Democrats want Bush to help ailing automakers

[GT500-07]

more money,

 

Automakers already want an additional $50 billion in loans from Congress to help them survive tough economic conditions and pay for health care obligations for retirees. The companies are seeking the loans as part of an economic aid plan that is now more likely to come together early next year rather than in a postelection session of Congress this month.

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081109/bush_automakers.html

[ilmor]

I suspect that Bush will let this ride until Obama takes over the job.

[brianspony]

I suspect that Bush will let this ride until Obama takes over the job.

 

 

Your probably right, why should he change now. GOP wants to blame Sarah for McCains failure when all they need to do is look at the two cronies that are there now.

[Guest markham51]

IMHO, if the potential bankruptcies are largely the result of the financial/credit meltdown it will be hard to argue that the auto insustry doesn't deserve a break just like the banks. As a matter of fact I would argue they deserve it more.

 

I am not sure about the math....but I would venture to say that it would be cheaper in the long run to subsidize the industry. Estimates are as high as 3,000,000 jobs could be lost in the first year. The government must have a veto on mergers etc so GM doesnt use the money to buy Chrysler and get both halves of the pie.

 

If any one or more of these companies go bankrupt the tax payers will be supporting millions of employees anyway and Toyota and Honda will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

It would be the worst time possible for these guys to go under with 1.2 million jobs lost already this year and picking up speed.

 

I don't know if it makes sense for them to go bankrupt first? Someone (probably employees) will take the hit if they do. And what about the dealers? Toast in a minute I bet.

 

Regardless of how poorly Detroit has managed their businesses over the past few years I would vote to keep them afloat.

[bull]

nah..who cares if they go under..they are only .6% of GDP and employ a measly 230Kish....they are nothing any more......consider small business accounts for one-third of GDP and employes roughly 67million people..kinda shows how irrelevant the big 3 are anymore.....what has killed em is "historical entitlements"......if detroit south can thrive what cant detroit north?

[twicebitten]

i wonder if it would be a good idea to bail the big 3 out . man they have been pricing the cars so high for so long and now sales are down. my question would be where is they profit they made in past years.

[Guest markham51]

nah..who cares if they go under..they are only .6% of GDP and employ a measly 230Kish....they are nothing any more......consider small business accounts for one-third of GDP and employes roughly 67million people..kinda shows how irrelevant the big 3 are anymore.....what has killed em is "historical entitlements"......if detroit south can thrive what cant detroit north?

 

 

Estimates of jobs lost go up to 2.5 million if all 3 US manufacturers went belly up because of ....direct and indirect suppliers to the industry, dealers, parts manufacturers, transport, and downstream spin off jobs. I personally can't vouch for these numbers I just see them bandied about. Now would some of them return over time as Toyota and Honda built more plants...I would expect so. I just really can't imagine the government letting this happen....it would be admitting US manufacturing is dead once and for all.

[DDT]

I would feel alot better Bailing out our Domestic Auto Makers over the Banking Industry

and Wall Street Fat Cats............................................................................

...........

[Jimbroski_00]

I would feel alot better Bailing out our Domestic Auto Makers over the Banking Industry

and Wall Street Fat Cats............................................................................

...........

 

Not to mention foreign banks in Europe and New Zealand, etc...

 

Guess what Bernake devoted his whole life to?

 

Researching and the study of the "Great Depression"...

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz...reat+depression

 

They're re-distributing wealth just like they did in the early 1900's. Only this time it's not on a national scale, but a global one.

 

It's a much bigger pot of $$$... and explains why Americans are being laid off, all the outsourcing, China's booming economy (exploitation of labor), the inner-workings between FTO, IMF, World Bank and the disparity between our trade balances as a result of globalization.

 

It's the modern-day "Robber Barrons" all over again... only this time it's to the tune $700 billion plus this time around!!!

 

That was the primary motive for Paulson trying to push the bill through House and the Senate without any restrictions.

 

The gridlock resulted because Pelosi wanted Go-to-Jail cards included in the bill, but due to the urgency of the situation Reed stepped in to

broker the compromise... stipulations were added (govt's stake as collateral) to the bill minus Pelosi's Go-to-Jail cards.

