2009 Boss Mustang

[mad103]

It will definitely be fun, just don't know if I can stand to wait, the suspense is killing me!!

 

 

 

If the suspense does kill you....can I have your mustang? :happy feet: Kidding!

[MustangFanatic]

If the suspense does kill you....can I have your mustang? :happy feet: Kidding!

 

 

 

That was classic!!

[MustangFanatic]

Permit me a moment of indlugence, Crispy posted this thread in the Shelby GT-350 section and it led me to this thought:

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/forums/inde...amp;#entry87711

 

What if Ford were showcasing both an engine and a car model at the Detroit Show with the Interceptor and the MKR but not necessarily the combination of the two. The intent being that Ford wanted to roll out the design concepts for the Interceptor and MKR knowing full well that the engines showcased therein would not be the likely production engines if either model made it to market. The engines shown in the concepts were indeed already destined for other models: the twin-turbo V6 for the GT-350 and the 5.0L Cammer for the Boss 302. While it might be possible that the top of the line production MKR might use the twin-turbo V6, it would be highly unlikely that the Cammer would show up under the production hood of the Interceptor. The likely candidates for a production version of the Interceptor would be a 3.5L V6 in the "base" car and a Boss (aka Hurricane) V8 engine for the up-scale performance model to compete with the 'Hemi Charger crowd.

 

I know I'm probably seriously off my meds with this one but I thought it was at least worth sharing, just be kind when responding...

[crispy23c]

GEEZ, MustangFanatic.....you think like I do!

Maybe we have the same doctor!

Yeah, I think I might have to show up to the NYC show this spring.....just in case...

[MustangFanatic]

GEEZ, MustangFanatic.....you think like I do!

Maybe we have the same doctor!

Yeah, I think I might have to show up to the NYC show this spring.....just in case...

 

 

Whew, glad I'm not alone!! I'd love to see the Cammer in the Boss 302 but given all the latest rumors, that doesn't appear to be the case

[1970boss302]

java script:emoticon(':hyper:', 'smid_11')

:hyper:

 

The latest web rumor is that the Mstang Boss will have the Shelby GT500

 

Motor with out the blower?? Who knows what the final Boss Mustang will

 

have as a motor?? The only thing Ford has to worry about is screwing up

 

the BOSS 302 legend and then losing sales to those people in the 40 - 50

 

years old age group looking for a return of the BOSS 302 and no other car.

 

Don't scew it up Ford or it may cost you a lot of sales.

[Son of GT]

IMO, I truly believe that the Boss will get the new modular cammer 302 with about 400 horsepower. Why do I believe that? Logic and because the car is called a Boss 302, not a Boss 5.4, 5.8 or anything else. Unless Ford plans to release it as a Boss 351, I don't see them installing the 5.8 block into this car.

 

I also believe that it will be the Cammer 302 because of the Saleen PJ 302 that is now being sold. Saleen is only making 500 of those cars? Why only 500? Because Ford does not want another 302 powered Mustang diluting the sales of their upcoming 302 powered Mustang. The only way Saleen could have installed the cammer into the PJ was because Ford did all of the emmision certifications for that car/engine combo, and emmision certifications cost upwards of $100,000 per car/engine combo. Sure, Saleen could have done the certifications themselves, but to spend that kind of money just to certify 500 cars does not make financial sense, does it?

 

I also believe that the cammer will get Aluminum heads too, beacuse the original intent of the Boss 302 was for road racing and you need a light front end for that kind of racing. If Ford intends to mimic allot of the atributes that the original Boss had, then odds are it will get Aluminum heads too.

 

JUST MY LOGICAL OPINION.

[MustangFanatic]

IMO, I truly believe that the Boss will get the new modular cammer 302 with about 400 horsepower. Why do I believe that? Logic and because the car is called a Boss 302, not a Boss 5.4, 5.8 or anything else. Unless Ford plans to release it as a Boss 351, I don't see them installing the 5.8 block into this car.

 

I also believe that it will be the Cammer 302 because of the Saleen PJ 302 that is now being sold. Saleen is only making 500 of those cars? Why only 500? Because Ford does not want another 302 powered Mustang diluting the sales of their upcoming 302 powered Mustang. The only way Saleen could have installed the cammer into the PJ was because Ford did all of the emmision certifications for that car/engine combo, and emmision certifications cost upwards of $100,000 per car/engine combo. Sure, Saleen could have done the certifications themselves, but to spend that kind of money just to certify 500 cars does not make financial sense, does it?

 

I also believe that the cammer will get Aluminum heads too, beacuse the original intent of the Boss 302 was for road racing and you need a light front end for that kind of racing. If Ford intends to mimic allot of the atributes that the original Boss had, then odds are it will get Aluminum heads too.

