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No Love For the Turbo?


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and PLEASE for the sake off all our sanity no debates of parasitic belt driven lag vs turbo lag.

 

I'm a HUGE fan of American Muscle, this is my 4th mustang and i also own a 71 T-Bird 429 open headers with modern body modifications. But............one of my joys in life is hearing a turbo spool and a blow off valve release back pressure.

 

Perhaps my background in import building is the cause of this. Throwing Nissan RB26DETTN1 motors into Hondas to make to run 10's. The RB26DETT N1 was a twin turbo Nismo rebuild of the a stock RB26DETT Skyline Motor. Ive seen modified versions of this motor even produce 1500+ horsepower. See i can't stop myself from talking about them!

 

For me a driving a car without a Turbo and blow off valve is like listening to a band with no drums. It can still hold a beat perfectly fine but theres something missing to my ears.

 

Why is it we lean towards the supercharger route so much more often with Mustangs? Is it out of American muscle tradition? Is it the our engine displacement or slower engine revs that cant spool those turbos quick enough?

 

 

NOTE: i too have traveled the Supercharger route, but often wonder about installing a turbo to see how it is in an SGT.

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I'm a HUGE fan of American Muscle, this is my 4th mustang and i also own a 71 T-Bird 429 open headers with modern body modifications. But............one of my joys in life is hearing a turbo spool and a blow off valve release back pressure.

 

Perhaps my background in import building is the cause of this. Throwing Nissan RB26DETTN1 motors into Hondas to make to run 10's. The RB26DETT N1 was a twin turbo Nismo rebuild of the a stock RB26DETT Skyline Motor. Ive seen modified versions of this motor even produce 1500+ horsepower. See i can't stop myself from talking about them!

 

For me a driving a car without a Turbo and blow off valve is like listening to a band with no drums. It can still hold a beat perfectly fine but theres something missing to my ears.

 

Why is it we lean towards the supercharger route so much more often with Mustangs? Is it out of American muscle tradition? Is it the our engine displacement or slower engine revs that cant spool those turbos quick enough?

 

 

NOTE: i too have traveled the Supercharger route, but often wonder about installing a turbo to see how it is in an SGT.

 

I have owned two cars with turbochargers.

The first was a 1979 Turbo Mustang. It was rare in that it was a carbureted engine, with a turbocharger under the carburetor. It got an AMAZING 135 HP when at full boost. The 70s, gotta love it.

 

The second was a 1986 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. I added an intercooler to is and it got about 220 HP from a 2.3 liter engine. Not too bad for the times.

 

Like you, I love to hear the turbine spool up. I was an Air Force engineer, and I worked on propulsion systems for fighters. So I associate the spooling sound with an anticipated rush of impending power.

 

But, the bad part of the turbo, at least back "then", is the lag....... it just takes too long for the power to come on. When it does, its a kick in the butt, but it still takes a few seconds, and most of the guys here don't want those few seconds to wait.

 

What system I REALLY want is the one that MAD MAX (The Road Warrior) used. He had a supercharger that engaged with a clutch, like an air conditioning compressor. They never really explained how it worked, since I can't imagine how the air wasn't cut off when the Supercharger wasn't spinning. Maybe there was some sort of air bypass.....Who knows? It just looked cool!

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I would not want the lag; and I believe an s/c Mustang will produce more torque at the bottom rpm's correct?

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There are turbo kits out there. Somwhere on this forum is a link to a you tube video of a Shelby GT with a turbo. Also, Evolution performance put a twin turbo on a Shelby GT500. I think they have the video in the vendor section or on their web site.

 

Why the market dominance of superchargers. I don't know somebody smarter than I can answer that for you.

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I truly believe the market dominance of superchargers is out of tradition for American muscle. I know they both have their ups and downs, and in my mind, god created turbos and superchargers as equals heh.

 

i was simply pondering the wonders of forced induction this morning.

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I'm a HUGE fan of American Muscle, this is my 4th mustang and i also own a 71 T-Bird 429 open headers with modern body modifications. But............one of my joys in life is hearing a turbo spool and a blow off valve release back pressure.

 

Perhaps my background in import building is the cause of this. Throwing Nissan RB26DETTN1 motors into Hondas to make to run 10's. The RB26DETT N1 was a twin turbo Nismo rebuild of the a stock RB26DETT Skyline Motor. Ive seen modified versions of this motor even produce 1500+ horsepower. See i can't stop myself from talking about them!

 

For me a driving a car without a Turbo and blow off valve is like listening to a band with no drums. It can still hold a beat perfectly fine but theres something missing to my ears.

 

Why is it we lean towards the supercharger route so much more often with Mustangs? Is it out of American muscle tradition? Is it the our engine displacement or slower engine revs that cant spool those turbos quick enough?

 

 

NOTE: i too have traveled the Supercharger route, but often wonder about installing a turbo to see how it is in an SGT.

 

Turbos are nice and make better power. If your interested in a slighty used kit for your SGT let me know.

Picture011.jpg

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Turbos are nice and make better power. If your interested in a slighty used kit for your SGT let me know.

Picture011.jpg

 

 

thank you for the offer but I've actually got a small army of turbos sitting in the garage still :)

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I truly believe the market dominance of superchargers is out of tradition for American muscle. I know they both have their ups and downs, and in my mind, god created turbos and superchargers as equals heh.

 

i was simply pondering the wonders of forced induction this morning.

