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Let's Talk Track Tires


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Tires, those 4 patches of rubber that connect us all to the road, so what tires do you run on the track? What do you like about them, what don't you like about them? Are they predictable, how long do they last?

 

Tire prep, tread shaving, track inflation, temperature readings and how they are used are up for discussion.

 

Give us the skinny on your set-up.

 

I'll go first.

 

Last spring-summer I ran the stock GT500 wheels with Goodyear F1's (255/45/18F - 285/40/18R) at two open track days. They're a good performance street tire, even better when consider that they're an OEM tire; on the track they were preditable when hot and had good traction. I ran them at 38psi hot on the track and my speed never exceeded 130mph in the longest straights.

 

In October I switched over to a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires (265/35/19F - 295/30/19R) on CCW 505A wheels. The whole suspension had changed since my first two track days so it would be hard to compare the PS2's to the F1's, so I won't go there. The PS2's have very good traction, predictable and with a stiffer sidewall mostly due to their height. I ran them at 39psi hot on the track and my speed never exceeded 140mph in the longest straights.

 

When my car comes back from Griggs I will be switching over to Toyo R-888's (305/35/18 front and rear) and CCW C14 wheels. I've had several people recommend these tires to me including Griggs and CCW for DOT track tires. The following link talks about the Toyo R-888's and R-1, as well as Hankook and Hooser Tires, this shop services Infenion Raceway in Northern California, they know their track tires.

 

"WHAT TIRE SHOULD I BUY?"

 

 

Here's some other tire tech links that may be of use to the racing forum.

 

Air Pressure/Load Adjustment for High Speed Driving

 

Reading Tire Temperatures

 

Shaving Tires for Competition

 

Track Tire Tech 101

 

More Track Tire Tech 101 from BFG

 

 

Be safe, drive fast, brake late, turn hard and have fun,

 

Jay

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Hi Jay,

 

I do know that the "Tire Rack F Stock SOLO National Champion" for 07 is running an 07 Shelby GT with Hoosier R's. He is also running the same set up this year and is cranking out wins. They anticipate that he will be a repeat winner for 08. I have to look up exactly what size and specs but it sounds like a good set up for the GT.

 

Roger

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Hi Jay,

 

I do know that the "Tire Rack F Stock SOLO National Champion" for 07 is running an 07 Shelby GT with Hoosier R's. He is also running the same set up this year and is cranking out wins. They anticipate that he will be a repeat winner for 08. I have to look up exactly what size and specs but it sounds like a good set up for the GT.

 

Roger

 

There is a Shelby GT in F stock here in WPB running the Hoosier R's and he does real well. I'm looking at the BFGoodrich g-Force R1's, they are a bit cheaper and they have good reviews. I would like to put 285X30ZR18's at all 4 corners. Anyone out there doing that?

My challenge for autocross is my GT500 is placed in A Stock, I'm not very competitive with the Honda S2000's. Is anyone else running autocross with a GT500? What class are you guys in? I am at the point where I need soome sticky tires to improve my times. My driving skills are there now I need traction.

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Hi Jay,

 

I do know that the "Tire Rack F Stock SOLO National Champion" for 07 is running an 07 Shelby GT with Hoosier R's. He is also running the same set up this year and is cranking out wins. They anticipate that he will be a repeat winner for 08. I have to look up exactly what size and specs but it sounds like a good set up for the GT.

 

Roger

 

Hey Roger,

 

As a strictly 'Track' tire the R6's are a excellent tire I've been told, but I've also been told (w/o personal experience) that they are not a good street/track tire. Again, both Griggs and CCW advised me that if I was 'driving to the track' on my track tires, the R6's were not a good choice because they're thin and susceptible to road hazzard blow out such as pot holes; Griggs uses Hoosier tires on their AIX cars and R6's on their GR40TT '06 Mustang shop car so I wouldn't suspect any brand bias in their opinion about the R6's on the street. The R6's do get great reviews when compared to Toyo, Hankook and Michelin, etc. and once I go to a dedicated set of track wheels/tires I will try the R6's.

 

Hit The "Reviews' tab at the top of the header in the following link for customer reviews of the Hoosier R6's

 

Tire Rack Hoosier R6

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Tires, those 4 patches of rubber that connect us all to the road, so what tires do you run on the track? What do you like about them, what don't you like about them? Are they predictable, how long do they last?

