Chip Beck's take on the Car & Driver article.

[ChipBeck]

Gentlemen,

 

In the late 1970s and all through the 1980s every single Harley-Davidson tested by the major motorcycle magazines was slammed. Too slow, too heavy, too unreliable, too leaky, too whatever. These wizards of the stat sheet weren't bright enough to recognize why most Americans purchased motorcycles. Year after year Harley-Davidson gained market share at the expense of those Japanese rivals that the motorcycle magazines told us were so superior. The editors could see a zero to 60 time and a quarter mile E.T., but they were blind to the history, heritage, character, and soul that defined Harley-Davidson and made its products so satisfying to the ever growing legions of the faithful who would ride nothing else.

 

Harley-Davidson's success appeared to confuse and sometimes even aggravate the big egos of the motorcycle press. How could so many motorcyclists be so stupid? We've laid all of our brilliance out for them in the pages of our magazine and they're not bright enough to see it!

 

But the faithful were not blind. They could see clearly those things that really mattered, their ranks swelled, and Harley Davidson became the largest selling large displacement motorcycle brand in the world.

 

And so it is with the Ford Motor Company and its coveted Shelbys. A World Championship heritage, history, soul, and desire cannot be measured on a dyno or with a stopwatch. It cannot be felt by the seat of one's pants. The pride that wells up every morning when the garage lights go on and an owner views his very special Mustang that carries with it a racing heritage that stretches from Riverside to Le Mans's, is felt in an owner's heart.

 

But a young kid trying to make a name for himself as a magazine writer is blind to all of this. These stopwatch and typewriter jockeys hurl what they believe is brilliant cynicism at the unwashed motoring masses. Surely, we will recognize their superior knowledge. But the collective wisdom and vision of American auto enthusiasts is even sharper and enables them to see that the writings of such pompous little editorial Emperors....have no clothes.

 

Chip

[08SGT1977]

[DDT]

Right on!!!!!!!!!

 

To bad C&D doesn't get it.............

[Torch40]

Well written and well said.

[COBRA SCOTTY]

Well said Chip,

 

and another tally in the idiot collum for Car and Driver magazine and Editor.

[switz]

I agree with you Chip. However, a recent article pointed out that Harley is way down in sales. Some of the decline is obviously the economy; a large portion is not. The article stated that young adults see Harley as the bike their father drove and not the great American icon that it is. I have driven/owned Harley's all my life and have never owned a rice-rocket but the point the article makes sense.

 

I would like to know how old the person is who wrote the slam on Shelby. Perhaps there is some of the same prejudices here: "These are the cars my old man drove, I want an import that sounds like a bee."

 

It's too bad that this type of journalism is allowed but that is the reality we live in. This is what folks are used to now.

[moabman]

Good analysis Chip.

 

Harley may be down in sales because they are saturating their market. However, the nostalgia and symbolism will transcend generations and after a while, their sales will increase again.

 

Just to show that history does repeat itself, Chevy is late again to the party. After all, these cars are known as pony cars not camaro cars. It seems that another way history is repeating itself is the horsepower issue. Chevy has always generated more (claimed) horsepower than Ford at equal displacements and designs and I have always wondered if that was due to Chevy being more aggressive on their setups and tunes or monkeying with the specs or both. I know that in the real world, the performance is more equal than the specs lead us to believe.

 

For me, however, it does not matter - I love Fords and can't wait for the Coyote!

[switz]

Good analysis Chip.

 

Harley may be down in sales because they are saturating their market. However, the nostalgia and symbolism will transcend generations and after a while, their sales will increase again.

 

I hope so as I said, I am a big fan of Harley's. With that said, I never really thought about it prior to reading the article but can use the information in regards to the police department that I just retired from. Of the guys that owned bikes, us old farts owned Harley's and ALL the younger guys that had bikes had rice-rockets. Not one owned a harley.

