Shelbys and Ford Dealers = ???

[Fastbackman]

Lawdude. That was the best post I've read in a long time. Thank you! I am still #1 on my list (actually now number 1 on my list) as the guy who was #1 backed out and am still being told msrp is the price. With all that's going on though, one never knows. I just hope my dealer views this as you do lawdude.

[svtbird91]

Lawdude, I agree ,there has been much debate on this and other forums on this topic, about wether or not it is good business for the dealers to mark up this and other specialty cars because of the limited number produced. Thereby risking the loss of their loyal repeat customer base . Maybe in the new car market it doesnt matter to the dealers to have loyal repeat customers as it does in most businessess.

 

I think in the long term they will find out ,this could not only hurt the dealers but FMCO also.IMHO

[Five Oh B]

Hey Five 0,

I follow your logic of finances of course, but what do you do with your 10k guys, when a 15k guy comes through the door. Customer loyalty=brand loyalty.

KingCobra.

 

 

A guy did offer us $15K over. He was near the top of our list, so we accepted his deposit, but told him we would keep his price at $10K over just like the other guys, and that he could keep the extra $5K he wanted to give us.

 

 

Oversimplification:

 

Good will adds to the value of a business.

 

Ill will subtracts from the value of a business.

 

By your own figures, you will recieve no more than 5 GT500s this year. That means that 3-5 of the 15 who are willing to pay will buy at the premium price. However, for the sake of illustration, let's assume that you will get 10 units. That adds an extra $100,000 to the bottom line for the fiscal year. I doubt that is a make or break figure for the dealership.

 

Although you have made 10 people happy, I doubt anything will be added to the dealership's good will when they brag to whomever will listen that you charged them $10,000 over sticker. It could have the opposite effect.

 

In the meantime, you have 55 unhappy people, some of whom felt strong enough about it to memorialize their frustration in writing. If the bean counters at your dealership look long-term rather than short-term and determine that the ill-will is valued at less than $100,000, then you have made ten good deals. On the other hand, if the ill-will generated by the mean-mouthing the other 55 people are putting on your business is valued at greater than $100,000, then all of a sudden that short-term bubble in profit doesn't look so hot.

 

In addition to the ill-will, some of those 55 might opt to buy a new C6 rather than a Shelby. Some might wait for the Challenger or Camaro. The opportunity to sell a new GT500 to those who buy another pavement shredder will, most likely, be lost forever.

 

 

 

Lawdude, please understand that we did not set our price. We had very insistent customers come to us offering $10K over MSRP to be guaranteed cars. We gave everyone a fair shot to respond to that price and 15 of our 70 customers said $10K over was fair and they were interested. We'll get 5 cars max, so 65 customers got the bad news that we couldn't help them this year. Some were pissed about the price we were offered by their peers. I did not close the door on them and say that it was $10K over or nothing, just that pricing would settle down over time and let's try this again later - maybe 2008?

 

So, Lawdude, do I understand you correctly that we should have said no to the offers for $10K over and just sold our GT500's for MSRP? Why? We had customers insisting that we accept their offers for $10K over - they obviously felt that was a fair price or else they wouldn't have offered it to us.

[Five Oh B]

Lawdude, I agree ,there has been much debate on this and other forums on this topic, about wether or not it is good business for the dealers to mark up this and other specialty cars because of the limited number produced. Thereby risking the loss of their loyal repeat customer base . Maybe in the new car market it doesnt matter to the dealers to have loyal repeat customers as it does in most businessess.

 

I think in the long term they will find out ,this could not only hurt the dealers but FMCO also.IMHO

 

 

You guys really don't get it, do you? We did not mark up our GT500's. Customers came to us and demanded that we reserve cars for them and they offered $10K over to us to do so - we did not pick that figure, they did. They were ecstatic to be guaranteed a car.

 

Most of our business comes from repeat and referral business, so we are extremely sensitive to keeping our previous customers happy and loyal. For any of our previous customers on the list who were offended by the price that other customers set for our GT500's, we let them know that pricing will settle down eventually and that we'd be happy to let them know when that happens (likely 2008).