 

Bush's acquired their wealth by Grandpa Bush cornering the stock market before the "Black Tuesday" crash in 1929.

 

Tax payers got bent over back then to bail out the railroads, etc...

 

Tax payers are getting bent over to (supposedly) bailout the banks now.

 

It's is true what they say... history does have a way of repeating it'self.

 

R/ D

[stormeaston]

I say let'm die and then Toyota and can buy them and show'm how to run a business.

[Jimbroski_00]

Estimates of jobs lost go up to 2.5 million if all 3 US manufacturers went belly up because of ....direct and indirect suppliers to the industry, dealers, parts manufacturers, transport, and downstream spin off jobs. I personally can't vouch for these numbers I just see them bandied about. Now would some of them return over time as Toyota and Honda built more plants...I would expect so. I just really can't imagine the government letting this happen....it would be admitting US manufacturing is dead once and for all.

 

Dead on center... only and only if taxpayer's equity stake is factored in.

[Cali_KR]

I say let'm die and then Toyota and can buy them and show'm how to run a business.

 

Then you could trade in your SGT on a beige Prius....

[stormeaston]

Then you could trade in your SGT on a beige Prius....

 

 

 

 

 

I was thinking that pinkish green color they have.

[STILLEN]

Estimates of jobs lost go up to 2.5 million if all 3 US manufacturers went belly up because of ....direct and indirect suppliers to the industry, dealers, parts manufacturers, transport, and downstream spin off jobs. I personally can't vouch for these numbers I just see them bandied about. Now would some of them return over time as Toyota and Honda built more plants...I would expect so. I just really can't imagine the government letting this happen....it would be admitting US manufacturing is dead once and for all.

 

Last night on the news, tha 2.5 million job loss number was stated would be the outcome if only ONE of the big 3 went under. As you state, its because of all of the supplier jobs that would also be lost as a result.

[VaporDude]

Does anybody really care anymore? The government is going to do what they want to do....period. It doesn't matter what we say on here or anywhere else. Yeah we can threaten to vote them out of office but they don't care after they make their money on kick backs. The USA CAN NOT sustain itself today if a world war broke out. We have outsourced alot of our needs overseas. We import most all of our products. We have very little exports. The foreign car companies building cars in the US are laughing their butts off at us. All of their profits are shipped to their offices back at their home countries. What do they do for us? Zippo...nada...nothing.

 

Me, I would rather have the US auto companies get bailed out before the greedy CEO, CFO and any other CxO you can think of that get rewarded to be failures.

[Jimbroski_00]

Does anybody really care anymore? The government is going to do what they want to do....period. It doesn't matter what we say on here or anywhere else. Yeah we can threaten to vote them out of office but they don't care after they make their money on kick backs. The USA CAN NOT sustain itself today if a world war broke out. We have outsourced alot of our needs overseas. We import most all of our products. We have very little exports. The foreign car companies building cars in the US are laughing their butts off at us. All of their profits are shipped to their offices back at their home countries. What do they do for us? Zippo...nada...nothing.

 

Me, I would rather have the US auto companies get bailed out before the greedy CEO, CFO and any other CxO you can think of that get rewarded to be failures.

 

Robber Barrons are the Chairman and Boards of most Fortune 500 companies, including those in the Auto Industry (NAFTA).

 

They've all gone global... Toyoto and BMW plants in U.S. are nothing more than "Tokens" and offset foriegn distribution operating

costs.

[GT500KR]

i said earlier, these bail outs are getting "rediculous" I should have used the word "Criminal" Why not just erase everyones debt and start fresh with clean slates,just ,make it even more difficult to get credit,and make people earn thru hard work a few of these luxuries we sit in front of. The hell with spreading the wealth lets just eliminate it all together LOL

[Jimbroski_00]

i said earlier, these bail outs are getting "rediculous" I should have used the word "Criminal" Why not just erase everyones debt and start fresh with clean slates,just ,make it even more difficult to get credit,and make people earn thru hard work a few of these luxuries we sit in front of. The hell with spreading the wealth lets just eliminate it all together LOL

 

 

Can't do that... would make to much sense, plus it would only cost about $85 billion.

