My H-Pipe and KR mufflers sound clip

[Tob]

Tob, YES something went terribly wrong. every time you hit the button you payed for an H pipe??? 18 in total! Thanx for the biz. LOL. I'm refunding all but 1 now. Will ship on monday. Sorry and I'll have it fixed as soon as I can get someone who knows how to fix it on the line.

 

Thanks Wes. The wife would have some grounds to complain on if 18 sets showed up at the door. I look forward to doing a thorough write up once I have the pipe in hand.

 

Tob

[Wes K]

Thanks Wes. The wife would have some grounds to complain on if 18 sets showed up at the door. I look forward to doing a thorough write up once I have the pipe in hand.

 

Tob

No prob Tob! Glad I caught it so fast! You will love it and thanx for the business!!!!!!!!

[RayMan]

I'm sorry Ray.....Haven't been on much lately, I dont remember any pm's from you. Anyway good luck and have a nice summer

 

Ron

 

 

Thanks Ron, I have not ever had anyone respond to the email or pm functions on this website. I don't know why.

 

Good timing for the h-pipe sale then. I ordered mine on Sunday.

[Tob]

Probably because it is so hard to find them with the interface used here. Even the bolded red blends in too much.

[Tob]

The h-pipe arrived yesterday. Thanks Wes for your generosity.

 

Now, because I'm Tob, I look a bit deeper into detail and often choose the road less taken. I fully intended to deviate from Wes' intended installation protocol and to weld the pipe in place as opposed to clamping it. I had secured an extra OEM catted x-pipe (via here through Jim Simpson last year) so that I could save my original '09 x-pipe when doing this mod. Deja vu, Rob?

 

 

The OE pipe looks to be a robotically welded assembly that was touched up by humans on an assembly line. My '09 pipe has similar "sloppy" welds.

 

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to cutting off the x portion and was from the moment I got it. So I admit to spending quite a bit of time carefully studying all of the photos Rob posted throughout this thread. So when the h-pipe arrived I gave it a closeup inspection and noticed a few things. As a carpenter/millwright I've developed an eye for symmetry and notice things in detail ( Upon entering most any home, I immediately notice how out of plumb any picture frames are as well as door frames, window frames, cabinet doors, etc. Drives the wife nuts). Standing the pipe on the floor, I immediately noticed that the short, perpendicular section of small diameter pipe was welded into position a bit out of square.

 

 

Rob's pipe looks similar so I figured it to be a jig anomaly. Looking inside the pipe one side is pretty clean save for some minor spatter and burn through (not a leak or hole)

 

 

The other side looked to have been off just a bit, with the cope probably not exactly in the position it was dressed to fit.

 

 

A minor imperfection that I fully intend to dress by hand with a file. I did wonder if the pipes were off (angle wise) due to any of this. So I started comparing the geometry between the stocker and the h-pipe

 

 

To bench the difference at the "narrow" end of the pipe I checked a few dimensions between the two

 

 

 

I measured 2-3/8" vs 2-5/8" or a difference of a quarter inch. I then inverted the h-pipe and laid it over the x-pipe, centering it and splitting the difference between the two.

 

 

It was here that I noticed that the bend radius angles were off a bit from the stock pipe

 

 

 

 

 

I don't doubt that the provided clamps can make up for the angular difference. But as mentioned, my intent is to finish with a fully welded assembly, blending the two together. For verification, I did the same checks with my still installed '09 pipe and found the same differences between the two. Running some quick angular checks, I found the deviation to be between 3* and 4* per side or about 7* difference overall.

 

Wes, I'm wondering if you can make some random checks on some other pipes in stock and see if they coincide with what I have. Please don't take me wrong, I'm not complaining, I'm just verifying the differences. The pipe materials are first rate and the welds on the h-pipe are far better than the factory Ford welds on the x-pipe. But the angular difference adds another step(s) to my plan to weld your pipe in its place a bit more challenging.