 

Tire prep, tread shaving, track inflation, temperature readings and how they are used are up for discussion.

 

Give us the skinny on your set-up.

 

I'll go first.

 

Last spring-summer I ran the stock GT500 wheels with Goodyear F1's (255/45/18F - 285/40/18R) at two open track days. They're a good performance street tire, even better when consider that they're an OEM tire; on the track they were preditable when hot and had good traction. I ran them at 38psi on the track and my speed never exceeded 130mph in the longest straights.

 

In October I switched over to a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires (265/35/19F - 295/30/19R) on CCW 505A wheels. The whole suspension had changed since my first two track days so it would be hard to compare the PS2's to the F1's, so I won't go there. The PS2's have very good traction, predictable and with a stiffer sidewall mostly due to their height. I ran them at 39psi on the track and my speed never exceeded 140mph in the longest straights.

 

When my car comes back from Griggs I will be switching over to Toyo R-888's (305/35/18 front and rear) and CCW C14 wheels. I've had several people recommend these tires to me including Griggs and CCW for DOT track tires. The following link talks about the Toyo R-888's and R-1, as well as Hankook and Hooser Tires, this shop services Infenion Raceway in Northern California, they know their track tires.

 

"WHAT TIRE SHOULD I BUY?"

 

 

Here's some other tire tech links that may be of use to the racing forum.

 

Air Pressure/Load Adjustment for High Speed Driving

 

Reading Tire Temperatures

 

Shaving Tires for Competition

 

Track Tire Tech 101

 

More Track Tire Tech 101 from BFG

 

 

Be safe, drive fast, brake late, turn hard and have fun,

 

Jay

 

 

I currently run the Toyo R-888's on all four corners. 275/35/18. I am going to a little higher sidewall in the rear as well as some additional width but to have this size tire all the way around on all four corners is awesome. The tire performs well at all of the tracks I've used them on. I will say this much. They are sticky after you get them warmed up and you don't need nearly the initially amount of air pressure you have indicated you are running. I have found that they work very well starting out at 30 lbs. After 10 minutes a quick run through the hot pit and air pressure is up to about 32-34 lbs which is optimal and the car sticks very well. 35 lbs + it feels like you are trying to steer the USS Nimitz between two canoes. The contact patch simply reduces at higher air pressures and the car will start to slide on you. Once you have the Griggs in with the toyo's if you start to notice some understeed and/or oversteer definitely go into the hot pit and play with the pressures. It will make a huge difference and the R888's are Night and Day different than the F-1 Supercar Tires.

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I'm going to P275/35ZR-18 Hoosier R6 and P255/40ZR-18 Hoosier R6 for my track/race tires. Have them sitting in the garage and mounted on the new wheels just waiting for me. I looked at them a bit ago and they seemed to be pleading with me to take them to the track.

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I have used Hoosier R6's Nitto NT1's, and Avons. The Hoosiers we sticky and performed well but, I will say, once they are gone, they are gone! Hoosiers tech support is superb. The nittos we great, stuck well and seeme to last well except I corded one. I have a used set of Toyo's I will be trying next week as well as a used set of Koni Challange tires. Has anyone tried Goodyear R compound tires? Shelby Goodyear has a good price on them.

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I have used Hoosier R6's Nitto NT1's, and Avons. The Hoosiers we sticky and performed well but, I will say, once they are gone, they are gone! Hoosiers tech support is superb. The nittos we great, stuck well and seeme to last well except I corded one. I have a used set of Toyo's I will be trying next week as well as a used set of Koni Challange tires. Has anyone tried Goodyear R compound tires? Shelby Goodyear has a good price on them.

 

Road America next week for you, right? That will be fun :banvictory: We expect video :yup:

 

Do you have a link for the Goodyear R compound tires?

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Yup, RA and Im sure Ill have video. I dont have the new motor and that will hurt a bit on the long track.

 

Heres the link

 

http://www.carrollshelbyent.com/tires_showroom.cfm#f1_gs_cs

 

Which car do you track with? My focus with my 07 GT500 is cooling cooling cooling. The car is just losing way to much horsepower as it gets hot and the computer pulls timing. Working on a new radiator set up as well as heat exchanger and oil cooler. I'm wishing I had a naturally aspirated car because these supercharged cars seem to be so difficult to get the heat undercontrol.