 

JUST MY LOGICAL OPINION.

 

 

Son of GT, I really do love your logic and I certainly hope it holds true. :happy feet: I think there will be at least two Boss models produced in different years - a Boss 302 first and then a Boss 351 when a 5.8L version of the upcoming Hurricane/Boss engine is available.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that the PJ Saleen uses a true Cammer engine but a stroked version of the current 4.6L 3V engine. I also don't believe the Saleen's engine is using anything more exotic than the 3V heads. If that is indeed the case, then Saleen's accomplishments with their 5.0L is even more impressive. As you stated, I'm sure Ford assisted with the certification costs of the PJ's engine making it much easier to use that engine in an upcoming Boss. The biggest drawback to the PJ engine over the Cammer is that the Cammer is a true over-square design making it much more rev friendly.

[Son of GT]

Son of GT, I really do love your logic and I certainly hope it holds true. :happy feet: I think there will be at least two Boss models produced in different years - a Boss 302 first and then a Boss 351 when a 5.8L version of the upcoming Hurricane/Boss engine is available.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that the PJ Saleen uses a true Cammer engine but a stroked version of the current 4.6L 3V engine. I also don't believe the Saleen's engine is using anything more exotic than the 3V heads. If that is indeed the case, then Saleen's accomplishments with their 5.0L is even more impressive. As you stated, I'm sure Ford assisted with the certification costs of the PJ's engine making it much easier to use that engine in an upcoming Boss. The biggest drawback to the PJ engine over the Cammer is that the Cammer is a true over-square design making it much more rev friendly.

 

Hmmm, I swear I thought I saw the Cammer engine in the PJS that was at SEMA. But even it if it isn't a cammer engine and just a stroked 3V 4.6, then that would still bode well for the Boss getting the Cammer. It goes back to what I was saying before. Financially it makes no sense to R&D an engine unless you intend to make a bunch of those engine's and use them in production vehicles. Millions of dollars spent just to make a $15,000 crate engine? I just can't imagine it.

 

That Cammer engine has been built for something. Mark my words, something sweet and hot is going to get that engine, and I just think it's going to be the Boss 302. It's just a natural fit for the car's badging, it's legacy and it's heritage. It would also be the best vehicle to introduce that engine to the general public. Hell, Ford owes that to the late, great Larry Shinoda, the father of the Boss.

 

But I could swear that the PJS at SEMA had the Cammer. I need to check into that.

[Chuckdoc]

Hmmm, I swear I thought I saw the Cammer engine in the PJS that was at SEMA. But even it if it isn't a cammer engine and just a stroked 3V 4.6, then that would still bode well for the Boss getting the Cammer. It goes back to what I was saying before. Financially it makes no sense to R&D an engine unless you intend to make a bunch of those engine's and use them in production vehicles. Millions of dollars spent just to make a $15,000 crate engine? I just can't imagine it.

 

That Cammer engine has been built for something. Mark my words, something sweet and hot is going to get that engine, and I just think it's going to be the Boss 302. It's just a natural fit for the car's badging, it's legacy and it's heritage. It would also be the best vehicle to introduce that engine to the general public. Hell, Ford owes that to the late, great Larry Shinoda, the father of the Boss.

 

But I could swear that the PJS at SEMA had the Cammer. I need to check into that.

 

 

 

I own a PJ Saleen #57 of 500 and the Saleen motor is stroked to 302. It does have forged internals, higher compression, upgraded valvetrain and cams, higher redline, aluminum flywheel, pulleys, etc... It's not the 'cammer' or any of the new offerings in the making from Ford.

 

Cheers,

 

Chuck

 

 

[MustangFanatic]

That Cammer engine has been built for something. Mark my words, something sweet and hot is going to get that engine, and I just think it's going to be the Boss 302. It's just a natural fit for the car's badging, it's legacy and it's heritage. It would also be the best vehicle to introduce that engine to the general public. Hell, Ford owes that to the late, great Larry Shinoda, the father of the Boss.

 

 

Son of GT, I sure like your logic and hope that indeed the Cammer is destined for a Boss 302 Mustang!! I'd give anything to have an animal like that in my garage!!

 

Chuck, BEAUTIFUL PJ!! I love your car!!

[Son of GT]

I own a PJ Saleen #57 of 500 and the Saleen motor is stroked to 302. It does have forged internals, higher compression, upgraded valvetrain and cams, higher redline, aluminum flywheel, pulleys, etc... It's not the 'cammer' or any of the new offerings in the making from Ford.

