ShelbyDude Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 All he can list is what he gathers from the right wing blogs, or Hannity, or Rush, or O'Reilly. It's not worth asking since it's all just right wing wacko talking points. The only real trusted resources, CNN, NBC, CBS, LA Times, Washington Post, etc. he considers wholly unreliable. Well that certainly explains the problem here! If those are your reliable sources no wonder your intoxicated from all the Obamalaid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 The argument is at what point is it when life begins once the egg has been fertilized? There are many arguments and theories as to when that occurs. Personally, it does not matter what I believe or how I feel about the matter, unless of course I happen to be the father, then it would....other than that, it is not my choice and I have no desire to force my beliefs on anyone. In the end God will be the one that passes judgment on them and they will have to deal with that when the time comes! So to each their own! That is a valid point...and the time it takes the fertilized ova to become a human being is the subject of political debates and is stretched wide and thin depends on the political side. and i totally agree with the last segment ...it gets my nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 So because a living fetus can't survive on its own without the life support of getting its oxygen from the mother it is not considered alive nor a living being? OK, got it! LOL As far as choice...everyone has a choice to prevent themselves from getting into the situation in the first place! Excluding rape of course, which in that case I agree it should be the woman's choice and also when her health is at risk it should be her choice. But once you begin the process of life you now have two lives at stake and one is an innocent life that has no way to protect themself. Our constitution does protect their life! The argument is at what point is it when life begins once the egg has been fertilized? There are many arguments and theories as to when that occurs. Personally, it does not matter what I believe or how I feel about the matter, unless of course I happen to be the father, then it would....other than that, it is not my choice and I have no desire to force my beliefs on anyone. In the end God will be the one that passes judgement on them and they will have to deal with that when the time comes! So to each their own! Here we do agree - to a point. I believe education is a key - though the right thinks not. I think birth control should be taught - the right thinks not. I believe teaching abstinence only is simply ignorant of human nature. It's unfortunate, but we must draw a line as to when life begins - and it's not with the sperm and egg or at conception. I say it is better said that life begins at birth - at that can be when a fetus can survive on its own outside of the womb. And we do agree - no one has the right to force their beliefs on another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Well that certainly explains the problem here! If those are your reliable sources no wonder your intoxicated from all the Obamalaid! Thought you'd get a kick out of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Communist Party member Frank Marshall Davis, Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, the “Cloward-Piven Strategy”, ACORN, Wade Rathke a member of the radical Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), Soros' Open Society Institute, Service Employees International Union, Saul Alinsky's Industrial Areas Foundation, SDS member Carl Davidson, ACLU, CAIR, Earth Justice, Institute for Policy Studies (KGB spy nest), National Lawyers Guild (oldest communist front in U.S.), People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), and practically every other radical group there is, Carl Davidson and the New Party, George Soros, Aryeh Neier, Ahmed Yousef, Hatem El_Hady Terrorist Fundraiser, Louis Farrakhan, Chicago Young Communist League, Communist Party USA, Joelle Fishman, The New Party (The New Party is an unabashed Marxist “fusion” party from which Barack Obama actively sought out and received an endorsement for his state senate candidacy.), Black Panthers, Jodie Evans, Rashid Khalidi, Malik Zulu Shabazz of the New Black Panthers, Ayham al-Samurai, Saul Alinsky, Frank Marshall Davis, Obama's Communist "Poet", Gerald Kellman a disciple of the late Saul "The Red" Alinsky, a hard-boiled Chicago socialist who wrote the "Rules for Radicals" and agitated for social revolution in America, Martin Klonsky, John L. McKnight, Dr. Khalid A-Mansour, Madeline Talbott, Dr. Quentin Young, Tony Rezko, Mohammed Hasan Chandoo, Steven Farber, Markos Moulitsas, Father Michael Pfleger, Dorthy Tillman, Jim Wallis, Reverend Wright So what is the common denominator between for example...Dr. Khalid A-Mansour and Reverend Wright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 And Kingcobra is right - abortions will never go away. The question is - where will women go? To an abortion clinic - or to some back alley - or worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 So what is the common denominator between for example...Dr. Khalid A-Mansour and Reverend Wright? It's guilt by association and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 We are not talking about abortion on demand, we are talking about forced birthing of babies that have been concieved during criminal acts etc. I think the point is not about personal beliefs but whether we should elect McCain and Palin who have stated they intend to appoint "conservative" Supreme Court Justices who will outlaw abortion. Do you want the government to make that descision? Do we really need more interference in our lives