new BOSS 302 Model to look forward to or just the old motor becoming available for purchase thru Ford Racing.

 

 

OH, one more thing he mentioned was Shinoda bought ALL the rights to the "BOSS" name? Hhmm?

[68fastback]

I talked with a High ranking Ford Person on Oct. 6th & he said to watch out for some "NEW" news at SEMA (Oct 31st - Nov. 3rd) regarding a motor called “BOSS 302” I asked if it was the old motors coming back or a new modular motor that had the Cubic inches bumped up?

 

His reply was simple…… just wait & see & that’s all I can say. So let the speculating begin if we get a new BOSS 302 Model to look forward to or just the old motor becoming available for purchase thru Ford Racing.

OH, one more thing he mentioned was Shinoda bought ALL the rights to the "BOSS" name? Hhmm?

 

 

That's great feedback, because Ford has stated to the trade press they plan to logo motors and they did TM a BOSS moniker back a few of months (around when GM TM'd 'LS-X'). But tieing BOSS and 302 as a motor is genuine insight since there was speculation all this talk was nerely that Ford might logo the rumored bigger truck V8 as 'the boss'. This news says that's not the case (or at least not the only case).

 

I sure hope the hood is open because I want to see the intake manifold in there ;-) ...aluminum version of 3-piece magnesium racer? ...or some new production hi-riser prototype? ...or?? I hope I can spot their "listener" or maybe dan davis will be there again -- he knows all (even if he can't say).

 

There is hope once again ;-)

[MustangFanatic]

I talked with a High ranking Ford Person on Oct. 6th & he said to watch out for some "NEW" news at SEMA (Oct 31st - Nov. 3rd) regarding a motor called “BOSS 302” I asked if it was the old motors coming back or a new modular motor that had the Cubic inches bumped up?

 

His reply was simple…… just wait & see & that’s all I can say. So let the speculating begin if we get a new BOSS 302 Model to look forward to or just the old motor becoming available for purchase thru Ford Racing.

OH, one more thing he mentioned was Shinoda bought ALL the rights to the "BOSS" name? Hhmm?

 

Great news for sure, thanks for the update!! My guess would be that a new "Boss 302" engine would have to be a new, mod motor based engine and not a recast of the original. Ford shut down production of their OHV engines several years ago and even sold the tooling I believe. Therefore, I seriously doubt they would be reintroducing the original Boss 302. This would verify the report issued by Robert on August 23rd concerning a new "niche" engine at the Romeo plant. My assumption would be that the rumored "niche" engine is indeed the Boss 302 being introduced at SEMA. Time will tell if my assumption is correct or something else

 

If I recall correctly, the settlement between Ford and the Shinoda family was that Shinoda retained the rights to "Shinoda Boss" but not simply "Boss".

 

As Dan said, there is hope again for a Boss 302 Mustang...I can't wait for SEMA!! :happy feet: :happy feet:

[68fastback]

Great news for sure, thanks for the update!! My guess would be that a new "Boss 302" engine would have to be a new, mod motor based engine and not a recast of the original. Ford shut down production of their OHV engines several years ago and even sold the tooling I believe. Therefore, I seriously doubt they would be reintroducing the original Boss 302. This would verify the report issued by Robert on August 23rd concerning a new "niche" engine at the Romeo plant. My assumption would be that the rumored "niche" engine is indeed the Boss 302 being introduced at SEMA. Time will tell if my assumption is correct or something else

 

If I recall correctly, the settlement between Ford and the Shinoda family was that Shinoda retained the rights to "Shinoda Boss" but not simply "Boss".

 

As Dan said, there is hope again for a Boss 302 Mustang...I can't wait for SEMA!! :happy feet: :happy feet:

 

 

Totally agree, Fanatic.... 5.0NA mod niche from Romeo :happy feet:

 

[crispy23c]

Wow. Can't wait!!!!! :happy feet: :wacko: :happy feet: :bandance:

[MustangFanatic]

Wow. Can't wait!!!!!

 

 

Me neither!!! :happy feet:

 

To take it one step further, let's hope if the Boss 302 engine does make it's debut at SEMA that a Boss 302 Mustang will be introduced at either the NYC or Detroit autoshows.