 

Thoughts?

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Which car do you track with? My focus with my 07 GT500 is cooling cooling cooling. The car is just losing way to much horsepower as it gets hot and the computer pulls timing. Working on a new radiator set up as well as heat exchanger and oil cooler. I'm wishing I had a naturally aspirated car because these supercharged cars seem to be so difficult to get the heat undercontrol.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

From what I have experienced, all the guys that have supercharged cars have the same issue to some extent. I dont race the GT500, I have a 97 Bonderant Cobra I thrash. I am building a 4 valve stroker to try. I do have a good friend that I can ask, he has raced his GT500 several times

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From what I have experienced, all the guys that have supercharged cars have the same issue to some extent. I dont race the GT500, I have a 97 Bonderant Cobra I thrash. I am building a 4 valve stroker to try. I do have a good friend that I can ask, he has raced his GT500 several times

 

Its just like anything. We're trying to take factory cruisers to the track and it requires some mods. I think the radiator, heat exchanger, oil cooler are the biggest items to get the temps down. Especially after you put a bigger blower on. The GT500 is a lot of fun for the first 10 minutes and then the heat kicks in. In the Winter time in Florida though, no problems, Summer, sucks.

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Very interesting topics for me. I run 305 goodyear F1's on all corners for the street and have done a couple of track days on them but found them very slippery on the track. I tried several tire pressures hot and couldn't find the right combination. I recently went to 305 Toyo R888's on light weight race wheels...wow, what a difference. The correct tire pressure is a mystery to me. I have been told to increase pressure by some and told to redure to 30 pounds hot by others. What is true? Any feedback as to what pressure to set cold, and again hot would be helpful. Does the track surface, ambient temp, length time on track, etc. have any impact on tire presures. Wher do I go to get schooled on tires and pressures?

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Very interesting topics for me. I run 305 goodyear F1's on all corners for the street and have done a couple of track days on them but found them very slippery on the track. I tried several tire pressures hot and couldn't find the right combination. I recently went to 305 Toyo R888's on light weight race wheels...wow, what a difference. The correct tire pressure is a mystery to me. I have been told to increase pressure by some and told to redure to 30 pounds hot by others. What is true? Any feedback as to what pressure to set cold, and again hot would be helpful. Does the track surface, ambient temp, length time on track, etc. have any impact on tire presures. Wher do I go to get schooled on tires and pressures?

 

Hey Glen, the links I provided above on track tire tech will give you a good understanding on how to read tire temps and adjust pressure.

 

Jay

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Jay-

 

Well, I've been running 30 psi "hot" on the tracks so far and I seem to be wearing the outside edges of the R888's. The recommended pressure by the links you provided would be nearly 42 psi. The guys at Griggs are adamant about running 30 psi. I think I need to get a tire pyrometer and check it myself. The R888's are really fun though, what a different car with that suspension and these tires. Z06's, Porsches, other mustangs are just in the mirror... disappearing. First time on the track with the new pulley, tune and CAI. WOW. You will have a blast with the "new" car when they get done. See you out there.

 

Glen

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Jay-

 

Well, I've been running 30 psi "hot" on the tracks so far and I seem to be wearing the outside edges of the R888's. The recommended pressure by the links you provided would be nearly 42 psi. The guys at Griggs are adamant about running 30 psi. I think I need to get a tire pyrometer and check it myself. The R888's are really fun though, what a different car with that suspension and these tires. Z06's, Porsches, other mustangs are just in the mirror... disappearing. First time on the track with the new pulley, tune and CAI. WOW. You will have a blast with the "new" car when they get done. See you out there.

 

Glen

 

30 starting seems a like a good start cold. But, if the outsides of the tire is wearing increase the pressures . Tire temps will tell the story though. Remember, those links were talking about street tires. I have been told, start at 30 or 32 and see what you hot pressures are. They should be around 40-42 hot.

