1-2 shift

[Rachane]

I am absolutely not intending to bust anyone's chops here, but after reading through this entire thread, I get the impression that 1-2 gear-grinding is experienced, sometimes, by those who wind up first gear close to redline, then try to powershift or otherwise quick-slam it into second.

 

While I sympathize with the Mr. Gasser rush of this, some allowance might be made for the transmission & clutch not being designed for this kind of borderline stress, particularly in a car which is planned & built OEM for street & highway use, not professional dragstrip conditions.

 

Part of the pleasure of having an engine with so much power & torque is that you can shift gently at low rpm, then after the clutch is fully engaged, mash the go-pedal and enjoy that delicious feeling of your skeleton trying to push itself out the back of your body.

[JWG223]

I am absolutely not intending to bust anyone's chops here, but after reading through this entire thread, I get the impression that 1-2 gear-grinding is experienced, sometimes, by those who wind up first gear close to redline, then try to powershift or otherwise quick-slam it into second.

 

While I sympathize with the Mr. Gasser rush of this, some allowance might be made for the transmission & clutch not being designed for this kind of borderline stress, particularly in a car which is planned & built OEM for street & highway use, not professional dragstrip conditions.

 

Part of the pleasure of having an engine with so much power & torque is that you can shift gently at low rpm, then after the clutch is fully engaged, mash the go-pedal and enjoy that delicious feeling of your skeleton trying to push itself out the back of your body.

 

 

Indeed. The GT500 wasn't made to be driven hard. More of a daily with a bit of pep, really. Good for tooling families around on shopping day. Has 4 seats, a trunk, nav system and the like. Shifting above 5500 just invites trouble. No need for that nonsense with eggs in the back and children crawling around as they like to do when quibbling in the back seat with one another.

 

However, my one qualm here, is that the Taurus is cheaper and has a larger trunk.

 

I do think this thread should focus on just how inadequate the trunk-space is for a car meant for shopping, soccer games, and camping trips. Also, they forgot the trailer hitch and the PTO.

 

Sigh. More issues.

 

All that being said, and humor being placed neatly aside, I cannot agree less with your synopsis. Ford/SVT designed the car's suspension around VIR and the G2 tire. This implies that YES, it WAS meant to see professional courses, driven by professionals, and YES, the transmission SHOULD be able to be shifted near redline, and YES, there IS a problem that it is giving users (lots of them) fits when they try to do it.

 

What you propose is like unto complaining about owners being upset over a horrid vibration at 80 and then stating it should not matter because the speed limit is 70.

[davegt500]

I am absolutely not intending to bust anyone's chops here, but after reading through this entire thread, I get the impression that 1-2 gear-grinding is experienced, sometimes, by those who wind up first gear close to redline, then try to powershift or otherwise quick-slam it into second.

 

While I sympathize with the Mr. Gasser rush of this, some allowance might be made for the transmission & clutch not being designed for this kind of borderline stress, particularly in a car which is planned & built OEM for street & highway use, not professional dragstrip conditions.

 

Part of the pleasure of having an engine with so much power & torque is that you can shift gently at low rpm, then after the clutch is fully engaged, mash the go-pedal and enjoy that delicious feeling of your skeleton trying to push itself out the back of your body.

 

 

Yep, and yep. All the grinding and hard to shift into 2nd is at high rpm.

[Torched10]

Yep, and yep. All the grinding and hard to shift into 2nd is at high rpm.

 

Ive driven my 65GTO 4spd car for the last 20 years---the old 389 redlines at 5200,so imused to shifting early,guess thats why i dont have the 1-2 issue,yet

[Ezkill]

With this thread it seems that everyone has this problem. The people that are saying they don't have the problem are pretty few and far between in this thread but most are saying they haven't tried to shift the car under aggressive circumstances at high RPM.

 

I wonder how many people actually don't have a problem at all?

 

I've tried to replicate this and I simply can't. I've driven and raced various high powered cars so it's not like I don't know how to shift. I can shift this car hard and fast enough to make the ass end do a little dance even with TC fully on and leave black rubber snaked all over the road. However, I don't get the slightest hesitation or grind going into second. So is this becoming widely accepted as a widespread issue? In reading through this thread it's probably a hardware problem with the synchros ergo each transmission should be the same. Before thinking about any go faster parts I'm going to wait to see if this gets resolved. My car is still under 1k miles and I'm not sure if this will manifest itself later.