[68fastback]

Yeah, maybe a little early to show the car at SEMA, but you never know

 

On a slightly dif subject: I just got SEMA's pre show mag. Of course there's a bunch on the revival of the pony cars. And the big three sharing the featured slot ths year etc.

 

Article supporting the notion of dealer programs and accompanying the article discussing the feasability of warranties for dealer and customer applied mods (context is that the implied trend/direction is to cert with the mfgr presumeably like Roush/Roushchargerfor a 3/36 warrranty) and SEMA helping pilot such a program to see if it makes warranty/financial/liability (my read) sense on a full blown industry program for next year, is a photo in a showcase room at a Ford dealership showing a Paxton s/c display. In the showroom picture is a Ford mod (5.4?) DOHC with the blue crinkle-finish GT valve covers with a plished Paxton centrifugal s/c mounted on the front with separate side-mounted polished intercooler with all plumbing, and color coordinated in GT valve-cover blue accents, on the paxton pieces. Hmmmm....

 

My first reaction was the rumored SA 'CS8' (because the setup looks just like the CS6 at the Shelby museum in LV), then I thought GT350 ;-). But just the notion that the industry is pursuing the whole trend of packaged, warrantied, add-on firepower with SEMA means Ford will not be alone in the tight-coupling with partners like Roush in the near future (though this happened to be a Paxton-Ford display).

 

Me, I'll take a sweet NA motor.

 

 

...and in other news closer to our interests ;-)...

 

There was an article in ITO (Inside the Oval -- Ford's arms-length 'mouthpiece' mag) on the boy-racer and the evolved man-racer sequel (which, if it flies, will supposedly also be available for purchase from FRP but only to licensed race-drivers/teams -- even tho only one has been built as of July ITO), Dan Davis (Director, Ford Racing Technology) mentions how the boyracer caused several teams to to move from BMW and Porsche to Mustang as it dominated the series (clean sweep in mfgr, team and driver titles).

 

He notes that the boy-racer was merely the 'junior' program and it made 420 HP -- the Man racer makes 550 all-aluminum NA HP and includes a Multimatic sequential tranny, full-floating dif and better tires. While the boy racer dominated Grand Am so badly that it is sort of suspended until they can agree on rules changes (as of yesterday whowon.com has article that it'll be back at Mosport in une '07) Ford is now negotiating with [multiple] sanctioning bodies for a proper home where the Man-racer can compete.

 

Davis doesn't say specifically with whom, but earlier in the article he made refernece to the fact that the "man racer represents the reincarnation of the Trans-Am Mustang from the '70s, which was the most powerful showroom-looking pony car at the time." There's also mention by the author that the partnership betw Ford and Multimatic is paying solid dividends for both. <man, would I love to see an SCCA trans-am reincarnated!!>

 

If Ford puts the manracer into production (assuming a proper sanctioned home is agreed to) it would cost about $200K <gulp> Hmmm, in todays dollars, though, I figure that's a huge bargain for a serious team and likely far less than the equivalent of what Parnelli/George (Bud Moore racing??) invested in #15/16 in '69-'70.

 

Wonder when/if it will fly? I'll bet it's at SEMA!!

 

-Dan

[MustangFanatic]

Great thoughts and summary as always, Dan!! You and I are on the same page regarding a sweet high-revving NA motor, Ford has to "pony" up one for the Mustang pronto. I mean the S/C'd engines are nice but I want a hard running NA engine under the hood of my S197 Mustang.

 

I'd be willing to wager that some version of the man-racer/boy-racer will be visible at SEMA. I'd be curious as to whether Ford might drop the rumored Boss 302 "street" engine discussed earlier in one in an attempt to thinly disguise their intentions. Either way, I think we are in for some really good hardware from this SEMA show. :happy feet:

[68fastback]

Great thoughts and summary as always, Dan!! You and I are on the same page regarding a sweet high-revving NA motor, Ford has to "pony" up one for the Mustang pronto. I mean the S/C'd engines are nice but I want a hard running NA engine under the hood of my S197 Mustang.

