RUFDRAFT Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 By God, I love it when you write multi-syllabatically! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Wow, I get pulled into a 2 day strategy session at work and look what a debate I have missed!! :o Given the recent legislative rumblings and rising gas prices I think we are potentially on the verge of another "Death of the Musclecar Part II". If the current legislation makes it through Congress, CAFE standards will jump about 40% forcing Detroit to redirect all their R&D dollars to improving efficiency in the short term. Obviously, another easy fix is to stop selling high HP fuel guzzling cars and trucks..sounds eriely familiar for those of us that recall the '70's As others have pointed out, this doesn't mean the end of high performance cars and trucks but it does mean the end of factory produced hot rods. The easy way around the CAFE standards is another hot news topic, "outsourcing" - simply sending cars to aftermarket tuners for a infusion of HP. Personally, I would love to continue to see both factory hot rods like the GT500 AND aftermarket home runs like the PJ Saleen co-exist however I don't think the near term reality supports that position. My personal preference would be for the Boss to be a factory produced Ford product just like the original Boss 302. However, given the choice of not having a Boss Mustang or having a "Boss Mustang by Saleen", I'd take the later option. Recent rumor on other sites have indicated that the H/Boss 5.8L Mustang engine program is dead however there are also reports to the contrary so the end result is we still don't know. Bottom line here is as much as Ford may desire to produce factory engineered hot rods to meet public demand, our "friends" in Washington may see fit to yet again interupt our fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 The term, premature ejaculation comes to mind. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 <-Ruf ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0braFan Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Just my very humble 2c here. Aftermarket tuners = $$$$$. I want a Ford produced Boss - or Mach1 - or whatever. Ford's building the "Shelby 500" - Ford can build a Boss. Price a PJ or Roush or Saleen recently? These aren't Benz's - they're Mustangs. Aftermarket tuners will price the cars above the reach of the majority of Mustang owners. Are you saying that the 100% Ford-built GT500 is affordable, then? What gives? That argument for opposing aftermarket companies like Roush and Saleen doesn't stand up to the reality of the situation (although I agree with you in principle). It goesn't matter what Ford prices the cars at if the dealers won't cooperate. You can actually pick up a 427S for $40k on ebay, while the GT500 is still not going for under $55k (used). Ford needs a program that is outside the dealer network for die-hard enthusiasts who don't want to deal with the idiot dealerships who are incapable of seeing anything but dollar signs. Again, something Dodge fans enjoy, but not an option with Ford. Taken to the obvious next step, it stands to reason that Saleen and Roush are more than capable, have more than enough production capacity, the brand name respect, and relationship with Ford to make this happen. What if Ford continues to crank out 150-200k Mustangs per year while dropping all custom (i.e. costly) deviations from the assembly line. Deliver 500 whites to Saleen or Roush per week to produce the "SS", "R/T" and "SRT" type models that we're craving from Ford. Do we care who tweaked them? These Mustangs are thoroughbreds, born and raised in the USA, but trained in a boarding school to run hard and fast. It doesn't affect legitimacy. Take a look at where the KR came from. Early this year, S-A posted on their web site a new package for GT500 owners called "40th Anniversary". For around $12k, drop off your GT500, and in about a week, it is dramatically changed into a 540-hp custom with the much-envied dash and engine plaques. Well, Ford obviously got wind of this, and hurriedly contacted S-A about a deal. Presto, we have the 2008 KR. It's just a matter of time. People are already irritated with the GT500 program and it is becoming tiresome. I would see it either as a great opportunity to buy one at the realistic sub-50k price range, or as an opportunity for a new Saleen-built Boss to be commissioned by Ford, and a Roush-built Mach1. Both are somewhat dependent upon the GT500 falling out of favor, don't you think? Ford is in love with Shelby right now. Let it wane, and the options open up quite a bit. The Boss would have compression and revs, while the Mach1 would get boost. Let the bench racing begin!!! Shoot, that would be cool. I don't give a crap who builds 'em. And let's not forget the historical perspective, that this would play out the way it did in 69-70, when the decline of Shelby led to the Boss and