[spikedstallion]

With this thread it seems that everyone has this problem. The people that are saying they don't have the problem are pretty few and far between in this thread but most are saying they haven't tried to shift the car under aggressive circumstances at high RPM.

 

I wonder how many people actually don't have a problem at all?

 

I've tried to replicate this and I simply can't. I've driven and raced various high powered cars so it's not like I don't know how to shift. I can shift this car hard and fast enough to make the ass end do a little dance even with TC fully on and leave black rubber snaked all over the road. However, I don't get the slightest hesitation or grind going into second. So is this becoming widely accepted as a widespread issue? In reading through this thread it's probably a hardware problem with the synchros ergo each transmission should be the same. Before thinking about any go faster parts I'm going to wait to see if this gets resolved. My car is still under 1k miles and I'm not sure if this will manifest itself later.

 

 

Ezkill, you shouldnt get it yet! your break in period for any type of racing is after the breakin period of 1000 ! Endured a weeklong ralley race myself with an old 93 lx mustang supercharged, and i also have been drag arcing for the last 10 years, its not in the driver (in most cases)

Peaze outttttt

[JWG223]

With this thread it seems that everyone has this problem. The people that are saying they don't have the problem are pretty few and far between in this thread but most are saying they haven't tried to shift the car under aggressive circumstances at high RPM.

 

I wonder how many people actually don't have a problem at all?

 

I've tried to replicate this and I simply can't. I've driven and raced various high powered cars so it's not like I don't know how to shift. I can shift this car hard and fast enough to make the ass end do a little dance even with TC fully on and leave black rubber snaked all over the road. However, I don't get the slightest hesitation or grind going into second. So is this becoming widely accepted as a widespread issue? In reading through this thread it's probably a hardware problem with the synchros ergo each transmission should be the same. Before thinking about any go faster parts I'm going to wait to see if this gets resolved. My car is still under 1k miles and I'm not sure if this will manifest itself later.

 

 

 

Ever see that video where they show a regular guy throwing a punch vs. a Shaolin master or whatever? The speed of the fist was clocked, etc. I am not saying that the driver disparity is THAT great, but there are lots of variances in between. I think you know where I am going with that.

 

The problem is big enough that Tremec corrected it for GM by designing the 2011YM transmissions for GM with Carbon Cone syncro's.

 

Ford has not said anything about this, while GM has made it widely known.

 

I don't know the significance of that.

[Ezkill]

Ever see that video where they show a regular guy throwing a punch vs. a Shaolin master or whatever? The speed of the fist was clocked, etc. I am not saying that the driver disparity is THAT great, but there are lots of variances in between. I think you know where I am going with that.

 

The problem is big enough that Tremec corrected it for GM by designing the 2011YM transmissions for GM with Carbon Cone syncro's.

 

Ford has not said anything about this, while GM has made it widely known.

 

I don't know the significance of that.

 

Yea you're saying I shift slow.

 

That's not the case though as I have many a basis for comparison and quite simply put I more then hold my own. There seems to be enough evidence to suggest from various polls on other sites that while the problem exists it simply isn't universal. What isn't clear is if I'm one of the lucky ones that got a transmission that plays well or if all of the people in this thread are the unlucky ones. What I mean by that is it's simply not clear what the ratio of good to bad really is. We all know that the people with problems are much more likely to post so is the ratio 9 good transmissions and 1 bad out of every 10 or vice versa.

 

Either way I'm holding off on doing anything at all to my vehicle until this either moves forward or dies. It's getting parked for the winter in a few months anyway so I'll leave it alone for now. No rush anyway since the FRPP kits for the 2011 aren't ready anyway. Local dealer says he can find the in the system but they can't be ordered yet indicating that they should be available shortly. I am of course speaking of the whipple kit.

[darthracer777]

Use the Force when you shift and you'll never grind second or miss a shift !

[L82ford]

darth, even John Force would grind into second in my car - of course he wouldn't care. He'd also still turn a great time because he would probably get the "grind and in" as opposed to the least favorite outcome, the dreaded "grind and rejection."

