5.4L HP Limit

[richguess]

I am on the waiting list for a 2010 GT500. I have never played with the 5.4L supercharged engine, and I am wondering what kind of power levels I can get out of it before it is advisable to do some internal modifications. Specifically, I am looking at upgrading to one of the Whipple superchargers. Also, at what point would the clutch, driveshaft, differential gears/case, and axleshafts need to be replaced? Thanks for the help.

 

Rich

[Michael Morris]

Welcome to TS Rich!!

 

Theres ALOT of smart guys on here when it comes to the 5.4. Im not going to even try and throw out any lame numbers!!!!

 

But I will say KONI blue with WHITE stripes is going to be BADAZZ!!!!!!!!!

 

 

MM

[08GT500KR]

Welcome to TS Rich!!

 

Theres ALOT of smart guys on here when it comes to the 5.4. Im not going to even try and throw out any lame numbers!!!!

 

But I will say KONI blue with WHITE stripes is going to be BADAZZ!!!!!!!!!

 

 

MM

 

KONA is a awesome color,sad that Vapor is gone.

[richguess]

Welcome to TS Rich!!

 

Theres ALOT of smart guys on here when it comes to the 5.4. Im not going to even try and throw out any lame numbers!!!!

 

But I will say KONI blue with WHITE stripes is going to be BADAZZ!!!!!!!!!

 

 

MM

 

MM,

I really appreciate all the help, and yes, the anticipation is killing me, lol.

 

Rich

[kahmann]

MM,

I really appreciate all the help, and yes, the anticipation is killing me, lol.

 

Rich

There are plenty of guys on TS that are running north of 700 HP with their 5.4's. I've heard of a few guys at over 800 HP also.

As for a specific number, I can't help you, but I'm sure lots of other guys here can. Good luck and congrats!

 

Ken

[idrathergolf]

I am on the waiting list for a 2010 GT500. I have never played with the 5.4L supercharged engine, and I am wondering what kind of power levels I can get out of it before it is advisable to do some internal modifications. Specifically, I am looking at upgrading to one of the Whipple superchargers. Also, at what point would the clutch, driveshaft, differential gears/case, and driveshafts need to be replaced? Thanks for the help.

 

Rich

Stock Clutch: Weak link even in the 2010 model. The clutch is really engineered and designed for 500 lbs of torque. Go with a Spec or McLeod clutch. I am going with the McLeod twin disc clutch eventually when my stock clutch starts to fail in 5K miles.

 

Driveshaft: Not designed for hard launches at the drag strip. When going to a Whipple supercharger it will eventually fail if you are launching hard. For road racing and daily driving it will suffice. One advantage to going with a one-piece driveshaft is that it will shed some weight off the car.

 

Differential: It should handle to increase in torque. I swapped out the differential cover and caps as a precaution for having close to 700rwhp. I don't want the differential to explode under road racing conditions.

 

Lower and Upper Control Arms/Panhard Bar: This is must mod even for the stock HP. The rear end stock components move the differential and axle all over the place. I tore out the 3-link Ford design completely and went with a Griggs Racing torque-arm design. Expensive mod, but it really works well.

 

Fuel System: Stock system should handle the Whipple. Perhaps new injectors are needed, but IMO, nothing more.

 

Intake: Stock intake will defeat the purpose of the Whipple. A new cold air intake is a must. Consider a new throttle body too. I used the Whipple monoblade but I'm not very satisified with it and don't recommend it. I'm purchasing a Ford Racing throttlebody next week. Less HP but better throttle control.

 

Engine: This is a well designed power plant and can safely take plenty of HP. 700 is still a safe HP range but obiously will shorten the life of the engine from the stock set up. I have heard that this engine can take close to 1,000 HP; not sure if this is a reasonable limit. I have been assured from engineers that 700 is a tolerable limit. To be honest, anything over 600 is enough to kill and get your heart racing so why go more.

 

Wheels: Decent but they are heavy.

 

Tires: You will have no traction at 700 rwhp. Depending on what you are using the car for you will either put drag radials or road racing tires; both having a softer compound.

 

So, lots to think about before buying the Whipple which should be the last mod. You have to get the "system" ready for the increase in power first. Just figure out HOW you want to use the car and then make decision based on the use.

