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GT500 vs Terminator


zhb353

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Ran some 40mph punches (in 2nd gear) with my friend's '03 Cobra tonignt, both cars completely stock as far as we know, he just bought the Cobra(dealer thought maybe 3.73s). We were going to the top of 3rd gear because we didn't want to get stupid. I will be honest, I thought that the GT500 would pull 1/2 a car length. These card were pretty much dead even to the top of third, so don't be disillusioned when paying large ADM's thinking that this car will walk away from Terminators, because it just won't. I think that what little the GT500 will pull on the Terminator in the 1/4 will be in first and fourth, but it won't be much.

 

That being said, my GT500 is unbelievable, it is a blast to drive, but the '03 Cobra's are awesome cars too, and the Shelby has very little on them performance wise. I can't wait to see how this pans out, at the first of the year the Cobra's getting SLP's 575 kit and 4.10s and the GT500 is getting PHP stage II, exhaust, 4.10s and suspension upgrades to help it hook up.

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Ran some 40mph punches (in 2nd gear) with my friend's '03 Cobra tonignt, both cars completely stock as far as we know, he just bought the Cobra(dealer thought maybe 3.73s). We were going to the top of 3rd gear because we didn't want to get stupid. I will be honest, I thought that the GT500 would pull 1/2 a car length. These card were pretty much dead even to the top of third, so don't be disillusioned when paying large ADM's thinking that this car will walk away from Terminators, because it just won't. I think that what little the GT500 will pull on the Terminator in the 1/4 will be in first and fourth, but it won't be much.

 

That being said, my GT500 is unbelievable, it is a blast to drive, but the '03 Cobra's are awesome cars too, and the Shelby has very little on them performance wise. I can't wait to see how this pans out, at the first of the year the Cobra's getting SLP's 575 kit and 4.10s and the GT500 is getting PHP stage II, exhaust, 4.10s and suspension upgrades to help it hook up.

 

 

:doh: " as far as we know " ????? ok...........3:73 will make a difference and common tune horsepower increase on the Term is 20-30 hp, GT500 50-60 hp. I'd rather take the GT500 anyday.........the market is going wild with parts, just wait and see. The new king will wear a bigger crown.

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Quote by zhb353 "so don't be disillusioned when paying large ADM's thinking that this car will walk away from Terminators, because it just won't."

 

*No flame intended*

 

Cool comparison, but I don't think GT500 buyers are buying the car to out do another car. I had an 03 Evo 8 before ordering the GT500. I love the retro look of the GT500 and if the Challenger or the Camaro would have been released before the GT500, then I would have went after whatever released first.

 

I like muscle cars and motorcycles and buy whatever is unique.

 

If I could swing it I would buy a Challenger and a Camaro once they are released.

 

:rockon: Muscle Car Wars

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I did not buy this car to beat another car, I bought this car because I love it. Every time someone on this board says anything positive about the Terminator Cobra's it causes an uprising. I just wanted to shed some reality into the situation, and that realith is that BOTH of these cars are awesome muscle cars.

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I was wondering about this subject myself as I just read an article from Maximum-Cars.com that says the 03 Cobra weighs 3660 lbs and goes 12.90's with 3.55 stock gears. The GT500 has 110 more HP but weighs 300 pounds more. That may explain why you guys ran so close but it's hard to really compare the two cars unless you run them at the track from start to finish line. Mustangs and Fast Fords says they ran a bone stock GT500 to 12.2.

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Guest evilchris

I was wondering about this subject myself as I just read an article from Maximum-Cars.com that says the 03 Cobra weighs 3660 lbs and goes 12.90's with 3.55 stock gears. The GT500 has 110 more HP but weighs 300 pounds more. That may explain why you guys ran so close but it's hard to really compare the two cars unless you run them at the track from start to finish line. Mustangs and Fast Fords says they ran a bone stock GT500 to 12.2.

 

 

To compare to MMFF, you must powershift the car you are comparing. MMFF is a good magazine but drives cars completely differently than any other magazine, making comparisons difficult. The also ice intakes and other shenanigans.

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Quote by zhb353 "so don't be disillusioned when paying large ADM's thinking that this car will walk away from Terminators, because it just won't."

