GT500 VS GT-R

[sfadchi]

Not that I encourage racing on the highway, but I just could not help myself last night. While cruising down 595 last night, I came across a brand new black Nissan GT-R. We both slowed down to about 45mph and then took off. I pulled him like crazy. Don't know how I would have faired stock, but I know it was no challenge for my Evo Stage II car.

:happy feet:

[srk1959]

Thats good to hear after all the hype they have been getting, I am sure there will be faster ones but anyone that tells me about them you would swear no matter what car you had they would be untouchable!

[BanditSRT8]

Sounds like the GT-R needed a driver mod to me.

 

That simply should not have happened. Are you sure he knew you two were racing?

[formervettowner]

Sounds like the GT-R needed a driver mod to me.

 

That simply should not have happened. Are you sure he knew you two were racing?

 

+1

[sfadchi]

Well if he did not know we were racing, he should not have honked his horn 3 times? My car dynoed at 550HP yesterday with the stage two, with 15% drive train loss puts me about 650HP vs the GT-R's 480HP, not to mention the car weighs about 423lbs more than the GT500. Oh and did I mention it also cost over $30,000 more?

 

 

Sounds like the GT-R needed a driver mod to me.

 

That simply should not have happened. Are you sure he knew you two were racing?

[YZD263]

Sounds like the GT-R needed a driver mod to me.

 

That simply should not have happened. Are you sure he knew you two were racing?

 

 

Not so sure... The big advantage that the GT-R has over the GT500 in acceleration is from a standing start, where the AWD is a MAJOR advantage. I remember 4-5 years ago a racing series on Speed where Audis (initially S4s and subsequently RS6s) were regularily winning against cars such as 911s, Vipers and Corvettes. These races used a standing start and the Audis often gained many positions at the start because of AWD against cars with a more favorable power to weight ratio.

 

From a rolling start at 45MPH, where optimal traction is not as big an issue, it is conceivable that a GT500 with a Stage 2 could hold its own and even beat the GT-R, since both cars weigh about the same . We're not talking road course or standing start acceleration, where the GT-R would certainly have a definite advantage, but rolling start, where gearing and power to weight ratio should be the deciding factors.

[NICK82]

An Evo Stage 2 GT500 would smoke a GTR, nice one!

[BanditSRT8]

Hey, I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. I'd LOVE to think that my Stage 2 Shelby would kill a GT-R as well, but I just don't think it could if it was a serious race. Could be that the guy just doesn't know how to drive his car well yet. It is an auto, so there is bound to be a dead-spot somewhere, and he may have been in it at 45mph... who knows.

 

It's 200lbs lighter, has 38hp more (stock vs stock) according to recent dynos: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes...test/index.html and is slaying 911 Turbos like they were VW Rabbits. 0-60 is at around 3.7 seconds (we are almost a full second slower) and preliminary 1/4 mile times have shown them to be worthy of mid 11's bone stock: http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-GT-R-Timeslip-16431.html

 

Also remember that we should only be counting about 10%-12% loss with our manuals and the GT-R uses an auto so you have to factor 20% loss for their numbers. They are actually running about 538hp at the crank stock, where we push 500 stock at the crank. Your car may also be a bit of a factory freak to begin with because mine dyno'd last week at 525rwhp, so you might have a bit more of an advantage over some of us.

 

So, again I say.... I would love to think that my Stage 2 Shelby could take one and pull as hard as you say... but it just doesn't seem logical. Something was wrong on his end, you simply out-drove him. YOU were the winner I think, not your car.

[WP64]

Nice kill sfadchi.

 

Don't take this wrong, on a road course (track) the GT-R will walk 99.9% of the GT500's out there, as to the 1/10th left that have the ability to keep up with the GT-R, they are $80,000+ GT500's after extensive modding; once the mods start coming for the GT-R, the 1/10th I write of will be woefully ineffective against the GT-R.

 

Again, nice kill, savor your victory...

