Need advice about retuning

[LuLu]

I hope I explain this right...

 

I spoke with my tuner and good friend Corey Simpson/Simpson Performance today, about getting LuLu professionally dyno tuned, and I am a bit confused now.

 

Corey explained that his experience with custom factory tunes is that they are locked in place and will not take any flash programming. He said his experience in tuning Roush and Saleen cars required him to take the car to a Ford dealership and have a stock Mustang GT tune flashed into the EEC before he could flash his custom tune in place. This ruins any chance of restoring the custom tune that comes with those special Roush/Saleen editions.

 

I don't believe this is the case with the Shelby programming. Many of you have posted here with results from buying a hand held programmer (SCT/DiabloSport) with canned tunes and upgrading your performance. Please clarify this for me? In my past experience, the present tune is saved for restoration in the programmer. Has this changed? Did any of y'all have any problems saving your stock SGT tune and flashing in a fresh tune?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[HIGHFLIGHT]

I hope I explain this right...

 

I spoke with my tuner and good friend Corey Simpson/Simpson Performance today, about getting LuLu professionally dyno tuned, and I am a bit confused now.

 

Corey explained that his experience with custom factory tunes is that they are locked in place and will not take any flash programming. He said his experience in tuning Roush and Saleen cars required him to take the car to a Ford dealership and have a stock Mustang GT tune flashed into the EEC before he could flash his custom tune in place. This ruins any chance of restoring the custom tune that comes with those special Roush/Saleen editions.

 

I don't believe this is the case with the Shelby programming. Many of you have posted here with results from buying a hand held programmer (SCT/DiabloSport) with canned tunes and upgrading your performance. Please clarify this for me? In my past experience, the present tune is saved for restoration in the programmer. Has this changed? Did any of y'all have any problems saving your stock SGT tune and flashing in a fresh tune?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

lulu,

I had to take mine to FORD yesterday to get the SHELBY tune taken out and reset to the std GT tune. It is locked and had to call FORD for the code. It is time sensitive good for 24 hours. Don't FORGET to take both sets of keys!!

and if you have a secret decoder ring might help....

regards

CW5 Ret. Wilson

[HIGHFLIGHT]

lulu,

I had to take mine to FORD yesterday to get the SHELBY tune taken out and reset to the std GT tune. It is locked and had to call FORD for the code. It is time sensitive good for 24 hours. Don't FORGET to take both sets of keys!!

and if you have a secret decoder ring might help....

regards

CW5 Ret. Wilson

 

 

I forgot to add...I talked with Bud at SHELBY to find out the drill. Whipple and KB both lock their codes so tuners won't tinker with the programs. Self protection I guess.

Regards

[tekheavy]

I hope I explain this right...

 

I spoke with my tuner and good friend Corey Simpson/Simpson Performance today, about getting LuLu professionally dyno tuned, and I am a bit confused now.

 

Corey explained that his experience with custom factory tunes is that they are locked in place and will not take any flash programming. He said his experience in tuning Roush and Saleen cars required him to take the car to a Ford dealership and have a stock Mustang GT tune flashed into the EEC before he could flash his custom tune in place. This ruins any chance of restoring the custom tune that comes with those special Roush/Saleen editions.

 

I don't believe this is the case with the Shelby programming. Many of you have posted here with results from buying a hand held programmer (SCT/DiabloSport) with canned tunes and upgrading your performance. Please clarify this for me? In my past experience, the present tune is saved for restoration in the programmer. Has this changed? Did any of y'all have any problems saving your stock SGT tune and flashing in a fresh tune?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

With the SCT tuner and I'm sure all other tuners, the first thing it does before anything is store your stock tune. And you can always put that original tune back in at anytime.

[LuLu]

With the SCT tuner and I'm sure all other tuners, the first thing it does before anything is store your stock tune. And you can always put that original tune back in at anytime.

It's been a while since I have done any custom tuning, and this is the way I remember it from my last experience.

 

Maybe it's a blower kit thing? Add a Whipple or KB kit and the tune is locked. Maybe this is why they offer a warranty, because they know no one can get inside and "fine tune" over the recommended limits? Could be...Makes sense.

 

LuLu is still N/A and stock Shelby/FRP tuned. Anyone here without a blower who can speak up about retuning a N/A SGT with a hand held programmer?

