ADMs are dropping on ebay

[carnut]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 22 2006, 06:48 PM) 77822[/snapback]

So, when us dealers sell a vehicle for less than MSRP, that makes the consumer greedy, right?

 

It's supposed to be a one-way street you know, most people don't want to understand the issue, just the the person who insists the dealer is getting rich when he is paying invoice.

[Five Oh B]

Dishonesty does not equal a dealer who adds mark up. Think Five Oh B....great guy...apparently honest...adds mark up.

 

 

Funny you mention that, and thank you for doing so. I had a customer recently inquire about a Shelby and she said she was hoping that we'd sell for MSRP, because she had heard we are an honest dealer. I told her we were very honest and upfront with all five of our GT500 customers when we agreed to $10K over MSRP. She told me she'd keep looking until she found a dealer that would be honest so we parted ways. All of our 2007 GT500 customers are very; we've kept our word, and everyone got a deal they could live with. Price and honesty are two very seperate issues.

 

On a side note - the Shelby is the only vehicle we mark up over MSRP. We discount everything else way below MSRP and pass on every rebate that every customer qualifies for every day on everything other than the Shelbys. It all goes back to supply and demand and our free market economy. If we have too many of something that few people want, we discount. If we can't get enough of something that way too many people want, we charge a reasonable price that makes both parties happy. We come to work every day to move iron, not to hold cars hostage and bend customers over.

[Grabber]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 22 2006, 05:56 PM) 77829[/snapback]

Funny you mention that, and thank you for doing so. I had a customer recently inquire about a Shelby and she said she was hoping that we'd sell for MSRP, because she had heard we are an honest dealer. I told her we were very honest and upfront with all five of our GT500 customers when we agreed to $10K over MSRP. She told me she'd keep looking until she found a dealer that would be honest so we parted ways. All of our 2007 GT500 customers are very; we've kept our word, and everyone got a deal they could live with. Price and honesty are two very seperate issues.

 

On a side note - the Shelby is the only vehicle we mark up over MSRP. We discount everything else way below MSRP and pass on every rebate that every customer qualifies for every day on everything other than the Shelbys. It all goes back to supply and demand and our free market economy. If we have too many of something that few people want, we discount. If we can't get enough of something that way too many people want, we charge a reasonable price that makes both parties happy. We come to work every day to move iron, not to hold cars hostage and bend customers over.

 

I would buy a car from you, that's for sure. There are many other good dealers out there too. It's not to often a vehicle like the GT500 comes along and stirs up this kind of trouble.

[rbortnick]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 22 2006, 09:56 PM) 77829[/snapback]

Funny you mention that, and thank you for doing so. I had a customer recently inquire about a Shelby and she said she was hoping that we'd sell for MSRP, because she had heard we are an honest dealer. I told her we were very honest and upfront with all five of our GT500 customers when we agreed to $10K over MSRP. She told me she'd keep looking until she found a dealer that would be honest so we parted ways. All of our 2007 GT500 customers are very; we've kept our word, and everyone got a deal they could live with. Price and honesty are two very seperate issues.

 

On a side note - the Shelby is the only vehicle we mark up over MSRP. We discount everything else way below MSRP and pass on every rebate that every customer qualifies for every day on everything other than the Shelbys. It all goes back to supply and demand and our free market economy. If we have too many of something that few people want, we discount. If we can't get enough of something that way too many people want, we charge a reasonable price that makes both parties happy. We come to work every day to move iron, not to hold cars hostage and bend customers over.

 

 

 

+100

I would also buy a vehicle from you.

Thank god there are still some of you out there, thats exactly how I got mine at MSRP. The dealer kept their word from day one when I gave them my deposit. I did however request that MSRP be written on my deposit / bill of sale. Its all in the negotiation and folow thru

[ratnacage]

Agreed - but it blows when there is a deal in place and some one gets hosed. That's where I draw the line. I have no problem with selling the thing for what you can get, but once a deal is in place live up to your word.....Problem is it goes both ways. Buyers don't always come through either....but usually it's because their eyes are bigger than their wallet so to speak.