 

Jay

[mr4teth]

I tied to test your theory today but the GTR didn't want to play ..

[Mustang5]

I think some of you are giving to much credit to the GTR. Yes it is one of the worlds premier sports cars, but a GT500 with 650 horsepower is darn near unbeatable from a 45 mph roll. Let's face it,once we're hooked up, even stock, their are few cars that can hang with us. Bravo to your win.

[Charles Stunkard]

I tied to test your theory today but the GTR didn't want to play ..

 

Had yours out and about today huh Mark, me too this morning and early afternoon.

I have not seen a GTR yet, but would love to give one a try. Are you on for next Saturday?

I will fire up that other thread... checcking in from PA.

[sfadchi]

Straight from Edmunds.com

Shelby GT-500

Exterior

Length: 187.6 in. Width: 73.9 in.

Height: 54.5 in. Wheel Base: 107.1 in.

Ground Clearance: 5.7 in. Curb Weight: 3920 lbs.

Interior

Front Head Room: 38.6 in. Front Hip Room: 53.6 in.

Front Shoulder Room: 55.4 in. Rear Head Room: 35 in.

Rear Shoulder Room: 53.3 in. Rear Hip Room: 46.7 in.

Front Leg Room: 42.7 in. Rear Leg Room: 31 in.

Luggage Capacity: 12.3 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 4

Performance Data

Performance

Base Number of Cylinders: 8 Base Engine Size: 5.4 liters

Base Engine Type: V8 Horsepower: 500 hp

Max Horsepower: 6000 rpm Torque: 480 ft-lbs.

Max Torque: 4500 rpm Drive Type: RWD

 

Nissan GT-R

Exterior

Length: 183.3 in. Width: 74.6 in.

Height: 53.9 in. Wheel Base: 109.5 in.

Curb Weight: 3858 lbs. Gross Weight: 4343 lbs.

Interior

Front Head Room: 38.1 in. Front Hip Room: 54.7 in.

Rear Head Room: 33.5 in. Rear Hip Room: 18.6 in.

Front Leg Room: 44.6 in. Rear Leg Room: 26.4 in.

Luggage Capacity: 8.8 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 9 cu. ft.

Maximum Seating: 4

Performance Data

Performance

Acceleration (0-60 mph): 3.3 sec. Base Number of Cylinders: 6

Base Engine Size: 3.8 liters Base Engine Type: V6

Horsepower: 480 hp Max Horsepower: 6400 rpm

Torque: 430 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 3200 rpm

Drive Type: AWD

 

 

 

So the way I see it we have 20 more hp stock and weigh 423lb less. I'm just going by what both the factories claim, and by what I experienced last night. I really don't think it takes much of a driver to step on a pedal in an automatic car, but maybe you're right and he was a terrible driver. If so yay for me! All I can say is I pulled that car like a mofo and my brother was in the car with me, whom is highly interested in getting a GT-R himself he also was very impressed with the Shelby!

 

 

Hey, I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. I'd LOVE to think that my Stage 2 Shelby would kill a GT-R as well, but I just don't think it could if it was a serious race. Could be that the guy just doesn't know how to drive his car well yet. It is an auto, so there is bound to be a dead-spot somewhere, and he may have been in it at 45mph... who knows.

 

It's 200lbs lighter, has 38hp more (stock vs stock) according to recent dynos: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes...test/index.html and is slaying 911 Turbos like they were VW Rabbits. 0-60 is at around 3.7 seconds (we are almost a full second slower) and preliminary 1/4 mile times have shown them to be worthy of mid 11's bone stock: http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-GT-R-Timeslip-16431.html

 

Also remember that we should only be counting about 10%-12% loss with our manuals and the GT-R uses an auto so you have to factor 20% loss for their numbers. They are actually running about 538hp at the crank stock, where we push 500 stock at the crank. Your car may also be a bit of a factory freak to begin with because mine dyno'd last week at 525rwhp, so you might have a bit more of an advantage over some of us.