 

I'm on Corey's schedule for next week. The first thing I will do is dyno the car for a base line (post drive shaft install) and then let Corey do his thing. I am expecting a decent improvement in power, we'll see?

[stump_breaker]

The Hypertech stored the stock tune and reprogrammed with it's canned tune. No flashing to stock for me but.......

 

I have been having issues with predetonation and now that you have posted this it makes sense. According to Hypertech when I contacted them, the SGT tune is slightly different from a stock Mustang being designed to run with the 90mm intake and premium fuel. Canned tunes work off of stock programming. The Hypertech is advancing my timing too far and causing pinging at 4000 rpm's under WOT. They only way to remedy this so far is to detune to regular gas but still run premium. If not I still get predetonation. My car still runs like a bat out of hell - it fact with my current regular tune and premium fuel it actually runs better than it ever has according to my sophisticated butt dyno. What was really strange about the whole situation is it did not start doing this until outside temps increased. I had very slight predetonation when it was cooler but a bottle of octane boost always solved the problem. After it got hot outside there was no cure. Hypertech is working on a tune presently for my car or so I am told but being the class act Quantum has always been, they have also stepped up to the plate to resolve the issue.

 

So yes, with a canned tune I would probably reflash to a stock tune.

 

EDIT: 3:11pm

I just received this email so unless you're going to flash to stock, stay away from Hypertech.

Barry

Below is the reply from Engineering about your vehicle computer calibrations.

 

There’s no simple solution because the stock calibration is made with the Ford Racing air intake and for Premium Fuel only.

 

For now, don’t use our tuning.

 

I recommend programming back to stock and taking the unit back to the place of purchase for a refund. We will be glad to credit whichever warehouse that purchased the unit from us. Not sure when we'll resolve this issue. Probably means we'll need to get a test vehicle in house. Thanks and sorry about the inconvenience.

 

 

Jim

[tekheavy]

I have a Brenspeed tune with a SCT Tuner. It made a huge difference, especially with an automatic tranny. You can buy the tuner from Brenspeed or get one on ebay and Brent at Brenspeed will email you custom tunes for whatever your needs are. And he'll modify them for free for any mods you make after.

 

 

...Evan...

[moabman]

I had a stock GT tune. When I bought the FRPP Drag pack, I got the FRPP tune via the "featureless" tune swapper from FRPP. At this point, my stock GT tune was in the FRPP tuner and the FRPP tune was in the car. When I bought the Saleen blower from JDM that came with a blower tune, I had to dump my stock tune back in via the FRPP dongle, and then load the JDM tune from the SCT tuner that came with the blower.

 

At this point, the FRPP tune was in the dongle ("featureless FRPP tuner"), the JDM supercharger tune was in my car, and the stock Mustang GT tune was in the SCT tuner.

 

I don't know who's on first....

[blueone]

The Hypertech stored the stock tune and reprogrammed with it's canned tune. No flashing to stock for me but.......

 

I have been having issues with predetonation and now that you have posted this it makes sense. According to Hypertech when I contacted them, the SGT tune is slightly different from a stock Mustang being designed to run with the 90mm intake and premium fuel. Canned tunes work off of stock programming. The Hypertech is advancing my timing too far and causing pinging at 4000 rpm's under WOT. They only way to remedy this so far is to detune to regular gas but still run premium. If not I still get predetonation. My car still runs like a bat out of hell - it fact with my current regular tune and premium fuel it actually runs better than it ever has according to my sophisticated butt dyno. What was really strange about the whole situation is it did not start doing this until outside temps increased. I had very slight predetonation when it was cooler but a bottle of octane boost always solved the problem. After it got hot outside there was no cure. Hypertech is working on a tune presently for my car or so I am told but being the class act Quantum has always been, they have also stepped up to the plate to resolve the issue.

 

So yes, with a canned tune I would probably reflash to a stock tune.