 

 

It does go both ways, and more often than not, it does happen in reverse. It's not uncommon to have a commitment from a customer on a deal, then they find a better deal and go with that one (or they just "change their mind" about a purchase altogether). It's really no different than a dealer agreeing to a price on the Shelby, then breaking that deal to sell it at a higher price to someone else. That's not a defense of the practice, but before people get all indignant about it, I wanted to point out that dealing with customers breaking their word is just part of everyday business.

 

I personally wouldn't break my word and I've made a few gross errors on pricing (not on a Shelby as evidenced by the fact I still have my job!), but I just bite the bullet and follow through with it.

[Grabber]

It does go both ways, and more often than not, it does happen in reverse. It's not uncommon to have a commitment from a customer on a deal, then they find a better deal and go with that one (or they just "change their mind" about a purchase altogether). It's really no different than a dealer agreeing to a price on the Shelby, then breaking that deal to sell it at a higher price to someone else. That's not a defense of the practice, but before people get all indignant about it, I wanted to point out that dealing with customers breaking their word is just part of everyday business.

 

I personally wouldn't break my word and I've made a few gross errors on pricing (not on a Shelby as evidenced by the fact I still have my job!), but I just bite the bullet and follow through with it.

 

Rat,

You are right. Several members have 1 or 2 back up plans under there belts for GT500's. I have seen it in there signatures and seen the posts. I wonder what the dealer would say if they new that the buyer was using them as a "back up plan". I bet if the dealer knew this, then they would sell the car to someone else.

[ratnacage]

by the way, I heard 90GT got dusted by a Honda. That's truely the source of his anger, so he's taking it out on dealers.

[Captainbob]

Nice, you take my post as being selfish?? I guess not being able to afford a 20k ADM makes me that way.

 

And how can having ADM's help every one get a car?? That's even funnier!!!

 

My dealer had 14 grand of my money for over 4 months. I thought I was locked in and would get one for MSRP. Then the owner decides that they want to mark up the car 1 month before production starts, not by 1k or even 5k, but 15k over. And this is from a dealer that I have had a good relationship with for a long time. This is greed and this is what has happened to a lot of people other than just myself. This is why ADM's are bad. You are correct it stating that not all dealers are the same but in my experience in shopping for a GT500, all have been the same.

 

I'm done my rant. I'm not posting in this thread any more. It just amazes me how pro ADM this site is when good honest people have been screwed over by nothing more than pure dealer greed.

 

I'm gone.

 

I was screwed over as well.. I don't think anyone is pro ADM.. It's just reality.. Supply and demand.. The important thing here is... Did you get your car? I hope so..

[Alloy Dave]

I'm done my rant. I'm not posting in this thread any more.

 

I'm gone.

 

Mission accomplished.

[Alloy Dave]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 22 2006, 08:48 PM) 77822[/snapback]

So, when us dealers sell a vehicle for less than MSRP, that makes the consumer greedy, right?

 

+1. Five Oh, I know where you are coming from. I'm not "pro ADM", I've never worked for a dealer, and I don't own my own business. However, our markets are just set up to work this way. I stayed out of the ADM discussions for quite a while after getting into some heated debates...but I got back in because I feel the need to defend both the dealers who sell with ADMs as well as those purchasing with ADMs. Although I did not pay an ADM, I don't have issues with others doing so.

 

Your point about the lady saying you were dishonest by adding an ADM is funny. I actually would call that MORE honest by being upfront about it....as opposed to the first 4 dealerships I went to where they followed this routine....

 

Dealer: Sure, we can sell you one at MSRP...leave us your name and info.

Me: Ok, here's my deposit, let's write up a sales order.

Dealer: Well we don't have pricing yet...so we'll have to wait to do that.

Me: No problem, let's just note on the sales order that the sale will be at MSRP.

Dealer: We can't do that.

Me: Why not?

Dealer: We just can't.

Me: How about penning a letter in your dealership stationary, signed by the sales manager, stating it is your intention to sell me one at MSRP? I'll give you $10,000 down today, you can cash the check.

Dealer: I'll have to ask the sales manager when he returns. I can call you later.