 

*No flame intended*

 

Cool comparison, but I don't think GT500 buyers are buying the car to out do another car. I had an 03 Evo 8 before ordering the GT500. I love the retro look of the GT500 and if the Challenger or the Camaro would have been released before the GT500, then I would have went after whatever released first.

 

I like muscle cars and motorcycles and buy whatever is unique.

 

If I could swing it I would buy a Challenger and a Camaro once they are released.

 

:rockon: Muscle Car Wars

 

 

Sold my Evo for the same reason. I miss that car. Had quite a few mods well enough to get to 350 AWHP and it would hook up like no ones business. Everone talks about how good a performance buy the Shelby is but for an all around speed and handling you can't touch the Evo.

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Sold my Evo for the same reason. I miss that car. Had quite a few mods well enough to get to 350 AWHP and it would hook up like no ones business. Everone talks about how good a performance buy the Shelby is but for an all around speed and handling you can't touch the Evo.

 

 

I agree. I come really close to buying a Evo. 9 MR until I was offered a MSRP deal for the GT500 Shelby.

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Yawn...

 

What is a Terminator? Never have given it a look or a thought. I wouldn't know it from any other earlier Mustang if it ran over me.

 

Love the GT500.

 

 

Only one of the most significant Mustangs in history capable of hanging with your GT500 stock vs stock and out handling your car all day long. You must be kidding I assume... :hysterical:

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Now, come on, guys. The Termies are great cars, but this thread started out comparing a well broken-in Termie with 3.73s and a tune to a bone stock GT500 with 3.31s barely-seated rings. Give me a break!

 

Yeah, the termies are fast and 300 lbs lighter than the GT500, and the GT500s 110HP more than makes up for that given the same gears -- do the math.

 

The Termie also handles very well with IRS but saying a Termie will out handle a GT500 all day long is really a bit of an exaggeration! Will the GT500 get a little skitterish on a ripple-surface sweeper -- sure. But the GT500 generates similar G-forces and it's suspension, stock-for-stock aside from the IRS, is improved over the Termie, IMHO. It's designed to be Grand Tourer. There's meaning in those words (beyond GM basterdizing the name for the GTO and as they've also done with the GrandAm). Somehow some are forgetting the dozens of improvements in the GT500 and where it's weight comes from -- and dozens is an understatement. I'm not going to get in an engineering discussion here, but suffice it to say the GT500 is, on balance, a really well-engineered car, IMO.

 

Hey, the Termie was and is a great car -- for what it is. The GT500 is also a great car -- they're different. The Termie was made to be easily modified and has proven it's excellent drag potential. But take a Termie to Watkins Glen and run it till the heat soak fries it and you'll see the GT500 is a diferent beast entirely. The heads & block combo has far better cooling characteristics than any stock Termie, the s/c has it's own vastly improved cooling system, the engine cooling system is well overengineered. And see how long thoseTermie brake pads last -- running flat out -- if the heat soak doesn't get theTermie bone-stock motor first. But who cares?!

 

Dead stock, the GT500 is a great car -- and, yes, it's just a Mustang ...I've got that -- really! Is it perfect? Of course not. No car is -- especially at $45K! Is it awesome nonetheless? Absolutely? More awesome than the Termies? I think so -- even if it had the same motor it would be superior in many ways starting with the S197 chassis, improved R&P, front suspenstion, specialized stiffening, etc, but there'd be no point in me posting smack about every way the GT500 is improved and rubbing that in the faces of Termie owners or anyone else. Why? Because it's socially inappropriate and the differences are not so dramatic as to warrant such smack talk. The differences are also should not be what separates us on this site -- it's what unites us. Don't understand why I say that? Can't help you there -- ask your parents where thay went wrong (sorry, not intended as a personal attack of anyone -- just a dead accurate statement).

 

So I could say, stock-for-stock, my '01 Cobra will out handle any Termie -- and that'd be a true statement due to it's better W/D, 100+ lbs lighter weight, and lower moment-of-yaw -- but who cares! This site isn't about my '01 Cobra (which is not as fast as a Termie or GT500). The point is, let's keep things relevant and in perspective and in the spirit of community and sharing.