by the government? A women that is raped will have NO CHOICE but to bring that rapist baby to life. I dont think rapists or their babies rights trump those of a woman who has been victimized. How many victimized women will kill themselves rather than have that happen? This is what McCain and Palin are in favor of, stripping away the rights of women. I would say those views are WAY outside the mainstream. Even rightwingers on this site seem to have a hard time stomaching that. They should. Shelby Dude: Actually, it seems many of the McCain folks here dont actually support their canidates views on this matter. Its hard to tell, seems like you dont think it would happen or you want those rights stripped away. I suppose to you its not as important as taxes and guns, but to women it is. It is McCain and Palin who want THEIR views shoved down every tax paying womans throat in the country. Scalia believe that no right exists except that which is SPECIFICALLY stated in the constitution. Here's the problem with that view. The Constitution says any rightsand power not granted specifically to the government, shall remain with the people. I believe that a womans womb is her's not McCains, not Scalias. Scalia would overturn Roe if he could. If McCain gets in, IT WILL HAPPEN and this country will go back to a bad time for women. KC666 Nope! You are merely misunderstanding. Palin has already made it perfectly clear she has NO DESIRE to force her beliefs onto anyone! What about that do you not understand??? As for Scalia, he would not overturn it other than to restore that power back to the STATES where it belongs! It is NOT a federal matter. It is a STATE matter that each State should have any say on the matter. Not the federal government! That is what Scalia is talking about! But if you have ANY concern at all about ANY free rights, the Obama is the last person you would ever want to support! Obama does NOT believe in our constitution! Obama thinks it is outdated! Obama has stated this very clearly! What aqbout THIS do you not understand??? What rights do you think you will have left if Obama was to have his way with dismantling our constitution??? WAKE UP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 It's guilt by association and nothing more. Yeah, sure it is. More MSNBC rehtoric to distort the truth in order to make their chosen one look like the messiah! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Yeah, sure it is. More MSNBC rehtoric to distort the truth in order to make their chosen one look like the messiah! LOL so what is the truth...? and what is the deal with the CHOSEN ONE been repeatedly mentioned..i must of missed something since am not following up the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 So what is the common denominator between for example...Dr. Khalid A-Mansour and Reverend Wright? Both are racist filled with a lot of hate towards America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 so what is the truth...? and what is the deal with the CHOSEN ONE been repeatedly mentioned..i must of missed something since am not following up the media? There is very little you will find out from the media. The media refuses to report anything and will only make him out to appear like the chosen one. You have to research everything to get to all truth. You won't find it through the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drswiger Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I have been a boeard certified Ob/Gyn for 20 years and delivered thousands of babies. No one questions the right of a woman to control her body, it is the fetus's she has no right to. When I perform ultrasounds in my office, I can show the mother a fetal strong heartbeat at 4 1/2 weeks. If you don't consider that a human being then you have some major moral and or cognitive issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I have been a boeard certified Ob/Gyn for 20 years and delivered thousands of babies. No one questions the right of a woman to control her body, it is the fetus's she has no right to.When I perform ultrasounds in my office, I can show the mother a fetal strong heartbeat at 4 1/2 weeks. If you don't consider that a human being then you have some major moral and or cognitive issues. Unfortunately - a fetus has no rights - one has rights by birth right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I have been a boeard certified Ob/Gyn for 20 years and delivered thousands of babies. No one questions the right of a woman to control her body, it is the fetus's she has no right to.When I perform ultrasounds in my office, I can show the mother a fetal strong heartbeat at 4 1/2 weeks. If you don't consider that a human being then you have some major moral and or cognitive issues. i echo that one .....am not OBGYN but i saw my kids ultrasound when they where still in the womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drswiger Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 spoken like a true liberal. Stick to cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra666 Posted November 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Nope! You are merely misunderstanding. Palin has already made it perfectly clear she has NO DESIRE to force her beliefs onto anyone! What about that do you not understand??? As for Scalia, he would not overturn it other than to restore that power back to the STATES where it belongs! It is NOT a federal matter. It is a STATE matter that each State should have any say on the matter. Not the federal government! That is what Scalia is talking about! But if you have ANY concern at all about ANY free rights, the Obama is the last person you would ever want to support! Obama does NOT believe in our constitution! Obama thinks it is