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Jay-

 

Well, I've been running 30 psi "hot" on the tracks so far and I seem to be wearing the outside edges of the R888's. The recommended pressure by the links you provided would be nearly 42 psi. The guys at Griggs are adamant about running 30 psi. I think I need to get a tire pyrometer and check it myself. The R888's are really fun though, what a different car with that suspension and these tires. Z06's, Porsches, other mustangs are just in the mirror... disappearing. First time on the track with the new pulley, tune and CAI. WOW. You will have a blast with the "new" car when they get done. See you out there.

 

Glen

 

Yes, I see your car is not at Griggs anymore. I had a small hand in your pulley swap, I lent them my Metco pulley puller and showed them how to set it up last Tuesday, it came off clean w/o dents which is a 50/50 deal sometimes; some stock pullies just don't want to come off and can get dented by the puller, your's did not though.

 

The track was open today and there was a GT500 with white Super Snake stripes over the top running the course with a bunch of C6 Corvettes, a Z06, a Viper and a Miata; the GT500 had stock suspension so it ran good in the straights but slow and loud in the turns; nice to hear that supercharger as it passed the stands.

 

Summit has pyrometers from $25 to $60, Summit Infrared Digital Thermometers/Pyrometers Their Summit branded one for $49.99 is made by Taylor, I have the same one but with the Taylor brand name on it. Now you just have to find someone to take the temps. while you're in the drivers seat :D

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svttim,

 

I've been running the used Koni Challenge Hoosiers on my GT500. However, I have no other OT experience so I'll be very interested in your feedback. My guess is that they aren't the stickiest gumballs around, but I've gotten some pretty good mileage out of them. I've been starting them at 29psi cold and usually see 36 to 37psi after the cool down lap. Any more pressure, and the car understeers pretty bad.

 

I've been thinking about trying the Nitto NT01's, but for the price I just can't justify anything but the scuffed Hoosiers.

 

gcesera,

 

I think 30psi hot is pretty darn low. That would make me nervous...........

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svttim,

 

I've been running the used Koni Challenge Hoosiers on my GT500. However, I have no other OT experience so I'll be very interested in your feedback. My guess is that they aren't the stickiest gumballs around, but I've gotten some pretty good mileage out of them. I've been starting them at 29psi cold and usually see 36 to 37psi after the cool down lap. Any more pressure, and the car understeers pretty bad.

 

I've been thinking about trying the Nitto NT01's, but for the price I just can't justify anything but the scuffed Hoosiers.

 

gcesera,

 

I think 30psi hot is pretty darn low. That would make me nervous...........

 

That's why I'm looking or input. The guy who told me to use 30 psi hot is a multiple time winner of AIX races and has been a racer his whole life and runs Hoosiers on most of his cars and Toyo RA 1's on his street cars. He is adamant that 30 is the number for these cars. The car dusted porsches, corvette Z06's all day...., went where I pointed it...yahoo.

Any other thoughts? The thing I've noticed is everyone has a theory about tire pressure and it seems a little like "black art" to me. (get the pun) Musw thave something to do with how rigid the side wall is and the compond and manufacturing technique of the maker. Does anyone know of a definitive dissertation on tire pressure for heavy cars?

Glen

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That's why I'm looking or input. The guy who told me to use 30 psi hot is a multiple time winner of AIX races and has been a racer his whole life and runs Hoosiers on most of his cars and Toyo RA 1's on his street cars. He is adamant that 30 is the number for these cars. The car dusted porsches, corvette Z06's all day...., went where I pointed it...yahoo.

Any other thoughts? The thing I've noticed is everyone has a theory about tire pressure and it seems a little like "black art" to me. (get the pun) Musw thave something to do with how rigid the side wall is and the compond and manufacturing technique of the maker. Does anyone know of a definitive dissertation on tire pressure for heavy cars?