[GT500KR]

Can't do that... would make to much sense, plus it would only cost about $85 billion.

 

 

Oh yeah "sense", I forgot, we can't do that nowadays

[RUFDRAFT]

Yesterday, two nearby dealerships locked their doors - Nissan and Mazda. The Nissan store owes Nissan $16 million.

[GT500KR]

OH Hell! Bail them out too, WHY NOT..........

[RUFDRAFT]

[mywickedshelby]

I dont really beleive in bail outs.

And a pre condition to any bailout should be ZERO compensation to the board, CEO, and others in senior management responsible for running aground in the first place.

 

Save the company, save the workers,....let the bosses go sell something of their own to get a new start.

Like one of their many homes or cars...........

 

No more golden parachutes for the rich. Screw them.

You wanted a democratic President.

Good, I only hope he acts like one in this case.

[JeffIsHereToo]

Yesterday, two nearby dealerships locked their doors - Nissan and Mazda. The Nissan store owes Nissan $16 million.

 

 

Yeah, one of, if not the largest Chevy dealerships in N. IL, Rockenbach Chevrolet, is closing its doors after 80 years!

 

"Time Magazine Dealer of the Year", never heard of such a thing but it seems they are going out of business!

[svttim]

Any bailout to the autmakers would not fix the problem, only put the problem off

[Jimbroski_00]

I dont really beleive in bail outs.

And a pre condition to any bailout should be ZERO compensation to the board, CEO, and others in senior management responsible for running aground in the first place.

 

Save the company, save the workers,....let the bosses go sell something of their own to get a new start.

Like one of their many homes or cars...........

 

No more golden parachutes for the rich. Screw them.

You wanted a democratic President.

Good, I only hope he acts like one in this case.

 

+ a google

 

Those auto exec's kept building gas-guzzler SUV's despite price of gas going up because the were in bed with the oil companies.

 

Just like Lehman Brothers, AIG, and other Fortune 500 execs (Enron, MCI Worldcomm, TYCO, ect...) who stole millions from revenues cooking the books and then laid everybocdy off... they bet on the govt bailing them out so that they can get the stock back up only to rob the kitty again.

 

$13 Billion of the bailout money Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanely received is going toward paying for End-of-Year BONUSES to Execs

whose lousy Risk Management practices resulted in investors losing several billion each quarter over the last year.

 

That's $13 BILLION in Bonuses not Salary... Imagine what their salaries must be like!!!

 

How many freakin' Execs do they freakin' have?

 

Now the gas companies, banks, Robber Barrons ( Fortune 500 Execs) and the politicians in cahoots with them are gonna sweep it all up for pennies on the dollar, just like their positioning themselve's to pounce on the real estate market.

 

Why else would the banks not be lending any money despite them recieving $700 billion bailout.

 

Originally, the $700 Billion was tagged for remove bad mortage debts off the bank balance sheet.

 

Now that the bill was changed to allow a govt stake as collateral, now Paulson wants to 86 the original plan and work another angle which

entails the banks keeping the bad mortgage debts on the books and to "supposedly" start lending money to stimulate the economy.

 

Doesn't make sense to me... to offset the bad debt will only ensure more layoffs in just about all industry verticals, more foreclosures, more

failures from competition (monopolizing), less taxes paid by them due to offsets for bad debt... more assets to sweep up as a result of firesales.

 

Redistibution of Wealth at it's finest!!!

 

R/ D

[srk1959]

Yeah, one of, if not the largest Chevy dealerships in N. IL, Rockenbach Chevrolet, is closing its doors after 80 years!

 

"Time Magazine Dealer of the Year", never heard of such a thing but it seems they are going out of business!

 

Wow! Rockenbach shutting down. For probably almost 20 years going to Volo I drove past their small dealership before they built the big one. Overhead will kill you! Sad to see them go but there will be more fortunately or unfortunately depending on your view.

[STILLEN]

Let them all do a Chapter-13 - restructure the company - dump the unions (and pay a REASONABLE wage) and the big pension plans - start from ground zero and rebuild the company. Produce high quality vehicles that people will want to purchase and treat your employees fairly. Some of the airlines have been successful at going this route - why not the auto industry.