 

Cheers,

 

Chuck

 

Congrats on the car Chuck! Nice, very nice. I hope that you have a blast driving it!

SoGT

[Chuckdoc]

Congrats on the car Chuck! Nice, very nice. I hope that you have a blast driving it!

SoGT

 

 

Same with your Shelby!!

 

 

'Verts are awesome.

 

Chuck

[68fastback]

So, here you guys are!

 

I surehope the Boss is an alloy 5.0 DOHC. Untill recently there were some missing pieces. The fourcam330 info on it being the '500motor without s/c but with new NA intake migh be an intentional ford leak to test acceptability of 5.4 iron in Boss -- thumbs down from me.

 

But, if that's the case (a 'test'), then there's now a new intake that would work with a DOHC, yes? I know many felt it highly unlikely Ford would commercialize another producion variation of an alloy 5.0, but it's not out of the question, imo. Whether on the 5.0 spray-bore or stroked 4.6 alloy cobra, that new intake would work, no?

 

Maybe that 5.4 leak is the smokescreen .

 

--------

 

On the TT-MKR in the GT350... there's a lot of stars alligning on this. Consider these 'facts' (ok, indulge me a bit ;-)...

-Shelby does a 350HP Paxton'd V6 (CS6) Mustang in 2005 and is ready to take orders. Then inks contract with Ford who promptly kills that because they don't want to tout the old German 4.0 v6 as a 'GT350'. Shelby calls it the CS6 but is precluded from marketing their own cars under the Ford contract, so it becomes a kit and gets farmed out to Hillbank Motorsports for distribution.

-At SEMA '06 Ford shows "Rush" a 1,300lb racer with a Vortech tubo's version of the new 3.5 OHC V6 making 500HP running through a paddle-shifted 6-speed. It's built by Kirkland Autosports (if I recall) but wears a blue plackard (that seems to mean this was a Ford-directed project) Hmmmm....

-MKR concept gets shown with same engine, but tiny twin-turbos (to spool faster -- Rush was a single)

-According to SVToA Dan Davis has been working with Trans Am officials (who are hanging on by their nails the last 4 years doing only 2 races a year to not loose 41 year continuous run) and others for the right venue for the manracer and other appropriate venues for Ford cars (according to SVToA about 6 months ago). Hmm, maybe they'll be a v6 class too (I thnk there already is!)?

-AmyB mentions in a post (responding to a "will ShelbyAutos run the S-GT as a racer and prove itself the old fashioned way) that SA has been talking on the possibility of doing racing S-GTs, but it's backburner. If I were them I'd be thinking of GT350s too since the CS6s are now just kits.

 

Now, given that Ford/Shelby together need to differentiate the GT350 and Boss, maybe the GT350 get's the tt v6 and the Boss goes the way we all want it to.

 

Anyone have any other pieces/ideas that might play into this morass? ...'cause I can almost smell that there's stuff in the oven cooking on this

 

.

<edit: for typos>

[MustangFanatic]

Dan,

 

We are definitely on the same page here. I agree that the 5.4L information was likely an "intentional leak" whose purpose is not fully known but could be to "test the market" on the idea of a 5.4L Boss. As you stated, big thumbs down on that idea.

 

I would also agree that any new 4V intake can appear on any mod based V8 - including an all-alloy 5.0L engine, hopefully with the 5.0L spray-bore block.

 

Your theories on the TT-Cyclone V6 are VERY plausible as well. I'd personally love to see that engine offered in a light-weight Mustang - talk about a beast!! Unlike the Boss Mustangs, a Shelby could pull off a V6 and still be viable. The issue with a Boss Mustang is that the nameplates (Boss 302, 351 and 429) are tied directly to displacements. Offering a Boss Mustang with a displacement that doesn't fit those above will cause serious dissention in the Mustang ranks much more so than with any other model. IMHO if Ford can't offer a Boss 302 with the current mod engine then they should wait until either a 5.0L or 5.8L (most likely) version of the upcoming Hurricane/Boss engine series is available for performance duty in the Mustang.

 

Steve

[68fastback]

Yeah, I think Ford needs to wrestle with a fundamental question -- will they invest one more time in a hi-po NA mod.

 

Here's what I find puzzling: if we assume there's no way that Ford will let the Boss miss its 40th, then that says a MY'09 in '08. I though the H/Boss was initially going into the F-series as MY'08 later this year and in the mustang the year after -- which would be perfect timing.