outdated! Obama has stated this very clearly! What aqbout THIS do you not understand??? What rights do you think you will have left if Obama was to have his way with dismantling our constitution??? WAKE UP! Make NO MISTAKE about it. McCain and Palin will FORCE women to have children they dont want to bear. Even Rush Limbaugh thinks so, and hes HAPPY about it. http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2008/08/sarah-palin-on.html In a gubernatorial debate, Palin stated emphatically that her opposition to abortion was so great, so total, that even if her teenage daughter was impregnated by a rapist, she would "choose life" -- meaning apparently that she would not permit her daughter to have an abortion. Guess so much for that argument SD, Sarah Plain claims she would force her own daughter to have a baby concieved in rape....pretty sick, I feel for her daughter. If she is president, I feel for ALL of our daughters. These are some sick controling views by a person thats got too much religion and too little sense. She has no business in ANY public office. So, your wrong, again SD. Knowing this now, you still would want her to be president? KC666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra666 Posted November 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I have been a boeard certified Ob/Gyn for 20 years and delivered thousands of babies. No one questions the right of a woman to control her body, it is the fetus's she has no right to.When I perform ultrasounds in my office, I can show the mother a fetal strong heartbeat at 4 1/2 weeks. If you don't consider that a human being then you have some major moral and or cognitive issues. I hate to break it to you, but being a Doctor doesn't give you any special moral authority. Dr,. Joeseph Mengele was a doctor too. So, if your daughter was raped, by God, shes having that rapists baby? I don't believe that is right and I dont think many would agree with that. But yet people here are voting for people who will make that come to pass. Think about it long an hard. Many feel it is wrong in most instances, but I dont think many have views as extreme as McCain and Palin. Like I said, I dont think rapists or their embryo's have more rights than the victim. McCain and Plain DO think that, and plan to appoint justices who reflect those repugnant views. KC666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Gentlemen, Please refrain from using the words "stupid", "idiotic", "dumb", "retarded" or similar words when refering or pushing back on another member's opinion or POV. Please state your counterpoint of view but don't attack another's by making any of the above listed comments or similar ones. Heated banter, discussion, and debate is acceptable under the TOS just as long as it does not cross the line and start to get personal. Things like "what are you; retarded?" would be considered a direct attack on someone, and if used could/would generate a warning from a moderator. Things like "what are you; a Chevy owner?' would be considered acceptible and would probably garner applause and kudos from fellow members and moderators alike. But seriously, let's keep in civil in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 It's not killing babies - that's just rhetoric to stir the right. These are fetuses that couldn't survive on its own outside of the womb. Nor is it 'partial birth' abortion. It's late term - which I don't support either - unless the health of the woman is at stake. I thought it unforgivable when McCain used the 'air quotes' when referring to the health of the woman. As if that's what women use to get a late term abortion. Unbelievable. To think that a woman is seen as simply a vessel for birth - with no choice in the matter - even in a case of rape or incest. Simply ignorant. I'm sorry for you that you feel that way, and I hate to have to break this news to you - it IS baby killing. Liberals don't like to here that, because it sounds so terrible. You know why? It IS terrible. Personally, I'm glad my mother didn't kill me when I was just a fetus that couldn't survive outside the womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 KC, I recommend doing some research on more issues, not just rape abortions. Don't focus on this subject alone. There are many, many more. There is a much bigger picture here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 I'm sorry for you that you feel that way, and I hate to have to break this news to you - it IS baby killing. Liberals don't like to here that, because it sounds so terrible. You know why? It IS terrible. Personally, I'm glad my mother didn't kill me when I was just a fetus that couldn't survive outside the womb. You do not have the right to legislate your religious beliefs, whatever they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Make NO MISTAKE about it. McCain and Palin will FORCE women to have children they dont want to bear. Even Rush Limbaugh thinks so, and hes HAPPY about it. http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2008/08/sarah-palin-on.html In a gubernatorial debate, Palin stated emphatically that her opposition to abortion was so great, so total, that even if her teenage daughter was impregnated by a rapist, she would "choose life" -- meaning apparently that she would not permit her daughter to have an abortion. Guess so much for that argument SD, Sarah Plain claims she would force her own daughter to have a baby concieved in rape....pretty sick, I feel for her daughter. If she is president, I feel for ALL of our daughters. These are some sick controling views by a person thats got too much religion and too little sense. She has no business in ANY public office. So, your wrong, again SD. Knowing this now, you still would want her to be president? KC666 