[yraegel]

Stock Clutch: Weak link even in the 2010 model. The clutch is really engineered and designed for 500 lbs of torque....

 

Don't the improvements to the 2010 clutch make it more robust - able to deal with 540? Im not sure about the material, but wouldn't the increase in diameter allow more HP?

[idrathergolf]

Don't the improvements to the 2010 clutch make it more robust - able to deal with 540? Im not sure about the material, but wouldn't the increase in diameter allow more HP?

Yes. Add on another 200 lbs. of torque and the stock clutch may have a hard time handling it IMO. Someone should probably call an engineer at Ford to find out how much torque the clutch is designed for.

[richguess]

I really appreciate the help. Have you had any problems with the stock axel shafts? I am planning on autocrossing SOLO II mostly, but would like to try SOLO I some day. I'm just looking for enough HP/torque so as not to be too embarrased by a ZO6.

[darthracer777]

Driveshaft: Not designed for hard launches at the drag strip. When going to a Whipple supercharger it will eventually fail if you are launching hard. For road racing and daily driving it will suffice. One advantage to going with a one-piece driveshaft is that it will shed some weight off the car.

 

Differential: It should handle to increase in torque. I swapped out the differential cover and caps as a precaution for having close to 700rwhp. I don't want the differential to explode under road racing conditions.

 

 

???? The GT 500 has a two piece-driveshaft design? or maybe I read your comments wrong. Can you drag race the car with the stock 540 HP (with slicks) and have it last a while? or is the diff/driveshaft too fragile?

[idrathergolf]

???? The GT 500 has a two piece-driveshaft design? or maybe I read your comments wrong. Can you drag race the car with the stock 540 HP (with slicks) and have it last a while? or is the diff/driveshaft too fragile?

You should be able to launch the car hard using the stock driveshaft on the stock GT500 (450 rwhp). I'm not sure it will last a while as if you drive any car hard it is going to break somewhere. These cars are not undestructible you know and if driven hard it will break; that is a given. I was trying to give my opinion about having the stock 2 piece driveshaft in a 700 rwhp car being used for drag racing; not a good idea. I still have the stock driveshaft in my car but I don't drag race; I prefer road racing. Griggs Racing has assured me that even with my HP the driveshaft will take the constant torque. I just can't launch hard in 1st without risking failure in the DS.

[idrathergolf]

I really appreciate the help. Have you had any problems with the stock axel shafts? I am planning on autocrossing SOLO II mostly, but would like to try SOLO I some day. I'm just looking for enough HP/torque so as not to be too embarrased by a ZO6.

If you plan on road racing then you shouldn't be worried about getting embarrassed by a Z06 due to a lack of HP; what you should be concerned about is the handling. Getting around the course fast is not a matter of HP but geometry in the suspension. I installed the Griggs suspension in my car. Not only do I have the power to pull away from the Z06 in the straights, but I also possess the ability in my car to out handle it in the corners. The only limitation now is the driver. I still have a hard time pushing the lateral G's to the limit. My foot says go but my mind says "BACK OFF". Ask for Colin Sebern or John Griggs and they will educate you on the system. It really works. Expensive, but worth the money if you want to kick butt on the course.

[darthracer777]

You should be able to launch the car hard using the stock driveshaft on the stock GT500 (450 rwhp). I'm not sure it will last a while as if you drive any car hard it is going to break somewhere. These cars are not undestructible you know and if driven hard it will break; that is a given..

 

But, why would Ford put a two-piece driveshaft in a GT 500? I guess a guy could get a good aftermarket single shaft. And, what about the axles? Are they beefed up units? Is the differential that 'weak'?

 

As for drag racing....that's what I do. I do have a 'full-time' drag racing vehicle, but I was thinking of taking a '10 GT 500 to a few special events a year....maybe 5 or 6 events....no more than 50 passes a year. Would a showroom stock '10 GT 500, with slicks, be able to handle that load? For the money you're paying, I think it should be able to. However, I know that the fact that it weighs almost 4,000 lb enhances the possiblity of breakage.