 

Then I never get a call back. They started off sounding real serious about wanting to sell a car at MSRP, then when I asked for it in writing...they go all schizoid on me. Later that day I did find a dealer willing to put it in writing...and that's where I'm at today.

 

Ok, I'm off my soapbox now. I'll go back to avoiding ADM discussions for another month until people start beating up on my friends again.

 

Dave

[jcthorne]

Nice, you take my post as being selfish?? I guess not being able to afford a 20k ADM makes me that way.

 

And how can having ADM's help every one get a car?? That's even funnier!!!

 

My dealer had 14 grand of my money for over 4 months. I thought I was locked in and would get one for MSRP. Then the owner decides that they want to mark up the car 1 month before production starts, not by 1k or even 5k, but 15k over. And this is from a dealer that I have had a good relationship with for a long time. This is greed and this is what has happened to a lot of people other than just myself. This is why ADM's are bad. You are correct it stating that not all dealers are the same but in my experience in shopping for a GT500, all have been the same.

 

I'm done my rant. I'm not posting in this thread any more. It just amazes me how pro ADM this site is when good honest people have been screwed over by nothing more than pure dealer greed.

 

I'm gone.

 

 

ADM = Profit which is a good thing.

 

Dealer dishonesty = illegal which is a bad thing

 

Dont know how to put in any more clear. You are complaining about the wrong thing. The ADM is not your problem, the dishonest dealer who refuses to honor a written contract is your problem. IF you really had such a contract in place, see a lawyer.

 

I am not in favor of ADMs but understand them. As long as agreed to up front in an honest way there is nothing wrong with it. Greed is a very bad word for a very good concept. Profit is what makes this country work. Don't like it, find a socialist or communist society to join. Then see if you will get a Shelby. This is a free market economy, no one is saying it will result in EVERYONE getting a Shelby, but it does result in a fair distribution. The fact that your dealer chose to go outside the law (an assumption based on your discription) is not an indication that the system is broke, its an indication that your dealer is broken.

 

No one here is going to try and convice you that dealer dishonesty is ok but ADM does not equal dishonesty.

[jrichard]

I've been in quite a few discussions regarding ADM...always in support of the dealer's right to add markup. This position comes from an understanding that the key issue is one of allocation and allocation problems for non-essentials are best addressed through pricing. And I'm in good company...the reality is virtually all macro models frame the economy as an allocation problem and almost all economists conclude that market pricing is a very efficient method of resolving such problems.

 

The opposite argument is usually from one of two types: ( a ) those that have been screwed by a dealer and are angry...their anger gets directed at the 'system' that allowed or encouraged the screweing (e.g. "...if it weren't for ADM and my greedy dealer's desire to charge ADM, I wouldn't have been screwed...therefore dealers that charge ADM are dishonest"); ( b ) those that simply want a GT500 at less than current market value...those types typically say things like, "...the car is not worth more than MSRP...therefore any dealer that charges ADM is dishonest." As if MSRP were some magic number...not to mention that one cannot develop an objective measure of worth separate from pricing determined by willing and informed buyers and sellers.

 

In the ADM-hostile camp, you see a lot of folks that don't want to be confused by the facts. 90GT said he "figured some one would come back with the open market excuse." And then called it 'so last year.' As if market pricing is now out of style and we're on to some new new thing...or as if the facts pertaining the pricing in a open economy are simply an "excuse."

 

The problem, of course, is that ADM-hostile types are upset because they have been screwed or haven't gotten what they want. And that sucks...no one likes it. But then the spin begins and ADM becomes dishonest...which is an illogical equation because one has nothing to do with the other. So, we'll never resolve the "debate." And I'm irrational because I occasionally try.

[supe]

Just keeping count... 13 cars on e-bay. the lowest is $46,000 with a reserve of $69,000. The highest is $69,000. I have track 46 cars all not reaching the reserve. What is the real trend?

[Fordrules]

Sorry, 90GT felt pummeled.

I think there is some great stuff here, but money wise, if I walked into a dealer and he said Joe from StangsUnleashed had offered him $5000 ADM, I would go $6000 ADM to have this car. It is about a competitive market.