 

But, the crux of all this may be what Camaro does (wha? <lol>) ...here's my logic: Right now Camaro's believed to be coming out in '09 ...with the LS2, but the actual content is never a given. If Ford believes the LS7 isn't going in until the second year, the Boss we crave would be the 5.0 modular. But that would still carry a substantial development cost (alloy/DOHC/NA/hi-HP) and I am not aware of Ford ever doing a model that only lasted 1 year (there's a discussion of this on another forum ...even the Edsel was kept for two!) or a Ford program where development was targeted to recoup in one year.

 

Now if Camaro comes out with both guns blazing (LS2 with LS7 at half-year -- since the LS7 fits the same mounts and dimentions as the LS2) Ford would have to port a hi-po H/Boss to the mustang before the MY'10 refresh which would require, besides the engine, development mods in the chassis only to get replaced by the refresh the following year -- another single-year dilemma they'd be loath to do.

 

Neither of these alternatives are likely acceptable to Ford fiancially: sinking more development in the mod for one year vs pulling-in the refresh and H/Boss one year -- the latter is definately not going to happen just for the Boss unless that has been Ford's plan all along, i.e. the slip of the refresh to MY'10 is a ruse to keep GM thinking Ford can't respond, thereby permitting GM to roll out the LS7 in Camaro's second year, not as job-2 in the first.

 

Of course, there's also the alternative of delaying the refresh to MY'11 -- no way in hell I can see that happening to accommodate the Boss or any other single model.

 

Unfortunately, our beloved Boss may be caught in this planning-alternatives crossfire, so to speak. What to do. If the refresh, and therefore the cost-effective opportunity to port the H/Boss to an accommodating chassis, stays in MY '10, Ford has to go with a production modular with a minimum of development (one year run, by definition) hence the 5.4 NA. If the refresh moves (back? ..or never slipped to '10 to begin with?) to MY'09 I think we'll see an H/Boss the first year.

 

So it may come down to whether the BOSS is viewed by HTT as having enough market/image clout to wag the whole mustang plan -- but that is more likely directly affected by GMs anticipated plan and how it's viewed by HTT/Ford.

 

My hunch is that the refresh slip to MY'10 might have been real at one point, but the timing of when that was leaked to the press (right after Camaro concept) and the timing of the original Hurricane program (right when Camaro rumors first surfaced) tells me that the Mustang refresh slip may be a carefully crafted myth. Also, Ford has likely got to move Mustang out of Flat Rock by then (either due to capacity or other product plans of Ford/Mazda) and Mazda wants the whole plant anyway.

 

One other slice: the slip is real and Ford does a mod-Boss variation (stroked 4.6, 5.0s-b, 5.4iron <yecch!>), followed by a H/Boss 351 and H/Boss 429 the following year. All the pieces would seem in place for that, and the historical sweetness is very powerfull, and both could run unmolested for at least two years.

 

So the MY'09 Boss would seem to be the dilemma -- you can almost hear the lame arguments [use dismissive fed-up parent voice here -->] <lol>... the original was iron and only made 290HP ...who says a 7K+rpm alloy motor is required ...if they want a road racer let them put on the FRPP stuff ...[add your favorite lame excuses here <lol>] .

 

Of course all of these statements are valid in a [misguided] context, but absolutely wrong spiritually -- in the bold-moves spirit of 1969 or today! ...Because it doesn't matter that the Boss was 290HP/iron/... -- what matters is that it was state of the art ...heads with 2"+ intakes, canted valves, racing block, revved like a mutha, car was lightened and (even with its long-legged road-gears) was almost as quick as a GT500 and responded to porting and headers like a duck to water when you pulled the rev limiter -- it was made to be modded (sound familiar?). I guess it didn't hurt that Parnelli and George were kicking butt in TransAm, but just like then, we might have to wait to 1970 (<ahem>2010) for the 'upgrade.'

 

I sure hope Dan Davis is successfull with not only the H/Boss racing parts planning, but lining up the right venues like a son-of-Trans-Am for the Boss(es) -- 'cause I've been aching for an excuse to get with some buddies, camp-out at Watkin's with a stop watch, and check out the "bog people" again ;-)

 

HTT, you know what you have to do -- but the tension of bold-moves vs easy-way-out is palpable ;-)

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Couple of things that occurred to me as I read through your post.

 

I agree that Ford would NEVER introduce an engine for a one year run. I also don't believe Ford would delay the refresh another year to MY '11 - maybe in the absence of competition but not given the impending relaunch of several key competitors. And as important as the Boss is to some of us, it isn't going to hold sway over the entire Mustang line. Having stated that, what are our options?

 

Personally, I'm not going to address a MY '09 5.4L Boss. This just isn't a viable option for me, doesn't fit the Boss heritage and would simply be a placeholder until the H/Boss engines were available (presumably in MY '10). Using this If Ford wants to use this engine package, roll it out in a Mach I with steep gears and a Drag Pak.