 

I can make some minor relief cuts at each radius and then weld them up in order to better match the angles of the factory pipe. I'm thankful to have a nice mig that allows me to do just about anything.

 

And Rob, anyway you can measure at the same spot on your backup OE x-pipe to see how consistent Ford's pipes are?

 

Tob

[Grabber]

Sure tob, I can measure it and get back to you.

 

Any chance a muffler shop can tweak your H-pipe a tad ?

[Tob]

Sure tob, I can measure it and get back to you.

 

Any chance a muffler shop can tweak your H-pipe a tad ?

 

I'm thinking the pipes need to be separate in order to be bent properly or to at least fit into a hydraulic bender. I'm honestly far more comfortable doing some cut/weld work than having a garage monkey play with my pipe.

[Grabber]

Tob,

 

I got the measurement that you wanted. It is 2-5/8".

 

Anyways I was thinking about this because I did not notice that the H-pipe was off a little when I installed mine. I figured that when I cut the pipes on the under side of the car that they then have some play in them because they are loose and they just swing into position to make up a 1/8" +/- on each side. With that being said, couldn't you make your cuts a little long on your pipes and then cut and grind them into the exact fit ?

 

Here's the pic's of the measurements you needed.

 

[RayMan]

Had my h-pipe installed today. Used a local performance shop because I didn't have the correct stands and lifts to get that far under the car safely. Cost me $85 for the install and it took them about a half hour.

 

I agree with Grabber's review... lower tone, slightly less popping, added volume and what a menacing growl on acceleration!

 

I'm happy as a clam!

[Grabber]

Had my h-pipe installed today. Used a local performance shop because I didn't have the correct stands and lifts to get that far under the car safely. Cost me $85 for the install and it took them about a half hour.

 

I agree with Grabber's review... lower tone, slightly less popping, added volume and what a menacing growl on acceleration!

 

I'm happy as a clam!

 

 

Right on Man !!

[Tob]

Rob, thanks for the dimensioning. It confirmed my belief that the factory assembly is a pretty accurate piece.

 

I've been very busy as of late but finally got a moment to rework my mig so that I could use a roll of 308L stainless to make this thing happen. Only problem is I didn't have any Helium in my bottle (just Argon/CO2) so the welds would be a bit more of a challenge. So I started by pulling everything out of my pole barn and got to work.

 

I studied the H-pipe as it overlaid the X-pipe for a bit, moving it as necessary to give me a good idea of where I wanted to make my cuts. I then marked the H-pipe, cutting about 90% circumferentially, with a zip (cut) disc in a 4" grinder. I then was able to bend the H-pipe "tails" so that they were parallel to the factory X pipe. I then tacked, double checked, and welded.

 

 

 

 

Nice part about Wes' H-pipe is that it is plenty thick which made welding a joy. Penetration was nothing less than satisfactory.

 

 

I was then able to lay the two atop one another and determine where I could cut my X-pipe.

 

 

In a perfect world I would have taken the time to fab an elaborate fixture that would hold the pipes in place after I cut them, as I want the pipes to mate as original at the exhaust manifolds. Any rotation or planar shift once cut would only serve to make my "off vehicle" assembly a misfit. So with dark clouds moving in, I made do with what I had on hand. I strategically tacked on some stainless corner guards (left over from a hospital job) so that the assembly wouldn't shift on me. Just as I got ready to cut the sky unloaded rain for almost a half an hour. I simply threw a rubber mat over the work area and waited it out.

 

 

Post H20 drop

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post extrication (not extraction )

 

 

 

 

A near perfect match (foot fetish freaks need not apply)

 

 

As the sun was setting I made quick work of welding the H-pipe to what remained of the X-pipe. I'm pleased with the results.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to add a O2 sensor bung to the pipe before I install it so that I can datalog if I want to. Anyone have a shot of the best location?

 

Tob

[RayMan]

Dang Tob... I wish I had your skills and patience! Nice job, it looks great!