Why are you listening to Rush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Communist Party member Frank Marshall Davis, Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, the “Cloward-Piven Strategy”, ACORN, Wade Rathke a member of the radical Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), Soros' Open Society Institute, Service Employees International Union, Saul Alinsky's Industrial Areas Foundation, SDS member Carl Davidson, ACLU, CAIR, Earth Justice, Institute for Policy Studies (KGB spy nest), National Lawyers Guild (oldest communist front in U.S.), People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), and practically every other radical group there is, Carl Davidson and the New Party, George Soros, Aryeh Neier, Ahmed Yousef, Hatem El_Hady Terrorist Fundraiser, Louis Farrakhan, Chicago Young Communist League, Communist Party USA, Joelle Fishman, The New Party (The New Party is an unabashed Marxist “fusion” party from which Barack Obama actively sought out and received an endorsement for his state senate candidacy.), Black Panthers, Jodie Evans, Rashid Khalidi, Malik Zulu Shabazz of the New Black Panthers, Ayham al-Samurai, Saul Alinsky, Frank Marshall Davis, Obama's Communist "Poet", Gerald Kellman a disciple of the late Saul "The Red" Alinsky, a hard-boiled Chicago socialist who wrote the "Rules for Radicals" and agitated for social revolution in America, Martin Klonsky, John L. McKnight, Dr. Khalid A-Mansour, Madeline Talbott, Dr. Quentin Young, Tony Rezko, Mohammed Hasan Chandoo, Steven Farber, Markos Moulitsas, Father Michael Pfleger, Dorthy Tillman, Jim Wallis, Reverend Wright Hey Dude, first time I've heard you mention the Black Panthers. I assume you are referring to the Chicago group. They were around about the same time as bill (the mad bomber) ayers. A prominent member of the Panthers was Bobby Rush. He has been serving as a congressmen from Chicago for awhile. He also hasn't accomplished much. He was the 'Defense Minister' for the Panthers. Back then that meant he was responsible for acquiring guns for the group. I'll bet him and Barrack are buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra666 Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 I'm sorry for you that you feel that way, and I hate to have to break this news to you - it IS baby killing. Liberals don't like to here that, because it sounds so terrible. You know why? It IS terrible. Personally, I'm glad my mother didn't kill me when I was just a fetus that couldn't survive outside the womb. I dont agree with abortion=baby killing, but thats not the point. To have it the McCain way, some woman will be strapped to gurneys and forced to give birth. I dont like that idea. I want abortion to be safe legal and rare. Thats what most of us want. You let these extremists in the Whitehouse you will see a lot of suffering to satisfy the religous pecadillos of zealots. The real issue is whether a woman or the government controls her womb. I dont want anyone forced to give birth. Who here thinks thats a good idea? McCain and Palin want to decside, based on THEIR religious beliefs, how a woman should deal with some very personal issues involving unknown circumstances. I dont think they have that right. Its not for anyone to make that call but the people directly involved. KC666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 I hate to break it to you, but being a Doctor doesn't give you any special moral authority. Dr,. Joeseph Mengele was a doctor too. So, if your daughter was raped, by God, shes having that rapists baby? I don't believe that is right and I dont think many would agree with that. But yet people here are voting for people who will make that come to pass. Think about it long an hard. Many feel it is wrong in most instances, but I dont think many have views as extreme as McCain and Palin. Like I said, I dont think rapists or their embryo's have more rights than the victim. McCain and Plain DO think that, and plan to appoint justices who reflect those repugnant views. KC666 Comparing an ob/gyn doctor to Joseph Mengele? Is there anyone that you won't insult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra666 Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Why are you listening to Rush? I seldom listen to Rush, he's a propagandist moron. I read it on his site. KC666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 I seldom listen to Rush, he's a propagandist moron. I read it on his site. KC666 Oh, well, that's a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra666 Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Comparing an ob/gyn doctor to Joseph Mengele? Is there anyone that you won't insult? Actually, I said doctors have no special moral authority, some doctors are bad, like Mengle. Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. The doc is entitled to his opinion, I just dont agree with it. I dont think him being a doctor makes him any better at making a tough descion than the woman involved. I dont think the government should be forcing women to give birth. He seems to feel different. I doubt many of his fellow doctors agree with him. KC666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 You do not have the right to legislate your religious beliefs, whatever they may be. Pagans should also not have the right to legislate their beliefs either then, correct? This country will go down the tubes without morals. It's too bad. We are starting to see the effects of recent years of moral-less bad decisions of our leaders. As for our doctors, would you trust one without morals to work on you? You better hope that they and our leaders have some "moral authority." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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