ADMs are dropping on ebay

[snakeplissken]

Must be a Clueless Dealer if he's selling a Car that Routinely go's for $10-20K over Msrp and he's selling at under MSRP. This is hard to believe.

[Grabber]

Welcome to the site Snake...I don't recall seeing you around. :happy feet:

 

Dave is suppose to be screening and doing orientations to eliminate any fishy smells.

[carnut]

Dave is suppose to be screening and doing orientations to eliminate any fishy smells.

 

He was supposed to be doing the same thing for doggy breath too

[KingCobra666]

Congrats on your order KC666. My build is right after yours. I too am paying the 15K ADM. We will have to see who gets their car 1st. Forget the ADM now that its over and done with...I did. Grabber (PMFWB)

 

 

Thanks Grabber. Grats to you as well. Yeah Im over it(ADM), once you dive in its time to think about all the fun shite your gonna do with your new Shelby . I have a feeling I will get mine first, its Ebony over the top delete, (Tung)rocker stripe only. I was told(and read) they put the rocker stripe on at the Main plant and the car will skip the secondary stripe plant. That should speed it up a bit. Im hoping for late Jan early Feb. Im probably being overly optomistic but ...First week in Jan Im going to call CS and see where its at. I just hope the boys on the line are not still hung over when the put her together.

 

GO is a great color, I was really on the fence, almost went GO myself, but I decided it might be a bit too much of a ticket/vandal magnet. I work in a industrial area and the car will likely be parked outside at night a lot. This will be my third black mustang. Had 2 stang GTs before this Shelby, and 85 and a 91. Wife says, "your in a rut". I said "yeah I know, but I LIKE the rut"....

 

It pains me to say it, but the dealers that are charging ADMs are just businessmen. On the other hand, if they go to contract on a car then jack it up after the fact or sell it from under you or otherwise jerk the customer around, then thats a whole nother matter. There seems to be a lot of that happening and that is simply crap, and its bad for business in the long haul. As long as they are up front about things I can live with it, though I still dont like it heh.

 

Getting a Shelby coupe for 43k and change or less would be the deal of the century. All you guys who scored at MSRP or lower, congrats. I waited too long to get the sweet deal and not industrious enough to hunt down a good deal out of state or in a rural area. There was a local dealer was going 7250 over sticker back in May but wouldnt even take a deposit the list was already so long. Seems to me Ford corporation is the big loser here, they should have MSRPed the car at 55k+ based on what it is, but for whatever reason they let the profits go to dealers instead. Maybe thats why they are losing money JMHO

 

KC666

[BadTony]

Any ADM is an over charge and a ripoff. Un fortunately, ADM's will last until dealers become honest enough to sell the product at the price that the manufacturer sets (MSRP) or what Edmunds shows as it value (right now they say a coupe is 43570 (interior upgrade / no Shaker 1000)

& what all other sites around the web say that the price is.

[5.4 Shelby]

Must be a Clueless Dealer if he's selling a Car that Routinely go's for $10-20K over Msrp and he's selling at under MSRP. This is hard to believe.

 

I wouldn't say clueless. I'd say smart dealer. He knows it will perpetuate future business. The guy getting 10-20 over is pissing off his regular customers and they will go elsewhere. Supe will likely continue to buy from this guy.

[Grabber]

I wouldn't say clueless. I'd say smart dealer. He knows it will perpetuate future business. The guy getting 10-20 over is pissing off his regular customers and they will go elsewhere. Supe will likely continue to buy from this guy.

 

IMO the market of GT500 buyers is small compared to the over all buyers that go to purchase vehicles at a dealership. When I go buy a car in the future, I will be using my X plan and the ADM thing will have no bearing whatsoever on where I buy.

[supe]

Your right, smart dealer. The dealer is a man of his word. :bowdown: I am not going to sell my Chevy but all new purchases will be through this dealer. :beerchug:

 

I gonna get tattoo of the dealers logo. :angel:

[jrichard]

IMO the market of GT500 buyers is small compared to the over all buyers that go to purchase vehicles at a dealership. When I go buy a car in the future, I will be using my X plan and the ADM thing will have no bearing whatsoever on where I buy.