 

I'd be willing to wager that some version of the man-racer/boy-racer will be visible at SEMA. I'd be curious as to whether Ford might drop the rumored Boss 302 "street" engine discussed earlier in one in an attempt to thinly disguise their intentions. Either way, I think we are in for some really good hardware from this SEMA show. :happy feet:

 

 

Yeah, exactly, Fanatic... that's sort of what I'm expecting (my earlier post re getting a pic of the intake maifold -- if it's a covert showing it might look like a one-off street-version of the manracer (which also has to be there); if overt, grabber orange with Boss 302 (or at least 5.0) emblems! I figure the Saleen PJ was the early-partner 'trial-baloon (like they needed to test the concept <lol> Ford is sooo conservative) and now they have to take the next logical step -- only question is how the [dis]guise it

 

I thought it very interesting that in the same SEMA pre-show mag, DCX is already running ads to the effect that if your pony car motor doesn't say "Hemi"it's just a 4-letter word! Clever.. but, that 4-letter word can only be BOSS!!!

 

Since they're nearly 2 years away from shipping , I figure that ad has to be targeted at 'intelligence' that DCX has that Ford will show the BOSS at SEMA... and that's consistent with Coldwater's G2 on this subject.

 

Oh, well, maybe just the ramblings of an old strategist run-amuck here <lol> if not,

[JETSOLVER]

You and I are on the same page regarding a sweet high-revving NA motor, Ford has to "pony" up one for the Mustang pronto. I mean the S/C'd engines are nice but I want a hard running NA engine under the hood of my S197 Mustang.

I'd be curious as to whether Ford might drop the rumored Boss 302 "street" engine discussed earlier in one in an attempt to thinly disguise their intentions.

 

 

 

 

 

Since they're nearly 2 years away from shipping , I figure that ad has to be targeted at 'intelligence' that DCX has that Ford will show the BOSS at SEMA... and that's consistent with Coldwater's G2 on this subject.

 

 

 

From a very good source," recently learned that Ford will be dropping a 6.2L 2v Boss into the 2011 Stang. Not sure if it's the GT that gets it or a SE, I'll post as more info trickles in. Al 2v/sohc "

Fourcamm330/SVTP/The New BOSS Unfortunately, its not going to happen until 2011

[68fastback]

From a very good source," recently learned that Ford will be dropping a 6.2L 2v Boss into the 2011 Stang. Not sure if it's the GT that gets it or a SE, I'll post as more info trickles in. Al 2v/sohc "

Fourcamm330/SVTP/The New BOSS Unfortunately, its not going to happen until 2011

 

 

Hmmm.... according to R&T, that's when Ford ships the 2012 ground-up re-engineered 'stang (the one that appears to have no rear seat)

 

Pony-car Wars 2.5!

[MustangFanatic]

From a very good source," recently learned that Ford will be dropping a 6.2L 2v Boss into the 2011 Stang. Not sure if it's the GT that gets it or a SE, I'll post as more info trickles in. Al 2v/sohc "

Fourcamm330/SVTP/The New BOSS Unfortunately, its not going to happen until 2011

 

 

I would hate to see Ford wait until 2011 to introduce the 6.2L Boss in the Mustang but I am encouraged to see Ford pressing ahead (albeit s-l-o-w-l-y) with a bigger NA engine for the 'Stang. I guess the message is stay tuned, the battle is just starting to heat up!!! :happy feet:

 

Woo hoo, 289 posts although 302 or 351 would be better!!!!

[68fastback]

Update: Fourcam (@SVT) posted today that it will be an ALLOY 2V sohc but that HP was undecided at this point.

:happy feet:

 

Just thinkin'... 6.2L is an interesting number since GM's small block is already up against some steep rod angles (for warrantied production engines) -- 6.2L is sort of the boundary 'gauntlet' for the big-block wars <lol>

 

 

<edit:> ...and don't forget, Fanatic, there's always 429 [posts] to aspire too I guess I'm gonna have to aspire in CCs ;-)

[crispy23c]

Great stuff.

Hey, JETSOLVER, I read that same post. I completely trust fc330 by the way. Very knowledgeable. You never know, they might intro the Boss in this style, and roll out that AL 6.2 for a big-block-style boss in the new 'stang as well. I don't think Ford will let Camaro/Challenger flood the market with alternates just to wait to drop 'the bomb' on them. Not much longer to see... :happy feet:

[68fastback]

Great stuff.

