mkbehm Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 This is one of the first things I'll do when mine gets here. The tire pressure stays consistant from 100 to -40 degrees and and your tires will run cooler. Some people even claim a better ride! It's the same inert gas that they put in shocks. I used to snowmobile alot and the trailer had them little 8" tires, and when you were going down the Interstate @ 80mph they were doing about 120 and would get very hot even in the winter. I saw a lot of blowouts! After I started putting Nitrogen in them I never had any more problems again. i se Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supe Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I filled these with Nitrogen to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkbehm Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 O' yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 This is one of the first things I'll do when mine gets here. The tire pressure stays consistant from 100 to -40 degrees and and your tires will run cooler. Some people even claim a better ride! It's the same inert gas that they put in shocks. I used to snowmobile alot and the trailer had them little 8" tires, and when you were going down the Interstate @ 80mph they were doing about 120 and would get very hot even in the winter. I saw a lot of blowouts! After I started putting Nitrogen in them I never had any more problems again. i se This is currently done in most racing series to control the tire more for consistant lap times, plus you don't worry about moisture getting in the tire or building up additional psi when the tire gets hot from friction. :burnout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have access to the stuff as we use it on A/C tires and oleo's but for different reasons. Simply because it doesn't support combustion. Occasionally a hot brakes situation can cause an aircraft wheel and tire explosion. I agree that the tire pressure may be slightly more consistant, buth the facts show that most tires lose about 1 lb of pressure for every 10 deg F. or 5 deg. C temperature drop. Unless you have access to a nitrogen generator with an ATM card on it, I think that the best gain is to get a very high quality tire pressure gauge and check it at least weekly and more often in cold weather. Recent numbers indicate that as many as 90% of all cars on the road have at least one underinflated tire. Hence the govt mandated TPS in your car. The wasted fuel is pretty substantial. And that nitrogen is expensive stuff considering it is going to leak out no matter what and the air we breath is about 80% nitrogen anyway. I have had to use it to power air tools on the flightline(it is difficult to run a 600 ft air hose, so we occasionally use the zwik or nitrogen cart) and the bill gets pretty big, pretty fast. About 50/75 cents a pound in bulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy23c Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Wow, that adds up. And I was going to go with helium to compensate for unsprung weight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpretzel Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Wow, that adds up. And I was going to go with helium to compensate for unsprung weight! ...or hydrogen...lower atomic weight. Of course the whole extreme flammability might cause unexpected tire explosions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
150man Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Do not all gases obey the same laws? That would mean tire pressure would go up and down the same with changes in temperature no matter what kind of gas was in them. I've read that nitrogen is placed in aircraft tires becasue it doesn't diffuse through the rubber as fast because it is a bigger molecule. That way they don't have to be aired up as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpretzel Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Do not all gases obey the same laws? That would mean tire pressure would go up and down the same with changes in temperature no matter what kind of gas was in them. I'm no chemist, but I believe you may be partially right. Just thinking about it logically, a molecule with a higher specific gravity would take more energy to cause a level of excitability that results in a pressure increase equivalent to that of a lighter molecule. Therefore the larger molecule will not result is as extreme of a pressure change due to temperature change. So, yes, you still get pressure changes, but not has much as air. Just a thought...I may be completely wrong. Edit 1:On second thought, since normal "air" is 80% nitrogen, how much of a difference are we talking about anyway? Edit 2: And, oxygen has a higher atomic weight than nitrogen, so i guess my whole theory is shot to he!!. I'll go sit in the corner now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I'm no chemist, but I believe you may be partially right. Just thinking about it logically, a molecule with a higher specific gravity would take more energy to cause a level of excitability that results in a pressure increase equivalent to that of a lighter molecule. Therefore the larger molecule will not result is as extreme of a pressure change due to temperature change. So, yes, you still get pressure changes, but not has much as air. Just a thought...I may be completely wrong. On second thought, since normal "air" is 80% nitrogen, how much of a difference are we talking about anyway? The factor is simple volume for a given temperature. And of course the reason that purchased pure Nitrogen is less responsive to changes in temp is not its chemical makeup, but the fact that your $100 of nitrogen is filtered of H2O! Water is amongst the most reactive molecules(hydrogen and oxygen) in the universe, and as such quite sensitive to heat/expansion and cooling/contraction by volume. If you have good filtered and water separated compressed air, I don't think you would see any differance between the two. Molecular loss is a non factor until you compress it to dozens or hundreds of times ambient air pressure. An example of a problem is the hydrogen storage question. The simplest molecule stored at extreme pressure is the biggest impedement to using Hydrogen as a transprt fuel. The shipment/ storage losses add up to almost 40% fo the total volume right now! Thats expensive when the stuff is so energy intensive to strip it from its reactive siblings. It makes sense when you consider that by definition, any molecule used in the storage medium must be bigger than the material your storing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP GT 500 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Do not all gases obey the same laws? That would mean tire pressure would go up and down the same with changes in temperature no matter what kind of gas was in them. I've read that nitrogen is placed in aircraft tires becasue it doesn't diffuse through the rubber as fast because it is a bigger molecule. That way they don't have to be aired up as often. Good point! At relatively low pressures like, tire pressure, ideal gas laws apply. So the one of the real advantages is that nitrogen is 0% moisture so there is no chance of water condensation or evaporation when the temperature of the tire changes. If we could have dry air with 0% moisture installed in the tires it would have about the same basic effect, because air is 79% Nitrogen and 20.9% Oxygen. Regardless what the Nitrogen advocates say I think that dry air will diffuse through the rubber slower. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpretzel Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 So, if I inflated my tires with my scuba tanks, I should be good to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Do not all gases obey the same laws? That would mean tire pressure would go up and down the same with changes in temperature no matter what kind of gas was in them. I've read that nitrogen is placed in aircraft tires becasue it doesn't diffuse through the rubber as fast because it is a bigger molecule. That way they don't have to be aired up as often. I posted a lengthy response on this issue months ago...not sure where it is now. I worked in the tire business for 8 years. My experience is that the loss of gas from a tire (whether it's air or nitrogen) is MOSTLY (not all, but MOSTLY) due to leakage around the tire at the rim. The leakage is very slow on new vehicles, as the seal between rim and tire is very solid. On older vehicles, the rim becomes corroded/rusted, allowing for more of such leakage. Interestingly, the corrosion/leakage effect is caused by water vapor in the gas if you use air. This is where Nitrogen really shines...there is no oxygen available for the corrosion process. In summary, I believe the main advantage to Nitrogen is the prevention of rim corrosion that can happen over many years...and thus lead to faster leaks. I'm not convinced about this thing related to "when temperates change by X degrees, you lose Y psi of air". If it's only based on temperature, then you'd regain that air pressure when the weather got warmer in the spring...which means you'd have to let air OUT of your tires....and I have rarely seen this happen. I'm not saying pressure doesn't drop with decreased temps....but I'm saying that MOST of the pressure loss is due to leakage rather than temperature changes. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP GT 500 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I posted a lengthy response on this issue months ago...not sure where it is now. I worked in the tire business for 8 years. My experience is that the loss of gas from a tire (whether it's air or nitrogen) is MOSTLY (not all, but MOSTLY) due to leakage around the tire at the rim. The leakage is very slow on new vehicles, as the seal between rim and tire is very solid. On older vehicles, the rim becomes corroded/rusted, allowing for more of such leakage. Interestingly, the corrosion/leakage effect is caused by water vapor in the gas if you use air. This is where Nitrogen really shines...there is no oxygen available for the corrosion process. In summary, I believe the main advantage to Nitrogen is the prevention of rim corrosion that can happen over many years...and thus lead to faster leaks. I'm not convinced about this thing related to "when temperates change by X degrees, you lose Y psi of air". If it's only based on temperature, then you'd regain that air pressure when the weather got warmer in the spring...which means you'd have to let air OUT of your tires....and I have rarely seen this happen. I'm not saying pressure doesn't drop with decreased temps....but I'm saying that MOST of the pressure loss is due to leakage rather than temperature changes. Dave Dave, I think you are right but with today's wheel alloys (pun intended) corrosion from oxidation should be minimal. If we lived in a perfect (no leak) world then you would have to let a small amount of air out of your tires when the ambient temperature increased. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSteeds Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Recent numbers indicate that as many as 90% of all cars on the road have at least one underinflated tire. Hence the govt mandated TPS in your car. The wasted fuel is pretty substantial. The TPS is not govt. mandated. If it were, you'd see it on all cars, which isn't the case. It's on the Shelby (and the Vette, IIRC) because we have no spare. No spare = more risk, hence more reason to be aware of your tire pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel-b001 Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 I filled these with Nitrogen to.... Do they ever get hot even though they look hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 The TPS is not govt. mandated. If it were, you'd see it on all cars, which isn't the case. It's on the Shelby (and the Vette, IIRC) because we have no spare. No spare = more risk, hence more reason to be aware of your tire pressure. "The tire pressure monitoring system was required by Congress when it enacted the Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability, and Documentation (TREAD) Act in 2000. The new regulation can be found at: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/ruling...le.6.html" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSteeds Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 "The tire pressure monitoring system was required by Congress when it enacted the Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability, and Documentation (TREAD) Act in 2000. The new regulation can be found at: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/ruling...le.6.html" I stand corrected! The link doesn't seem to work for me, but I did some searching and turned up similar documents. TPMS isn't required until the 2007 model year, but is being phased in to some models early. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 I stand corrected! The link doesn't seem to work for me, but I did some searching and turned up similar documents. TPMS isn't required until the 2007 model year, but is being phased in to some models early. Thanks for the info. No problem. Sorry about the banging head. I still think the TPS is a better idea than really expensive and heavy runflats. I have to think they make some tradoffs in performance as well due to the reinforced sidewalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Its a rip off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I stand corrected! The link doesn't seem to work for me, but I did some searching and turned up similar documents. TPMS isn't required until the 2007 model year, but is being phased in to some models early. Thanks for the info. They moved the page. Here it is. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/ruling...ve_summary.html I work for nhtsa...so I went and talked to the web guy and got the new address. JUST KIDDING. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDoc Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Come on, guys..... air is 80% nitrogen just use a filtered air compressor to take care of the moisture issue. what's next.... are we gonna use lighter paint on the cars to save a few ounces of weight? maybe some of the engineering types could execute boyle's law for air and for nitrogen and tell us exactly what the difference would be under reasonable temp ranges? (I do not plan on driving my car at -40 degrees).... maybe 20 to 100 degrees F ? this is an insignificant difference. you are better off spending $20 on a good quality wax (that will reduce the drag on your car's surface at high speeds).... and make it look better at the same time! JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSteeds Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 No problem. Sorry about the banging head. I still think the TPS is a better idea than really expensive and heavy runflats. I have to think they make some tradoffs in performance as well due to the reinforced sidewalls. I've always thought a TPMS was a fantastic idea. In fact, I bought an aftermarket one from Tire Rack and have it installed on my '98 Cobra. It works great, except that the idiot tire jockeys break it every time they mount/dismount a tire. They've bought me 2 brand new sensors so far, because even though I tell them it's on there, they can't seem to figure out what it is and mess with it. I know that the Corvettes with the run-flat tires have a TPMS, since you can't tell by looking at the tire that it's at 0 psi, and you'll wear them out a whole lot faster if they aren't inflated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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