Nonetheless, the dealers should be morally and legally bound to fulfill a deal especially with cash down. There is more to that story or someone needs a good lawyer.

[jrichard]

Sorry, 90GT felt pummeled.

I think there is some great stuff here, but money wise, if I walked into a dealer and he said Joe from StangsUnleashed had offered him $5000 ADM, I would go $6000 ADM to have this car. It is about a competitive market.

Nonetheless, the dealers should be morally and legally bound to fulfill a deal especially with cash down. There is more to that story or someone needs a good lawyer.

 

 

I apologize for my part in the pummeling.

 

Dealers are legally bound if a contract exists. Very little is required to form a contract. Cash down is not a requirement though it is great support for the existence of a contract and of "meeting of the minds." Further, once a contract is formed, it is easy to clarify the details of the contract and document your intent and understanding via written correspondence to the dealer.

 

But, it can cost a lot of money to enforce contracts and, generally, attorney fees are not recoverable for breach of contract. Usually, though, you can develop legal theories that allow for recovery of costs.

[BillyRay]

Hey Folks I think I figured it out A D M

 

A=Another

 

 

D= Damn

 

 

M= Moron

 

This is kind of what I felt like after my Dealer BUDDY bent me over 12,500 ADM......BUT the good news

I,ll say is.......................The eagle has landed.....This is like OLD Denny Green coach of the Phx cardinals.

" The car is what I thought it was" I say crown their ass (Ford)

 

Hey if the roads clear up today I,ll be snapping peoples necks with the Grabber Yeeeeeeeha..

[Grabber]

Hey Folks I think I figured it out A D M

 

A=Another

D= Damn

M= Moron

 

This is kind of what I felt like after my Dealer BUDDY bent me over 12,500 ADM......BUT the good news

I,ll say is.......................The eagle has landed.....This is like OLD Denny Green coach of the Phx cardinals.

" The car is what I thought it was" I say crown their ass (Ford)

 

Hey if the roads clear up today I,ll be snapping peoples necks with the Grabber Yeeeeeeeha..

 

Nice looking GO. I like it. :happy feet:

[Ripthedealeroff]

ADM = Profit which is a good thing.

 

Dealer dishonesty = illegal which is a bad thing

 

Dont know how to put in any more clear. You are complaining about the wrong thing. The ADM is not your problem, the dishonest dealer who refuses to honor a written contract is your problem. IF you really had such a contract in place, see a lawyer.

 

I am not in favor of ADMs but understand them. As long as agreed to up front in an honest way there is nothing wrong with it. Greed is a very bad word for a very good concept. Profit is what makes this country work. Don't like it, find a socialist or communist society to join. Then see if you will get a Shelby. This is a free market economy, no one is saying it will result in EVERYONE getting a Shelby, but it does result in a fair distribution. The fact that your dealer chose to go outside the law (an assumption based on your discription) is not an indication that the system is broke, its an indication that your dealer is broken.

 

No one here is going to try and convice you that dealer dishonesty is ok but ADM does not equal dishonesty.

 

 

The problem is that most of the dealers have been not telling the truth and playing with our money. The first dealer I spoke to called me and then took my deposit and we had a verbal contract for MSRP. One week later he said were going to have to mark your car up...way up. I began the lawsuit process, but the problem is it sometimes costs more in time and money than the ADM and sometimes you are dealing interstate where different laws apply etc. I eventually bought a car from a VERY GOOD dealer who actually did what he said he would with an ADM. I had many more negative experiences (9 to 1 negative) than my one positive. There are good dealers out there but they are few and far between. So guess what I do for the dealership who sold me the car....I recommend them to everyone who is looking for a Ford...guess what I do for the others...I'll leave it to your imagination. Merry Christmas!

[Grabber]

 

Are you a broker?

[Ripthedealeroff]

Are you a broker?

I guess you could say I am abroker for that 1 dealership without getting paid. You see the way I now live my life is like this...you do the right thing and I'll go out of my way to help you succeed in whatever you are doing in your life!