[sportscars]

I have no "stats" per se, however whenever I stop by one of the local harley dealers here I always see a good crowd of younger guys in there. I think that most of the owners are older but this may have more to due with disposible income than with brand. You can buy an import for less than you can buy a Harley.

 

Chip, as usual, you are an informed, logical, well spoken man. I always enjoy your posts.

[YZD263]

Great post Chip! Very well stated. Nice to see also that so far, other reviews of the 2010 GT500 have been quite positive.

[mywickedshelby]

Always seem to enjoy and agree with your perspective Chip, thanks for another great post.

[MY500SS]

Well said Chip.

 

Hmmmm, I think you could write a enthusiast opinion article for C&D.

[ejrail]

Chip,

Well stated. I had to wait over 40 years to put a legend in my garage . I am still in awe every time I flip on the light switch. :happy feet:

 

I'll bet Shelbys were around long before most of these C&D writers were born and will be around a long time after they're gone. Can they say that about their beloved ricers and Beemers? What kind of heritage comes with a Civic with NOs?

[KingCobra666]

Thanks Chip, you hit the nail on the head.

 

Some people don't get it and they probably never will. We are just lucky that there are some guys at Ford that felt the same as we do.

 

KC666

[Vette Killer]

Great viewpoint, re: the HD reference.

 

Two concerns with the article; I like to read performance car reviews because of fact based information and not the writer's predujices. Disappointing for them to feel that ageism comments about a legend in performance car development and racial slurs against the current engineering lead are ok.

[SGT/SC#0471]

All I can say is that I agree with you somewhat and I disagree with you somewhat Chip...I will leave it at that.

 

 

 

And although he once owned a Honda Dealership Evel (RIP) knew what was really cool:

 

 

 

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/...&objkey=175

 

 

And he kept his word.

[ChipBeck]

.....I disagree with you somewhat Chip...I will leave it at that.

 

McCoy,

 

Are you defending the C&D article, the slams to Hameedi or Shelby, or you don't think H-D marketshare rose dramatically despite lousy magazine coverage? Or did I miss on all counts? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Many years ago Evil Knievel lived right next door to my home in North Scottsdale. He built a second exact duplicate of that XR-750 displayed in that link you posted. He loaned it to a mutual friend of ours named Buddy Stubbs. Buddy is the largest Harley-Davidson dealer in Arizona and he put that bike on display in the showroom of his Harley-Davidson dealership in north Phoenix. When he died he left that motorcycle to Buddy Stubbs in his will. It is still on display there today.

 

Chip

[SGT/SC#0471]

McCoy,

 

Are you defending the C&D article, the slams to Hameedi or Shelby, or you don't think H-D marketshare rose dramatically despite lousy magazine coverage? Or did I miss on all counts? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Many years ago Evil Knievel lived right next door to my home in North Scottsdale. He built a second exact duplicate of that XR-750 displayed in that link you posted. He loaned it to a mutual friend of ours named Buddy Stubbs. Buddy is the largest Harley-Davidson dealer in Arizona and he put that bike on display in the showroom of his Harley-Davidson dealership in north Phoenix. When he died he left that motorcycle to Buddy Stubbs in his will. It is still on display there today.

 

Chip

 

 

That C&D article was beyond ignorant.

 

I think the hordes of newly minted "bikers" are very unlike the folks I have met who have bought new Shelby's and who work for SAI now. Far too many poser know it all "bikers" who could not change a sparkplug and who do not know the meaning of keeping thier word on 30k motorcycles. Or even understanding the machines. Let alone know how to ride them.

 

HD marketshare rose due to all the hype given to them by everyone, tv, movies, all except sportbike rags and thats what we have here in our C&D writer, an import enthusiast giving his bs about something he does not understand...

 

The Shelby cars of today live up to the History fully. And so does the organization, SAI has kept its word and has built great cars...

