Shelbys and Ford Dealers = ???

[orange whip 04]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I have some concerns about the unfolding story with production Shelbys and Ford dealers.

I live Saline Michigan and we have a number of Ford dealers here in and around the metro Detroit area. Ive talked with 3 major Ford dealers so far that are big players in this area and have aquired all the certifications which will allow them to sell me a new Shelby. Here is the story i get from all three of them. "WE DO NOT HAVE A WAITING LIST" And "WE ARE NOT TAKING DEPOSITES" "WE HAVE NO INFORMATION " WE DONT HAVE ANY ALLOCATION NUMBERS" And yet all i hear is from alot of other people from other states say, "I put money down", "Iam 3rd on the list"... This is so frusterating to hear. How can this be that some dealers know and others dont? I got the same replys when i stopped at the NAIAS this weekend and asked the Ford people at the help desk sitting right across of the Shelby display. "WE HAVE NO INFORMATION" "WE HAVE NO BROCHURES" "WE DONT ANYTHING"..... Where is the communication at? Its like a big secret.... We have a cool product but We cant sell it to you. At least thats how i feel about this whole thing.

[Fastbackman]

Some dealers seem to just prefer not doing a list until they have confirmed allocation numbers. Some of the dealers have taken more deposits than they can possibly fill and will end up having to return deposits. I have a deposit and a number 2 spot in line, but they dealer cut the list off at 3 people, just in case they didn't get any more cars than that. My dealer doesn't have any information that others don't, they just took enough deposits that they felt confident about being able to fill the orders when the ordering information comes out.

[NVWSSV]

Welcome and we all feel your pain. Just hang in there with us while we drool on your keyboards every time some new pics surface.

 

Getting down to your questions. Some dealers are doing the same thing as the ones you've talked to, others just have a list (Five Oh B on this forum is a dealer and has 70+ on his list), and other dealers have a list and are taking deposits to hold a place in line. No dealer has taken a deposit on a car yet. Deposits are useless right now in my opinion. Sure it may help the dealers weed out the serious buyer from the looky loo (sp?), but not one single person has actually been able to put a deposit down on a car, just a place in line.

 

In my particular case, I am #3 (called last March) on a list at a local dealership with no deposit. And just so you know, unless you must have one of the very first cars built, most of us discussing estimated production numbers and what’s going to happen with the first wave of buyers, are going to be forced to wait 6-12 months after the first build so we can purchase at or close to MSRP, not 10k-15k-20k above MSRP, even though we are high on a dealers list.

 

Take this info for what it’s worth, good luck on the GT500 hunt.

[DutchGT500]

I will wait patiently. My dealer here has several dealerships in the US and Canada he gets his cars from. So I spread my changes. I just need one, please.

[Joe G]

Welcome and we all feel your pain. Just hang in there with us while we drool on your keyboards every time some new pics surface.

 

Getting down to your questions. Some dealers are doing the same thing as the ones you've talked to, others just have a list (Five Oh B on this forum is a dealer and has 70+ on his list), and other dealers have a list and are taking deposits to hold a place in line. No dealer has taken a deposit on a car yet. Deposits are useless right now in my opinion. Sure it may help the dealers weed out the serious buyer from the looky loo (sp?), but not one single person has actually been able to put a deposit down on a car, just a place in line.

 

In my particular case, I am #3 (called last March) on a list at a local dealership with no deposit. And just so you know, unless you must have one of the very first cars built, most of us discussing estimated production numbers and what’s going to happen with the first wave of buyers, are going to be forced to wait 6-12 months after the first build so we can purchase at or close to MSRP, not 10k-15k-20k above MSRP, even though we are high on a dealers list.

 

Take this info for what it’s worth, good luck on the GT500 hunt.

 

 

I agree with you're opinion on deposits. All you're doing is giving the dealer a interest free loan! What a scam. :angry: They have no extra outlay for this "list". They're not required to give Ford a deposit - there are no orders allowed yet!!

Dealers who are taking $1000-$5000 "deposits" to be on a "list"... sounds like the best way to make a profit I've ever heard of. Plus - this deposit doesn't even guarantee you a car (did you sign a contract with the deposit??), or that they'll sell it at a certain price (MSRP, or MSRP++). You can be sure that many of those who gave these interest free loans, oops, I mean "deposits", to these dealers will be upset by what happens when you come to collect the car.

Get on a list. If you want one NOW, be prepared to pay (probably more than you want!) for it. If not, wait until the the newness of the car dies down. You'll probably get the deal you're looking for by the end of the first year.