 

You want to say you bought a used Termie with 3.73s and a tune and stayed with a bone stock fresh GT500. Great! Thanks for the insight -- really. But then let's be honest about the changes and differences and socially interact on that, not smack-talk the GT500 with irrelevant and unfounded claims -- it just serves no purpose.

 

--------

 

Btw, I don't have a GT500 on order. I could go buy one tomorrow for cash, but I won't because I feel it's a sweet $37-38K 'stang. But I'm not badmouthing the GT500 or any GT500 owner. Why? Because that'd be totally inappropriate -- it's an awesome car! And anyone who feels having one now is worth the price is testament to Ford's loyal enthusiast base and I applaud that! And the Termies were nice "$30K" mustangs (my value) -- and the $8K diff in my value system is well worth it. And let's not get into "if I put 8K into my Termie it'd kick the GT500's butt." Why? Because if I put the diff between my '01 Cobra (or a vanilla GT for that matter) and GT500 into mods it'd kill a Termie or the GT500 -- in the quarter mile -- but would go up in smoke flat out on a road course unless I spent a fortune making all the other changes necessary to bring those cars up to the GT500's all-round performance.

 

If a Boss 302 comes out at around $35-36K and settles down after a year or two at $34K it might just become my fave ride of all time -- and an extraordinary value. I still woun't be bad-mouthing the GT500 or the Termies or the '99/'01 Cobras (or their owners). There's just no reason to. They're all sweet rides, but if I ever get the urge to smack talk someone's ride, I can just to one of those other forums where such seems to be the modus operandi. Here, the M.O. is kinship, mutual assistance and honest sharing.

 

Don't like that? Go somewhere else or expect to be shunned

 

..end of :soapbox: .

 

Peace.

 

:shift:

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Now, come on, guys. The Termies are great cars, but this thread started out comparing a well broken-in Termie with 3.73s and a tune to a bone stock GT500 with 3.31s barely-seated rings. Give me a break!

 

Hey Fastback...

 

For guys like me that don't know a lot about previous generation Mustangs, can you describe or show pics of the VISUAL differences between a Terminator and a regular Mustang GT? In other words, how can you tell pulling up next to one at a stoplight that it's a Terminator?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

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Yawn...

 

What is a Terminator? Never have given it a look or a thought. I wouldn't know it from any other earlier Mustang if it ran over me.

 

Love the GT500.

 

 

 

2003-2004 Cobras were "code named" Terminators. There was no official "Terminator" designation by Ford.

 

People with Terminators are passionate, if not maniacal, about their cars. They can be pumped hard with CAI, pulley swap, flash, etc and make big horsepower. They have IRS versus a solid rear end.

 

'03-'04 Cobras were way overpriced and sat on lots in large numbers. Many bought early and paid too much (sound familiar to todays scenario?) At the end of the day, you could buy a Terminator for as much as $8,000 off MSRP because Ford subsidized up to $4,500 to dealers to get rid of the cars. They were also the fodder of the infamous Powerlease option. Lease a new SVT car for a couple of years or so and be first to get one of the new cars when they came out. Clearly that wasn't honored.

 

The interesting thing is that they couldn't give the damn things away...particularly in in Mystichrome (patterned, of course, from Richard Marx' Members Only chintz jacket from 1984). But, Termy owners list their cars on eBay for as much or more than the original MSRP. They're trying to capitalize on the hype and overpricing of the GT500s. You'll not find ANY getting those prices, but they are actually going across the block more frequently now. My "insider" (neighbor) from the auction says cherry, low mile '03-'4 Cobra coupes are worth about $21,000-$23,000 and 'verts are about $1,500 more.

 

'03s (well, some of them...up to I think March of the model year if I recall correctly) had a nasty valve train tick. LOTS of them were corrected....and the latter engines had no other problems. They actually changed engine mfg plants as I remember. '04s weren't included in this matter.

 

There was a 10th anniversary edition in '03. They had different wheels and were plagued with (my opinion only) a butt ugly two-tone red/black interior. According to the auction folks, this is a price deduction although not nearly as large of one as is the Mystichrome.

 

My not-so-flattering opinion aside, people with the two-tones and Mystics love their cars and I certainly respect that, regardless of my personal opinions. A well-tweaked Termy is a force to be taken seriously.