Glen

 

 

 

I have been running the F1s 285x18 front and rear on my Shelby for some time now. Cold pressure 34 rear 36 front. Hot I see 42 and 44. At Daytona's drivers meeting they had a local tire dealer explain what we needed to run for air pressure on the high banks. He said that the right side tires should be higher about 4 to 6 and as high as 10lbs depending on the car, more weight more air. But the most important statement he made was tires fail from under inflation not over inflation. It was better to give up a little in the turns to have the safety of the higher pressures on the high banks and the high speeds reached in the straights. I ran 2 min 15 sec on the road course with stock suspending and 285 F1s front and rear. I had hot pressures from side to side of 46 to 52lbs. My car weights 4120 with me and 2 gals of gas. I really don't believe anyone really knows what's correct for our heavy cars unless they have tracked one. Tracking the car at Sebring now that it is Snaked the car with the 255 and 275 Pirelli's works great compared to it in stock form. I will be at Daytona in Oct and will use the 285 F1s front and back just because I know what to expect, will carry the weight, and don't cost as much as the race tires. As for the tire pressure high is good at least the side wall pressure when hot. And for the wear on the fronts it will improve as you get smoother in the turns. I killed mine in just my first 2 weekends. Then got the new 285s for the back and moved the rears to the front. 12000 miles on the car the old 285s are still usable. I have found because of the weight that I'm

much faster by entering the turns before the brake zone coasting and applying the brakes much sooner and lighter as to lift off the brake foot over the gas or just into it up to the apex and then roll back in . This cars are so heavy and if no one has notice yet they coast like your still on the gas. Once this mass is moving its best to let it pull itself around only braking enough as to enter the turn at a speed which lets you hold your foot on the gas. This lets you walk into the throttle as soon as possible up to speed hold the throttle coast to the brake zone apply the brakes a little at a time even letting off if needed to keep the speed up once at the turn in you should be on the gas or at least over it. OK sorry I need a speed fix. I got way off subject. Hope I helped a little but what ever tires you choose just make sure they are rated for the correct weight.

 

John

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svttim,

 

I've been running the used Koni Challenge Hoosiers on my GT500. However, I have no other OT experience so I'll be very interested in your feedback. My guess is that they aren't the stickiest gumballs around, but I've gotten some pretty good mileage out of them. I've been starting them at 29psi cold and usually see 36 to 37psi after the cool down lap. Any more pressure, and the car understeers pretty bad.

 

I've been thinking about trying the Nitto NT01's, but for the price I just can't justify anything but the scuffed Hoosiers.

 

gcesera,

 

I think 30psi hot is pretty darn low. That would make me nervous...........

 

 

Well, I wsq very pleased with the Koni Challenge tire. Your right, they ar not the stickiest tire. I corded one, my brake balance is incorrect and the backs are not allowing the nose to dive. I did pretty well this weekend taking second in the autocross laps, sencond to a 95 R model cobra with65 more hoursepower at the rear wheels. Sundy, I used the Shelby. I was on streat tires, stock suspension and stock motor. In some ways I was a actuallly impressed, like the carosel at RA but taking corners is a chore. I still passed a few cars ;) Greatr weekend. Sold out but would have been nice to see more of you guys.

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I have autocrossed and road raced for many years (since the early 70's). Almost all in Mustangs of one sort or another. I have also had experience with a number of different track tires. I think you should really only consider the Hoosier A6/R6 (autocross/roadrace) if you are at the top levels of competitivenes or jsut have a really big tire budget. They don't last very long but are very fast. Forget any sort of street/track compromise, they are seneitive to the numer of heat cycles and would lose stickiness driving to work. They also have only two groves around the tire, so there is literally no tread. Hope that the cop that stops you understands the tire rules, or else you will get a ticket for bald tires... even though they are almost new.

 

The next step down is the Kumho V710. They still have virtually no tread, almost the same as the Hoosiers. But they do last longer, but the true hotshoes tend to think they give up just a little in lap time to Hoosiers. They are less expensive than the Hoosier, but pretty much in the same league performance wise. These two are the top of the DOT R-compound game and nothing else is really close now.

 

The Avons are Hoosier clones, they look like they came out of the same mold, so I consider them the same tire.

 

The Toyo RA-1 is a step down and had real tire tread and could actually be used for limited mileage on the street. They are adtually pretty durable and not that expensive. But there are limited tire sizes in 18".

 

The Falken Azenis RT615 is a reasonable choice for a street/track tire. They are decent track tires (not as good as any R compound) but they can actually get reasonable mileage on the street. They pass the SCCA Solo II rules for a true street tire for the ST classes if you happen to be so inclined. I had a set on my RX7 for about 2 years with an occasional track event or autocross for good measure. Don't expect the same from a Shelby used as a daily driver.