 

 

I think you're right. ADM on cars like the GT500 will have minimal impact on where future buyers shop. The small group that feels wronged, for whatever reason, by a dealer marking up a car will want to shop elsewhere...but it's a small group. And even within that group, I'm guessing the memory of ADM will fade (especially when almost every Ford dealer is asking for mark up).

 

Keep in mind a dealer who sells a GT500 at or near MSRP to "favored" customers is really just creating another form of "added dealer markup" or adjusted value. He's saying, "...hey, I'm only selling this car to someone who will create well above-average income for me in the future..." From the perspective of most people on this board, that should be the same (or worse) than if the dealer simply marked the car up $15k and sold it to whoever wanted it. Now that dealer may be dumber or smarter...it depends on who he chooses as his favored one. At the end of the day, this tactic STILL excludes Joe Blow from buying the car at MSRP...and, in fact, it is much more exclusionary than simply adding extra dollars to MSRP.

 

BUT, I think dealers who do not stand by their word will be negatively affected moving forward. Contrary to what many put forth, dishonesty is a separate issue entirely. Dishonest dealers will suffer reputational effects that likely reflect their other business dealings. Then they will be left to compete soley on price...always a tough way to compete when their cost structure is the same as every other dealer in town. If you've been screwed after having a deal, you're not likely to forgive the dealer. And, as a 'car guy' among your famiily and friends, you're likely to let others know that you've been screwed.

[Grabber]

I think you're right. ADM on cars like the GT500 will have minimal impact on where future buyers shop. The small group that feels wronged, for whatever reason, by a dealer marking up a car will want to shop elsewhere...but it's a small group. And even within that group, I'm guessing the memory of ADM will fade (especially when almost every Ford dealer is asking for mark up).

 

Keep in mind a dealer who sells a GT500 at or near MSRP to "favored" customers is really just creating another form of "added dealer markup" or adjusted value. He's saying, "...hey, I'm only selling this car to someone who will create well above-average income for me in the future..." From the perspective of most people on this board, that should be the same (or worse) than if the dealer simply marked the car up $15k and sold it to whoever wanted it. Now that dealer may be dumber or smarter...it depends on who he chooses as his favored one. At the end of the day, this tactic STILL excludes Joe Blow from buying the car at MSRP...and, in fact, it is much more exclusionary than simply adding extra dollars to MSRP.

 

BUT, I think dealers who do not stand by their word will be negatively affected moving forward. Contrary to what many put forth, dishonesty is a separate issue entirely. Dishonest dealers will suffer reputational effects that likely reflect their other business dealings. Then they will be left to compete soley on price...always a tough way to compete when their cost structure is the same as every other dealer in town. If you've been screwed after having a deal, you're not likely to forgive the dealer. And, as a 'car guy' among your famiily and friends, you're likely to let others know that you've been screwed.

 

You are right....dishonesty will not be forgotten, the ADM will.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

IMO the market of GT500 buyers is small compared to the over all buyers that go to purchase vehicles at a dealership. When I go buy a car in the future, I will be using my X plan and the ADM thing will have no bearing whatsoever on where I buy.

 

My dealer wouldn't honor my "X" plan . But he did sell it to me for MSRP :happy feet:

[owenkelley]

Any ADM is an over charge and a ripoff. Un fortunately, ADM's will last until dealers become honest enough to sell the product at the price that the manufacturer sets (MSRP) or what Edmunds shows as it value (right now they say a coupe is 43570 (interior upgrade / no Shaker 1000)

& what all other sites around the web say that the price is.

 

 

 

I disagree with this statement. To me it is no different than a realtor telling you your house is worth $325,000 and you have somebody willing to pay you $375,000. Are you going to tell them you can only take $325,000 for it because that's what the proffessional realtor told you it's worth? Doubtful. Remember MSRP stands for Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. Like it's been stated before - they sell cars all day long below MSRP, should they not be allowed to do that anymore? I think they'd jump at that deal - they sell way more cars below MSRP than they do above.

[Grabber]

The GT500 is a unique car. Remember it has been 40 years since it has been produced. ADM's should not be a surprise to anyone. MSRP on this car is very unusual.congrats to the few that scored an MSRP deal. Congrats also to the other buyers that scored a car with an ADM. Either way we are all lucky to own one of these cars.