[lawdude]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 26 2006, 03:26 PM) 2948[/snapback]

 

So, Lawdude, do I understand you correctly that we should have said no to the offers for $10K over and just sold our GT500's for MSRP? Why? We had customers insisting that we accept their offers for $10K over - they obviously felt that was a fair price or else they wouldn't have offered it to us.

 

 

 

Nowhere in my post did I ever indicate specifically what you should do. Without more info, I can only give general advice. To quote myself:

 

"If the bean counters at your dealership look long-term rather than short-term and determine that the ill-will is valued at less than $100,000, then you have made ten good deals. On the other hand, if the ill-will generated by the mean-mouthing the other 55 people are putting on your business is valued at greater than $100,000, then all of a sudden that short-term bubble in profit doesn't look so hot."

 

In other words, if the cost of any ill-will is less than the amount of the premium, you should sell at a premium. If the cost of any ill-will is more than the amount of the premium, then you should either:

 

1) increase the premium accordingly; or

 

2) eliminate the premium altogether.

 

In any event long-term economics should dictate how you do business, not a small cross-section of customers.

 

Cheers.

 

 

lawdude

[svtbird91]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 26 2006, 03:38 PM) 2950[/snapback]

You guys really don't get it, do you? We did not mark up our GT500's. Customers came to us and demanded that we reserve cars for them and they offered $10K over to us to do so - we did not pick that figure, they did. They were ecstatic to be guaranteed a car.

 

Most of our business comes from repeat and referral business, so we are extremely sensitive to keeping our previous customers happy and loyal. For any of our previous customers on the list who were offended by the price that other customers set for our GT500's, we let them know that pricing will settle down eventually and that we'd be happy to let them know when that happens (likely 2008).

 

 

I understand what you are doing ,still don't agree with it . But there are many other dealers out there who made promises to certain customers months ago and are now telling these customers to come up with $10,000 or more if they want the car.That is tough to take especially when a person has been looking forward to getting one for so long.

Especially when Ford has been advertising at a $40,000 or below price.

If a customer puts a deposit on one back in Feb of 2005 only to get it back in Jan 06 because the dealer now thinks he can get more IMO its bad business. It is very upsetting to that customer,and won't soon be forgotten.

If that customer understood that there would be a $10,000 mark up from day one then I completly understand.He then, could have shopped elsewhere.

In the end I hope everyone who wants one will be able to get one. PEACE !

[orange whip 04]

I honestly think that no dealer should accept any deposties, waiting lists, or anything else before Ordering information, MSRP and production have been all announced on confirmed dates. Everyone should be able to get a chance on a first come, first serve bassis. This would keep dealers in place, Cuts out the greed, and keeps the overhead low and consumers all get there chance at owning a Shelby even the filthy rich or the average joe blow.

[KingCobra]

I don't have any problem with dealerships taking whatever mark-ups they can. Everything is priced for profitability at the limit of what the market will bear. As long as people are told what to expect from the start. Without any firm allotment or MSRP, I can see how a dealership would not want to accept a monitary deposit to protect the best interest of both parties (but namely themselves of course). But any dealerships that have accepted deposits, can not return to customers to increase any agreed to terms of that deposit, regardless of what offers may now come for the car. However, any dealership that has not accepted deposits previous to now, I don't understand why they would now take deposits and lock in markup when the true demand and representative market value has not truely been determined. If the point is to be argued, why accept MSRP when the market is increasing in value for the car, and it is still premature of being able to place an order for one, why cash out of a potential inflating investment, unless you're assuming it's an unstable one, or reached it's limit already???

 

 

KingCobra.

[orange whip 04]

I don't have any problem with dealerships taking whatever mark-ups they can. Everything is priced for profitability at the limit of what the market will bear. As long as people are told what to expect from the start. Without any firm allotment or MSRP, I can see how a dealership would not want to accept a monitary deposit to protect the best interest of both parties (but namely themselves of course). But any dealerships that have accepted deposits, can not return to customers to increase any agreed to terms of that deposit, regardless of what offers may now come for the car. However, any dealership that has not accepted deposits previous to now, I don't understand why they would now take deposits and lock in markup when the true demand and representative market value has not truely been determined. If the point is to be argued, why accept MSRP when the market is increasing in value for the car, and it is still premature of being able to place an order for one, why cash out of a potential inflating investment, unless you're assuming it's an unstable one, or reached it's limit already???