 

If (and I stress IF) the H/Boss engine is indeed available for the F-series in MY '08 and a performance variant is possible by MY '09, Ford could introduce the H/Boss engine in a special hi-po Boss Mustang model in MY 2009 with the existing body style. Basically, the Boss would "introduce" the H/Boss engine series to the Mustang in MY' 09 as the only Mustang in '09 offering that engine combination. From all accounts, the MY '10 refresh will be just that, a sheet metal refresh and not a total redesign. Therefore, the investment to install the H/Boss engine in the 2009 Mustang would be carried over into the restyled 2010 - '11 Mustang. The end result would two stylistically different Boss Mustangs in MY '09 and '10 but mechanically similar. Of course, the likely engine size for a H/Boss based Boss Mustang would be 5.8L given the rumored sizes for the upcoming H/Boss engine series.

 

Another possibility that exists would be for Ford to introduce a mod based Boss 302 in MY' 09 and carry-over that engine to the restyled 2010 Mustang yielding a 2 year Boss 302 run. Additionally, Ford could introduce either a Boss 351 or 429 in MY '10 using the H/Boss powerplant. The Boss 351/429 COULD then supplant the GT500 as the top-shelf SVT based Mustang since the GT500 will end it's production run by MY 2009.

[68fastback]

Yeah, Fanatic, I think we've gone thru the same thought process and came out the same holes (that's good!)... your last paragraph is the most likely scenario, imo, because, I suspect that the refresh already incorporates the mods to accommodate the H/Boss. Not that it could not be done before then, just that it's unlikely Ford would want to do those engineering spins (body and chassis) separately.

 

Of course, competition could force that -- and a good competitor will time their 'bomb' such that it's most costly and painfull to their competition... '09 for Ford.

 

The Mach-I you describe (5.4 steel NA) could be viewed as a "roll-your-own GT500" ...just add your own Whipple 3.3L -- "why pay for s/c'ing twice" <lol> It would be unusual -- kinda like the '00 Cobra-R following the '03/04 Cobra. It would almost be better offered as the Bullitt

 

I have to admit one thing: the new Ford is showing signs of becoming more resourceful again -- I like that. And I agree that they know better than to mess up the Boss. Maybe those rumored GT350 carbon-fiber fenders and front-clip will be in the parts bin by then ;-)

 

Btw, have you heard anything at all on a CGI (Carbon Graphite Impregnated) block for the 3.5TT MK-R block or any ford V8? I'd be really interested in that.

 

-Dan

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Yeah, Fanatic, I think we've gone thru the same thought process and came out the same holes (that's good!)... your last paragraph is the most likely scenario, imo, because, I suspect that the refresh already incorporates the mods to accommodate the H/Boss. Not that it could not be done before then, just that it's unlikely Ford would want to do those engineering spins (body and chassis) separately.

 

Of course, competition could force that -- and a good competitor will time their 'bomb' such that it's most costly and painfull to their competition... '09 for Ford.

 

The Mach-I you describe (5.4 steel NA) could be viewed as a "roll-your-own GT500" ...just add your own Whipple 3.3L -- "why pay for s/c'ing twice" <lol> It would be unusual -- kinda like the '00 Cobra-R following the '03/04 Cobra. It would almost be better offered as the Bullitt

 

I have to admit one thing: the new Ford is showing signs of becoming more resourceful again -- I like that. And I agree that they know better than to mess up the Boss. Maybe those rumored GT350 carbon-fiber fenders and front-clip will be in the parts bin by then ;-)

 

Btw, have you heard anything at all on a CGI (Carbon Graphite Impregnated) block for the 3.5TT MK-R block or any ford V8? I'd be really interested in that.

 

-Dan

 

 

Dan, at least we are on the same wavelength - everyone else should be very afraid!!

 

All kidding aside, I do agree the last scenario is the most likely if a Boss 302 is to be offered. Certainly I'm firmly in the Boss 302 camp, let's hope there are many others that are there with us, including Ford.

 

One other thought on a Mach I, Ford could produce a Mach I with an iron block 5.4L using a slightly heated-up version of the 3V Navigator engine. Using the 3V heads would make it more difficult to duplicate the GT500's engine although with a decent blower, 500 hp would still be easily achievable.

 

On the CGI block, I've heard nothing but that is a VERY interesting and exciting development. Anyone else know about this technology?

[NotASenator]

Ok, I've just read the whole thread, and what a ride I've missed out on by not being here.