 

I had the exact same problem with mine pinging at 4000 rpms except that it would not do it in first gear just 2nd and third gear in hot weather and i had sgt tune. I took it to the dealer and they hooked it up to the laptop and could find nothing wrong because thier computer could not read anything over 2000rpms so I took the tech for a ride and showed him what it was doing and they had no answers. So I asked around online and was told that it might be unmetered air (loose clamps on elbow etc..) so I tightened all the clamps and looked for holes and still no luck. So I bought the Steeda carbon elbow and a SCT 3 tuner but I did not install the tune for the elbow at first because people here said it was not needed and me being a rookie I did not want to mess with it if I did not have to even though Steeda said it was required. Well after I installed the elbow it was still doing the same thing so I decided to install the tune Steeda loaded on the tuner and it seems to have cured it. The tuner saved my old tune and loaded the new one no problem. I have better thottle response and no pinging problem with the new tune but there is a very slight lag going into second gear when shifting at low rpms. Also stopped using octane booster for about 2 tanks full before I made any changes and it was pinging with or without the booster. After saying all this I think there was a problem with the tune to begin with and all I know is that after I installed the tune from Steeda my car does not ping at 4000rpms in hot weather.

Jeff

[LuLu]

Stump...Thanks for the tip!

 

I had similar problems with my Marauders and the 4.6L-4V engine. Please do not hammer your SGT until the detonation issue is resolved. My answer was found in engine operating temperature, running too hot.

 

The Marauder and the SGT share the same short block, and have a 197 degree thermostat stock from the factory. Normal operating temps usually land in the 200 degree range, which is good for lower emissions, but bad for performance and MPG. Stuck in traffic on a hot day can produce pre-ignition and detonation, and that's not healthy for the 4.6L modular engine. It took a while to make things right again, and the solution turned out to be a combination of simple "tweaks".

 

-180 thermostat. I can't remember back that far, but I think I used a NAPA #12 stat. I tried a 160 as well, but it did not produce friendly results. The AFR was way rich.

-Water Wetter...2 pints in the cooling system.

-Denso IT-20 spark plugs...Rated as a "cooler" plug (which has nothing to do with temperature) but adding a more intense and efficient spark.

-Granatelli COPs (coil on plug, and I'm not sure if they make them for the -3V, but I know others do.)

-5W20 engine oil. I don't mean to start another oil discussion (they get so boring), but I personally tested several popular weights over the summer of 2003, as well as testing full and multi-blend synthetics. The 5W20 multi-blend synethtic showed the coolest temps under testing conditions, both stop-and-go/bumper to bumper traffic, and cruising at 80 MPH for an hour.

 

I concluded that the ideal operating temperature is 180-185 degrees, and my detonation went away to the degree that I could mix 91, 92 and 93 octane without any problems (93 isn't always available around me and I travel a lot where 91 is the highest octane available). Moreover, if you can avoid fuels with 10 percent Ethanol, do so. Straight up gasoline is more efficient, but the tree huggers will boo you.

 

Another thing I learned in my resolution, was to ocassionally pull the plugs and check the piston tops with a bore scope for carbon deposits. Carbon builds up from cheap fuel, poor timing, weak spark and overheated combustion chambers. It can be a real problem because the carbon can heat up on it's own and act like a glow plug, igniting the fuel charge before (and after) spark. In some cases, this can be fatal to the 4.6L short block.

 

You can resolve carbon build up with off the shelf additives. I prefer SeaFoam, one pint in the fuel system and one pint in the crankcase, 200 to 300 miles before an oil change.

 

You may want to try some of these tips, but again, don't hammer your SGT if it's detonating now. You'll earn a new engine. IMHO, if you can hear the detonation, the situation is much worse that you expect.

 

Best wishes, Stump, with your resolution.

[Shelby-Don]

My car is still NA and I have an SCT tuner with three different tunes from Breenspeed and the first time you plug the tuner into the port it sores the current factory tune from your car into the SCT unit. At this point you can switch between tunes as you like including reloading the stock SGT tune. When I purchased my tunes from Breenspeed they required codes off the module in order to build the programs not sure how that info is used. I do remember reading that if you are going to have a SC installed at SAI that they must reflash the car back to a stock GT tune in order to load the software supplied with the SC. So if you have already loaded an aftermarket tune you either have to put the stock SGT tune back or send your tuner with the car when the SC is installed

[LuLu]