KingCobra.

 

 

 

But thats what were talking about here, We have some dealers that say and do one thing for consumers while other dealers dont accept anything. They should be all on the same level concerning those MSRP, Production, ordering information, and or other particulars when selling to the public. All the waiting list does is hype up the markup over MSRP. And by having the dealers accept this action unsettles consumers trust with the dealers which may effect there repeat business. Its no wonder people have a bad outlook about Dealerships and doing business with salesmen. If all this stuff was done properly, Everyone might be more encouraged to buy more domestic vehicles. Because most Ford dealers are independantly own and operated they can do what they want. There should be some ethic of code between the dealers and Ford that decrees a better way of communicating to the consumer. Its all about greed and someone else padding their pockets. So in other words we take advantage of the consumer simply because the market will bare it... But does that make it right ???

[amorris]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 25 2006, 03:05 PM) 2889[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

mrsuds,

 

I can certainly understand your frustration, but if your dealer has an offer of $30K over MSRP and you're willing to pay him just MSRP, who would 99% of all dealers sell the car to? Now, if you have a pre-existing deposit there at a lower price, then your dealer better damn well honor it and not try to re-negotiate with you now. If so, move on, find a different dealer to buy from and be patient and you'll get the price you want if you wait, wait, wait, and wait some more. You might be waiting a year or two, but eventually someone will make a GT500 available at just MSRP. That's the beauty of a free-market society. The stuff that people want the most go up in price, and the unwanted stuff is given away or discontinued.

 

Many customers feverishly want a GT500 at MSRP. Would that same customer want a new Ford Taurus at MSRP? No way - we have to sell them at a loss with big rebates to unload them. The market sets the price - below or way below MSRP for unloved products, or above MSRP for the most cherished products.

 

After I announced to our GT500 customers that we had offers for $10K over MSRP, I got some hate-mail back from customers saying a few unpleasant things to me. I reminded them that we did not set the price, but had other customers who were insisting we take that markup from them to be sure that they got a 2007. I politely explained that once pricing settles down in late 2007 or 2008 that pricing may be closer to what they have in mind - I then asked permission to contact them at that later date.

 

I certainly understand the economics of the situation. You can't really blame the dealer for accepting 10+ grand over MSRP if he has idiots willing to pay that for a car. Unfortunately, there are also the guys like me, who have waited, and waited, and waited, and now see that unless I am willing to pay 60 grand for a 40 grand car, I won't see one until maybe year two.

 

I have news for you Mr. dealer. I don't WANT the car in year two...period...and it isn't worth $60 grand anyway. So here is what I deceided to do...I'll go spend 10k LESS than the GT500 MSRP, buy a 2 year old Carrera with 15000 miles on it ,still in showroom condition. I won't have the 500HP, but I'll get a comparable or better HP to weight ratio,0-60 time, 30MPH more top end, superior handling, superior interior ammenities, and still blow the doors off your overhyped, overpriced, modern muscle car. On top of all that, it's sharper looking and a whole lot classier.

 

FORD, and my dealer, can both kiss my %&^....and my money good bye.

 

I do, however, wish the rest of you guys the best with getting your cars. Hope you aren't dissapointed too.

 

It's been fun, but I'm outta here.....

[kaylan1521]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 25 2006, 03:05 PM) 2889[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

mrsuds,

 

I can certainly understand your frustration, but if your dealer has an offer of $30K over MSRP and you're willing to pay him just MSRP, who would 99% of all dealers sell the car to? Now, if you have a pre-existing deposit there at a lower price, then your dealer better damn well honor it and not try to re-negotiate with you now. If so, move on, find a different dealer to buy from and be patient and you'll get the price you want if you wait, wait, wait, and wait some more. You might be waiting a year or two, but eventually someone will make a GT500 available at just MSRP. That's the beauty of a free-market society. The stuff that people want the most go up in price, and the unwanted stuff is given away or discontinued.