[Grabber]

I guess you could say I am abroker for that 1 dealership without getting paid. You see the way I now live my life is like this...you do the right thing and I'll go out of my way to help you succeed in whatever you are doing in your life!

Are you a Con Artist

[mastersmech1]

I guess you could say I am abroker for that 1 dealership without getting paid. You see the way I now live my life is like this...you do the right thing and I'll go out of my way to help you succeed in whatever you are doing in your life!

Good philosophy.

[jrichard]

I began the lawsuit process, but the problem is it sometimes costs more in time and money than the ADM and sometimes you are dealing interstate where different laws apply etc.

 

 

Congrats on finding a car at a good dealership!

 

A little note of encouragement to others who might have out-of-state dealers walking on their deal: in a consumer dispute, it is likely that the laws of your home state govern the dispute. This is particularly true if the dealership uses the internet for advertising and you did not physically go to the other state to sign your deal. My case is an example...I live in California and an Oregon dealer walked on my deal. In this type of situation, the California Civil Code specifically asserts jurisdiction and the Oregon Revised Statutes specifically give up jurisdiction (if the consumer did not travel to Oregon to make the deal).

 

The advantage of this is that it puts a tremendous burden on the dealership as they will have to defend a lawsuit in your state. If you have a contract, or anything close to a contract, with an out of state dealer and he walks on your deal, my advice is to spend a relatively small amount of money and file a quick and dirty complaint in your home-state court of jurisdiction. You can always amend your complaint, but filing it requires a response and that forces the dealer to start spending significant amounts of money. Of course, at the same time you should let Ford know what happened and see if you can get support from that route...

[90GT]

by the way, I heard 90GT got dusted by a Honda. That's truely the source of his anger, so he's taking it out on dealers.

 

 

 

My source of anger, if you took the time to read my posts, is dishonest dealers and ADM's. Maybe you should go back a few pages and read what I wrote again.

 

 

Second, none of my posts were directed at any one personally. So lets not make it that way.

[Grabber]

Jim, It is good to have you back on the hot button thread. Now about that 1000 dollar rebate your getting shafted out of. That sucks man.

 

I hope you get it.

 

I hope I did not get your goat.

[90GT]

Jim, It is good to have you back on the hot button thread. Now about that 1000 dollar rebate your getting shafted out of. That sucks man.

 

I hope you get it.

 

I hope I did not get your goat.

 

 

 

No, it's cool.

 

I realize that many people on this site have paid ADM's to get this car including yourself. To them the car is worth it and that's fine. My frustration and anger is towards dishonest dealers like the one who screwed me over. If the dealer is upfront about the ADM then I have two choices, pay it or don't. I still feel that any ADM is just pure greed and don't buy the BS market explanation but that's just my opinion. I personally have never and never will pay any ADM on any vehicle.

 

I've voiced my opinion enough in this thread so it's a dead issue for me.

[Grabber]

No, it's cool.

 

I realize that many people on this site have paid ADM's to get this car including yourself. To them the car is worth it and that's fine. My frustration and anger is towards dishonest dealers like the one who screwed me over. If the dealer is upfront about the ADM then I have two choices, pay it or don't. I still feel that any ADM is just pure greed and don't buy the BS market explanation but that's just my opinion. I personally have never and never will pay any ADM on any vehicle.

 

I've voiced my opinion enough in this thread so it's a dead issue for me.

 

I hear ya Jim. This is my 1st ADM. A whopper too. I got over it when I pulled the trigger. I can't wait to see your new GT. I was fondling our GT/CS tonight with some wax in the garage. They are sweet rides.

[ratnacage]

My source of anger, if you took the time to read my posts, is dishonest dealers and ADM's. Maybe you should go back a few pages and read what I wrote again.

Second, none of my posts were directed at any one personally. So lets not make it that way.

 

 

DAMN YOU ARE SOOOOO B-U-S-T-E-D !!! I made you post, na, na, na, na, na!!!

 

when you said you'd never post in this thread again I just couldn't resist - it's all cool.

[supe]

What? What?

[Grabber]

What? What?

 

To catch up on this you must go back and read the full thread "Boob Boy".