 

While they can make a ton of power (most were underrated.....380hp in the brochures, 400+ on the dyno), the Achillies of this car (on the drag strip) is, ironically, the biggest selling point for their owners...independent rear suspension. There have been a TON of them spitting out half shafts at the drag strip.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

:shift:

 

bj

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Guest evilchris

Yawn...

 

What is a Terminator? Never have given it a look or a thought. I wouldn't know it from any other earlier Mustang if it ran over me.

 

Love the GT500.

 

 

That's because you are into status symbols for cars, and not a real enthusiast. A terminator with a tune and pulley will spank your Ford GT in the 1/4.

 

Hey Fastback...

 

For guys like me that don't know a lot about previous generation Mustangs, can you describe or show pics of the VISUAL differences between a Terminator and a regular Mustang GT? In other words, how can you tell pulling up next to one at a stoplight that it's a Terminator?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

 

Front and rear bumper covers, hood, rims, and emblems. Painted mirrors is also a good cue. Also says "COBRA" on the rear bumper.

 

Cobra Front:

 

2004%20Cobra%20front%20800.jpg

 

GT Front:

 

mustanggtside1.jpg

 

Cobra Rear:

 

2004-SVT-Cobra-1.jpg

 

GT Rear:

 

2003Mustang07_lg.jpg

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Saw an '04 Cobra at the Mustangs Unlimited car show and he had a dyno sheet reporting 650+ HP, very impressive!! I am selling my '72 Fastback (520HP 351C) that I've owned for 19 years to make room for a new GT500 because I am so impressed with these new Mustangs, and I agree with Caroll Shelby when he says that THIS is the new golden age of musclecars. It is my opinion that the '07 GT500 is the true "King of the Road."

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Guest evilchris

2003-2004 Cobras were "code named" Terminators. There was no official "Terminator" designation by Ford.

 

People with Terminators are passionate, if not maniacal, about their cars. They can be pumped hard with CAI, pulley swap, flash, etc and make big horsepower. They have IRS versus a solid rear end.

 

'03-'04 Cobras were way overpriced and sat on lots in large numbers. Many bought early and paid too much (sound familiar to todays scenario?) At the end of the day, you could buy a Terminator for as much as $8,000 off MSRP because Ford subsidized up to $4,500 to dealers to get rid of the cars. They were also the fodder of the infamous Powerlease option. Lease a new SVT car for a couple of years or so and be first to get one of the new cars when they came out. Clearly that wasn't honored.

 

The interesting thing is that they couldn't give the damn things away...particularly in in Mystichrome (patterned, of course, from Richard Marx' Members Only chintz jacket from 1984). But, Termy owners list their cars on eBay for as much or more than the original MSRP. They're trying to capitalize on the hype and overpricing of the GT500s. You'll not find ANY getting those prices, but they are actually going across the block more frequently now. My "insider" (neighbor) from the auction says cherry, low mile '03-'4 Cobra coupes are worth about $21,000-$23,000 and 'verts are about $1,500 more.

 

'03s (well, some of them...up to I think March of the model year if I recall correctly) had a nasty valve train tick. LOTS of them were corrected....and the latter engines had no other problems. They actually changed engine mfg plants as I remember. '04s weren't included in this matter.

 

There was a 10th anniversary edition in '03. They had different wheels and were plagued with (my opinion only) a butt ugly two-tone red/black interior. According to the auction folks, this is a price deduction although not nearly as large of one as is the Mystichrome.

 

My not-so-flattering opinion aside, people with the two-tones and Mystics love their cars and I certainly respect that, regardless of my personal opinions. A well-tweaked Termy is a force to be taken seriously.

 

While they can make a ton of power (most were underrated.....380hp in the brochures, 400+ on the dyno), the Achillies of this car (on the drag strip) is, ironically, the biggest selling point for their owners...independent rear suspension. There have been a TON of them spitting out half shafts at the drag strip.

 

Hope this helps.

:shift:

 

bj

 

 

What's funny is, if Ford stuck a $1.00 SHELBY emblem on them, people here wold pay $60k for them. That's a pretty negative review and full of BS btw. Spitting out half shafts at SIX HUNDRED HORSEPOWER yes, much like the GT500's piece of shit driveshaft. Your "review" is biased as hell.