 

Many customers feverishly want a GT500 at MSRP. Would that same customer want a new Ford Taurus at MSRP? No way - we have to sell them at a loss with big rebates to unload them. The market sets the price - below or way below MSRP for unloved products, or above MSRP for the most cherished products.

 

After I announced to our GT500 customers that we had offers for $10K over MSRP, I got some hate-mail back from customers saying a few unpleasant things to me. I reminded them that we did not set the price, but had other customers who were insisting we take that markup from them to be sure that they got a 2007. I politely explained that once pricing settles down in late 2007 or 2008 that pricing may be closer to what they have in mind - I then asked permission to contact them at that later date.

 

I certainly understand the economics of the situation. You can't really blame the dealer for accepting 10+ grand over MSRP if he has idiots willing to pay that for a car. Unfortunately, there are also the guys like me, who have waited, and waited, and waited, and now see that unless I am willing to pay 60 grand for a 40 grand car, I won't see one until maybe year two.

 

I have news for you Mr. dealer. I don't WANT the car in year two...period...and it isn't worth $60 grand anyway. So here is what I deceided to do...I'll go spend 10k LESS than the GT500 MSRP, buy a 2 year old Carrera with 15000 miles on it ,still in showroom condition. I won't have the 500HP, but I'll get a comparable or better HP to weight ratio,0-60 time, 30MPH more top end, superior handling, superior interior ammenities, and still blow the doors off your overhyped, overpriced, modern muscle car. On top of all that, it's sharper looking and a whole lot classier.

 

FORD, and my dealer, can both kiss my %&^....and my money good bye.

 

I do, however, wish the rest of you guys the best with getting your cars. Hope you aren't dissapointed too.

 

It's been fun, but I'm outta here.....

 

Just becuse you decided not to get the car doesn't mean you got to leave. Hang out and chew the fat with us.

[mrsuds]

Was it something I said??

[Five Oh B]

amorris's GT500 is now available for someone else now that he's getting a Porsche.

 

the bidding for the GT500 he would have got starts here (just kiddin')

[DutchGT500]

B)-->

amorris's GT500 is now available for someone else now that he's getting a Porsche.

 

the bidding for the GT500 he would have got starts here (just kiddin')

 

 

Ok, I will take it. $1 over MSRP. Wooohooo I am at 100 posts.

[kaylan1521]

Was it something I said??

 

 

Nope, not at all dude, amorris' quote was all messed up with yours.

[kepfordj]

Well I finially talk with my local Ford dealer today, I got an ivite from Ford in the mail to come on in and test drive a new Ford to get $50.00 worth of free gas. It gave a good reason to stop by and test drive a new mustang, I hadn't driven one yet. Nice car, I'm making the right choice here. Any way He told me if I want a new GT500 he can get me one, I'm not ready to buy till next spring anyway so he said it should be no problem by then.

[Joe G]

Any way He told me if I want a new GT500 he can get me one, I'm not ready to buy till next spring anyway so he said it should be no problem by then.

 

 

Wow, quite a find. Care to share what dealership?? I promise I won't tell anyone!

[amorris]

Nope, not at all dude, amorris' quote was all messed up with yours.

 

 

Nope...not at all. Just frustration with the whole mess. I'm not a very patient person I guess. :P

 

Not waiting another year to get one.....

Not spending 55 or 60 k to get one this year .....

Always wanted a Carrera anyway.....

 

 

I still visit here now and then though..... :-)

 

 

 

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 27 2006, 09:12 PM) 2982[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

amorris's GT500 is now available for someone else now that he's getting a Porsche.

 

the bidding for the GT500 he would have got starts here (just kiddin')

Ok, I will take it. $1 over MSRP. Wooohooo I am at 100 posts.

 

 

Nope....dealer says he "estimates" he will look for 10 to 15k over MSRP based on "recent events".

(He's only selling one of the two he says he is allotted)

[mrsuds]

Nope...not at all. Just frustration with the whole mess. I'm not a very patient person I guess. :P

 

Not waiting another year to get one.....

Not spending 55 or 60 k to get one this year .....

Always wanted a Carrera anyway.....