[Rachane]

All that being said, and humor being placed neatly aside, I cannot agree less with your synopsis. Ford/SVT designed the car's suspension around VIR and the G2 tire. This implies that YES, it WAS meant to see professional courses, driven by professionals, and YES, the transmission SHOULD be able to be shifted near redline, and YES, there IS a problem that it is giving users (lots of them) fits when they try to do it. What you propose is like unto complaining about owners being upset over a horrid vibration at 80 and then stating it should not matter because the speed limit is 70.

Humorous points taken. Over the years I've done a lot of stick-shifting in Ferraris, Maseratis, Astons, & Loti, which absolutely don't want you to slam through any gear change at any rpm. Try that with one of Ferrari's big machine-toothed gates and see how far you [don't] get. Powershift a Lotus and the car will evaporate.

 

I enjoy going very fast, but part of the exhilaration is shifting so smoothly that not even the car notices. A slipped clutch or ground gear is plain bad juju. As noted, to me the excellence of the GT500 is what it will do after everything is nicely locked into any particular gear, not how much you can stress the machinery getting through the change.

 

I'm also old-fashioned enough to hate paddle-shifters with a passion, and automatics leave you nothing to do with your right hand to have fun while driving ... no smart remarks, please!

[MattR]

Humorous points taken. Over the years I've done a lot of stick-shifting in Ferraris, Maseratis, Astons, & Loti, which absolutely don't want you to slam through any gear change at any rpm. Try that with one of Ferrari's big machine-toothed gates and see how far you [don't] get. Powershift a Lotus and the car will evaporate.

 

I enjoy going very fast, but part of the exhilaration is shifting so smoothly that not even the car notices. A slipped clutch or ground gear is plain bad juju. As noted, to me the excellence of the GT500 is what it will do after everything is nicely locked into any particular gear, not how much you can stress the machinery getting through the change.

 

I'm also old-fashioned enough to hate paddle-shifters with a passion, and automatics leave you nothing to do with your right hand to have fun while driving ... no smart remarks, please!

 

 

 

I know nothing about a lotus or a Maserati but I can say that every stick shift car I have ever owned I have been able to shift quickly in a manor that I feel is not hurting my car.

 

Step one let out clutch in first gear get the car going 10mph

 

Put car to floor

 

Run car close to factory redline

 

let off gas

 

push clutch to floor

 

pull shifter into second gear (Except in my Shelby this step is followed by GRIND and a rejection to second gear.)

 

releas clutch

 

put gas to floor and repeat.

 

I have owned 5 stick shift cars prior to this one (driven many more) and have always been able to do a shift in the above way without a problem EVER. And my cars have all had over 100,000 miles when I sold them with the original clutch. I don't think I am wrong for wanting this car to reward me in the same way.

[MattR]

Took mine to the dealer today, Went for a ride with the tranny guy. All he said was (that aint right) as the car totally rejected second gear. They need to call Ford on Monday to see what the next step is.

[Wingrider]

Took mine to the dealer today, Went for a ride with the tranny guy. All he said was (that aint right) as the car totally rejected second gear. They need to call Ford on Monday to see what the next step is.

 

 

What year car and what month was it produced?

 

-Wingrider

[L82ford]

My 3/10 built 2011 goes in on Monday.

[bpmurr]

Guys just remember no matter what the dealer tells you Ford knows about this issue. I spoke to Lynn and the exec office and a plant rep who are aware of the issue. What they do about it is anyones guess.

[texican]

Tested it again this afternoon, except this time a good friend of mine was driving.....it happened at 5000 !

I got in and ran it up to 5500 and it did it to me, but after thinking about it....and paying close attention, I think it's the synchronizers.

 

Pressing in the clutch all the way to the floor allows you to disengage 1st very easy "not so easy if the clutch is not Properly disengaged"' but while the clutch is still pressed in....and after it has disengaged 1st....that is as far as the shifter will go" and it grinds if you try to pull it into 2nd. Sounds Like the synchros.

[jackyl13]

Took mine to the dealer today, Went for a ride with the tranny guy. All he said was (that aint right) as the car totally rejected second gear. They need to call Ford on Monday to see what the next step is.

 

 

Please keep us posted ! I've been in contact with my dealer and they've been absolutely no help !

