New brake setup

[HORSBYT]

So, I picked up a set of Brembo's from a guy who got SS'd. I got a great price on his brakes, rotors and wheels. However, my Shelby Redline wheels will not fit the Brembo's, not even with spacers. So, now i'm left in a dilemna. On one hand, i'm thinking of staying with my current setup because it wont' add any additional weight. I've recently been bitten by the racing bug and would like the advantage of the bigger brakes. Plus, i'm guessing that a little extra weight up front may help it handle a little better. Anyway, i LIKE my wheels and dont really want to get rid of them. I could run the GT5 wheels for now, but there's no comparison to my current setup. It took me forever to decide on the Redline and not sure what i'd buy next. I know I'd like to put some Nitto NT01's on the GT5 wheels and use it for track days.

 

I posted some pics if anyone is interested in the "look." I also painted the "hats" on the GT5 rotors to sproose them up a bit. I also did the same on some others and did a "faux" removable hat look. I laid the rotor down, took some small nuts and just placed them in position and then sprayed the hat. I think they came out pretty damn good and look great in person! Anyway, i figured I'd throw it out there if anyone was interested in trying it..

[kahmann]

Nice work man they look sweet!

[clark17357]

I've recently been bitten by the racing bug and would like the advantage of the bigger brakes. Plus, i'm guessing that a little extra weight up front may help it handle a little better.

Just curious as to what would suggest to you the extra weight up front would help the car handle better? I am trying to lose weight on the front end. Will you be at the SoCal event later this month?

 

Jim

[HORSBYT]

Hey Jim -

 

I will be at AAA Speedway on the 16th. Other obligations have me committed for the rest of the event on the 15th... I'll see you at the track.

 

A little extra weight keeps more of the tire patch on the ground. I always felt like the front end was a little "lofty" feeling... in my opinion. It's the same thing you experience after adding the S/C... I could definitely tell the car handled differently with the weight up there. I weighed the stock GT5 rotors which came out to be about 30lbs! The Brembo calipers weigh 10. Subtracting my current setup, there is about a 40lb net gain by adding the Brembo setup. Obviously, some of that could be reduced by using a two-piece rotor, but then quite spendy. Weight is the enemy of speed, but not handling? I'm open to someone who is versed in this as i'm just suggesting that a little more weight on the wheels specifically is going to make the car handle differently (and in some cases better?).

[devildog350]

Hey Jim -

 

I will be at AAA Speedway on the 16th. Other obligations have me committed for the rest of the event on the 15th... I'll see you at the track.

 

A little extra weight keeps more of the tire patch on the ground. I always felt like the front end was a little "lofty" feeling... in my opinion. It's the same thing you experience after adding the S/C... I could definitely tell the car handled differently with the weight up there. I weighed the stock GT5 rotors which came out to be about 30lbs! The Brembo calipers weigh 10. Subtracting my current setup, there is about a 40lb net gain by adding the Brembo setup. Obviously, some of that could be reduced by using a two-piece rotor, but then quite spendy. Weight is the enemy of speed, but not handling? I'm open to someone who is versed in this as i'm just suggesting that a little more weight on the wheels specifically is going to make the car handle differently (and in some cases better?).

Increasing weight by rotors,calipers, is not the way to go. The car first needs to be scaled, then find the ideal weight per tire, and adjust ride height, cross weight to bring tire weight to less than 10# at all 4 corners. That will set the proper Front to rear weight ratio. From that point at the track, you need to set shocks, Run laps to set bump, then run laps for Rebound. This is considering Caster, Camber,Toe,Bumpsteer,has been set. After adjusting Shocks, check Springs for Roll in corners, change as needed. As Far as tires go, you need to check tire temp(keeping in the range of 190-220). iF ITS TO COLD it will become stiff, too hot it will begin shedding rubber. Tires need to be checked IMO.(inside,middle,outside), adjust pressure,camber,caster,toe,and readjust bumpsteer. If all tires read within limits, then,all settings are correct. Keep in mind tire pressure adjustment can change tire wall spring pressure(1#=15#tire wall spring pressure), so adj air pressure will change weight of car at that corner. Tires are a major factor in the handling of the car, Higher loads will generate more force but at a non-linear rate. so two front tires sharing an equal load will generate more turning force than when the load is unequally distributed. There more to seting a car up for racing than just puting on parts, you have to do alot of testing at each track, there is no one set up does all. So by getting the correct weight at each tire, will give the proper slip angle in a turn(Lateral Forces) where the contact patch is actually slipping under normal conditions, but operating in a mode of static friction(Stiction). The contact patch is is deflected away from its normal position with respect to the rim of the tire. The resultant force generated by this deflection is applied through the suspension system to the car body and serves to turn the car. The higher the slip angle, the larger the amount of turning force generated. Ive kinda given a condensed version, their a whole lot more on this, thats why it takes alot of track time to dial in the car. hope this makes sense.