I still visit here now and then though..... :-)

Nope....dealer says he "estimates" he will look for 10 to 15k over MSRP based on "recent events".

(He's only selling one of the two he says he is allotted)

 

 

 

Good, I thought my dealer horror story was at fault. All I can say is get what you want because you will still have to look at it everytime you open the garage door. There are lots of cars that I would love to own but my pocket just won't let me.

[JEFF ENGLE]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I have some concerns about the unfolding story with production Shelbys and Ford dealers.

I live Saline Michigan and we have a number of Ford dealers here in and around the metro Detroit area. Ive talked with 3 major Ford dealers so far that are big players in this area and have aquired all the certifications which will allow them to sell me a new Shelby. Here is the story i get from all three of them. "WE DO NOT HAVE A WAITING LIST" And "WE ARE NOT TAKING DEPOSITES" "WE HAVE NO INFORMATION " WE DONT HAVE ANY ALLOCATION NUMBERS" And yet all i hear is from alot of other people from other states say, "I put money down", "Iam 3rd on the list"... This is so frusterating to hear. How can this be that some dealers know and others dont? I got the same replys when i stopped at the NAIAS this weekend and asked the Ford people at the help desk sitting right across of the Shelby display. "WE HAVE NO INFORMATION" "WE HAVE NO BROCHURES" "WE DONT ANYTHING"..... Where is the communication at? Its like a big secret.... We have a cool product but We cant sell it to you. At least thats how i feel about this whole thing.

 

 

As far as other people putting money down, they may have left a deposit but that's it. Dealing with the demand for the Cobra by Shelby, the price will flucatate. They may say they are guaranteed sticker, or the 3rd car but they indeed are guaranteed nothing. All the dealer did was put their money to sleep and take them out of the market. They think they are getting a car! I am a Metro Detroit Ford Dealer. When the Thunderbird was re-introduced many of my competitors sold them for well over MSRP and Ford produced 25,000 of them. The Shelby is projected around 7500 units. What do you really think they will sell for? The list of purchasers at MSRP is very long, but the demand will drive the price and it is an ernomous demand!

I was one of the few who sold the T-Bird at sticker. The Cobra is a whole new program. That is why "WE ARE NOT TAKING DEPOSITS" is said. The Dealers are waiting to see just how much over sticker they can get. I'm in the heart of A-plan sales and I've even heard, "Yea, I'll buy it at A-plan". Do you really think they would even get a chance. Back to the 7500 units, how many Dealers will keep one for themselves?

There's 4800 Ford Dealers in the US. Do the math. Does the price keep going up because the supply is going down? Good luck getting a car and no I am not accepting deposits at this time either. I expect to get 4-6 cars and my owner will not take one.

[KingCobra]

As far as other people putting money down, they may have left a deposit but that's it. Dealing with the demand for the Cobra by Shelby, the price will flucatate. They may say they are guaranteed sticker, or the 3rd car but they indeed are guaranteed nothing. All the dealer did was put their money to sleep and take them out of the market. They think they are getting a car! I am a Metro Detroit Ford Dealer. When the Thunderbird was re-introduced many of my competitors sold them for well over MSRP and Ford produced 25,000 of them. The Shelby is projected around 7500 units. What do you really think they will sell for? The list of purchasers at MSRP is very long, but the demand will drive the price and it is an ernomous demand!

I was one of the few who sold the T-Bird at sticker. The Cobra is a whole new program. That is why "WE ARE NOT TAKING DEPOSITS" is said. The Dealers are waiting to see just how much over sticker they can get. I'm in the heart of A-plan sales and I've even heard, "Yea, I'll buy it at A-plan". Do you really think they would even get a chance. Back to the 7500 units, how many Dealers will keep one for themselves?

There's 4800 Ford Dealers in the US. Do the math. Does the price keep going up because the supply is going down? Good luck getting a car and no I am not accepting deposits at this time either. I expect to get 4-6 cars and my owner will not take one.