 

I've been keeping up on the news on my own as best as I can, but I just want to clarify one point:

 

The Boss engine on FRPP right now is an upgraded Cammer, right? And the Hurricane/Boss engine rumored to get into later Boss's is still in development?

 

Just wanted to make sure I was clear on that.

[68fastback]

Ok, I've just read the whole thread, and what a ride I've missed out on by not being here.

 

I've been keeping up on the news on my own as best as I can, but I just want to clarify one point:

 

The Boss engine on FRPP right now is an upgraded Cammer, right? And the Hurricane/Boss engine rumored to get into later Boss's is still in development?

 

Just wanted to make sure I was clear on that.

 

 

Hi, and welcome to SU -- great site, good people ...hang out and enjoy! If you haven't already, you might want to check out the GT500 forum ... there's a new member intro thread there that makes a good first stop.

 

On the Boss FRPP crates, ...they are not modulars/cammers ...they're based on a newly upgraded and super-tough 4-bolt-mains racing version of the historic small-block Boss 302, but thoroughly improved. If you're a small-block Ford racer or buiding an early Ford/mustang or street-rod, these new crates are a godsend! But they are pushrod motors unrelated to the current modulars/cammers or the upcoming (we hope!) Hurricane/Boss.

 

At SEMA Galpin Autosports did a new S197 Boss 302 (car) based on one of the new Boss crate motors, but that's not where we believe the Boss (car) is headed. The Boss crates will never ship in a modern production car, imo -- they're a better FRPP small-block mousetrap.

 

The H/Boss that we believe to be in development is an all-new motor, with roughly the bore-spacing of the old FE-series (352/390/427/428) but surely incorporating state-of-the-art packaging and technology similar to the 3.5L V6 though not believed to be a family derivative. It's rumored to be slated to debut in the F-series in '08 at 6.2L, likely as a 2-valve SOHC initially, and then in the [boss?] Mustang at 5.8 or 6.2L (likely at MY'10 refresh), though it would seem 7.0L and DOHC variants (my speculation) have to be in the cards somehwere in the longer rollout.

 

Of course, all the H/Boss info is speculation a this point, but substantial pieces of it seem grounded in fairly well-sourced tidbits. We shall see ;-)

 

-Dan

[68fastback]

.

 

One other thought on a Mach I, Ford could produce a Mach I with an iron block 5.4L using a slightly heated-up version of the 3V Navigator engine. Using the 3V heads would make it more difficult to duplicate the GT500's engine although with a decent blower, 500 hp would still be easily achievable.

 

 

 

Good thought, Steve ...hadn't considered that at all. I guess that could make a lot of sense depending on niche-line capacity (or lack thereof). A Mach has to have HP, so if a 3V I suspect it would likely have to be an s/c motor then.

 

Of course, traditionally, the Mach was the poor-man's GT500 -- big torquer, straight-liner ...an s/c 3V could fit that bill and not encroach on the GT500, but if the Mach is primarily a go-straight poor-mans GT500, the 5.4 DOHC with forged pieces would make a nicer r-y-o foundation, imo. Maybe that's when Ford moves the Whipple to the GT500KR and fits the Mach with the former GT500 Rootes motor.

 

That would work from a lot of perspectives including optimizing parts re-use, contract extentions, existinging assembly practices, etc. ...and the 5.4 with the Whipple should be more of a known quantity by then. Essentially Ford could extend the GT500 as a Mach, thereby retaining the exclusivity (numbers-wise) of the GT500 production, and still give SA the KR bone to chew-on after the S-GT/40thmods [and GT350??] -- pretty much no invention or new parts required for a 'GT500' Mach and Whippled '500KR!

 

By then, maybe the GT will become a 5.4 3V at 350-365HP but as an alloy 4.6 stroker (iron in the GT would collpse sales, imo) and be a match for an LS1 Camaro "GT?"

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Good thought, Steve ...hadn't considered that at all. I guess that could make a lot of sense depending on niche-line capacity (or lack thereof). A Mach has to have HP, so if a 3V I suspect it would likely have to be an s/c motor then.

 

Of course, traditionally, the Mach was the poor-man's GT500 -- big torquer, straight-liner ...an s/c 3V could fit that bill and not encroach on the GT500, but if the Mach is primarily a go-straight poor-mans GT500, the 5.4 DOHC with forged pieces would make a nicer r-y-o foundation, imo. Maybe that's when Ford moves the Whipple to the GT500KR and fits the Mach with the former GT500 Rootes motor.

 

That would work from a lot of perspectives including optimizing parts re-use, contract extentions, existinging assembly practices, etc. ...and the 5.4 with the Whipple should be more of a known quantity by then. Essentially Ford could extend the GT500 as a Mach, thereby retaining the exclusivity (numbers-wise) of the GT500 production, and still give SA the KR bone to chew-on after the S-GT/40thmods [and GT350??] -- pretty much no invention or new parts required for a 'GT500' Mach and Whippled '500KR!