[2010 Grabber Blue Shelby]

Congrats on the 2010. I ordered one too and have to wait for a production date. I got the grabber blue with white stripes. The GT500 is a muscle car and the zo6 is a sports car, so not a fair comparison. Also, the zo6 is 75K. Bye the way, how did you make out on the price as compared to window sticker?

[richguess]

Congrats on the 2010. I ordered one too and have to wait for a production date. I got the grabber blue with white stripes. The GT500 is a muscle car and the zo6 is a sports car, so not a fair comparison. Also, the zo6 is 75K. Bye the way, how did you make out on the price as compared to window sticker?

 

I realize the ZO6 is considered a different class by most people, but in SCCA autocross the GT500 and ZO6 are head to head unless I'm reading the regs wrong.

I found a dealer in Houston who is giving me $1000 under MSRP. I guess that's better then most of the dealers who are talking $4000-5000 over....

[richguess]

If you plan on road racing then you shouldn't be worried about getting embarrassed by a Z06 due to a lack of HP; what you should be concerned about is the handling. Getting around the course fast is not a matter of HP but geometry in the suspension. I installed the Griggs suspension in my car. Not only do I have the power to pull away from the Z06 in the straights, but I also possess the ability in my car to out handle it in the corners. The only limitation now is the driver. I still have a hard time pushing the lateral G's to the limit. My foot says go but my mind says "BACK OFF". Ask for Colin Sebern or John Griggs and they will educate you on the system. It really works. Expensive, but worth the money if you want to kick butt on the course.

 

Thanks, I'll give John a call. I have tried to find out exactly what parts they pulled from the KR to improve the GT500 suspension, but haven't had a lot of luck. I hear it has the Tokico shocks, but not sure if they are the adjustable Illumina ones. Did the Griggs rear suspension also replace the upper and lower control arms? What tires are you running on long/short courses? Did you upgrade your brakes with 6 piston fronts? I was looking at the Baer 6 piston fronts , but I have never used them. I had the Wilwoods on my '01 GT and they worked great.

[idrathergolf]

Thanks, I'll give John a call. I have tried to find out exactly what parts they pulled from the KR to improve the GT500 suspension, but haven't had a lot of luck. I hear it has the Tokico shocks, but not sure if they are the adjustable Illumina ones. Did the Griggs rear suspension also replace the upper and lower control arms? What tires are you running on long/short courses? Did you upgrade your brakes with 6 piston fronts? I was looking at the Baer 6 piston fronts , but I have never used them. I had the Wilwoods on my '01 GT and they worked great.

To be honest, I haven't read much on the 2010 suspension system of the GT500. I'll see what has changed from the 07 - 09 models and let you know if I find out. Perhaps somebody on TS knows and can chime in here.

 

Regarding the Griggs system for the rear, the UCA's and LCA's are replaced by:

 

1 MTA 6000 - Torque Arm Kit, S197 Standard

1 MCA 6000 D-5 - Rear C/Arm Set, Aluminum, C/O,with Teflon lined sherical rod ends. Adjustable length.

1 MAB 5000 - Axle Bracket Kit, SN197 8.8"

1 KR 40 05 Street - Koni Rear Coil-Over Kit, Street Valving, w/o Springs or Lower Bracket Reinforcement (RCO 5000)

2 SRCO 10-250 - Spring C/O 2.5"- 10"-250#

1 RCO 5000 - Shock Support Bracket Kit SN197 8.8"

1 MAR 5000-R1 - Anti Roll Bar Kit, Rear S197

1 MPB 5000 S - Severe Duty Panhard Bar, S197

 

Note the absence of the UCA's. No longer necessary as the torque-arm now takes care of the veritical motion. The torque-arm attaches to the differential and is attached to the undercarriage of the car at 2 locations using plates. This transfers the energy to the center of the car rather to the rear with the UCA.

 

The LCA's are very strong and well engineered, as well as the adjustable panhard bar.

 

The coil-over Koni's are a great addition to the rear suspension and are tuned with the 250# springs. You can change the spring rates if you ask them and they will help you with the decision based on your plans with the car.