 

 

 

Although, I appreciate your point of view (not the negative undertone). I have a contractual agreement with my dealer for stating that I am #2 on the list for a 2007 Shelby GT500 coupe at MSRP. Regardless of whether or not they decide later to markup over MSRP, my deal is in writing and is legally binding. Anyone wihtout a deal in writing stands on different ground, but there are some of us that have firm deals. Regardless of demand for the car, it still has a ceiling of value. +5-15k maybe, but I can't see more than that. Welcome to the site, but I hope you will be able to offer some positivity to cool our anxieties.

 

 

KingCobra.

[Five Oh B]

Like Jeff Engle, I work for a Ford SVT dealership (Seattle area). We started a GT500 list in March 2005 when the concept car was unveiled. We flat refused to accept deposits, though, until we could get more finalized details from Ford (MSRP, allocation, production, options, etc) so that we could take deposits in a more educated manner.

 

As I've posted elsewhere, we were forced to finally take deposits by customers who were so incredibly insistent that we take their money so that they could sleep at night knowing that they would get a GT500. And they didn't screw around - several offered us $10K over MSRP to be certain that we would take them seriously. One offered $15K over MSRP, but said tell him who the highest bidder was and he'd bid more. So, we asked all 70 customers on our list what they thought of the $10K offers their peers had offered, and many said "no, contact me later when they're MSRP or less", but 15 of them said $10K is fine so long as it guarantees them a car. So, we took deposits with the clear understanding that the price is $10K over. The 3 guys we took deposits from are the happiest guys on Earth. To them, it isn't about the money. It is about getting what they view as the ultimate Mustang ever built, and knowing that they are getting one for sure. Most of them have classic Mustangs at home that they've restored and show that have cost them a fortune over the cars' original prices. These customers are different than many of us - they are certainly different than me. I'm super price sensitive as I'm a working guy paying the mortgage, raising two kids, etc. I drive my Mustang to work every day, even though I feel guilty for racking up the miles on a limited edition car. I want a GT500 as bad as many of you, but I could not afford to pay any ADM's over MSRP, so I will wait until those who want them worse than me (read: have more money to burn) get theirs and the prices start to come down in the long run.

 

So while many of you want to pay MSRP (don't we all?), there are enough guys out there with more money to spend who are driving up the price. Should the dealer turn down that extra money being offered? The Shelby name resonates big with many people who have a passion for cars. I want a '68 GT500 really bad. Original MSRP was around $7K-$8K roughly. I can only afford to spend about $40K and I'd like a nicely restored one, but guess what? I go to auction and they're fetching $100K, $200K, or more. Those damn bidders at every auction (Russo & Steele, Barrett-Jackson, ebay, autotrader.com, etc) keep pricing me out of the market. Should I be mad at the guys who are selling the cars, or mad at the guys who have more money than me who are outbidding me?

[lawdude]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 31 2006, 09:50 PM) 3163[/snapback]

Like Jeff Engle, I work for a Ford SVT dealership (Seattle area). . . .

 

As I've posted elsewhere, we were forced to finally take deposits . . .

 

So while many of you want to pay MSRP . . .

 

To paraphrase Shakespeare, "the car salesman doth protest too much, methinks."

[Five Oh B]

To paraphrase Shakespeare, "the car salesman doth protest too much, methinks."

 

 

I'm not a car salesman, but if I were would you be insulting me or complementing with your old English jibberish?

[stentgraft95]

B)-->

QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 31 2006, 09:50 PM) 3163[/snapback]

Like Jeff Engle, I work for a Ford SVT dealership (Seattle area). We started a GT500 list in March 2005 when the concept car was unveiled. We flat refused to accept deposits, though, until we could get more finalized details from Ford (MSRP, allocation, production, options, etc) so that we could take deposits in a more educated manner.