[shelbynuts]

Just got done reading an article in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords. I ran across this on Tremec trannys. I have no idea if this means anything however a guy by the name of Bob Hanlon rebuilds these trannys for racing and the article talks specifically about the 1-2 and so on grind!!! It states specifically about a component called the "blocker ring" that slows the gears to prepare for the next shift! I wonder, based on the info in this article, if our shifting issue has anything to do with this component not operating in the capacity we want it to! When the shift is hard into 2nd and the gears are not slowed to appropriate syncro-mesh then there is a grind (the little engagement teeth on the gear) which is making the noise. What does anyone else think on this issue. I don't want to mess up the tranny cause I like to get on it.

[kpevin]

Just got done reading an article in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords. I ran across this on Tremec trannys. I have no idea if this means anything however a guy by the name of Bob Hanlon rebuilds these trannys for racing and the article talks specifically about the 1-2 and so on grind!!! It states specifically about a component called the "blocker ring" that slows the gears to prepare for the next shift! I wonder, based on the info in this article, if our shifting issue has anything to do with this component not operating in the capacity we want it to! When the shift is hard into 2nd and the gears are not slowed to appropriate syncro-mesh then there is a grind (the little engagement teeth on the gear) which is making the noise. What does anyone else think on this issue. I don't want to mess up the tranny cause I like to get on it.

 

 

Thats exactly what causes the grind. The slider is going over the teeth on the blocker (syncro) and the 2nd gear hasnt slowed enough, so the steel slider hits the steel engagement teeth on 2nd gear. If you look at how quick the engine accelerates in 1st gear its pretty easy to see why that little blocker has to work pretty hard to slow down the transmission internals to make a clean-fast shift. Especially if you push in the clutch a little early and the RPM flares up when you go to pull 2nd.

 

I believe tremec went from a single cone lined syncro on the T56 1-2 to a double cone non-lined on the 6060. From what I gather they went back to a carbon fiber blocker to fix the 1-2 issues on the Corvettes for 2011. They had the 1-2 grind problem since 2008 but usually only when cold. My 2008 Vette had the cold 1-2 grind, but once warned up you easily speed shift it on the 1-2, never tried to powershift it though to be honest.

[MattR]

My car was built on June 14 car 33771. My car will not shift into second gear at all at anything over 4500 RPM if its under hard acceleration. I always leave off the gas fully and then press the clutch fully to the floor and then try to shift the car. All the tech. said was that in all of his years Ford would never leave me in a car acting like this. I hope they have an easy fix and my car is only down for a short time. Or I'll have to get my 30 year old Z28 out for the rest of the summer.

 

I keep you guys posted. I still would encourage all of you to take somebody at your dealer for a ride to get it documented. They dont have to drive it.

 

By the way mine hade been driven 45 miles in 90 deg. heat when I took the tech for a ride. I never run my car hard when its cold.

[kpevin]

My car was built on June 14 car 33771. My car will not shift into second gear at all at anything over 4500 RPM if its under hard acceleration. I always leave off the gas fully and then press the clutch fully to the floor and then try to shift the car. All the tech. said was that in all of his years Ford would never leave me in a car acting like this. I hope they have an easy fix and my car is only down for a short time. Or I'll have to get my 30 year old Z28 out for the rest of the summer.

 

I keep you guys posted. I still would encourage all of you to take somebody at your dealer for a ride to get it documented. They dont have to drive it.

 

By the way mine hade been driven 45 miles in 90 deg. heat when I took the tech for a ride. I never run my car hard when its cold.

 

 

The cold vette problems were just driving normally not driving hard, my solution was just skipping 2nd altogether until I drove it a few miles,

 

Yours sounds pretty severe, mine only grinds a little if you try to shift fast at higher RPM and it always goes into 2nd, if it was as bad as yours then it would be at the dealer for sure. My guess is they will just put a new 1-2 syncro assembly and 2nd gear in it. I have 4.8 years and 58,000 more miles to wait until Ford comes up with a legit fix and if they dont I probably will have fixed it myself by then

[MattR]

The cold vette problems were just driving normally not driving hard, my solution was just skipping 2nd altogether until I drove it a few miles,

 

Yours sounds pretty severe, mine only grinds a little if you try to shift fast at higher RPM and it always goes into 2nd, if it was as bad as yours then it would be at the dealer for sure. My guess is they will just put a new 1-2 syncro assembly and 2nd gear in it. I have 4.8 years and 58,000 more miles to wait until Ford comes up with a legit fix and if they dont I probably will have fixed it myself by then

 

 

 

yup mine wont shift at all. We have two great tranny shops here in michigan and both told me they can make it shift like butter. D&D and Liberty Gears.

