How far is too far?

[Matts]

O.K. so I purchased a 2005 V6 Mustang about a two years ago. I'm in the process of upgrading the engine, suspension, and drivetrain. This car is my daily driver and has been ever since I've had it. I wanting to make this car into a road course car since I race in Cleburne, Texas a lot. So my question is how far into upgrades should I go? I want a mean road course car, but I also want and nice daily driver.

[SPRSNK]

All depends on your budget. I'll easily have 70-80k in the car and parts into my road racing car when I'm done and I'm doing all the work myself. If I was smart, I would have started off with a Mustang GT instead of a Shelby GT500 and saved 20k right there, but it's what I have and it's what is paid off. I also wanted to race a Shelby. So it's my road racing car. I still haven't fully decided how far I'm going yet. At this point I'm going with a full Griggs Racing GR40 suspension and brake setup, 315/35/18 Hoosiers, Auto Power roll cage, and a 22 gallon fuel cell. I'm debating on the the usual items like ripping out the air conditioning, the carpeting, headliner and all that fun stuff. The Shaker 1000 is already gone.

 

Now...Have you looked at the Terlingua car? It's a V6. It handles beautifully on and off the track. You might want to look at the mods on that car and see what you can do to yours to build a comparable car. My Terlingua car wa 15.4k + the 18.9k for the performance package. So for 35k, we have a V6 that is better than a SGT and gets better gas mileage if you stay off the boost. With me driving, that'll never happen.

[sleepless]

First, it would be good to know you experience level with driving on a road course.

 

Then, the best rule of thumb that I believe in, is that you should modify things only when you have reached the limit of the stock component(s).

 

For example, on most cars, you first reach the stock tire's limits. Then the brakes (but you should always start out with the best quality brake fluid that you can afford; in my opinion Castrol SRF is the best, but it is expensive; but you don't have to bleed nor replace the fluid as often as the cheaper fluids); pads, rotors and calipers.

 

Power increases should be last on your list because all the other items you can change on the car will make both your and the car much better at the track. Be careful about going with forced induction on a car that was not designed for it; you will almost certainly have cooling issues which will likely limit the amount of track time (even the 03/04 Cobra and GT500s are cooling challenged; so imagine what a blown V6/GT will be like).

[svttim]

Well, might as well jump in here too. My first question would be what kind of track you are speaking of? I would start with a decent suspension package and brakes. Then get out and get a feel for the track. Later, add power. You will need a decent tire to take advantage of the handling

[sharon]

For me too far is never enough :happy feet:

[svttim]

For me too far is never enough :happy feet:

 

 

Ive seen you drive

[SPRSNK]

Ive seen you drive

 

 

Me too. That's why she needs all the safety equipment and the 22 gallon fuel cell!

 

All kidding aside, Sharon is a great driver.

[Revan Racing]

First, it would be good to know you experience level with driving on a road course.

 

Then, the best rule of thumb that I believe in, is that you should modify things only when you have reached the limit of the stock component(s).

 

For example, on most cars, you first reach the stock tire's limits. Then the brakes (but you should always start out with the best quality brake fluid that you can afford; in my opinion Castrol SRF is the best, but it is expensive; but you don't have to bleed nor replace the fluid as often as the cheaper fluids); pads, rotors and calipers.

 

Power increases should be last on your list because all the other items you can change on the car will make both your and the car much better at the track. Be careful about going with forced induction on a car that was not designed for it; you will almost certainly have cooling issues which will likely limit the amount of track time (even the 03/04 Cobra and GT500s are cooling challenged; so imagine what a blown V6/GT will be like).

 

With respect to the castrol SRF. Yes. Excellent fluid. Yes. Expensive. I switched over to Brembo LCF 600. Significantly less money, higher compressability and has a higher boiling point. You should check it out. Its what I use when I run at Sebring, Homestead etc.