 

As I've posted elsewhere, we were forced to finally take deposits by customers who were so incredibly insistent that we take their money so that they could sleep at night knowing that they would get a GT500. And they didn't screw around - several offered us $10K over MSRP to be certain that we would take them seriously. One offered $15K over MSRP, but said tell him who the highest bidder was and he'd bid more. So, we asked all 70 customers on our list what they thought of the $10K offers their peers had offered, and many said "no, contact me later when they're MSRP or less", but 15 of them said $10K is fine so long as it guarantees them a car. So, we took deposits with the clear understanding that the price is $10K over. The 3 guys we took deposits from are the happiest guys on Earth. To them, it isn't about the money. It is about getting what they view as the ultimate Mustang ever built, and knowing that they are getting one for sure. Most of them have classic Mustangs at home that they've restored and show that have cost them a fortune over the cars' original prices. These customers are different than many of us - they are certainly different than me. I'm super price sensitive as I'm a working guy paying the mortgage, raising two kids, etc. I drive my Mustang to work every day, even though I feel guilty for racking up the miles on a limited edition car. I want a GT500 as bad as many of you, but I could not afford to pay any ADM's over MSRP, so I will wait until those who want them worse than me (read: have more money to burn) get theirs and the prices start to come down in the long run.

 

So while many of you want to pay MSRP (don't we all?), there are enough guys out there with more money to spend who are driving up the price. Should the dealer turn down that extra money being offered? The Shelby name resonates big with many people who have a passion for cars. I want a '68 GT500 really bad. Original MSRP was around $7K-$8K roughly. I can only afford to spend about $40K and I'd like a nicely restored one, but guess what? I go to auction and they're fetching $100K, $200K, or more. Those damn bidders at every auction (Russo & Steele, Barrett-Jackson, ebay, autotrader.com, etc) keep pricing me out of the market. Should I be mad at the guys who are selling the cars, or mad at the guys who have more money than me who are outbidding me?

 

 

 

I don't know if there are dealers, salesmen, or what that are posting here as well, and I don't intend to offend anybody; but people talking 10k-15k or more over MSRP, I'm not sure what areas of the country you're from but when I talked to my dealer 2 weeks ago they told me they don't sell over MSRP. They are in a small market area and are a full SVT dealer and in my conversation they spoke of another SVT dealer poorly that is a competitor of theirs and said "I'll bet they'll try to get 5k over MSRP if they can" based on what I was telling them I had seen posted here. they made it sound like that would be a huge amount over MSRP and then assured me yet again that they don't play that game of trying to garner more than MSRP for specialty vehicles. They even used the example of the Ford GT's they sold. They did speak of a buyer who really wanted a Ford GT and they got one on a prearranged deal on a car that they had to get from another dealer over MSRP but the buyer new this and gladly paid the price. For their allocation, they did not participate in the gouging game.

 

Like others, I say wait and let them people sell to the fools willing to pay over MSRP as they will be sold very soon at MSRP. There are not that many idiots out there to take them all. I too am hoping this car becomes a collector of such (probalby never like the original GT 500's) but will have to wait a hell of a lot longer for my return if i had to pay that much over MSRP to gain value.

 

Stent

[Five Oh B]

Stent,

 

I have no idea where you're located, but I'm in the Seattle metro area. High cost of living, Microsoft money, real estate market skyrocketing, too many people drinking espresso, California transplants, etc. The market will set the price for GT500's, not dealers. If a dealer tries to gouge too much for a GT500, that car will sit unsold and collect dust until the price drops low enough to be sold, so when demand for the GT500 settles down and production catches up with demand the price will come down. We are in obviously in a very envious position of being right smack dab in the middle of a community that is begging dealers for the promise of a GT500 right now. All the dealers I've spoken to in our area took deposits from customers months and months ago - most in the $10K over MSRP range. There is a dealer down the street from us that isn't well liked that is holding their GT500 orders for ransom at $25K over MSRP. I doubt they'll get that kind of money, but $10K over MSRP seems to be the most common answer I'm hearing around our neck of the woods.

 

Don't want to pay over MSRP for a GT500? No problem - wait until the gotta-have-it-now guys have gotten theirs and you'll likely get your wish at the end of the model year or sometime shortly thereafter in 2008.

[Joe G]

I'm still amazed at how worked up some people get on these price discussions. Unlike others on this board, I don't work at a dealership or even in the auto industry, but pricing and inventory are issues in everything we buy - from staples like bread and milk to hot electronics like IPod's and Xboxes.