 

So, again I say.... I would love to think that my Stage 2 Shelby could take one and pull as hard as you say... but it just doesn't seem logical. Something was wrong on his end, you simply out-drove him. YOU were the winner I think, not your car.

[WP64]

I tied to test your theory today but the GTR didn't want to play ..

 

No need to :D I have a friend that races a Griggs prepped NASA American Iron SN95, he also owns a new GT-R amongst other fast toys; I base my 'theory' off of what he has told me and other reports from racers that have raced the GT-R and driven them.

 

I think some of you are giving to much credit to the GTR. Yes it is one of the worlds premier sports cars, but a GT500 with 650 horsepower is darn near unbeatable from a 45 mph roll. Let's face it,once we're hooked up, even stock, their are few cars that can hang with us. Bravo to your win.

 

Have you guys read this? Raced a Nissan GT-R

 

 

Sprint200 is a good road course driver from what I understand, I have no reason to doubt his analysis of the GT-R on the track. The GT-R Sprint200 was going up against was stock, his GT500 is purpose built for the trrack and sports Griggs torque arm/Watts link/coil over suspension and coil over struts in the front as well as a pulley, CAI and tune.

 

I have no doubt that our cars can beat the GT-R in a rolling freeway race where horsepower would be the deciding factor, but on the track (road course) horsepower alone rarely wins the race; one tight track contest against a Spec Miata and your Giant will tell you this in a hurry, try it sometime if you don't believe me, I have and it can be very humbling. As a complete package, the GT-R is impressive and with bolt-on mods it will become even more impressive, just like our cars.

[portside]

Maybe I am missing something, but how can someone be a bad driver from a 45mph roll? Who can't pin the throttle and hang on? There are few races where the driver is less of a factor, and there is no easier form of racing than flooring it on the highway at 45mph, especially with the GT-R's dual-clutch transmission.

 

Step 1: Floor it, Step 2: Hang on.

 

The GT-R is awesome from a standing start (with its launch sequence set), but at a 45mph roll, it's all about power-to-weight and gearing (if your GT500 does not spin). In this type of race, the GT-R is giving up its huge (and only) advantage, and stepping right into the GT500's advantage. Good kill, I know I could not have resisted this opportunity either. This was not a road race, and he didn't claim it was. It was a roll-on race where our cars will excel. Not at all surprising, except to the GT-R guy.

 

I am sure that modified GT-Rs will be tough, but its going to need similar power-to-weight numbers regardless of the driver from a 45mph roll.

[srk1959]

HHmmm, this tread is starting to read a little like one on another site that I visit. There they have had a Supra that no GT500 no matter how much hp or mods could ever touch. Maybe we could set up a match GT-R vs Supra......since the GT500's are not and cannot ever be competitive against either of them? Even from a roll on the street?

[WP64]

The GT-R is awesome from a standing start (with its launch sequence set), but at a 45mph roll, it's all about power-to-weight and gearing (if your GT500 does not spin). In this type of race, the GT-R is giving up its huge (and only) advantage, and stepping right into the GT500's advantage. Good kill, I know I could not have resisted this opportunity either. This was not a road race, and he didn't claim it was. It was a roll-on race where our cars will excel. Not at all surprising, except to the GT-R guy.

 

You're correct, he did not claim it to be a road race and I congratulated him on his kill twice...

 

I felt it should be pointed out that the contest in question favored the advantages of the GT500 over the GT-R and no one should assume, though no one on this post has, that in other venues, such as road course (track), a GT500 owner should expect similar success without significant suspension modifications. That's all I was commenting about.

 

Again, "as a overall package' the GT-R is very impressive, just like our cars :D

[mr4teth]

Had yours out and about today huh Mark, me too this morning and early afternoon.

I have not seen a GTR yet, but would love to give one a try. Are you on for next Saturday?

I will fire up that other thread... checcking in from PA.