 

I notice you leave things like the Manley H-Beam rods out of your term review, since your GT500's achillies heel is its rods.

 

What a hilarious thread. What a bunch of NON Mustang fans. "What's a Cobra look like?". Un freaking believeable.

 

The GT500 will NEVER make its mark like the 03/04 Cobra did because 90% of them are owned by a bunch of old men in their late-life crisis who will treat them like collectibles and "baby" them.

 

I like how you act like no one wanted them. THIRTEEN THOUSAND WERE SOLD IN 2003 ALONE

 

God I'm beginning to hate GT500 snobs who think all other Mustangs suck and the GTR500 is the holy grail. It weighs 3900 lbs. It will never be the ultimate Mustang.

 

Keep thinking every other Mustang on the road is a piece of shit. I'm going to to quit driving my 07 GT for awhile and get back in my 92 "5.0" for and put a few bus lengths on some GT500's to teach you guys some humility. My 92' has a full MM suspension, a Paxton NOVI 2000 @ 16 PSI on a 331 stroker, a Viper-spec t56, and 03 Cobra brakes.

 

My money's on the table.... I', sure your GT500 will spank me since afterall it was forged by the Hand of God.

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What's funny is, if Ford stuck a $1.00 SHELBY emblem on them, people here wold pay $60k for them. That's a pretty negative review and full of BS btw. Spitting out half shafts at SIX HUNDRED HORSEPOWER yes, much like the GT500's piece of shit driveshaft. Your "review" is biased as hell.

 

I notice you leave things like the Manley H-Beam rods out of your term review, since your GT500's achillies heel is its rods.

 

What a hilarious thread. What a bunch of NON Mustang fans. "What's a Cobra look like?". Un freaking believeable.

 

The GT500 will NEVER make its mark like the 03/04 Cobra did because 90% of them are owned by a bunch of old men in their late-life crisis who will treat them like collectibles and "baby" them.

 

I like how you act like no one wanted them. THIRTEEN THOUSAND WERE SOLD IN 2003 ALONE

 

God I'm beginning to hate GT500 snobs who think all other Mustangs suck and the GTR500 is the holy grail. It weighs 3900 lbs. It will never be the ultimate Mustang.

 

Keep thinking every other Mustang on the road is a piece of shit. I'm going to to quit driving my 07 GT for awhile and get back in my 92 "5.0" for and put a few bus lengths on some GT500's to teach you guys some humility. My 92' has a full MM suspension, a Paxton NOVI 2000 @ 16 PSI on a 331 stroker, a Viper-spec t56, and 03 Cobra brakes.

 

My money's on the table.... I', sure your GT500 will spank me since afterall it was forged by the Hand of God.

 

 

What's more amazing is the fact that you're going back to the old EvilChris, just that... evil. You started terrible, but did get better. Now you're telling us the future on how the GT500 won't make an impact like the Term??? and you know this how Kreskin??? And you're now the rod expect too??? Gee, so many have gone thru the block already, you must really know?? Give all of us a break please.

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Guest evilchris

What's more amazing is the fact that you're going back to the old EvilChris, just that... evil. You started terrible, but did get better. Now you're telling us the future on how the GT500 won't make an impact like the Term??? and you know this how Kreskin??? And you're now the rod expect too??? Gee, so many have gone thru the block already, you must really know?? Give all of us a break please.

 

 

Wait...so you guys can talk shit about all other Mustangs, but when a rebuttal happens, that's not OK? WHATEVER.

 

There aren't many reports of GT500's failing because most will be kept STOCK as the owners bought them to "be cool" and not for performance.

 

I'm not bagging the GT500 engine, I'm bagging the jokers who think it is somehow vastly superior to last generation. It's not.

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What's funny is, if Ford stuck a $1.00 SHELBY emblem on them, people here wold pay $60k for them. That's a pretty negative review and full of BS btw. Spitting out half shafts at SIX HUNDRED HORSEPOWER yes, much like the GT500's piece of shit driveshaft. Your "review" is biased as hell.

 

I notice you leave things like the Manley H-Beam rods out of your term review, since your GT500's achillies heel is its rods.

 

What a hilarious thread. What a bunch of NON Mustang fans. "What's a Cobra look like?". Un freaking believeable.