We all need to note:

- Ford is not the ones that are setting the sell price. They set the cost that the dealers actually pay for the car. They don't make any extra $ when a car is sold for MSRP+ and don't loose extra $ if a dealer only makes $1.00 over cost, or $1,000 under cost (unless you look at the additional rebates they throw at autos they're trying to help move off of lots)

- Dealerships are a business. Many times a family business. All have professional salespeople who want to bring home a paycheck just like you and me.

- Dealerships and salespeople want to maximize their profits on every sale. This is hard to do when they sell a F150 that a dozen dealers within 10 miles of them also have. This is easier to do when there is a "limited qty" auto like the GT500.

- Think of it this way. For those of us who are home owners - how did you price your house when it sold? Given a hot market (like what happened in the last 5 years) - did you accept far below market value just to make the buyer happy, or did you try to get every cent out of the sale and sell it in the time frame that fit your needs? You can price any item 3 ways - over price it and hope that you'll sell it eventually (good if you have more time than need to sell), under price it and move the product quickly (good if you need a quick sale and don't need to maximize your profit) and "market" price it (good for getting the most profit without taking a long time).

Unfortunately for most of us, "market" price is over MSRP in many, if not most, parts of the country. Don't be mad. Don't blame the dealers. Either pay it or wait for the "market" price to meet your needs.

[lawdude]

- Think of it this way. For those of us who are home owners - how did you price your house when it sold?

 

No disrespect intended, but those of us who are home owners who sell our houses are not in the business of home sales and don't have to worry what our actions will have on future business. Perhaps a different analogy would be better.

 

I'm not an economist, but have taken economic courses. Econometric models can be as simple or as complicated as you want, but they are all more complicated than "buy low, sell high." There's an old economist joke that's not really funny, but illustrates the complexity of economics : If you line up all the economists in the world and ask them which way the economy was headed, they would all point in a different direction

[cobra8u]

I have been getting most of my info on the GT 500 from this board for several months and have decided to register and reply. I have owned four mustangs and five ford trucks. I currently still own the 96 cobra and 02 FX4 F150, both of which I bought new.

I wanted an 05 mustang, but decided to wait for the Shelby for the same reasons as everyone else here. I also have the same story about my dealer at first saying they will sell for msrp and now are saying that the first ones "will be a little over msrp". At first I thought I would not pay a dime over msrp, but now have decided that I may, although I have not decided how much yet. If my dealer makes me pay over, then when I take delivery of the car and they try to show me their service dept. ect, I will explain that I am not interested because they will never see me agian. If they decide to take the short term profit, then they better enjoy it because that is last money they will get from me and I will try to dicourage friends and family from giving them any of their money also.

I had the same situation 10 years ago with Harley. I had bought bikes from both of the local dealers when times were hard for them. In 97 when times were good, I wanted a new bike but both dealers put me on list that never moved becaused they sold to people who would pay over msrp. I finaly got my new bike from a dealer 50 miles away and now enjoy the 50 mile ride several times a year to buy parts and service. The Harley market now is not as good for the dealers and I bet the local guys could use the income that they will never get from me.

[01ROUSH3GT]

One dealer down, ____ more to go (in SC). I was on the "list." This particular dealership said they had 3 allotments; 1. "the guy who bought the Ford GT" 2. "General Mgr." 3. "Whoever's in first and agreees on a price with us when pricing and order info is released -- we'll call you when that happens."

 

I offered to put money down, and was told that is wasn't needed until they know more. I was told by the sales mgr that the gen mgr new I was serious and could afford the car when I offered a down payment and when he saw that I drive a ROUSH 3.

 

So, with this board operating that Ordering and Pricing info will be released in Feb-Mar, I followed up w/ my dealer's sales mgr yesteray. I was handed off to the general manager who told me that all 3 were sold, but they think they'll get another one. I explained all that was said to me before - I was cut off and told, "he said she said is not helpful. Give me a check for $10k over MSRP it's yours. If I cannot get you one, I'll return the check."

 

(heavy sigh)

 

Hopefully, when I return from Iraq in the fall of 07 the madness will die down and I'll be able to pay $40-42k for a $40-42k car vs. $50-52k. Or, Lord willing, X-PLAN!

 

The adventure continues...