Just my opinion... :D

[KingCobra]

In regards to deposits. Joe G is right. If anyone is yet to make a depoit or is willing to top up an existing deposit, you can create your own legally binding contract like I did. The delership did not give me a written contract documenting our agreement, so I sent one with a further addition on my deposit. I more or less stated that I was making this deposit to hold my #2 position on the list for a 2007 Shelby GT500 coupe to be custom ordered at MSRP. I included the cheque number in the letter, and faxed, mailed and emailed it. I can prove, by way of record through my fax, and email that the letter was sent and recieved, and when the cheque was cashed it denoted thier acceptance of the terms of the letter.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

KingCobra.

[Joe G]

Good idea KingCobra. If you're giving them something, it's not unreasonable to expect something in return. Not that all dealers are bad, but I'm sure we've all had our share of questionable dealer moments!

[Fastbackman]

I gave a refundable deposit that states I will get the 2nd car that my dealer orders. They mailed me a receipt for $500. and stated on the receipt that the price was not to exceed msrp. Sure they could still back out, but I do have it in writing and they did cash my deposit check, so though I'm still a little nervous about it, I like my chances. That being said, I'll believe it when my order is placed and I have a more binding contract.

[kaylan1521]

When I put down my deposit in September right on the receipt from the dealer it states deposit on 07 Shelby as well as on my cheque I wrote the same and for XMas my wife threw an additional 500.00 onit and it came with a certificate from the dealership stating the same. Now, if I don't get the car I got some ammo.

[KingCobra]

Good on ya guys.

 

That's what I'm talking about.

 

They don't need to know what the final MSRP is to offer MSRP to you.

 

They might not want to offer you a contractual agreement, if they can get away with it, but refusing yours when there's a cheque attached to it is something altogether different.

 

Either way you're covered.

 

 

KingCobra.

[svtbird91]

I gave a refundable deposit that states I will get the 2nd car that my dealer orders. They mailed me a receipt for $500. and stated on the receipt that the price was not to exceed msrp. Sure they could still back out, but I do have it in writing and they did cash my deposit check, so though I'm still a little nervous about it, I like my chances. That being said, I'll believe it when my order is placed and I have a more binding contract.

 

I'm in a similar situation and I'm a bit nervous also,I won't relax until I have a signed contract.

[KingCobra]

I'm in a similar situation and I'm a bit nervous also,I won't relax until I have a signed contract.

 

 

 

So, make one yourself, like I had explained earlier in this section.

 

It's leagally binding.

 

 

KingCobra.

[Five Oh B]

Like NVWSSV mentioned above, our dealership has a list of 70+ GT500 customers. We'll only get 3-5 cars for 2007. We had been refusing to take deposits or guaranteeing position on the list. That changed Monday. After Barrett-Jackson auctioned the first GT500, we began getting calls, e-mails, and personal visits from customers demanding that we start reserving cars. We explained we hadn't set a price and did not want to start reserving cars until Ford announces allocation in March. A few guys told us they'd pay $10K over MSRP if we would accept their deposits now. We sent that news out to all 70+ guys on the list, and so far have 15 guys that are still interested at $10K over and desperate to visit with a deposit. We even had offers over $10K over MSRP. So, do we turn down $10K over MSRP that was offered to us by so many customers? Not! That many people saying that $10K over MSRP is OK tells me that the market has spoken and we started taking deposits for just the cars we know for sure we can get with the clear agreement that the price is $10K over MSRP. Personally, I couldn't pay that much and would not pay that much, but I'm just an average Joe working guy. Many of the guys on our list are very wealthy and they are not nearly as worried about pricing as they are about actually getting ahold of a GT500 for sure.

[NVWSSV]

Hey Five Oh B, what are your thoughts about the Barrett Jackson auction actually working to our benefit? What I'm thinking is that Buyers and Dealers are getting so fired up that they are both driving the price of the car to stupid prices. There has to be far more Buyers at 40k then at 50k+, so if the price gets super inflated beyond many of our means, this will turn some Buyers off and the pool of Buyers which Dealers can tap at 50k+ may dry up quicker which in turn would bring the price back to MSRP faster. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.

[Five Oh B]

Well, I can tell you that I'm the guy at our dealership talking to all of the GT500 customers. Of the 70 guys on our list, 15 were just fine at $10K over MSRP, about 40 have not responded yet (they may be out of the market or mad about the price and ignoring us), and about 15 said they'll just plain wait for pricing to settle down, even if that means waiting for a 2008 or not getting one at all.