 

 

My experience with superchargers isnt much, but I do know a bit about turbochargers, both automotive and aircraft. In general, the main issue with turbochargers in the early days was more of reliability and maintenance. Early turbochargers had a problem with cooked bearings because of inadequate oil supply. A lot of it was coming at shutdown, where someone would turn off the engine and starve the turbo bearings of oil pressure while it was still spinning pretty fast. Manufacturers recommended that a car be idled for a minute or too before shutting down the engine to avoid cooking the bearings. I think most OEM turbos now provide a cooling jacket of engine oil and coolant to avoid this early issue. Also, remember, the turbocharger turbine is sitting in the exhaust stream and close to the exhaust manifold. They take a real beating. Nowadays, I believe the metals and ceramics used are much more capable than the early days. So, I think turbochargers just may still have a bad rap from old expereince.

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My experience with superchargers isnt much, but I do know a bit about turbochargers, both automotive and aircraft. In general, the main issue with turbochargers in the early days was more of reliability and maintenance. Early turbochargers had a problem with cooked bearings because of inadequate oil supply. A lot of it was coming at shutdown, where someone would turn off the engine and starve the turbo bearings of oil pressure while it was still spinning pretty fast. Manufacturers recommended that a car be idled for a minute or too before shutting down the engine to avoid cooking the bearings. I think most OEM turbos now provide a cooling jacket of engine oil and coolant to avoid this early issue. Also, remember, the turbocharger turbine is sitting in the exhaust stream and close to the exhaust manifold. They take a real beating. Nowadays, I believe the metals and ceramics used are much more capable than the early days. So, I think turbochargers just may still have a bad rap from old expereince.

 

turbo diesels suffer from the same bad rap - modern ones are much peppier, quieter, and make less pollution

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This is my first Supercharger and I love it. The only Turbo car I have had is a Saab 9000 that with a chip made a ton of Power and I could not kill that engine. Anyway, I did love the Turbo for the reasons you mention, but like the sound of the Supercharger just as much and I do not have lag now.

 

Just my opinion, but any Turbo I have seen that is modded has problems and needs tuning/attention often. Maybe this is me thinking of my old Porsche days, when I took my car in I always asked why there were so many Turbo's in the shop. They said because they all want more power and that means a lot of time in the shop.

 

Also I was only looking at option that could be registered.

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Guest hfrosso

What system I REALLY want is the one that MAD MAX (The Road Warrior) used. He had a supercharger that engaged with a clutch, like an air conditioning compressor. They never really explained how it worked, since I can't imagine how the air wasn't cut off when the Supercharger wasn't spinning. Maybe there was some sort of air bypass.....Who knows? It just looked cool!

 

 

 

Everytime i watch that movie i can't help but wonder the same thing!!!!!

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What system I REALLY want is the one that MAD MAX (The Road Warrior) used. He had a supercharger that engaged with a clutch, like an air conditioning compressor. They never really explained how it worked, since I can't imagine how the air wasn't cut off when the Supercharger wasn't spinning. Maybe there was some sort of air bypass.....Who knows? It just looked cool!

 

 

 

Everytime i watch that movie i can't help but wonder the same thing!!!!!

 

cable clutch and a simple flapper bypass would work just fine, would be simple and extremely easy to do....on an electronic engine though...hehehehe hope you have a good therapist cause the nightmare will never end :hysterical:

 

would have to be an old school no electronics unless you build an ecu that had a VERY wide function range and was fast, would need to be able to sense the supercharger engaging.

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cable clutch and a simple flapper bypass would work just fine, would be simple and extremely easy to do....on an electronic engine though...hehehehe hope you have a good therapist cause the nightmare will never end :hysterical:

 

would have to be an old school no electronics unless you build an ecu that had a VERY wide function range and was fast, would need to be able to sense the supercharger engaging.

 

 

Thanks a lot... You just ruined the freakin' movie for me :slapfight:

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I drove a '71 Mach 1 with a 351, a c6 and a blow through turbo system that a friend lent me for about 2-3 months when I was a senior in high school...cool friend huh?

 

That car was quick and fun. Another friend had a horrifyingly fast 240z with a big turbo and a serious clutch problem...all the time. The whole car shook when that thing spun up...

 

I have 5 diesel engines currently with turbos they are cool. My twin marine diesels under load have a terriffic whine! I have had no issues knock on wood with them all.

 

I have 2 S/C's in my life...I like S/C'd gas engines...

 

many diesels have supercharged and turbo'd intakes...very cool.

 

I think that the s/c'd kits are more common thus more popular?

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turbo diesels suffer from the same bad rap - modern ones are much peppier, quieter, and make less pollution

I have an 08 F-350 King Ranch turbo Powerstroke diesel. The boost is awesome. The engine is extremely powerful.

However, at a stop, the lag is incredibly irritating. When it kicks in, it kicks in hard and fast, thrusting everyone back. But the wait seems like an eternity when you really really want it to go right now.

Can anyone tell me if the lag is similar in a turboed SGT? If not, why? I've considered turbos vs. a Paxton Novi, but after buying this truck, I'm sold on the Novi (for now).

 

Ken

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i wonder if anyone has ever tried to use pneumatic turbos that hold boost at a constant super high boost levels. I grew up on a tomato farm :)

 

i guess they would be called Pneumatic Turbos?

Jam a compressor hose down the intake of any old 302, then stand back! It'll run like all hell for a few seconds.

I've often wondered about a metered pneumatic setup and whether it would be feasible. At the very least, an aux powered compressor could jam the boost off the line, eliminating the conventional turbo's lag. I dunno, my head hurts.

 

Ken

 

p.s. I'm in Sac, you're in Davis.

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in the shop i believe we might still have an old turbo off a Caterpiller that runs a constant boost of 100psi. It'd stick out the hood about a foot and a half and surely blow up the engine in 2 seconds, but imagine the dyno numbers!

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