[Tob]

Thanks for the compliment Ray. As for patience...I actually feel as though I rushed things a bit. I just wanted a fully welded assembly, especially since the X-pipe on my '09 doesn't utilize the hangers on it that mate with the rubber supports on the aluminum transmission crossmember. Obviously, the '07 pipes had the extra hangers, and by '09 they were gone (I'm unsure about all 2008 models). I like how the pipes are supported at the rear as in one of Rob's earlier photos...

 

 

Since my '09 has no rubber hanger supports on its crossmember, I didn't want a clamped joint that would essentially be responsible for supporting the exhaust system from the manifolds all the way to the muffler hangers. I know there were some complaints that the early supports had something to do with additional NVH, but I'd still prefer it to be in place were I not to have welded the system together. In fact, I may add the OE crossmember (unless I can find the rubber supports separately and add them to my existing crossmember) and thus utilize the metal hangers that are present on the assembly I just fused together.

 

I just hope that after all I've done that there is some improvement in sound with a minimum of degradation.

 

Tob

[RayMan]

Ok... after a couple of weekends of driving with the new h-pipe setup I have run into a "problem".

 

I have noticed that when I accelerate quickly or go into boost it feels like it's bogging down a bit and then it releases into speed. Today I went into boost and the whole car just bogged down at speed, it kinda scared me. I think I was in third accelerating to about 70. I don't think I was anywhere near when the rev limiter would kick in. In fact, I don't think I have ever even gotten close to red line at anytime, even on the track.

 

Also yesterday I scraped the bottom of my car over a damn bump entering a driveway and it didn't sound nice (metal on concrete). Wasn't going fast, just rolling slowly and it sounded like the car was going to get stuck on this bump, grrrrr. I will go under the car tomorrow and see if there is any damage or loosening of any pieces.

 

Otherwise I can't get over how mean this car now sounds with the KR and h-pipe setup. The sound at acceleration is just plain badass sexy!

 

Any suggestions or ideas are greatly appreciated, thanks guys!

[Grabber]

Your bogging down problem must be your tune or bad gas. It's not the H-Pipe. Sorry to hear you high centered your car. I hope it's OK.

[RayMan]

Thanks Grabber. I did check under the car today and there is no damage to speak of. Looks like it hit right at the bottom of the cat weld. No biggie.

 

I filled up with new gas and took it out for a spin, no bogging to speak of.

 

Another question though...

 

I did notice condensation leaking out of what looks like right at the four clamps of the h-pipe. Would that also mean there would be an exhaust leak in those areas? We checked after the install and I checked the clamps today and everything seems tight. No leaks were detected after the install.

[Grabber]

Thanks Grabber. I did check under the car today and there is no damage to speak of. Looks like it hit right at the bottom of the cat weld. No biggie.

 

I filled up with new gas and took it out for a spin, no bogging to speak of.

 

Another question though...

 

I did notice condensation leaking out of what looks like right at the four clamps of the h-pipe. Would that also mean there would be an exhaust leak in those areas? We checked after the install and I checked the clamps today and everything seems tight. No leaks were detected after the install.

 

I'm glad your new fresh tank of gas cured your problem. As far as the condensation....that is normal. The clamps are exhaust leak free, but a little condensation is normal to come out of there. They all do it....unless you do a full weld like tob.

[RayMan]

I'm glad your new fresh tank of gas cured your problem. As far as the condensation....that is normal. The clamps are exhaust leak free, but a little condensation is normal to come out of there. They all do it....unless you do a full weld like tob.

 

 

Woohoo, glad I don't have to worry about that.

 

Next mods... TVS, HE and radiator upgrades! :happy feet:

[Tob]

Ray, I suspect that the angles your "H-pipe" assembly were bent to didn't match those of your original X-pipe, like mine. This means that the clamps that are used to hold everything together may be utilizing a less than optimum surface area to stop exhaust gases from leaking.

 

I'd check the clamps and see if they can be tightened up any.

 

Tob

[RayMan]

Ray, I suspect that the angles your "H-pipe" assembly were bent to didn't match those of your original X-pipe, like mine. This means that the clamps that are used to hold everything together may be utilizing a less than optimum surface area to stop exhaust gases from leaking.