Hey, JETSOLVER, I read that same post. I completely trust fc330 by the way. Very knowledgeable. You never know, they might intro the Boss in this style, and roll out that AL 6.2 for a big-block-style boss in the new 'stang as well. I don't think Ford will let Camaro/Challenger flood the market with alternates just to wait to drop 'the bomb' on them. Not much longer to see... :happy feet:

 

Agree, Crispy... there's just too much 'staging' that has occurred to NOT do a Boss302 by CY'08 -- I'd like it earlier, but a nice NA screamer will be essential in that timeframe -- I hope ;-)

[MustangFanatic]

<edit:> ...and don't forget, Fanatic, there's always 429 [posts] to aspire too I guess I'm gonna have to aspire in CCs ;-)

 

 

 

I suppose I need to raise my expectations

 

Agree, Crispy... there's just too much 'staging' that has occurred to NOT do a Boss302 by CY'08 -- I'd like it earlier, but a nice NA screamer will be essential in that timeframe -- I hope ;-)

 

 

 

That's my belief as well, I believe Ford will unveil a Boss 302 in the near term using the current body style and bring out the "big" Boss when the Camaro and Challenger officially arrive on the scene.

[1970boss302]

Any news about a late 2008 model year Boss ??

[68fastback]

Any news about a late 2008 model year Boss ??

 

 

Certainly nothing official

 

If you read through the last page or two there's several posts with considerable logic why there's no way Ford could NOT do it, and there's some 'insider' info that says no Boss until 2011. However, there's some logic that says 2011 is a big-block BOSS motor (a Trademark Ford filed several months back and also based on a Ford public statement that they plan to 'brand' motors) in a fully re-engineered 2012 mustang. But that may have nothing to do with a CY'09/MY'08 Boss[302?] which would seem to be an undeniable market mandate ...and that Ford is just doing a great job at keeping the program under wraps. Rumors abound that GT500s are being used as test mules for the Boss and other 'insider' info that Ford has killed the 4.6 Boss program.

 

My personal feeling is that the 4.6 Boss program was never a plan program but rather just a development 'mule' program to see if they can hit the right power/emissions using a 'new' intake and an NA-cammed version of the Ford GT heads -- the two pieces missing in the present parts bin.

 

My personal opinion is Ford will (and must) do a Boss[302] for the '09 40th anniversary -- hoping to see some hints from SEMA LasVegas week after next -- though there is no hard information I'm aware of to support OR negate that statement.

 

Net: who the knows?!

 

-Dan

[MustangFanatic]

Certainly nothing official

 

If you read through the last page or two there's several posts with considerable logic why there's no way Ford could NOT do it, and there's some 'insider' info that says no Boss until 2011. However, there's some logic that says 2011 is a big-block BOSS motor (a Trademark Ford filed several months back and also based on a Ford public statement that they plan to 'brand' motors) in a fully re-engineered 2012 mustang. But that may have nothing to do with a CY'09/MY'08 Boss[302?] which would seem to be an undeniable market mandate ...and that Ford is just doing a great job at keeping the program under wraps. Rumors abound that GT500s are being used as test mules for the Boss and other 'insider' info that Ford has killed the 4.6 Boss program.

 

My personal feeling is that the 4.6 Boss program was never a plan program but rather just a development 'mule' program to see if they can hit the right power/emissions using a 'new' intake and an NA-cammed version of the Ford GT heads -- the two pieces missing in the present parts bin.

 

My personal opinion is Ford will (and must) do a Boss[302] for the '09 40th anniversary -- hoping to see some hints from SEMA LasVegas week after next -- though there is no hard information I'm aware of to support OR negate that statement.

 

Net: who the knows?!

 

-Dan

 

 

+2...certainly think you accurately captured the current thinking. Hopefully, we will have more than just theories to evaluate after the SEMA show!!

[1970boss302]

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Start off the new year with Mustang Boss release info

[68fastback]

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Start off the new year with Mustang Boss release info

 

 

Is that an inside tip 1970boss? ;-)

 

If so, that would mean there definately will be some [disguised] tidbit at SEMA and then a formal unveiling maybe at NAIAS in January?...

[MustangFanatic]

Is that an inside tip 1970boss? ;-)

 

If so, that would mean there definately will be some [disguised] tidbit at SEMA and then a formal unveiling maybe at NAIAS in January?...

 

 

God, I hope so, the suspense is killing me!!

[68fastback]

God, I hope so, the suspense is killing me!!

 

 

Sounds like a serious case of PBDS developing here <lol>