[steve-o-500]

I took my car for a cruise last night and had the grinding issues again. I am going to take it to Ford next week and see what they say.

[bpmurr]

I took my car to the track last night and had the grinding issues again. I am going to take it to Ford next week and see what they say.

 

 

You might not want to talk about track use. It voids your warranty and Ford watches this forum.

[steve-o-500]

You might not want to talk about track use. It voids your warranty and Ford watches this forum.

 

 

thanks for the heads up.

[L82ford]

Well, my 2011 is with the dealer. The Tech working on it couldn't be any nicer, and he seems willing to go to bat for me. His expectations for the performance of this car parallel my own. I think Ford/SVT/Roush (Roush really???) is starting by having him put a clutch in it, but frankly I'm not sure yet. I will report back once I know more. There is no doubt in my mind that SVT is readily aware of these complaints, but I'm not sure if they really see it as a defect or just a characteristic of the tranny (which they're not sure yet how to fix/address).

 

To those of you without a 10' or 11' with this issue, my apologies for continuing this thread.

[jackyl13]

Well, my 2011 is with the dealer. The Tech working on it couldn't be any nicer, and he seems willing to go to bat for me. His expectations for the performance of this car parallel my own. I think Ford/SVT/Roush (Roush really???) is starting by having him put a clutch in it, but frankly I'm not sure yet. I will report back once I know more. There is no doubt in my mind that SVT is readily aware of these complaints, but I'm not sure if they really see it as a defect or just a characteristic of the tranny (which they're not sure yet how to fix/address).

 

To those of you without a 10' or 11' with this issue, my apologies for continuing this thread.

 

Nice to have a dealer that cares !

[Ezareth]

Over 3K miles on mine now. Haven't had the issue in a month now since adjusting my technique and when I'm redline shifting I time my shift with the rev limiter.

 

I'm driving this thing like I stole it, redline shifting every time I'm first at a light with a clear view and no traffic ahead of me.

 

I'm going to try to get a camera mount in a week or so and make a video of it and see if I can get a shot of the speedo and shift knob. I KNOW I'm not what you'd call a pro shifter as my launch times suck, and I tend to keep my foot on the gas while disengaging/engaging the clutch, and maybe it's stupid to time it with the rev limiter, but it works for me and while it is the hardest gear to shift into, it isn't THAT hard and it doesn't really resist it, it is just harder to shift than the rest of the gears.

 

I know based on what I've read here there are definately some people with problems, especially the guy who said he's getting it at 5K rpm. 5K RPM shifts I don't even think about and it goes into gear smooth as hell.

 

My car was built on April 8th.

[texican]

Seems to me that this is NOT a design fault or "feature" of this new transmission, or else ALL of them would have the issue if they were built the same.

 

It's more likely that a random fault is showing up like (faulty internal parts, torque spec, human error, etc...)

 

My 2010 SHELBY has had the problem since day 1 and was born in (NOV 2009).

Here are a few carefully documented and studied observations ---> After the 1st few times it happened, I started taking careful notes.

 

It grinds when shifting between 1-2 gear at high RPMs

When it grinds, it USUALLY does NOT go into gear until the engine speed slows down regardless of clutch position.

It does (sometimes) grind below a 5K shift (very rare but it has happened a couple of times)

At first....It appears to be happening less frequent (problem going away), but I noticed that I was working around the problem and leaving the clutch engaged longer than normal and letting my foot off the gas until engine speed has slowed significantly.

The grind ONLY happens between 1-2

Sometimes the shift from 4-5 is very difficult at higher than average speeds (is it just me or is anyone else seeing this?)

 

 

It's very clear that it's NOT a "feature" of this new transmission, or else ALL of them would have the issue, not just a few. some people can intentionally abuse their transmission and shift at 6000 and NEVER see this problem. If it were a (flawed design), then they would ALL have the problem if they were all built the same. It's apparent that it is something else that shows up randomly and the only way to fix it is to have SVT engineers inspect 10 or more cars that are reporting the issue. Ford needs to offer the team that finds the cause of the problem 2 weeks in Hawaii.

 

My car is still awesome, even with this new (redline shift feature)