[snakeplissken]

I dont' have a problem with the Ford dealers asking over MSRP, this Is Free America. Keep in mind that 40% of the Ford dealers in the USA are losing money, There business is in Dire Straits. The GT500 is one of the few they sell that they can make money on. With that said I still have never paid over MSRP for any car the GT500 may be the first.

[Grabber]

I dont' have a problem with the Ford dealers asking over MSRP, this Is Free America. Keep in mind that 40% of the Ford dealers in the USA are losing money, There business is in Dire Straits. The GT500 is one of the few they sell that they can make money on. With that said I still have never paid over MSRP for any car the GT500 may be the first.

 

Good point friend. This is also the only ADM I have ever paid also. Hopefully the last.

[Fungu5]

10-4 to you 5.4!

 

I haven't seen one on the lot for too long and haven't checked to see if this one - or the other one in town sitting on the lot - is still there on Monday after a weekend of traffic.

 

Don't think the dealer isn't noticing the trend too? They could be thinking "right now ADM's are at 10-15K, but next week or month they might be around 5-10K" - so let's sell it now! Greed can be a terrible thing in hindsite!

 

And if it's a "traffic" item then why are they calling me (checked the messages it's actually four times!)

when I've told them I'm only an MSRP buyer, way, way down on their list.

 

Or course, there's the chance that the dude with more cash than brains (that we all hope for when we sell something) shows up.

 

I absolutely remember Ford GT buyer's being turned down @230K, and a friend just paid 167K for his (inherited a bunch of cash from father passing).

 

We'll see. I would be willing to bet that they WON'T GO UP IN PRICE! Carrol's health not withstanding - don't even like to talk about that! What a great guy he is to be so open and involved with the hobby.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Another question. Can anybody actually order one exactly the way they want it? I like to stripe delete and some other things on the regular menu that I've never seen on a car for sale.

 

the cars are still selling 15 to 30 over taska ford is asking 30 over i paid 15 over time is almost over for the shelbys 500 22hundred more to sell for 2007 i work at fords the 350s are the next run to go on sale

 

10-4 to you 5.4!

 

I haven't seen one on the lot for too long and haven't checked to see if this one - or the other one in town sitting on the lot - is still there on Monday after a weekend of traffic.

 

Don't think the dealer isn't noticing the trend too? They could be thinking "right now ADM's are at 10-15K, but next week or month they might be around 5-10K" - so let's sell it now! Greed can be a terrible thing in hindsite!

 

And if it's a "traffic" item then why are they calling me (checked the messages it's actually four times!)

when I've told them I'm only an MSRP buyer, way, way down on their list.

 

Or course, there's the chance that the dude with more cash than brains (that we all hope for when we sell something) shows up.

 

I absolutely remember Ford GT buyer's being turned down @230K, and a friend just paid 167K for his (inherited a bunch of cash from father passing).

 

We'll see. I would be willing to bet that they WON'T GO UP IN PRICE! Carrol's health not withstanding - don't even like to talk about that! What a great guy he is to be so open and involved with the hobby.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Another question. Can anybody actually order one exactly the way they want it? I like to stripe delete and some other things on the regular menu that I've never seen on a car for sale.

 

the cars are still selling 15 to 30 over taska ford is asking 30 over i paid 15 over time is almost over for the shelbys 500 22hundred more to sell for 2007 i work at fords the 350s are the next run to go on sale

[jaaman]

I dont' have a problem with the Ford dealers asking over MSRP, this Is Free America. Keep in mind that 40% of the Ford dealers in the USA are losing money, There business is in Dire Straits. The GT500 is one of the few they sell that they can make money on. With that said I still have never paid over MSRP for any car the GT500 may be the first.

 

[shel-b001]

+1

 

+1

 

+1

 

+1

[Alloy Dave]

Very well said. This is a limited Production Car.

Very well said. This is a Limited Production Car.

Very well said. This is a Limited Production Car.

Very well said. This ia a Limited Production Car.

 

Only 10 posts...I can't go after him yet.

[Grabber]

Only 10 posts...I can't go after him yet.