[HORSBYT]

Increasing weight by rotors,calipers, is not the way to go. The car first needs to be scaled, then find the ideal weight per tire, and adjust ride height, cross weight to bring tire weight to less than 10# at all 4 corners. That will set the proper Front to rear weight ratio. From that point at the track, you need to set shocks, Run laps to set bump, then run laps for Rebound. This is considering Caster, Camber,Toe,Bumpsteer,has been set. After adjusting Shocks, check Springs for Roll in corners, change as needed. As Far as tires go, you need to check tire temp(keeping in the range of 190-220). iF ITS TO COLD it will become stiff, too hot it will begin shedding rubber. Tires need to be checked IMO.(inside,middle,outside), adjust pressure,camber,caster,toe,and readjust bumpsteer. If all tires read within limits, then,all settings are correct. Keep in mind tire pressure adjustment can change tire wall spring pressure(1#=15#tire wall spring pressure), so adj air pressure will change weight of car at that corner. Tires are a major factor in the handling of the car, Higher loads will generate more force but at a non-linear rate. so two front tires sharing an equal load will generate more turning force than when the load is unequally distributed. There more to seting a car up for racing than just puting on parts, you have to do alot of testing at each track, there is no one set up does all. So by getting the correct weight at each tire, will give the proper slip angle in a turn(Lateral Forces) where the contact patch is actually slipping under normal conditions, but operating in a mode of static friction(Stiction). The contact patch is is deflected away from its normal position with respect to the rim of the tire. The resultant force generated by this deflection is applied through the suspension system to the car body and serves to turn the car. The higher the slip angle, the larger the amount of turning force generated. Ive kinda given a condensed version, their a whole lot more on this, thats why it takes alot of track time to dial in the car. hope this makes sense.

 

 

Totally makes sense! :eek5: However, maybe my "added weight" point was misunderstood. I wasn't attempting to add weight by adding the bigger brakes. In fact, I was a little turned off by the additional weight the new setup would add overall. I was merely making somewhat a flipant remark in that "one" of the "possible" benefits of having the additional weight "could" help in front end steering. IMHO, I like the "feel" of some "resistence" in the mechanics when driving as that's what personally inspires more confidence in my driving. If I feel like the car is "loose" and "flimsy" i'm less likely to be confident about the handling characteristics.

 

As for your well detailed methodolgy (which I appreciate) I must admit, I'm not THAT concerned. Maybe it's my lack of understanding of "tuning" the car but I drive more or less on the feedback from the car. Yeah, at some point I may start to put 2+2 together as my experience broadens, but for now, I'm attempting to learn by trial and error. This "method" can be costly, but until someone decides to take me under their wing and teach me, it's all I can do for now! Trust me, i'm not pretending to know anything. This is simple observation.

 

Thanks again for the input.....

[devildog350]

Totally makes sense! :eek5: However, maybe my "added weight" point was misunderstood. I wasn't attempting to add weight by adding the bigger brakes. In fact, I was a little turned off by the additional weight the new setup would add overall. I was merely making somewhat a flipant remark in that "one" of the "possible" benefits of having the additional weight "could" help in front end steering. IMHO, I like the "feel" of some "resistence" in the mechanics when driving as that's what personally inspires more confidence in my driving. If I feel like the car is "loose" and "flimsy" i'm less likely to be confident about the handling characteristics.

 

As for your well detailed methodolgy (which I appreciate) I must admit, I'm not THAT concerned. Maybe it's my lack of understanding of "tuning" the car but I drive more or less on the feedback from the car. Yeah, at some point I may start to put 2+2 together as my experience broadens, but for now, I'm attempting to learn by trial and error. This "method" can be costly, but until someone decides to take me under their wing and teach me, it's all I can do for now! Trust me, i'm not pretending to know anything. This is simple observation.

 

Thanks again for the input.....

I kind of figured you meant frontal weight. If your going to do more tracking, just start out by scaling your car, figure your corner weights, and adjust air pressure. Then bring some one with you to read tire temp, from inside, middle, outer, see what the cross temps are, then you'll know what you need to adjust. Lonacre sells a portable scale set for around 1000.00bucks, you can build ramps out of wood yourself. The more tracking you do you'll probaly want to change to Griggs coilovers, that way you'll be able to set the correct corner weight. Just take your time, make small changes at a time, and when your on the track, start out and learn two corners at a time, when you get them correct, do two more. just take you time and dont drive over your head.

Each and every time out you'll learn more and more about your car handling. Anything I can help with let me know.