 

The GT500 will NEVER make its mark like the 03/04 Cobra did because 90% of them are owned by a bunch of old men in their late-life crisis who will treat them like collectibles and "baby" them.

 

I like how you act like no one wanted them. THIRTEEN THOUSAND WERE SOLD IN 2003 ALONE

 

God I'm beginning to hate GT500 snobs who think all other Mustangs suck and the GTR500 is the holy grail. It weighs 3900 lbs. It will never be the ultimate Mustang.

 

Keep thinking every other Mustang on the road is a piece of shit. I'm going to to quit driving my 07 GT for awhile and get back in my 92 "5.0" for and put a few bus lengths on some GT500's to teach you guys some humility. My 92' has a full MM suspension, a Paxton NOVI 2000 @ 16 PSI on a 331 stroker, a Viper-spec t56, and 03 Cobra brakes.

 

My money's on the table.... I', sure your GT500 will spank me since afterall it was forged by the Hand of God.

 

You know EC, I actually like you.

Buttt... I totally disagree with the comparison.

I just wrote a response to this same discussion a few minutes ago, and quite frankly, I don't feel like posting it twice.

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/forums/inde...&st=0

 

By the way, it's post #14.

 

Go to the link, and if you disagree, so be it.

 

Mike.

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Hey Fastback...

 

For guys like me that don't know a lot about previous generation Mustangs, can you describe or show pics of the VISUAL differences between a Terminator and a regular Mustang GT? In other words, how can you tell pulling up next to one at a stoplight that it's a Terminator?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave. Terminator was Ford's code name for the '03-'04 Mustang Cobras, so they all say Cobra and have the familiar snake -- they're the previous generation SN95-based Cobras. 4.6L s/c iron motor, DOHC like the GT500, except not based on the Ford GT block and improved heads. 390HP/390ft-lbs, T56, IRS. With CAI, exhaust, OD pulleys, tune = 450-470 RWHP. They used the Manley rods (similar to the Ford GT) so the bottom end is probably as stout as the GT500 so many have been moded well beyond 600HP. They are the last SVT Cobras before the GT500 and have a faithful following. Some Pix There's tons of goodies available for the "Termies" as they are affectionately know.

 

PS the GT500 codename was Condor -- the biggest flying bird in the world today -- related to the vulture. No wonder Condor hasn't stuck. The Terminators (more pix & specs) were engineered under the teutalage of John Coletti, former head of SVT (retired in 2005) and were so named because they were specifically designed to terminate the hi-po Camaro offering that GM eventually pulled.

 

:shift:

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Now, come on, guys. The Termies are great cars, but this thread started out comparing a well broken-in Termie with 3.73s and a tune to a bone stock GT500 with 3.31s barely-seated rings. Give me a break!

 

Yeah, the termies are fast and 300 lbs lighter than the GT500, and the GT500s 110HP more than makes up for that given the same gears -- do the math.

 

The Termie also handles very well with IRS but saying a Termie will out handle a GT500 all day long is really a bit of an exaggeration!

 

Normally I just lurk a little here as I do not have a GT500, but I cannot get over how full of yourselves some guys are here! The GT500 is a GREAT car, but it will not handle as well as an 03/04 Cobra. It's pretty simple; the car is overweight. WAY overweight. Solid rear axle compared to IRS. Stock to stock, there probably pretty similar in the 1/4 mile, with the GT500 a little quicker. The new SN197 Mustangs are big. The GT500 is really not that different than a Mustang GT save engine and bolt ons. It's a cool car, but guys keep an open mind here. All cars have their plusses and minuses. So what. Enjoy what you have, and if you think you are so incredibly fast, run an 03/04 Cobra when you see one. I doubt you will find one without mods as the car is SO easy to make big power (as the Gt500 is) and yes, it is a lot lighter, so don't bet your check on beating one. I will have NO problem running a GT500 if I get a chance. If he has more boost and mods, I may get beat. I he's stock, C-ya! It's all about power to weight...

BTW, the 03/04 cobra were WAY underrated with most cars making 370 or so at the tires stock. Mine made 368 SAE corrected totally stock before I began making changes. This is about 425 FWHP.

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