Mach1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Ruf, while you may find this talk "premature", our legislators in Washington are moving ahead with revisions to CAFE regulations that will effect the automobiles we drive for the next 20+ years. http://www.sema.org/Main/ArticleDetail.aspx?contentID=57599 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Wow, I get pulled into a 2 day strategy session at work and look what a debate I have missed!! :o Given the recent legislative rumblings and rising gas prices I think we are potentially on the verge of another "Death of the Musclecar Part II". If the current legislation makes it through Congress, CAFE standards will jump about 40% forcing Detroit to redirect all their R&D dollars to improving efficiency in the short term. Obviously, another easy fix is to stop selling high HP fuel guzzling cars and trucks..sounds eriely familiar for those of us that recall the '70's As others have pointed out, this doesn't mean the end of high performance cars and trucks but it does mean the end of factory produced hot rods. The easy way around the CAFE standards is another hot news topic, "outsourcing" - simply sending cars to aftermarket tuners for a infusion of HP. Personally, I would love to continue to see both factory hot rods like the GT500 AND aftermarket home runs like the PJ Saleen co-exist however I don't think the near term reality supports that position. My personal preference would be for the Boss to be a factory produced Ford product just like the original Boss 302. However, given the choice of not having a Boss Mustang or having a "Boss Mustang by Saleen", I'd take the later option. Recent rumor on other sites have indicated that the H/Boss 5.8L Mustang engine program is dead however there are also reports to the contrary so the end result is we still don't know. Bottom line here is as much as Ford may desire to produce factory engineered hot rods to meet public demand, our "friends" in Washington may see fit to yet again interupt our fun... I have it on good authority that the H/Boss engine program is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 I have it on good authority that the H/Boss engine program is dead. Not everyone agrees with that position, there are too many signs that support the eventual launch of the H/Boss engine. http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showp...p;postcount=514 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0braFan Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 I have it on good authority that the H/Boss engine program is dead. That is very possible! Maybe Mulally didn't agree with Fields' move to bring back the H/Boss. But haven't we already agreed that Ford cannot survive without a new engine capable of cylinder deactivation and other efficiency features lacking in the Mod? It just wouldn't surprise me. Ford needs to stop talking, and start doing. When all kinds of rumors keep coming out of Detroit, then it's a sign that marketing is running the show rather than engineering. But if not the H/Boss, Ford must be designing some kind of new engine. It just can't compete with Toyota and GM with the current engine lineup, which is already at least 3 years behind the technology in rival engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 If I'm around in 20 years, I'll be in diapers. Sad. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 That is very possible! Maybe Mulally didn't agree with Fields' move to bring back the H/Boss. But haven't we already agreed that Ford cannot survive without a new engine capable of cylinder deactivation and other efficiency features lacking in the Mod? It just wouldn't surprise me. Ford needs to stop talking, and start doing. When all kinds of rumors keep coming out of Detroit, then it's a sign that marketing is running the show rather than engineering. But if not the H/Boss, Ford must be designing some kind of new engine. It just can't compete with Toyota and GM with the current engine lineup, which is already at least 3 years behind the technology in rival engines. +2...well stated CobraFan. If Ford doesn't introduce a new V8 engine family compatiable with all the current tecnnology very soon, they are in serious trouble - talk is cheap, time for some V8 action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Not everyone agrees with that position, there are too many signs that support the eventual launch of the H/Boss engine. http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showp...p;postcount=514 I thought they launch in the trucks this fall! Stuart, did you mean in the mustang? I have to admit, Ford is doing an admirable job of keeping the "smoke on the water" and that's what I'd expect with competition coming along -- especially if the 'refresh' is MY'10. I think there's a lot more goodies coming in the plan unless everyones plans get crunched by legislative overzealousness ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Gotta keep um