 

Yep I went for a quick ride up RT8 to Starbucks before the rain hit. I actually saw two GTR's while out. One was for sale at Foreign Traffic ($97,000) and the second one down near Glenshaw. I have to admit ... and this is tough for me as you know I hate rice burners ... that's one sharp car!

 

No go Saturday! I need to get my addition on camp watertight before winter and I'm running out of weekends!

[fastfords]

I guess I always thought it was up to the person who actually lost the race to make excuses for losing. Seems like there are many here who will take care of that for them. Nice to know.

 

Sfadchi, I am sure you have learned a valuable lesson about posting on an internet board. At any rate congrats......

[sfadchi]

Like many have already stated, I was not on a road racing track. I did not ever claim I could take a GT-R on one either. I bought my car for the streets, it's a muscle car not a sports car. I know that If I lined up with one at a stop light I would be playing catch up. My car spins from first to third. I just thought it was really nice to know on the highway our cars can spank a GT-R!

[chuckstang]

Hey, I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. I'd LOVE to think that my Stage 2 Shelby would kill a GT-R as well, but I just don't think it could if it was a serious race. Could be that the guy just doesn't know how to drive his car well yet. It is an auto, so there is bound to be a dead-spot somewhere, and he may have been in it at 45mph... who knows.

 

It's 200lbs lighter, has 38hp more (stock vs stock) according to recent dynos: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes...test/index.html and is slaying 911 Turbos like they were VW Rabbits. 0-60 is at around 3.7 seconds (we are almost a full second slower) and preliminary 1/4 mile times have shown them to be worthy of mid 11's bone stock: http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-GT-R-Timeslip-16431.html

 

Also remember that we should only be counting about 10%-12% loss with our manuals and the GT-R uses an auto so you have to factor 20% loss for their numbers. They are actually running about 538hp at the crank stock, where we push 500 stock at the crank. Your car may also be a bit of a factory freak to begin with because mine dyno'd last week at 525rwhp, so you might have a bit more of an advantage over some of us.

 

So, again I say.... I would love to think that my Stage 2 Shelby could take one and pull as hard as you say... but it just doesn't seem logical. Something was wrong on his end, you simply out-drove him. YOU were the winner I think, not your car.

 

You need to put down the magazines and get off of svtperformance

 

a GTR will not, should not and would defy physics really to defeat a GT500 with 550rwhp from a roll. The GTR fares no advantages in this department, perhaps in aero, but it weighs considerably more, at least if you have coupe without the mach 1000.

 

Yes the GTR is underrated at 480hp but not by much, most stock put down about what our cars do, 440rwhp

 

I had a kill in my car back when I just had an Evo Stage 1, took down a brand new 08 911 turbo. Oh and in case you think he was not racing, we did not shut down until about 140 and boy did his car sound great but he just could not make up the difference my blown v8 made from the initial honk

 

You need to get out there and really give your car hell and I didnt read your mods first but an intake and tune alone makes these cars much much much faster

 

 

just my humble opinion

[WP64]

You need to put down the magazines and get off of svtperformance

 

This morning as I was reading through the posts in this topic I asked myself how this conversation would go off on some of the other Mustang 'enthusiast' sites, it would not be pretty IMO. The banter and immaturity on some of the other 'enthusiast' sites makes Team Shelby seem like 'Our Gang' sometimes.

 

Although I have my issues with some aspects of the Team Shelby site, I will say that the members do get along and discuss topics in an adult manner for the most part, even if we strongly disagree, we can still talk about it and at the end of the day we're still friends. I credit a lot of the comradery to the vigilance and support of our TS moderators, to which, I believe, we have some of the best.

 

Just my .02 cents, thought I'd share them.

 

Jay

[sfadchi]

+1

 

You need to put down the magazines and get off of svtperformance

 

a GTR will not, should not and would defy physics really to defeat a GT500 with 550rwhp from a roll. The GTR fares no advantages in this department, perhaps in aero, but it weighs considerably more, at least if you have coupe without the mach 1000.