 

By then, maybe the GT will become a 5.4 3V at 350-365HP but as an alloy 4.6 stroker (iron in the GT would collpse sales, imo) and be a match for an LS1 Camaro "GT?"

 

.

 

 

Dan, excellent thoughts on the Mach I, that model is certainly all about big HP and straight line acceleration.

 

Regardless of model (Boss or Mach I), Ford is definitely at a cross roads. The Mustang faithful are clamouring for both to be produced and the largest unknown for each is the engine choice. I still feel Ford should offer a Boss 302 with a 5.0L version (preferably Cammer or secondarily a stroked 4.6L) of the mod engine family in MY '09 followed by a H/Boss powered Boss Mustang in either MY '10 or MY '11. Now the question, is Ford bold enough to do it? There's at least one enthusiast who is hoping the answer is a resounding yes!!

[NotASenator]

Hi, and welcome to SU -- great site, good people ...hang out and enjoy! If you haven't already, you might want to check out the GT500 forum ... there's a new member intro thread there that makes a good first stop.

 

 

 

Done and done!

 

On the Boss FRPP crates, ...they are not modulars/cammers ...they're based on a newly upgraded and super-tough 4-bolt-mains racing version of the historic small-block Boss 302, but thoroughly improved. If you're a small-block Ford racer or buiding an early Ford/mustang or street-rod, these new crates are a godsend! But they are pushrod motors unrelated to the current modulars/cammers or the upcoming (we hope!) Hurricane/Boss.

 

 

That's exactly what I wanted to know. My Mustang has the base concept of being a daily driver with some extra go-power, so it's an important distinction, and I need to be well aware of how much I'm willing to put into it.

 

At SEMA Galpin Autosports did a new S197 Boss 302 (car) based on one of the new Boss crate motors, but that's not where we believe the Boss (car) is headed. The Boss crates will never ship in a modern production car, imo -- they're a better FRPP small-block mousetrap.

 

 

I saw the GAS Boss here and it's actually a big influence on my design choices (as is the PJ, of course, what a beauty)

 

The H/Boss that we believe to be in development is an all-new motor, with roughly the bore-spacing of the old FE-series (352/390/427/428) but surely incorporating state-of-the-art packaging and technology similar to the 3.5L V6 though not believed to be a family derivative. It's rumored to be slated to debut in the F-series in '08 at 6.2L, likely as a 2-valve SOHC initially, and then in the [boss?] Mustang at 5.8 or 6.2L (likely at MY'10 refresh), though it would seem 7.0L and DOHC variants (my speculation) have to be in the cards somehwere in the longer rollout.

 

Of course, all the H/Boss info is speculation a this point, but substantial pieces of it seem grounded in fairly well-sourced tidbits. We shall see ;-)

 

-Dan

 

 

That's some great speculation and I would love to see Ford move in that direction. Considering how most of their line has not really fit in with the "Bold Moves" mantra, it would be a good step to do something even more memorable with their boldest of cars.

[NotASenator]

Has anyone seen this yet?

 

http://news.windingroad.com/trends/first-l...9-ford-mustang/

 

It's a test mule, but possible design cues for our redesigned Mustang.

[MustangFanatic]

Has anyone seen this yet?

 

http://news.windingroad.com/trends/first-l...9-ford-mustang/

 

It's a test mule, but possible design cues for our redesigned Mustang.

 

Thanks for posting, excellent find!! I had seen that earlier today. It would seem to be an engine test mule, 5.0L Cammer or 5.8L Boss There are likely some minor tweaks under all that camo but they would be just that minor. We'll have to stay tuned...things are starting to get interesting... :hyper:

[68fastback]

Has anyone seen this yet?

 

http://news.windingroad.com/trends/first-l...9-ford-mustang/

 

It's a test mule, but possible design cues for our redesigned Mustang.

 

Good find!!! I subscribe to Winding Road and hadn't noticed the that the 2009 refresh (that was widely believed to have slipped to '10) is still in '09!!! That's exactly what I was speculating to MustangFanatic last week -- that the 'slip' was likely a carefully leaked ruse ;-).

 

That's really important, imo, since Ford would not likely mod the chassis for the H/Boss until the refresh (logic in an above post) -- as opposed to doing the chassis mods on '09 and the refresh in '10. So this is great news if true -- and I think it is. It means the new Boss could debut with the 5.8L H/Boss 351!!!! It also means the originally rumored '08 Boss 302 modular could still be the plan.