My car is still NA and I have an SCT tuner with three different tunes from Breenspeed and the first time you plug the tuner into the port it sores the current factory tune from your car into the SCT unit. At this point you can switch between tunes as you like including reloading the stock SGT tune. When I purchased my tunes from Breenspeed they required codes off the module in order to build the programs not sure how that info is used. I do remember reading that if you are going to have a SC installed at SAI that they must reflash the car back to a stock GT tune in order to load the software supplied with the SC. So if you have already loaded an aftermarket tune you either have to put the stock SGT tune back or send your tuner with the car when the SC is installed

Thank you, sir, this is exactly what I needed to find out before moving forward. Looks like LuLu is going to be okay in her pursuit for more power (hungry bitch that she is) until I decide what blower kit to add to my list of mods.

 

Now I have a better idea of why the custom tunes for the Whipple and KB kits are players in this game. Resorting to a stock MGT tune is necessary because the native Whipple/KB blower kit tuning was designed for a blower kit upgrade to a stock Mustang GT. Apparently, the native SAI/FRP-SGT tune is not in their maps, and they cannot build on that specific tune.

 

The "codes" you mention are called "catch codes", very similar to "edition" or,"version" when talking in computerspeak about computer software. My three Marauders each had three different catch codes, but there was a total of five on the pavement. I had "BMDO", "CAN1" and CAN2", and when I had Corey dyno tune my Marauders, he needed to know which EEC catch code he was working with.

 

It's all starting to make sense to me...Thank you all, gents, be safe.

[SWEDEMAN]

I have a Brenspeed tune with a SCT Tuner. It made a huge difference, especially with an automatic tranny. You can buy the tuner from Brenspeed or get one on ebay and Brent at Brenspeed will email you custom tunes for whatever your needs are. And he'll modify them for free for any mods you make after.

 

 

...Evan...

 

True. Brenspeed has a tune that takes out the lag the SGT has when first stomping on the throttle and all around makes the car run better. The original Shelby tune is saved when being altered by Brenspeed and SCT Tuners. My car performs better than it did before.

[CudaFly]

I don't believe this is the case with the Shelby programming. Many of you have posted here with results from buying a hand held programmer (SCT/DiabloSport) with canned tunes and upgrading your performance. Please clarify this for me? In my past experience, the present tune is saved for restoration in the programmer. Has this changed? Did any of y'all have any problems saving your stock SGT tune and flashing in a fresh tune?

You may already have all of the information you need but here is one more data point.

 

When I installed the Shelby Paxton SC kit I went straight to an SCT custom tune loaded from an SCT handheld. After I got the car started in my garage I went right to the shop for the final custom tune tweaks on the dyno. Best money I spent on the car.

 

I did this because the DiabloSport Predator hand held tuner that comes with the Shelby Paxton kit is not able to load over the SGT FRPP ProCal tune that was installed at SAI. The DiabloSport Predator tuner needed to verify that there was a stock Mustang GT tune first before it would load. There were explicit instructions from SAI to return to stock before the install but I was able to skip that step by using the SCT handheld and not using the DiabloSport Predator.

 

As others have pointed out the SCT handhelds will read in whatever is loaded first and save that load as the baseline before installing a new load.

 

So depending on which software/handheld that is used you may or may not have to return the car to stock.

 

Hope this helps... Good luck...

 

 

[LuLu]

You may already have all of the information you need but here is one more data point.

 

When I installed the Shelby Paxton SC kit I went straight to an SCT custom tune loaded from an SCT handheld. After I got the car started in my garage I went right to the shop for the final custom tune tweaks on the dyno. Best money I spent on the car.

 

I did this because the DiabloSport Predator hand held tuner that comes with the Shelby Paxton kit is not able to load over the SGT FRPP ProCal tune that was installed at SAI. The DiabloSport Predator tuner needed to verify that there was a stock Mustang GT tune first before it would load. There were explicit instructions from SAI to return to stock before the install but I was able to skip that step by using the SCT handheld and not using the DiabloSport Predator.

 

As others have pointed out the SCT handhelds will read in whatever is loaded first and save that load as the baseline before installing a new load.

 

So depending on which software/handheld that is used you may or may not have to return the car to stock.

 

Hope this helps... Good luck...

 

 

Thank you, sir! I didn't know this. This is the best advice I have heard yet, I'll make sure to buy the SCT programmer.