 

Sebring was really wet today and I only got to dog the car a little. But she stayed cool. Looks like the new radiator is working. Tomorrow I head to Homestead to instruct and we can get some data logs. Cooling is definitely a challenge but I think we can figure it out.........there is plenty of brain power on this forum.

[sharon]

Me too. That's why she needs all the safety equipment and the 22 gallon fuel cell!

 

All kidding aside, Sharon is a great driver.

 

I am learning. I have learned to fill the tank

[robertlane]

I am learning. I have learned to fill the tank

Sharon's just not political savvy enough. Oh, those Canadians.

 

You didn't run out of gas!!!! You had a fuel system malfunction.

 

As for the Terlingua. I drove the Grabber Orange 2P for about 2 weeks off and on. It's a fun car with plenty of power, awesome handling & brakes. Depending on where you live, the suspension can be a little harsh on rough roads....like here in S.E. Michigan.

 

The Terlinugua package will totally transform your V6 into a different animal.

 

I have no regrets ALLOWING Sharon do it to hers. :happy feet:

[SPRSNK]

I am learning. I have learned to fill the tank

 

/sniff

 

I haven't.

[sleepless]

With respect to the castrol SRF. Yes. Excellent fluid. Yes. Expensive. I switched over to Brembo LCF 600. Significantly less money, higher compressability and has a higher boiling point. You should check it out.

 

Thanks for the pointer to the LCF 600, however, it is the Wet Boiling point of 270C (LCF is only 204C) that makes the SRF so excellent; it means you can leave it in for a long time without loosing much boiling resistance from absorbed moisture. Brake fluid degrades to its wet boiling point very quickly in most climates (meaning humid climates).

[Matts]

Sorry I have never spoke of where I race. It's very near to Cleburne, Texas, it's named MotorSport Ranch in Cresson. I race there every other month... I know the track every well I have been racing there since I have had my American citisenship (which was a year ago.)

 

I was nervous about making this car a daily driver with a roll bar and stripping it senseless, but as irony would have it we hired a highway patrolmen as a personal banker. I spoke with him and he told me that the only thing that he would have a problem with stripping it and and installing a roll bar, is making sure that the after market racing seat met state requirements. He asked me why I wanted to strip a new Mustang down to bare metal, and I said well I auto-cross and road race and I have to keep the mind set of power to weight ratio.

 

So my question is how much weight would I lose if I were to strip the seats, carpet, headliner, spare tyre and the radio. Also would carbon fiber hood, trunk, doors and front fenders make any difference in performance and/or handling.

 

Well other than that as of right now I have on order a aluminum driveshaft, Baer GT Brake package, but I am very indecisive about what kind of suspension I want. As for performance I am going to go with a high performance radiator, CAI, long tubes, dual exhaust, fuel injectors and high performance tune. I am taking 'sleepless' word and not going to with a forced induction.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Cheers!

:beerchug:

[svttim]

Sorry I have never spoke of where I race. It's very near to Cleburne, Texas, it's named MotorSport Ranch in Cresson. I race there every other month... I know the track every well I have been racing there since I have had my American citisenship (which was a year ago.)

 

I was nervous about making this car a daily driver with a roll bar and stripping it senseless, but as irony would have it we hired a highway patrolmen as a personal banker. I spoke with him and he told me that the only thing that he would have a problem with stripping it and and installing a roll bar, is making sure that the after market racing seat met state requirements. He asked me why I wanted to strip a new Mustang down to bare metal, and I said well I auto-cross and road race and I have to keep the mind set of power to weight ratio.

 

So my question is how much weight would I lose if I were to strip the seats, carpet, headliner, spare tyre and the radio. Also would carbon fiber hood, trunk, doors and front fenders make any difference in performance and/or handling.

 

Well other than that as of right now I have on order a aluminum driveshaft, Baer GT Brake package, but I am very indecisive about what kind of suspension I want. As for performance I am going to go with a high performance radiator, CAI, long tubes, dual exhaust, fuel injectors and high performance tune. I am taking 'sleepless' word and not going to with a forced induction.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Cheers!