 

The average Shelby owner I have met respect the cars and the history. And so far I have not seen a bunch of owners in the hot sun wearing leather pants at Ford dealers and looking rather goofy...

 

 

The analogy to HD is a good one but the amount of goofballs who own them now are huge unlike Shelby enthusists IMO. Some people should not ride motorcycles they are dangerous. The highest premiums for insurance for MC's I was told was for the over 50 first time HD owners and 20 year old crotch rocket guys.

 

Seems the Shelby owners are all really car guys...thats all I meant. The folks at SAI are as well!

 

I have been around HD's and guys who build their own bikes for many years..the new HD's are great, but man after I ride a new Roadking I still long for an old school HD. Especially the one I built and assembled with traded and mixmatched and handfit parts, its my bike and thats what HD means to me.

 

Not so after I drive my SGT, it just feels right and it is still new...

 

Evel was my absolute hero growing up and I had the album and the poster and I listened to the album over and over, and I rode and rode my motorcycles...

 

USA made stuff is still that unlike anything else...period.

[SGT/SC#0471]

As an aside I'd bet your local dealer does not have sparkplugs or anything for a shovelhead in stock...but then again I also was told that a guy actually pulled up to a HD dealer in his convertible BMW to buy some bolt on chrome goodies and the parts guy saw the dude put on his leather jacket before he walked into the store...this is a true story.

 

I could go on...I get my plugs from NAPA...

[Dunedindon#5481]

You know guys there are always going to be folks who get it and there will always be those that don't no matter what the platform. There are old and young people who understand the heritage and importance of Shelby's cars and there are those who look at our cars as another Mustang with some stripes and a hood scoop. I've seen my share of SGTs and GT500s running around with sub 30 year olds who could care less about what it means to own a Shelby and I have seen just as many old guys who also could care less. I have also met plenty of young and old who cherish our cars.

 

Someone, like the C&D writer could care less about what Shelby means and looks at it as another Mustang that some old guy added some parts to so he could charge a premium. He will never understand what it's all about. He thinks that his Subi or Mitsu will run circles around it and that's what he will always write about. All we can do is appreciate what we have, where it came from and what it means to us in our hearts. It will always be something special to own a part of American automotive history and some of us care about that and some never will.

 

Also, I know that you old school Harley guys just hate seeing the Yuppie class of people riding Harleys but you have to look at the target market Harley has been after for quite a few years. They have specifically targeted their advertising at those upper middle class people who have the disposible income necessary to plop down 20 to 25 large, or more, for a Harley. I know it doesn't sit right with you guys but if it wasn't for those BMW driving people buying Harleys, leather jackets and all those shiny accessories Harley would have been in big trouble years ago. I also know some of those types that love their Harleys, treat them with respect and appreciate what they have and the heritage that comes with owning a legend. You should be thanking them for keeping Harley a viable company and funding the development that has lead to them being one of the longest lasting and most recognizable brands ever.

 

The C&D article sucked but if it did one thing it made me realize how much I appreciate Shelby and even more the fact that I get to own one. Who knows he might have done it just to cause controversy. People love controversy and he sure made a name for himself, at least with us.

 

Don

[SicShelby]

You know guys there are always going to be folks who get it and there will always be those that don't no matter what the platform. There are old and young people who understand the heritage and importance of Shelby's cars and there are those who look at our cars as another Mustang with some stripes and a hood scoop. I've seen my share of SGTs and GT500s running around with sub 30 year olds who could care less about what it means to own a Shelby and I have seen just as many old guys who also could care less. I have also met plenty of young and old who cherish our cars.

 

Someone, like the C&D writer could care less about what Shelby means and looks at it as another Mustang that some old guy added some parts to so he could charge a premium. He will never understand what it's all about. He thinks that his Subi or Mitsu will run circles around it and that's what he will always write about. All we can do is appreciate what we have, where it came from and what it means to us in our hearts. It will always be something special to own a part of American automotive history and some of us care about that and some never will.