 

Pricing will adjust as supply and demand equalize. Once all the guys who can pay $50K+ get their cars, then demand will wane and pricing will start dropping to the point where the rest of us who can only afford $40K can start getting their cars. And perhaps at some very distant point in the future (end of 2008?), there may actually be surplus GT500's sitting around unsold that go for discount prices. Again, time = money.

[mrsuds]

Okay gotta vent.

 

Five Oh B please forgive me.

 

I just got off the phone with a ****ing dealer and the first thing out of his mouth was "Did you see what the Shelby sold at during the auction"? I just about dropped my cell. Then he askes if I'm still interested and I say yes. He states that he has a solid offer of $30K over sticker. I actually felt insulted. So now its my turn. I ask about production numbers, he said he didn't know but car should start appearing in September. I asked if the markup was tax deductible as a charitable donation, he said no. I ask him of it comes with a matching toolbox, no again. What about a low vin and signed sun visor. You can guess the answer.

 

Long story short, I told him to keep the car, wished him luck in selling it. Also mentioned not to call me back unless its to inform me that I can get the car at sticker.

 

Unbelievable....

 

I feel better now but I'm still pissed off.....

[Five Oh B]

mrsuds,

 

I can certainly understand your frustration, but if your dealer has an offer of $30K over MSRP and you're willing to pay him just MSRP, who would 99% of all dealers sell the car to? Now, if you have a pre-existing deposit there at a lower price, then your dealer better damn well honor it and not try to re-negotiate with you now. If so, move on, find a different dealer to buy from and be patient and you'll get the price you want if you wait, wait, wait, and wait some more. You might be waiting a year or two, but eventually someone will make a GT500 available at just MSRP. That's the beauty of a free-market society. The stuff that people want the most go up in price, and the unwanted stuff is given away or discontinued.

 

Many customers feverishly want a GT500 at MSRP. Would that same customer want a new Ford Taurus at MSRP? No way - we have to sell them at a loss with big rebates to unload them. The market sets the price - below or way below MSRP for unloved products, or above MSRP for the most cherished products.

 

After I announced to our GT500 customers that we had offers for $10K over MSRP, I got some hate-mail back from customers saying a few unpleasant things to me. I reminded them that we did not set the price, but had other customers who were insisting we take that markup from them to be sure that they got a 2007. I politely explained that once pricing settles down in late 2007 or 2008 that pricing may be closer to what they have in mind - I then asked permission to contact them at that later date.

[mrsuds]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 25 2006, 03:05 PM) 2889[/snapback]

mrsuds,

 

I can certainly understand your frustration, but if your dealer has an offer of $30K over MSRP and you're willing to pay him just MSRP, who would 99% of all dealers sell the car to? Now, if you have a pre-existing deposit there at a lower price, then your dealer better damn well honor it and not try to re-negotiate with you now. If so, move on, find a different dealer to buy from and be patient and you'll get the price you want if you wait, wait, wait, and wait some more. You might be waiting a year or two, but eventually someone will make a GT500 available at just MSRP. That's the beauty of a free-market society. The stuff that people want the most go up in price, and the unwanted stuff is given away or discontinued.

 

Many customers feverishly want a GT500 at MSRP. Would that same customer want a new Ford Taurus at MSRP? No way - we have to sell them at a loss with big rebates to unload them. The market sets the price - below or way below MSRP for unloved products, or above MSRP for the most cherished products.

 

After I announced to our GT500 customers that we had offers for $10K over MSRP, I got some hate-mail back from customers saying a few unpleasant things to me. I reminded them that we did not set the price, but had other customers who were insisting we take that markup from them to be sure that they got a 2007. I politely explained that once pricing settles down in late 2007 or 2008 that pricing may be closer to what they have in mind - I then asked permission to contact them at that later date.

 

 

I certainly will not discourage a dealer from exploiting his advantage, in terms of this car. People are out there that are willing to pay an absurd amount of money for the car, be my guest. I guess my biggest problem is that I am worried that a dealer would see what the car sold at auction and immediately adjust his markup. In this case, I feel that I was correct.

 

Let the market determine what the markup will, but please don't use a televised auction with a bunch of rich boys with bottomless pockets to justify it.

 

Once again, this is not directed at you Five..