:beerchug:

 

 

 

Wow, thats a mouthful. The more weight you take off the better you will be, especiallly in the front of the car. I would use a Ford Racing suspention. Coil overs are not real friendly to the street. Carbon fiber is expensive but may be worth it in the long run. I use ATE blue and Yellow for brake fluid. Its much less expensive than the others and I change it frquently anyway. Its nice becasue it comes in two colors so when you purge, you can tell when its through. It also comes in metal cans. Plastic allows moisture to accumulate if stored.

[sleepless]

RE: suspension.

 

I have a Shelby GT which comes with the Ford Racing suspension and while it is good, I don't think it is great, mainly because the dampers are a bit on the stiff side which makes the car a bit rough riding on some roads and on a less than perfect race track, the car is not as glued to the pavement as it would be with a softer set of dampers. I may eventually replace the FRPP dampers with the Tokico D Spec adjustable shocks and struts. These seem very nice because you can soften up the suspension for the street and bumpy tracks while stiffening it up for smooth tracks; plus you can change the front/rear bias to adjust for under/oversteer.

 

I think the FRPP springs and sways (which I believe are Eibach's) and the D Spec dampers would be a great suspension for street and road course. You'll need to get at least -2 degrees of camber up front; you may be able to get that by enlarging the bottom holes on the front struts (there is a Ford service writeup on how to do this).

 

RE: weight reduction

 

I'm always amazed how much all that carpet and sound deadening weighs! But, rollbars add weigh a lot too so be prepared to have the weight end up a wash after you make the car safe too...

 

Personally, I'd just put in some race buckets that are comfy and supportive, and a good rollbar and leave the interior alone; the noise will drive you nuts on the street. Then, focus on reducing unsprung weight; it makes a significant difference in the handling of the car and in acceleration. The main things you can change are wheels. The stock GT500 wheels are fairly heavy at 28lbs each. If you have the funds, you can get BBS and other forged one piece 18" wheels that are under 20lbs. Wheels are not only unsprung weight, but also rotational mass. The former affects how well you suspension will work in terms of keeping the tires planted on the road. The latter affects acceleration; with wheels, I believe it works out to 1lb == 4HP (don't quote me on that one ).

[WP64]

Coil overs are not real friendly to the street.

 

I will respectfully disagree with this assumption with one caveat, true coil-overs, such as Griggs/Koni coil-overs, with adjustable shocks are nice on the street as compared to a strut coil-overs and stiffer rear springs in the stock location, such as the Ground Control set-up which IMO appoaches the edge of not 'friendly' on the street but still streetable. Still, neither is as soft and quiet as stock, but we're in the racing forum so I'll assume we're not interested in a stock ride. The draw back between the two is the price of course...

[Matts]

Now...Have you looked at the Terlingua car? It's a V6. It handles beautifully on and off the track.

 

In all respect to your previous statement on the Terlingua Track car. I thought 20 inch wheels would be a horrible fit for the track, but that might just be me. I'm use to 18 inch with a wide tyre and 35 to 40 profile. So would a 20 inch wheel with 275 35 20 work well on the track or should I just keep the standard 18 wheels?

[WP64]

In all respect to your previous statement on the Terlingua Track car. I thought 20 inch wheels would be a horrible fit for the track, but that might just be me. I'm use to 18 inch with a wide tyre and 35 to 40 profile. So would a 20 inch wheel with 275 35 20 work well on the track or should I just keep the standard 18 wheels?

 

It depends on the track, if it's a road course stick with 18's, your selection of 'track' tires is more numerous with 18's. If it's a drag car, well I don't really know because that's not my bag but the Nitto DR's do come in 20's.

[Matts]

I'm not a big fan of drag racing. I don't mind watching, but participating is a different story. I love road racing, which explains why I posted in the road racing forum. Unfortunately the Mustang I drive everyday is a the V6 and I race on a regular basis. I would hate to tear down a Saleen or a Shelby, so "I'm taking one for the team," as they would say.