 

Also, I know that you old school Harley guys just hate seeing the Yuppie class of people riding Harleys but you have to look at the target market Harley has been after for quite a few years. They have specifically targeted their advertising at those upper middle class people who have the disposible income necessary to plop down 20 to 25 large, or more, for a Harley. I know it doesn't sit right with you guys but if it wasn't for those BMW driving people buying Harleys, leather jackets and all those shiny accessories Harley would have been in big trouble years ago. I also know some of those types that love their Harleys, treat them with respect and appreciate what they have and the heritage that comes with owning a legend. You should be thanking them for keeping Harley a viable company and funding the development that has lead to them being one of the longest lasting and most recognizable brands ever.

 

The C&D article sucked but if it did one thing it made me realize how much I appreciate Shelby and even more the fact that I get to own one. Who knows he might have done it just to cause controversy. People love controversy and he sure made a name for himself, at least with us.

 

Don

 

I really agree with you - the C/D writer may just have been... disinterested in what Shelby was really all about. On the other hand, I still can't escape the fact that the article was written in a way that had a very negative connotation. If C/D was true to reviews and really cared about buyers who read the magazine to get advice, I think someone would have threw up the flag before the article was printed. So yes, the write definitely didn't give merit to Shelby, and neither did the other retards that read/approved the article to be printed, and THAT is even more unfortunate, know? How many people read C/D really know about Shelby? Now THEY have a bad taste in their mouth, as opposed to them really learning something about the pedigree, and Carroll Shelby. I wish C/D was honest due to that fact, as well. It's kind of like "geeze, what are we teaching our children!!"

 

Very well put Don. When are you going to work for C/D to turn it all around?

[CobraCrazy]

Well put Chip!

 

As for the HD comments. . . Don't know if I'm rough enough around the edges to be "old school" yet doubt if I make enough to be considered "yuppie." I bought my first motorcycle when I was 14--my first a Honda 160CL, then a 350, then a Honda 450, and then after a few years of no bike I got a Kawasaki 900--I loved that bike and I used to pass quite a few broke down Harleys alongside the road. And then about 12 years ago all that "hype" that's been mentioned got to me I guess because I saved my pennies just like when I was a kid and bought my first Harley. Now I've had my second Harley for 6 years--it's just a 03 Softail with a few "mods" but it's all I need and I love it. Don't know if I'll ever be as fanatical about Harleys as Fords but I'm close. . . although what HD charges for anything with their name on it gets a bit obscene sometimes; likewise everytime I go on a poker run, or some other HD gathering I feel like I'm at an old folks home--everyone's an old fart like me. . . it's a bit depressing.

CC

[SGT/SC#0471]

"Honesty, Integrety and Morality. Not just words but a lifestyle."

 

That was on the back of a picture of the guy who taught me about HD's. He flew an upside down HD patch on his lower rear jacket as he felt dissed by HD as they chased the yuppies. He also reminded anyone who started tlking about Jessie James that he has a huge dollar bill tattooed on his back and a dollar sign tatted on his palm. It is what it is. My friend did buy a new HD when it was unpopular to do so.

 

I have no opinion on what people buy, personal freedom, but I like the old HD's.

 

The same thing that happened to old muscle cars happened to HD's they got too expensive. Thats why old guys own them. 800 dollar beater Chevelles are gone.

 

Thankfuly that is changing with HD's due to market saturation, I cannot wait until an old HD is worth 5k or less again.

 

Till the hubs rub, make sure your friends will run line or ditch on their word or do not ride with them.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Thanks Chip, you hit the nail on the head.

 

Some people don't get it and they probably never will. We are just lucky that there are some guys at Ford that felt the same as we do.

 

KC666

 

 

We are lucky that some people at Shelby get it dude!