[lawdude]

I've had an Infiniti G35 Coupe for three years. In all honesty, it has all the performance I need for the type of driving I do. However, I've never let common sense dictate what kind of car I get. I'm just tired of the Infiniti and it's time for another vehicle. Was thinking of a BMW M3. Then I thought that for the money I might as well get a C6. Then I read about the Shelby Mustang. Sounded like great performance for the buck. Plus I have a 10 year old and the Shelby has a back seat.

 

I will be buying a new car this year. First preference is a Shelby. If I can get it at MSRP, I'll be driving a GT500. If dealer markup puts it in the price range of a C6, then it's a no brainer - I'll be driving a car with a bow-tie.

[DutchGT500]

What can I say about this. The madness begins or has already began. mrsuds, you have all the right to be pissed. :angry: :angry:

[svtbird91]

What can I say about this. The madness begins or has already began. mrsuds, you have all the right to be pissed. :angry: :angry:

 

 

Yeah mrsuds I feel the same , angry, and disgusted not to mention disapointed ! The real tragedy is instead of the real Mustang enthuiasts like yourself getting this car it will be someone who probably won't appreciate this car and just want it as a kind of rich mans trophy. There's no justice!!!!!!!!! :angry: :angry:

 

Hang in there though in time you will get one just persevere,don't give up.

[crispy23c]

Mr. S, you of all people know I can sympathize with you...I think we will be in the same damn boat again. I'm truly sorry to hear that news...and I still believe that we ALL will get ours if we are patient....It just sucks that we have waited- by far- much longer than most others who will just "fork the pork" to the very dealers who promised us MSRP over a year ago. How quickly they have forgotten, in many cases. They shouldn't make promises they could not keep, it breeds hard feelings.

It's folks like us who are the die-hards. We wait the longest, shout the loudest, and....seem to get the driveshaft when it finally comes true. Be patient, my friends. I am sure that patience, in this case, will be a virtue. I just have to open another 12 oz. bottle of patience right now... :blink:

[Five Oh B]

I beg to differ. The guys that we've reserved cars for may be rich, or well off, or just plain ol' blue collar guys with a little extra earnings saved up. But none of them are collectors who see them purely as trophies. They are all first class cars guys, first and foremost. One guy - the first guy we opted for - has a '68 Mustang GT, a matching '05 Mustang GT, a '70 Mach 1, and an '03 Mach 1. He drives them, shows them, and is passionate about them.

[mrsuds]

I just have to open another 12 oz. bottle of patience right now... :blink:

 

 

This ones on me. Thanks

 

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 25 2006, 09:45 PM) 2897[/snapback]

I beg to differ. The guys that we've reserved cars for may be rich, or well off, or just plain ol' blue collar guys with a little extra earnings saved up. But none of them are collectors who see them purely as trophies. They are all first class cars guys, first and foremost. One guy - the first guy we opted for - has a '68 Mustang GT, a matching '05 Mustang GT, a '70 Mach 1, and an '03 Mach 1. He drives them, shows them, and is passionate about them.

 

 

 

I can agree with that.

 

But for every 2 rich car guys, there's the one that wants a trophy. I guess that its true, beggers can't be choosers.

[NVWSSV]

I think we need to open a new Dr. Phil sub-forum so we can all give each other a pat on the back and a "keep that chin up" every once in a while.

 

Just think how exciting it's gonna be when us MSRP hold-outs start posting treads like, "I'm going to pick my car up now." Meanwhile the rest of us, who are almost as excited as the tread starter, patiently hover over our computers for pics to start popping up but you are out having so much fun driving, and cleaning, and showing off to your friends, and driving, and cleaning, and showing off to your friends that you forget about those of us patiently waiting for you to come back and update us.

 

It's gonna be great!

 

P.S. Keep that chin up mrsuds, your turn will come.

[gt5001]

Five Oh B wrote:

You might be waiting a year or two, but eventually someone will make a GT500 available at just MSRP. That's the beauty of a free-market society. The stuff that people want the most go up in price, and the unwanted stuff is given away or discontinued.

 

When the Ford GT was announced, I helped a friend arrange to be first on the list at a local dealership. He put down a $2000 deposit, ordered his color/accessories, got a contract that he was first, but could only get "market price" about what he would have to pay. Car comes in last spring; dealer says $210,000. This guy would have paid $180,000, I think, but he got tired of being jerked around and walked.

 

Bottom line, the car is still at the dealership and now they are calling him to see what he'll offer for the car. He isn't returning calls. I think he's going in at the end of the month, armed with Ebay documentation of a car equipped exactly like the one he ordered, 200 miles away, at a $160,000 "buy now" price. He'll probably offer MSRP, and I'll bet he gets the car. (Rumor has it the dealer is having cash flow problems. Ford isn't exactly busting the sales charts these days!)