 

Wonder if it will take until the '12 ground-up remake to uncork a 7.0 DOHC alloy H/Boss 429!!<lol> -- tie me down before I float away!! That would be the plan every bleeds-blue mustang fanatic would sell some body parts for! <lol>

 

I also believe the front end will look like the Giugiaro, but not the rear. The Giugiaro front looks custom tailored to the aerodynamics that a reinvogorated TransAm series will require -- and Dan Davis (head of Ford fracing) has been beating the bushes on exactly that subject it would seem from tidbits in SVToA and other comments associated with a likely pro-retail FR500GT manracer. Again, just my speculation, but the stars are startig to allign very cleanly, I think.

 

If I were GM, I'd plan to hit the ground with both barrels loaded. The camaro vert can wait, but they have to hit the ground in '08 (MY'09) with the LS2 as the hi-po offering, followed quickly with the LS7. The rags say that's the next year, but I thnk that's GM gamesmanship... I think the LS7 ships as job-2 also as a MY'09 (in early '09??) -- at least that would be my plan. So Ford has to have the refresh in '09 and the chassis mods for the H/Boss and aero updates for the TransAm. Anything less and HTT will have missed the mark -- I thnk he's very smart and resourcefull and is on his 'game!'

 

Refresh in '09 is outstanding news!!!

 

[68fastback]

Thanks for posting, excellent find!! I had seen that earlier today. It would seem to be an engine test mule, 5.0L Cammer or 5.8L Boss There are likely some minor tweaks under all that camo but they would be just that minor. We'll have to stay tuned...things are starting to get interesting... :hyper:

 

They certainly are! Looks like we were on the same trail again at the same time, my long-lost brother! <lol>

.

[mad103]

Has anyone seen this yet?

 

http://news.windingroad.com/trends/first-l...9-ford-mustang/

 

It's a test mule, but possible design cues for our redesigned Mustang.

 

 

Is everyone able to open this? It will not let me open it for some reason. Thanks

 

Alex

[MustangFanatic]

Good find!!! I subscribe to Winding Road and hadn't noticed the that the 2009 refresh (that was widely believed to have slipped to '10) is still in '09!!! That's exactly what I was speculating to MustangFanatic last week -- that the 'slip' was likely a carefully leaked ruse ;-).

 

That's really important, imo, since Ford would not likely mod the chassis for the H/Boss until the refresh (logic in an above post) -- as opposed to doing the chassis mods on '09 and the refresh in '10. So this is great news if true -- and I think it is. It means the new Boss could debut with the 5.8L H/Boss 351!!!! It also means the originally rumored '08 Boss 302 modular could still be the plan.

 

Wonder if it will take until the '12 ground-up remake to uncork a 7.0 DOHC alloy H/Boss 429!!<lol> -- tie me down before I float away!! That would be the plan every bleeds-blue mustang fanatic would sell some body parts for! <lol>

 

I also believe the front end will look like the Giugiaro, but not the rear. The Giugiaro front looks custom tailored to the aerodynamics that a reinvogorated TransAm series will require -- and Dan Davis (head of Ford fracing) has been beating the bushes on exactly that subject it would seem from tidbits in SVToA and other comments associated with a likely pro-retail FR500GT manracer. Again, just my speculation, but the stars are startig to allign very cleanly, I think.

 

If I were GM, I'd plan to hit the ground with both barrels loaded. The camaro vert can wait, but they have to hit the ground in '08 (MY'09) with the LS2 as the hi-po offering, followed quickly with the LS7. The rags say that's the next year, but I thnk that's GM gamesmanship... I think the LS7 ships as job-2 also as a MY'09 (in early '09??) -- at least that would be my plan. So Ford has to have the refresh in '09 and the chassis mods for the H/Boss and aero updates for the TransAm. Anything less and HTT will have missed the mark -- I thnk he's very smart and resourcefull and is on his 'game!'

 

Refresh in '09 is outstanding news!!!

 

 

I certainly hope the restyle news means that the revised Mustang will indeed bow in 2009, quite possibly with H/Boss power!!! That would be awesome, especially if Ford doesn't decide to offer a 5.0L DOHC alloy modular Boss 302. As I have stated before, if Ford can't (or won't) build a legitimate Boss 302, I would rather they hold on the Boss until a developed 5.8L H/Boss engine is ready prime time and build a Boss 351. No Boss Mustangs with a 5.4L engine!!

 

I'm still not sold on any aspect of the Giugiaro. I'd rather see Ford take an American view of the Mustang instead of a European one (no offense to our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic but the Mustang is an America icon). Just my $.02