 

Yes the GTR is underrated at 480hp but not by much, most stock put down about what our cars do, 440rwhp

 

I had a kill in my car back when I just had an Evo Stage 1, took down a brand new 08 911 turbo. Oh and in case you think he was not racing, we did not shut down until about 140 and boy did his car sound great but he just could not make up the difference my blown v8 made from the initial honk

 

You need to get out there and really give your car hell and I didnt read your mods first but an intake and tune alone makes these cars much much much faster

 

 

just my humble opinion

[NICK82]

This morning as I was reading through the posts in this topic I asked myself how this conversation would go off on some of the other Mustang 'enthusiast' sites, it would not be pretty IMO. The banter and immaturity on some of the other 'enthusiast' sites makes Team Shelby seem like 'Our Gang' sometimes.

 

Although I have my issues with some aspects of the Team Shelby site, I will say that the members do get along and discuss topics in an adult manner for the most part, even if we strongly disagree, we can still talk about it and at the end of the day we're still friends. I credit a lot of the comradery to the vigilance and support of our TS moderators, to which, I believe, we have some of the best.

 

Just my .02 cents, thought I'd share them.

 

Jay

 

svtperformance are like the neo-nazis of Mustangs forums, a couple years ago I would post there under username Nick85, I had death-threats within months. (Though I did taunt them quite a bit)

[FiaCobra]

Congrats on the kill.

[XLR8]

Congratulations! :happy feet:

 

So far I've only come against 3 easy marks.

 

1. Newer 350Z from a 45mph roll (No contest) A mere speck in my rear view mirror.

 

2. Pontiac G8 (from a standing start) I spun like crazy in 1st and a little in 2nd. By the time I hit 90 he was 7-8 car lengths back. His license plate read (FN SWT) I guess mine should have read (FN SWTR)

 

3. Cobra 03-04? (standing start) Gave me the best run for my money. Only had him by a car length at 80 when we shut it down.

[srk1959]

This morning as I was reading through the posts in this topic I asked myself how this conversation would go off on some of the other Mustang 'enthusiast' sites, it would not be pretty IMO. The banter and immaturity on some of the other 'enthusiast' sites makes Team Shelby seem like 'Our Gang' sometimes.

 

Although I have my issues with some aspects of the Team Shelby site, I will say that the members do get along and discuss topics in an adult manner for the most part, even if we strongly disagree, we can still talk about it and at the end of the day we're still friends. I credit a lot of the comradery to the vigilance and support of our TS moderators, to which, I believe, we have some of the best.

 

Just my .02 cents, thought I'd share them.

 

Jay

 

 

I agree Jay, there are a few other sites I check once in a while and of the major Mustang sites this one is usually the most civil when posts about GT500 vs ??? comes up. Some sites the GT500 can't be beat and on other sites even though they are Ford or Mustang sites you end up with a no win.... no matter what has been done to the GT500 thread.

 

I mostly just chuckle and maybe throw a little something in. The Supra situation got so out of hand that I was going to take a picture of me and some of the guys from work in my GT500 vert with bags over our heads to show how embarrassed" they" felt we should be owning a GT500 and post it on that site. It was totally ridiculous the exchange that went on.

 

Totally off the topic that was started but along the same lines. My son and I had the Bullitt out today and he was so happy because we never see anyone to just have a little acceleration contest with but today we had 2 and the Bullitt won both. I almost started laughing both times. #1 Acura RSX appeared somewhat modded. #2 turbocharged Neon!

 

They picked us and I was happy since we were in the Bullitt that these were the first 2 so when something a little more substantial does come along it will be easier to take!

[BanditSRT8]

LOL @ some of these responses.

 

C'mon now, our cars are incredible, and yes a Stage 2 is really a powerhouse, but we are not unbeatable. It's one thing to be proud, but another to play ostrich to other potent and capable cars. No need to be a fanboy.