 

As Five Oh B says, this story will repeat on GT500.

[mrsuds]

I'll be fine. I'm just pissed off that a dealer actually tried to use the Barrett jackson Auction for his own gain.

If a dealer tries that again my only word to him/her will be "next".

[KingCobra]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 25 2006, 10:06 AM) 2879[/snapback]

Like NVWSSV mentioned above, our dealership has a list of 70+ GT500 customers. We'll only get 3-5 cars for 2007. We had been refusing to take deposits or guaranteeing position on the list. That changed Monday. After Barrett-Jackson auctioned the first GT500, we began getting calls, e-mails, and personal visits from customers demanding that we start reserving cars. We explained we hadn't set a price and did not want to start reserving cars until Ford announces allocation in March. A few guys told us they'd pay $10K over MSRP if we would accept their deposits now. We sent that news out to all 70+ guys on the list, and so far have 15 guys that are still interested at $10K over and desperate to visit with a deposit. We even had offers over $10K over MSRP. So, do we turn down $10K over MSRP that was offered to us by so many customers? Not! That many people saying that $10K over MSRP is OK tells me that the market has spoken and we started taking deposits for just the cars we know for sure we can get with the clear agreement that the price is $10K over MSRP. Personally, I couldn't pay that much and would not pay that much, but I'm just an average Joe working guy. Many of the guys on our list are very wealthy and they are not nearly as worried about pricing as they are about actually getting ahold of a GT500 for sure.

 

 

 

Hey Five 0,

I follow your logic of finances of course, but what do you do with your 10k guys, when a 15k guy comes through the door. Customer loyalty=brand loyalty.

 

 

KingCobra.

[DutchGT500]

Hey Five 0,

I follow your logic of finances of course, but what do you do with your 10k guys, when a 15k guy comes through the door. Customer loyalty=brand loyalty.

KingCobra.

 

 

Well said.

[lawdude]

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QUOTE(Five Oh B @ Jan 25 2006, 01:06 PM) 2879[/snapback]

Like NVWSSV mentioned above, our dealership has a list of 70+ GT500 customers. We'll only get 3-5 cars for 2007. We had been refusing to take deposits or guaranteeing position on the list. That changed Monday. After Barrett-Jackson auctioned the first GT500, we began getting calls, e-mails, and personal visits from customers demanding that we start reserving cars. We explained we hadn't set a price and did not want to start reserving cars until Ford announces allocation in March. A few guys told us they'd pay $10K over MSRP if we would accept their deposits now. We sent that news out to all 70+ guys on the list, and so far have 15 guys that are still interested at $10K over and desperate to visit with a deposit. We even had offers over $10K over MSRP. So, do we turn down $10K over MSRP that was offered to us by so many customers? Not! That many people saying that $10K over MSRP is OK tells me that the market has spoken and we started taking deposits for just the cars we know for sure we can get with the clear agreement that the price is $10K over MSRP. Personally, I couldn't pay that much and would not pay that much, but I'm just an average Joe working guy. Many of the guys on our list are very wealthy and they are not nearly as worried about pricing as they are about actually getting ahold of a GT500 for sure.

 

 

 

Oversimplification:

 

Good will adds to the value of a business.

 

Ill will subtracts from the value of a business.

 

By your own figures, you will recieve no more than 5 GT500s this year. That means that 3-5 of the 15 who are willing to pay will buy at the premium price. However, for the sake of illustration, let's assume that you will get 10 units. That adds an extra $100,000 to the bottom line for the fiscal year. I doubt that is a make or break figure for the dealership.

 

Although you have made 10 people happy, I doubt anything will be added to the dealership's good will when they brag to whomever will listen that you charged them $10,000 over sticker. It could have the opposite effect.

 

In the meantime, you have 55 unhappy people, some of whom felt strong enough about it to memorialize their frustration in writing. If the bean counters at your dealership look long-term rather than short-term and determine that the ill-will is valued at less than $100,000, then you have made ten good deals. On the other hand, if the ill-will generated by the mean-mouthing the other 55 people are putting on your business is valued at greater than $100,000, then all of a sudden that short-term bubble in profit doesn't look so hot.

 

In addition to the ill-will, some of those 55 might opt to buy a new C6 rather than a Shelby. Some might wait for the Challenger or Camaro. The opportunity to sell a new GT500 to those who buy another pavement shredder will, most likely, be lost forever.