 

BF Goodrich R1 has come back to life in the track world after being more or less absent for a number of years. They are making a good comeback and worth considering. I think BFG has the best quality of any of the track tires. I was a BFG contract driver for a number of years for full disclosure.

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I have autocrossed and road raced for many years (since the early 70's). Almost all in Mustangs of one sort or another. I have also had experience with a number of different track tires. I think you should really only consider the Hoosier A6/R6 (autocross/roadrace) if you are at the top levels of competitivenes or jsut have a really big tire budget. They don't last very long but are very fast. Forget any sort of street/track compromise, they are seneitive to the numer of heat cycles and would lose stickiness driving to work. They also have only two groves around the tire, so there is literally no tread. Hope that the cop that stops you understands the tire rules, or else you will get a ticket for bald tires... even though they are almost new.

 

The next step down is the Kumho V710. They still have virtually no tread, almost the same as the Hoosiers. But they do last longer, but the true hotshoes tend to think they give up just a little in lap time to Hoosiers. They are less expensive than the Hoosier, but pretty much in the same league performance wise. These two are the top of the DOT R-compound game and nothing else is really close now.

 

The Avons are Hoosier clones, they look like they came out of the same mold, so I consider them the same tire.

 

The Toyo RA-1 is a step down and had real tire tread and could actually be used for limited mileage on the street. They are adtually pretty durable and not that expensive. But there are limited tire sizes in 18".

 

The Falken Azenis RT615 is a reasonable choice for a street/track tire. They are decent track tires (not as good as any R compound) but they can actually get reasonable mileage on the street. They pass the SCCA Solo II rules for a true street tire for the ST classes if you happen to be so inclined. I had a set on my RX7 for about 2 years with an occasional track event or autocross for good measure. Don't expect the same from a Shelby used as a daily driver.

 

BF Goodrich R1 has come back to life in the track world after being more or less absent for a number of years. They are making a good comeback and worth considering. I think BFG has the best quality of any of the track tires. I was a BFG contract driver for a number of years for full disclosure.

 

I agree with everything you said here except one thing. I have used avons and, in my opinion, they flat suck! They are cheap, they do look like the hoosiers but they dont perform near as well. The new Toyo 888 is a good choice too and I have heard good things about hankooks although I have not used them myself.

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At a Mazda Club event (I also have an RX7) they had Hankooks mounted on common Mazda wheels that you could take for a test session. I was impressed. They had their full R-compound tires and their Falken Azenis competitor and everyone was pleased with the ones they tried. I had to be impressed by that promotion technique of giving club guys a chance to test drive them. I have wanted to buy a set just because of their generosity that day. I will probably get those for my next tires on the RX7. I use Hoosier slicks on the Shelby these days.

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At a Mazda Club event (I also have an RX7) they had Hankooks mounted on common Mazda wheels that you could take for a test session. I was impressed. They had their full R-compound tires and their Falken Azenis competitor and everyone was pleased with the ones they tried. I had to be impressed by that promotion technique of giving club guys a chance to test drive them. I have wanted to buy a set just because of their generosity that day. I will probably get those for my next tires on the RX7. I use Hoosier slicks on the Shelby these days.

 

 

I have read that the Hankooks are better for the lighter cars as opposed to a Mustang, that makes sense, although, I just has a friend set fast speed in a non racecar at Road America, 2:27 on hankooks on his Cobra R

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With the Griggs setup I'm getting, I'll be running Hoosier 315/30/18 all the way around. I can't wait to get this setup installed and back on the track. It should turn the GT500 into a completely different beast.

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For those of you running wider than 255's up front, what wheel specs are you using?

 

I'd like to run the Nitto NT01 275/40-18 all the way around, as I did on my 03 SVT Cobra, and just want to make sure they'll fit okay in the front. Would the GT500 wheels work fine for this setup?

 

Thanks,

Pete

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For those of you running wider than 255's up front, what wheel specs are you using?

 

I'd like to run the Nitto NT01 275/40-18 all the way around, as I did on my 03 SVT Cobra, and just want to make sure they'll fit okay in the front. Would the GT500 wheels work fine for this setup?

 

 

 

 

Pete the 500 wheels will work just fine. I use my 500 wheels and the 285 F1s all around. They work great dry or wet.

 

John

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