 

I'd check the clamps and see if they can be tightened up any.

 

Tob

 

 

Thanks Tob, When I checked it this morning everything was tight and secure. I will check it again next time I get under the car. I always check the connections of the cat backs and I'll do the same with the h-pipe.

[Wes K]

This is normall for the H pipe and the clamps arent leaking just letting water escape when they're cold.

 

The 4 clamps allow for any inconsistancy in the h pipe manufaturing for fitment etc. They are cnc cut/bent and man jigged and welded. We designed the system as a SIMPLE bolt-on as to not need welding and most anyone could do it in the garage in about a 1/2 hr. There's lots of forgiveness in the exhaust and mufflers so this was not an issue in the manufacturing. Matter of fact this has only been brought up by Tob and I believe 1 other person from another forum. Hope this helps.

[Grabber]

When I installed my H-Pipe, the car was cold. I let it sit over night on the jacks stands because I did not want to work on a hot car. Anyways, after my installation was complete, I started the car up while it was still in the air. I then went under it while it was running and held my bare hand around all the connections to see if I could feel any leaks. The car was bone cold and it did not take but a minute for the pipes to start to get hot, but during that time I made sure I had no leaks. I also listened carefully by the H-pipe clamps to hear any leaking exhaust noises and I did not hear anything.

 

I was very impressed on how my installation turned out.

 

THANK YOU WES !!!

[Wes K]

No prob Rob

[RayMan]

This is normall for the H pipe and the clamps arent leaking just letting water escape when they're cold.

 

The 4 clamps allow for any inconsistancy in the h pipe manufaturing for fitment etc. They are cnc cut/bent and man jigged and welded. We designed the system as a SIMPLE bolt-on as to not need welding and most anyone could do it in the garage in about a 1/2 hr. There's lots of forgiveness in the exhaust and mufflers so this was not an issue in the manufacturing. Matter of fact this has only been brought up by Tob and I believe 1 other person from another forum. Hope this helps.

 

 

Thanks for the info Wes. I love my h-pipe!

[Tob]

I dropped everything I have going on in my life so that I could finally finish this project. My apologies for taking so long to see how this was going to work.

 

I started by raising the car up about 10" off the floor at each wheel. I studied the factory pipes just aft of the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds, as I wanted to add an O2 sensor bung for some data logging down the road. After reading through a few manuals (PDF's actually) from Innovative, etc, I knew where I shouldn't be putting it. Problem with the 5.4 in the S197 is that there is little choice as to where to do it. The good spots are already taken by the factory sensors, or you are limited because of room for fastener removal or by floorpan interference. I finally settled on a spot on the driver's side.

 

I marked my OE 2009 X-pipe and removed it. I then set that pipe next to my sexy H-pipe assembly and marked it in the same spot. A drill bit or two and some die grinding with a carbide bit for a few moments...

 

 

Couple of things I noticed. The '09 assembly (on the left) had one cat (the cat on our right) looked like the stainless sheet wasn't brushed like all the other cats were. Interesting purple band encircling the area that inside the cat is the void between the two layers of honeycomb media. Also, note that Ford no longer used the hangers by 2009 as used on the early pipe on the right. I want them and will be looking to see if Ford parts and service offers them separately from the crossmember assembly.

 

A few minutes with some 308L wire spooled into my Miller mig and the bung was fused onto my new H-pipe assembly. Welding without any helium in the Argon mix wasn't optimum but at least the penetration was acceptable.

 

 

I was happy to see that the time I took to keep the pipes in position when I cut the X-pipe section out had paid off. The new H-pipe assembly fit like a glove.

 

 

You can see where the hangers would attach to the crossmember but the bushings aren't there. I like the idea of some kind of support beyond either at the exhaust manifold, or all the way back to the other side of the axle housing. That puts a bit of stress on the clamped junction just aft of the H section...