guessin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 That is very possible! Maybe Mulally didn't agree with Fields' move to bring back the H/Boss. But haven't we already agreed that Ford cannot survive without a new engine capable of cylinder deactivation and other efficiency features lacking in the Mod? It just wouldn't surprise me. Ford needs to stop talking, and start doing. When all kinds of rumors keep coming out of Detroit, then it's a sign that marketing is running the show rather than engineering. But if not the H/Boss, Ford must be designing some kind of new engine. It just can't compete with Toyota and GM with the current engine lineup, which is already at least 3 years behind the technology in rival engines. I concur, Which technology; switching, deac, etc. Whatever, just get on with it Ford, you're way behind.... That's one reason the Z06's fuel #'s are so good and why we get nailed with GGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I thought they launch in the trucks this fall! Stuart, did you mean in the mustang? I have to admit, Ford is doing an admirable job of keeping the "smoke on the water" and that's what I'd expect with competition coming along -- especially if the 'refresh' is MY'10. I think there's a lot more goodies coming in the plan unless everyones plans get crunched by legislative overzealousness ;-) Dan, yes, the mustang engine. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0braFan Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I just wanted to say, I enjoy this web site to the exclusion of most others, and support it by clicking on all of the advertising links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I just wanted to say, I enjoy this web site to the exclusion of most others, and support it by clicking on all of the advertising links. Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 ...the Z06 is also very light and has that silly 1-4 shift servo -- that was done just to look good in the EPA tests. I think the H/Boss or whatever Ford calls it will need VVT/VCT, common-rail DI, and DoD. With some clever packaging like on the 3.5V6, even a DOHC H/Boss could be substantially more compact than the modular DOHC design, imo. Ford did Register "Boss" as a trademark last summer (if I recall) and, shortly thereafter, Ford media released a formal corporate announcement to the effect that they were planning an engine branding campaign, but I've not heard a word on it since. Will be interesting to see if the new truck motor is the target for the branding 'hoopla' ...and what they might call it?! --- <edit:> re mustang motor ..thanks, Stewart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Despite some of the recent rumors, I still believe Ford will install the H/Boss engine in the Mustang for the sole reason of economics. Ford isn't in the financial position to carry more than one line of V8 engines for their cars and trucks. Once the H/Boss engine debuts, it may take several model years before Ford phases out the Mod motors but it will happen. As Dan and others have pointed out, the Mod Motor needs serious updating to be competitive and Ford doesn't have the cash to invest in such a revision. At the end of the day it is the smart move from a manufacturing and tooling position as well as streamlining the cost structure to have one line of V8 engines with displacement flexibility to allow the same basic engine to be used in a wide variety of platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 ...the Z06 is also very light and has that silly 1-4 shift servo -- that was done just to look good in the EPA tests.I think the H/Boss or whatever Ford calls it will need VVT/VCT, common-rail DI, and DoD. With some clever packaging like on the 3.5V6, even a DOHC H/Boss could be substantially more compact than the modular DOHC design, imo. Ford did Register "Boss" as a trademark last summer (if I recall) and, shortly thereafter, Ford media released a formal corporate announcement to the effect that they were planning an engine branding campaign, but I've not heard a word on it since. Will be interesting to see if the new truck motor is the target for the branding 'hoopla' ...and what they might call it?! --- <edit:> re mustang motor ..thanks, Stewart... Dan, I concur. Is it H/Boss or an even better design? Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970boss302 Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Dan, I concur. Is it H/Boss or an even better design? Stuart I have my name on a list for the Boss Mustang wht ever it is . Hope Ford delivers a Boss and don't let us down. Looks like the Gas costs again may kill the muscle cars. But if I was Ford I would take the new 3.5 V6 and supercharge it and put it in the Boss. Performance and economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Ford already has test mule versions of a sick twin-turbo 3.5L V6 and it would certainly make for a killer Mustang package. However, for me, a Boss Mustang MUST be V8 powered. I'd love to see Ford offer the TT 3.5L V6 in a Mustang, just don't call it a Boss Mustang - GT350 maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0braFan Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Ford already has test mule versions of a sick twin-turbo 3.5L V6 and it would certainly make for a killer Mustang package. However, for me, a Boss Mustang MUST be V8 powered. I'd love to see Ford offer the TT 3.5L V6 in a Mustang, just don't call it a Boss Mustang - GT350 maybe? A Ford survey a few months ago listed it as a possible engine upgrade for the GT for $1000. I'm not sure how Ford would manage a twin-turbo setup for such a low cost. In my response, I asked them to just stick with the new 370HP V8 for the GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970boss302 Posted June 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 A Ford survey a few months ago listed it as a possible engine upgrade for the GT for $1000. I'm not sure how Ford would manage a twin-turbo setup for such a low cost. In my response, I asked them to just stick with the new 370HP V8 for the GT. How much horsepower would a 3.5 V6 with a supercharger in put out ?? It maybe the way to go with gas prices and goverment gas mileage rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I feel sorry for my grandsons. They'll be driving golf carts. Very sad. I need to go out for a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0braFan Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 How much horsepower would a 3.5 V6 with a supercharger in put out ?? It maybe the way to go with gas prices and goverment gas mileage rules. Good question. Just take a look at the Shelby CS6, packed with a Paxton for upwards of 350 rated HP for a good example. Unfortunately, it would cost at least $4000. But if you do something like this with the new 3.5L, it might be feasible if the GT is considerably more expensive. I would love to see Ford make it an option. That would tempt a lot of buyers to choose the V6 rather than a GT and help with CAFE problems. Personally, though, I would miss the torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I have my name on a list for the Boss Mustang wht ever it is . Hope Ford delivers a Boss and don't let us down. Looks like the Gas costs again may kill the muscle cars. But if I was Ford I would take the new 3.5 V6 and supercharge it and put it in the Boss. Performance and economy. I would almost bet that will be the GT350. My guess is the CS6 was supposed to be a GT350 before Shelby cut the deal with Ford. Just a hunch, but I could see Ford not wanting to pump up the 4.0V6 on the eve of the intro (back then) of the 3.5V6 (a vastly superior motor, imo). So, when the 3.5V6 goes into the mustang (on refresh?), the right base for a sweet supercharged V6 GT350 is in place. Just a theory, but I would not be surprised ;-) <edit:> CobraFan... just saw your post above -- I think we're on the same page. I doubt Ford would cut the GT since I'd bet the GT350 (if there is one) would be an SA tweak ....would make sense, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Looky here what Ford Media released to day to promo the confluence of SAAC #32 and SVToA in Utah weekend after July 4th!!! If that's not the Boss development mule I'll eat something indigestable Anyone and everyone who goes to this amazing event has to P_L_E_A_S_E find out everything you can on this SVT mule. Take pictures underneath when no one's looking! Under the engine! Under the IRSrear-suspension! If they open the hood: modular? alloy? How many valves :shades: Help!!! What's #97 anyway? ...tho if you turn it upside down it's sort of #16 ;-) Ok, whose going to be there????? What's your cell #????? What room will you be staying in at the Little America Hotel & Towers????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Looky here what Ford Media released to day to promo the confluence of SAAC #32 and SVToA in Utah weekend after July 4th!!! If that's not the Boss development mule I'll eat something indigestable Anyone and everyone who goes to this amazing event has to P_L_E_A_S_E find out everything you can on this SVT mule. Take pictures underneath when no one's looking! Under the engine! Under the IRSrear-suspension! If they open the hood: modular? alloy? How many valves :shades: Help!!! What's #97 anyway? ...tho if you turn it upside down it's sort of #16 ;-) Ok, whose going to be there????? What's your cell #????? What room will you be staying in at the Little America Hotel & Towers????? Great find Dan!!! I'd love to know what's under the hood of that baby!!! I'm hoping 5.0 liters of blue oval muscle packing 400+ HP!!! :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: And let me add, to anyone who is attending, if you need anyone to carry your bags, I'm definitely available :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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