 

I thought about this thread driving my SGT home from a city 40 minutes away in the pouring rain....(can you say throttle control? haha)

 

HD does not have a Shelby. There is no comparison to either a new or old HD or a new or old Shelby.

 

Thankfully they both are still being made.... :happy feet:

[rpmcobra]

I think the analogy between HD and mustang is great and have used it for years.

I think it was C & D that did a test drive of the 2007 GT 500 and the 1/4 mile

time was terrible. I wrote them and asked why they did'nt use a real drag race driver

and why the time's in some of the mustang publication's were so much quicker?

They did respond to me but it was'nt nice.

[turnsignaldelete]

Well, after reading the above Posts, I believe that we, like many others, have and are enjoying the best of both sides of this Topic. I am at the Colorado River, (Arizona/Nevada) for the 27th annual, Laughlin (Nevada), (Harley, an other) River Run, today thru Sunday.

 

Here, at, the 'Arizona Shelby Mustang Stable', we have some of our beloved Shelby's, (vintage and modern), along with some Harleys and yes some, 'Rice Rockets'.

 

As usual there are 10's of thousands of Harleys at this event, and yes other motorcycle brands also. My 21 year old son, and his beloved, 'Gal Pal', will be here with their, own interests. He and she love the new, 'Rice Rockets', and the new Shelby's. They also, enjoy our vintage Shelby's, (smart 'kids')

 

So, IOW we are a Vintage and Modern Family, when it comes to Motor Sports. The weather is perfect, 80 degrees, blue skies. We are here with 40 of our friends to enjoy 4 days, of Bikes,Shelby's,Quads,Wave Runners, and yes of course, BBQ and suds.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Well, after reading the above Posts, I believe that we, like many others, have and are enjoying the best of both sides of this Topic. I am at the Colorado River, (Arizona/Nevada) for the 27th annual, Laughlin (Nevada), (Harley, an other) River Run, today thru Sunday.

 

Here, at, the 'Arizona Shelby Mustang Stable', we have some of our beloved Shelby's, (vintage and modern), along with some Harleys and yes some, 'Rice Rockets'.

 

As usual there are 10's of thousands of Harleys at this event, and yes other motorcycle brands also. My 21 year old son, and his beloved, 'Gal Pal', will be here with their, own interests. He and she love the new, 'Rice Rockets', and the new Shelby's. They also, enjoy our vintage Shelby's, (smart 'kids')

 

So, IOW we are a Vintage and Modern Family, when it comes to Motor Sports. The weather is perfect, 80 degrees, blue skies. We are here with 40 of our friends to enjoy 4 days, of Bikes,Shelby's,Quads,Wave Runners, and yes of course, BBQ and suds.

 

 

Perfect! Thats wht its about...fun !

[SGT/SC#0471]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuCSDFDwkKY

 

Edit:

 

You just can't walk into a HD dealer and buy a Ironhorse like this...and guys I know with bikes like this laugh when someone wants to buy them...I guess thats what I was getting at, its like an appendage to me and everything on it is like a memory of friends here and gone who I rode with and wrenched with along the way, like some sort of talisman or a good luck charm...hard to explain...

 

It has a power and I believe all objects have power, this ones is immediate, it has a presence all its own.

 

To me HD's are nothing like Shelby's except that they are both very very cool. I am very grateful to have both.

 

I went riding last night, and made this video...nothing like this bike...I will ride it until I am dead. The sound of that mill snapping to life in the crisp coast night air is so f@#$ing sweet.

 

It was the first thing I ever owned worth anything...Ate beans and rice for 6 months way back when to buy it on my word from a crusty old Viet Nam vet who bought it new. I like it more than any other vehicle I have owned or own.

 

Chrome won't get you home but black will get you back.

[switz]

Go here to see an article on what I spoke of earlier: Younger folks just are not interested in HD.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Go here to see an article on what I spoke of earlier: Younger folks just are not interested in HD.

 

Or Shelbys, generally speaking, who raised these kids anyways?