 

Good boy Dave. Glad to see you are leaving the early Grinch work to Acorn Boy.

[john351]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 13 2006, 08:08 AM) 73932[/snapback]

I still get at least one person a week coming in looking for a GT500 with this same mindset: "I'll pay anything, but I want one now." Too bad we locked in at $10K over MSRP a year ago for all 5 of our 2007's. It will be really interesting to see how the 2008's play out.

 

 

I think this brings up an interesting point. Re: ADM's I think that we really have "ourselves" to blame to a certain extent for a lot of this ADM stuff.

 

Here's an analagy - on a main street in my town there are two gas stations side by side on the same side of the road, both major name brands, both similar ingress/egress, mini-marts, crowds, etc, equal, equal, equal! However, one consistently charges 15-20 cents more per gallon. They get roughly the same amount of business. Why on earth would anyone go to the much more expensive one! Morons! If people had a tiny bit of brains, they'd only go to the cheaper station and the expensive one would have to lower its prices.

 

Similarly, people buying gas at Citgo (and 7/11) stations that directly put $ into the pockets of a guy (Chavez - Venezeula) who funds terrorist activities against you and me. Just have a clue as to what's going on around you!

 

SOOOO>>>> if we didn't pay the ridiculus ADM's on Shelbys, then the dealers couldn't charge them!

 

There is one big difference I know, there's always another gas station, but not another Shelby on the lot.

 

This month's Hemmings has a coupe - order it your way :hyper: asking 12.5K over.

 

See, I can get back to the point!

[Grabber]

John, nice comeback. Do you have a car on order or are you waiting for MSRP ???

[john351]

John, nice comeback. Do you have a car on order or are you waiting for MSRP ???

 

 

 

Waiting for MSRP, but have a #6 spot (probably not high enough up) on a Shelby GT at a dealer that doesn't charge any ADM's. They don't think it is good business practice - really.

 

Probably won't get it, not exactly sure if I want it @ 35K (MSRP). Plus add ons to bring it up to speed (S/C and brakes).

 

I guess I'll just see how the market plays out.

 

Boss 302?

 

I really don't mean to get on anybody for paying what they want to, but...

 

1. I'm not in the postion to do that - am spending my daughters college tuition to buy the car in the first place!

 

2. Don't have to be the first on my block.

 

3. I always shop hard to find the lowest price on anything.

 

Certainly wish I was driving one though!

[Grabber]

Waiting for MSRP, but have a #6 spot (probably not high enough up) on a Shelby GT at a dealer that doesn't charge any ADM's. They don't think it is good business practice - really.

 

Probably won't get it, not exactly sure if I want it @ 35K (MSRP). Plus add ons to bring it up to speed (S/C and brakes).

 

I guess I'll just see how the market plays out.

 

Boss 302?

 

I really don't mean to get on anybody for paying what they want to, but...

 

1. I'm not in the postion to do that - am spending my daughters college tuition to buy the car in the first place!

 

2. Don't have to be the first on my block.

 

3. I always shop hard to find the lowest price on anything.

 

Certainly wish I was driving one though!

 

John, I understand your situation. Everyones situation is different. For me, the time is right, and I don't like ADM, but am paying it. Good luck, I think your going to need it.

[KingCobra666]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 13 2006, 08:08 AM) 73932[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

I still get at least one person a week coming in looking for a GT500 with this same mindset: "I'll pay anything, but I want one now." Too bad we locked in at $10K over MSRP a year ago for all 5 of our 2007's. It will be really interesting to see how the 2008's play out.

I think this brings up an interesting point. Re: ADM's I think that we really have "ourselves" to blame to a certain extent for a lot of this ADM stuff.

 

Here's an analagy - on a main street in my town there are two gas stations side by side on the same side of the road, both major name brands, both similar ingress/egress, mini-marts, crowds, etc, equal, equal, equal! However, one consistently charges 15-20 cents more per gallon. They get roughly the same amount of business. Why on earth would anyone go to the much more expensive one! Morons! If people had a tiny bit of brains, they'd only go to the cheaper station and the expensive one would have to lower its prices.

 

Similarly, people buying gas at Citgo (and 7/11) stations that directly put $ into the pockets of a guy (Chavez - Venezeula) who funds terrorist activities against you and me. Just have a clue as to what's going on around you!