 

 

Once everything was back on and tightened up, I inserted an O2 sensor I had that was for an '87-'93 five liter engine - just to plug the hole until I install a wide band sensor. The next shot is looking up through the control arm on the driver's side.

 

 

Bottom line - the welded assembly fit dead on. The rest of the exhaust system lined up perfectly and slipped right into place. I then cleaned myself up, got behind the wheel and turned the key. Mind you, the only power mod I have is the FRPP CAI kit. I also have the KR mufflers on the car, which had added a little more tone to the car's exhaust but were still a little raspy.

 

Blipping the throttle, while parked up in the air, I immediately noticed some popping and cackling upon deceleration that the car had never done before (at least not audibly). I let the car sit and idle for a good ten minutes and then shut it off. At that point I wasn't that impressed with the change. It wasn't louder, and the sound seemed to have changed little, if any. I lowered the car down and put all my tools away.

 

Road test.

 

Whoa. I had no idea. Rob, as much as I carefully listened to your sound clips (and many others) I never heard anything like what my car now sounded like. The burble/grumble the car emits while under load is nothing less than pure heaven. It is in no way overbearing. Authoritative in a classy, yet powerful way. It is now essentially the same system as the KR used. I never had any idea that KR's sounded this badass.

 

Mr Kallas, thanks for making this pipe available. I know I chose the road less taken, but your pipe made it viable. My face still hurts from the ear to ear grinning at each upshift.

 

Tob

[Grabber]

 

 

Road test.

 

Whoa. I had no idea. Rob, as much as I carefully listened to your sound clips (and many others) I never heard anything like what my car now sounded like. The burble/grumble the car emits while under load is nothing less than pure heaven. It is in no way overbearing. Authoritative in a classy, yet powerful way. It is now essentially the same system as the KR used. I never had any idea that KR's sounded this badass.

 

 

 

I'm so glad you like the results. I know you put allot of work into your set up. I agree with you 100%

 

[Tob]

You know Rob, when you wrote this up I thought...why would you ever change to the H in exchange for a few horsepower?

 

I then ended up going for a ride in a new 6.1 SRT Challenger. That car sounded so much better than mine and I knew at that point how badly I wanted mine to sound like that. Not as good as any fox body I own but much better than any GT500 I had heard.

 

The burble the car now has absolutely garnishes the respect that my car was missing prior to the H-pipe. No wonder Ford dumped the X-pipe and went back to the H. It is the only way to fly!

 

Tob

[Grabber]

I now have the H-Pipe installed on my car. It is very similar to the H-Pipe on the KR. I got it from Powerhouse Racing & Performance. What a quality piece.

 

http://powerhouserp....ntpage&Itemid=1

 

I have the KR Mufflers (Ford racing) on my car as well. Now my car sounds Like a KR.

 

I know you guys want to hear it. So before I post pic's and do a write up on the install I will give you the video / sound clips.

 

Here's the KR mufflers and H-Pipe at idle and some revs.

 

 

Here's the KR mufflers and H-Pipe on a drive. This is what it would sound like if you were riding in the trunk with the trunk open and looking back behind you. Lol.

 

 

 

 

I had to reload my vids in the first post because all my old vid links have been lost during the forum changes.

[Tob]

Be honest Rob. The 'car in the plastic bubble' thing is killing you every time the sun shines. It beckons...Rob...Rob...ride me!

 

[Grabber]

Be honest Rob. The 'car in the plastic bubble' thing is killing you every time the sun shines. It beckons...Rob...Rob...ride me!

 

 

 

I must say that working in AZ makes me feel lik summer has never ended. It's been in the low 90's the last few days and is expected to be in the mid 80's for some time to come. Living out of a suitcase on the road is not fun at all. I would love to have my car out here...but there is no place to put it at the Extend Stay America. I hated to put it into storage on Aug 9th this year. That is killing me.

 

I'm home for the week end again...and it's raining here in WA pretty good. My car is safe and sound in my garage and waiting for Spring. IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG WINTER.....that's for sure !!!