 

"You need to put down the magazines and get off of svtperformance" Give me a break. And I'm assuming svtperformance is another forum? Even if I were a member, believe me... I don't just believe everything I read on the internet. You should probably adopt the same philosophy.

 

Our cars may be great, but they are not the end-all, be-all. Not saying the GT-R is either, but to simply dismiss the car altogether is ridiculous. The numbers are there, it is lighter and has more power.

 

And racing from a roll in an auto is not as easy as 'stab it and go' because every auto out there has a sweet spot and a dead spot that has to be avoided. It is highly doubtful that they have a dead spot at 45mph,but I don't know for sure. Now go pull one at a 60mph cruise and you might see a better match. Go race one from a dig and see what it's all about. While the OP's story did not involve a dig race, I have to laugh at those who think "we own GT-Rs" with only a roll-race to reference. We all know from a dig they will make us look foolish.

 

If I see a GT-R, I will of course play, but not with any expectation of seriously pulling him. I may edge him out, but that's about all I would expect. Same with a Z06. I would never try to race one thinking I was a lock for the win. Be realistic!

[06ragtopGT]

Ha Ha, nice kill to the OP!

The GTR has to be the most over hyped new car out.

Car and driver only missed the 1/4 mile times by one second from the preproduction car (May 08) to the real car on the streets. They were running 1/4m times 11.5@124mph but the real car only runs 12.6@112. oooops

I think some on here must have only read the preprodution performance numbers which are very misleading.

 

A stock GT500 should be able to hang with a GTR in a roll or street light race with those numbers. A pullied GT500 with some sticky tires should eat one.

Is amazing the handling they were able to achieve with a 2 ton car but its still a 70K car regardless.

Not a hater but was amazed with the TRUE straight line performance numbers of the GTR compared to the hype pre-production cars.

[portside]

LOL @ some of these responses.

 

C'mon now, our cars are incredible, and yes a Stage 2 is really a powerhouse, but we are not unbeatable. It's one thing to be proud, but another to play ostrich to other potent and capable cars. No need to be a fanboy.

 

"You need to put down the magazines and get off of svtperformance" Give me a break. And I'm assuming svtperformance is another forum? Even if I were a member, believe me... I don't just believe everything I read on the internet. You should probably adopt the same philosophy.

 

Our cars may be great, but they are not the end-all, be-all. Not saying the GT-R is either, but to simply dismiss the car altogether is ridiculous. The numbers are there, it is lighter and has more power.

 

And racing from a roll in an auto is not as easy as 'stab it and go' because every auto out there has a sweet spot and a dead spot that has to be avoided. It is highly doubtful that they have a dead spot at 45mph,but I don't know for sure. Now go pull one at a 60mph cruise and you might see a better match. Go race one from a dig and see what it's all about. While the OP's story did not involve a dig race, I have to laugh at those who think "we own GT-Rs" with only a roll-race to reference. We all know from a dig they will make us look foolish.

 

If I see a GT-R, I will of course play, but not with any expectation of seriously pulling him. I may edge him out, but that's about all I would expect. Same with a Z06. I would never try to race one thinking I was a lock for the win. Be realistic!

 

Why on earth would you call someone on this forum a "Fanboy"? By the way, I have never heard this name before. Am I the only one who thinks that reply was over the top?

 

No one on here said "we own GT-Rs" or "dismissed the car altogether". As has been stated, he wasn't racing from a dig. Apparently the challenge was from a 45 mph roll. You know, like 8,000,000 other races from a roll. People have been racing like this since cars were invented, precisely because it is very easy and very convenient. I am not saying it is safe, but it happens every day.

 

Racing from 45 mph with a twin-clutch transmission is about as hard as a pinewood derby. Drop it and watch it go. The only issue for us is selecting the gear to start with. If the GT-R has a "dead spot" at 45 mph (extremely unlikely), then the GT-R guy should not do roll on races from 45mph. Roll on races could not be any easier or simpler. I disagree with the tone of your post more than the content.