 

You can also upgrade this rear suspension system with a Watts link, not have the panhard bar, if you want to really pull some lateral G's. I left out the Watts link out for now in my car as I need to put the money elsewhere as I'm still trying to upgrade the weak links in the GT500 w/ close to 700 rwhp. I would install the front Griggs SLA before I go to a Watts link. Rather than drop more serious cash on the front SLA I just went with the front Koni adjustable struts/shocks to keep the front end more stable and balanced. Adjusted the front camber to 1.5 degrees.

[richguess]

To be honest, I haven't read much on the 2010 suspension system of the GT500. I'll see what has changed from the 07 - 09 models and let you know if I find out. Perhaps somebody on TS knows and can chime in here.

 

Regarding the Griggs system for the rear, the UCA's and LCA's are replaced by:

 

1 MTA 6000 - Torque Arm Kit, S197 Standard

1 MCA 6000 D-5 - Rear C/Arm Set, Aluminum, C/O,with Teflon lined sherical rod ends. Adjustable length.

1 MAB 5000 - Axle Bracket Kit, SN197 8.8"

1 KR 40 05 Street - Koni Rear Coil-Over Kit, Street Valving, w/o Springs or Lower Bracket Reinforcement (RCO 5000)

2 SRCO 10-250 - Spring C/O 2.5"- 10"-250#

1 RCO 5000 - Shock Support Bracket Kit SN197 8.8"

1 MAR 5000-R1 - Anti Roll Bar Kit, Rear S197

1 MPB 5000 S - Severe Duty Panhard Bar, S197

 

Note the absence of the UCA's. No longer necessary as the torque-arm now takes care of the veritical motion. The torque-arm attaches to the differential and is attached to the undercarriage of the car at 2 locations using plates. This transfers the energy to the center of the car rather to the rear with the UCA.

 

The LCA's are very strong and well engineered, as well as the adjustable panhard bar.

 

The coil-over Koni's are a great addition to the rear suspension and are tuned with the 250# springs. You can change the spring rates if you ask them and they will help you with the decision based on your plans with the car.

 

You can also upgrade this rear suspension system with a Watts link, not have the panhard bar, if you want to really pull some lateral G's. I left out the Watts link out for now in my car as I need to put the money elsewhere as I'm still trying to upgrade the weak links in the GT500 w/ close to 700 rwhp. I would install the front Griggs SLA before I go to a Watts link. Rather than drop more serious cash on the front SLA I just went with the front Koni adjustable struts/shocks to keep the front end more stable and balanced. Adjusted the front camber to 1.5 degrees.

 

I take it the two plates for the torque arms are welded in place? Did you use a supplied template and DIY, or did you take it to a shop? After installation how much tweaking was required before you got it dialed in? Are different spring rates supplied for the Konis, or just one set? Sorry for asking so many questions....

[jamie392]

I really appreciate the help. Have you had any problems with the stock axel shafts? I am planning on autocrossing SOLO II mostly, but would like to try SOLO I some day. I'm just looking for enough HP/torque so as not to be too embarrased by a ZO6.

 

I road race my Z06 and my 500. I have done allot of suspension mods to the 500 short-of going the full griggs route you can make the 500 handle very well on road course. The biggest problem with the 500 on road-courses is heat-soak, if you do plan on road-racing do the revan-racing radiator and heat exchangers. Do a google search or send dactyl a pm here on the site. Also the biggest and best mod you can do is take a professional driving course at spring mountain ranch or the one in Tempe Arizona can't remember the name maybe someone can chime in here on that. I wouldnt worry to much about getting embarassed by Z06s, the 500 with the right upgrades is more then a match for the Z06.

[richguess]

I road race my Z06 and my 500. I have done allot of suspension mods to the 500 short-of going the full griggs route you can make the 500 handle very well on road course. The biggest problem with the 500 on road-courses is heat-soak, if you do plan on road-racing do the revan-racing radiator and heat exchangers. Do a google search or send dactyl a pm here on the site. Also the biggest and best mod you can do is take a professional driving course at spring mountain ranch or the one in Tempe Arizona can't remember the name maybe someone can chime in here on that. I wouldnt worry to much about getting embarassed by Z06s, the 500 with the right upgrades is more then a match for the Z06.

 

Much appreciated. Thank you.