 

SOOOO>>>> if we didn't pay the ridiculus ADM's on Shelbys, then the dealers couldn't charge them!

 

There is one big difference I know, there's always another gas station, but not another Shelby on the lot.

 

This month's Hemmings has a coupe - order it your way :hyper: asking 12.5K over.

 

See, I can get back to the point!

 

 

Geez John, seems to me our little dress wearing buddies over in good ole Saudi Arabia are the ones funding terrorists, not Chavez. He might be a despotic commy, sure, but a terrorist? I havent heard of any Venezuelans killing Americans, have you?

 

Fact: Saudis are sending money to Sunni insurgents in Iraq who are killing our people. Iran is funding shiite terrorists. Not trying to go all political, but that just seemed like a silly comment. Most oil has blood on it, thats just the way it is. Till someone comes up with something better, we are stuck with it, but I would guess Citgos probably cleaner than the most of 'em. Most of the major gas stations buy gas from where ever, including Venezuela. Also, all gas is not created equal. If Im driving my Dodge 3500 work van, Ill put pretty much anything in it, but my Supra gets Mobile 93 and nothing else and my Shelby will get the same.

 

Sure ADMs suck, but people will pay them and Im not going to be the one to not have a Shelby soo...you pays your money and ya takes your chances. Ultimately its just the free enterprise system at work. If Americans boycotted SHelbys, those aforementioned dress wearing would be the ones buying up the Shelbys. I wonder how many cars have been shipped to the Middle East? When I think about that, it kinda makes my blood boil. King Faud probably has his.... Donning my asbestos suit NOW!

 

KC666

[Alloy Dave]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Dec 13 2006, 08:08 AM) 73932[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Here's an analagy - on a main street in my town there are two gas stations side by side on the same side of the road, both major name brands, both similar ingress/egress, mini-marts, crowds, etc, equal, equal, equal! However, one consistently charges 15-20 cents more per gallon. They get roughly the same amount of business. Why on earth would anyone go to the much more expensive one! Morons! If people had a tiny bit of brains, they'd only go to the cheaper station and the expensive one would have to lower its prices.

John, I'd like to study that situation a bit more closely...there's no way you can convince me that those two stations are equal in every way. It may APPEAR that they are, but there may be some subtle difference. When you say they have roughly the same amount of business, I assume that's just based on you driving past a few times a day and seeing the same amount of people at each one? Sometimes a cursory look such as that doesn't tell the story. Maybe the people at station A are buying more PER PERSON while they are in the store.

 

I agree there are some "not too bright" people out there....but this seems a bit obtuse to me.

 

Good luck with your car. Depending on the final stats of the BOSS, that may be a fabulous vehicle to own IMO.

 

Dave

[jrichard]

John, I'd like to study that situation a bit more closely...there's no way you can convince me that those two stations are equal in every way. It may APPEAR that they are, but there may be some subtle difference. When you say they have roughly the same amount of business, I assume that's just based on you driving past a few times a day and seeing the same amount of people at each one? Sometimes a cursory look such as that doesn't tell the story. Maybe the people at station A are buying more PER PERSON while they are in the store.

 

I agree there are some "not too bright" people out there....but this seems a bit obtuse to me.

 

Good luck with your car. Depending on the final stats of the BOSS, that may be a fabulous vehicle to own IMO.

 

Dave

 

+1...and the differences probably aren't so subtle.

 

Economists study stuff like this until they go to sleep.

 

WRT the gas station example, there are many potential explanations: ( 1 ) brand loyalty / advertising (...the reality is that gas at Mobile is essentially no different than gas at another local gas station...it all goes through the same refinery...but there are differences with respect to additives post-refinery); ( 2 ) convenience (...most people will stop at a gas station that is easy to access in the direction they are going; ( 3 ) Payment type (similar to convenience...you might have a Shell card for the rebates and you'll pay more at the pump...or you don't like using an ATM so you avoid ARCO...or you'll pay more to be able to pay cash without going into the store; ( 4 ) Speed (...some stations have pumps that pump faster or lines that move faster (because of more pumps) or cashiers that work faster or stores without a lot of food market items so you're in/out faster; ( 5 ) Complimentary goods (...you want to buy gas where you can also get a car wash or a soda or a hot dog), etc., etc.

 

So, the conclusion that a 5 or 10 cents per gallon is all that drives (or should drive) a consumer to one gas station over another doesn't take into account the many variables involved. As with every other consumer purchase, the price of the specific good is only one of many many factors.

 

Regarding buying gas at CITGO and funding Venezuela...I agree with you that Chavez is a very very bad man. And there is evidence that he's in bed with folks actively hostile to the US. Having said that, whether individuals buy at CITGO or not will have virtually no impact on his revenue stream. By the way, 7-11 is

dropping CITGO because of its Venezuelan ownership. But that won't have a meaningful impact on CITGO.

 

John351, I know it sounds like I'm bashing on you. I'm not, it's just that I can't resist engaging in these economic topics. I agree with the essence of your argument: ADMs exist because customers are willing to pay them...not because dealers have some significant level of pricing power. And that's exactly why ADMs will come down over time. Who knows how far, but it is clear they've already come off from their peak and will likely continue lower.

[Grabber]

when the ADM's are gone...the cars are likely to be gone too. The next anniversary Shelby will be the 50th. Remember guys, the 40th anniversary car run will be over in a few months.

[john351]

These are some good thoughts re: buying practices, and Dave makes some valid points too, but without any exageration, the prices are consistently 15-20 cents more per gallon not 5-10 (that I might understand re: personal preferrences). I forgot to mention that the cheaper one does have a car wash too! If i didn't say it correctly, i'll say it right this time, the more expensive one does seem to have a bit less business, but the point is that it should have no business at all! If there is a longer line at the cheaper, wouldn't you be willing to wait some (not forever) to pay at least 15 cents less per gallon? It would take quite a lot (free massages and beer?) to make me go pay 15-20 cents more per gallon.

 

 

[b]Regarding buying gas at CITGO and funding Venezuela...I agree with you that Chavez is a very very bad man. And there is evidence that he's in bed with folks actively hostile to the US. Having said that, whether individuals buy at CITGO or not will have virtually no impact on his revenue stream. By the way, 7-11 is dropping CITGO because of its Venezuelan ownership. But that won't have a meaningful impact on CITGO.[/b]

 

KC666 makes good points too re: the Saudi's, people think of them as our friends?! They definitely had a hand in the 911 attacks. Don't like them either! But Chavez does oversee the goverenment controlled CITGO corp versus say the Cheverons of the world that at least do some of their exploration in America, and pay American employees.

 

And as for him not being involved with terrorist activities, honestly I don't have the time to go research where I got the info, but factually, it was pretty recently where he was calling our President "The Devil", and having fun time meetings with Iran's leader. Iran has been known to do a few terrorist things, and they have that "funny" belief that the halocaust never happened!

 

John351, I know it sounds like I'm bashing on you. I'm not, it's just that I can't resist engaging in these economic topics. I agree with the essence of your argument: ADMs exist because customers are willing to pay them...not because dealers have some significant level of pricing power. And that's exactly why ADMs will come down over time. Who knows how far, but it is clear they've already come off from their peak and will likely continue lower.

 

 

ADM's are coming down - the theme of this thread, and will continue to do so. I just want something fun to drive to work everyday, and as my 16yo daughter will need a car soon, so the family can do a shuffle to where Dad gets the new car! :happy feet: My Pantera stays pretty much in the garage for insurance and unsuitabilty for daily driving reasons. I'll wait it out and get some sort of H. P. Mustang - Shelby GT, GT500, or Boss, or ?? If the prices don't come down - don't shoot me - I might have to consider a new Z51 Vette.

Can't believe I said that last one, but 47K for a decked out Z51, or currently 55K for a GT500. I'll wait, as I'm a Ford/Shelby guy.

 

And everyone's comments are worthwhile to me, and I enjoy the discussion, so no I don't feel (yet) like i'm getting bashed.

[jaaman]

when the ADM's are gone...the cars are likely to be gone too. The next anniversary Shelby will be the 50th. Remember guys, the 40th anniversary car run will be over in a few months.

 

Right you are.