ff500 Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Ill repost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 You are contradicting your self and i will point out where at least from my side as a physician. Why do think i was approved for coming over to the states? first am not less paid nor with less benefits than any internal medicine doctor started and finished training here in US. second ....the cost of educating your kids or mine since they are born here to become a doctor is 5 digit number. Why to fill the spots with doctors brought from over seas and not reduce the cost of education. Who's fault to cost you son or daughter 5 digit number to become a doctor so not many people will be able to afford it and eventually they will bring some one who finished education from abroad and save pennies. It is not my fault nor the patient's fault nor your kids or mine. It is the greedy system ...what ever saves a penny regardless of the cost it will be done. an inherited flaw in the system that shows the signs of fatigue and weakness later in life...and that is what you are witnessing now. I came here to have better life ...? yes and am giving in return my best years...so do not pull that line on me because we are even. You are missing my point completely. What I am saying has nothing to do with you personally. I have no problem with people coming here because they want a better life. This entire coutry is made up of people that came from another country with the exception of American Indians. I have heard a lot of foreign doctors say in their country health care is provided by their government and they as doctors are only paid a salary. They don't have the freedom to make the kind of money doctors here do. What I am saying is that your profession as a doctor having that freedom to make the kind of money you can make here is in jeopardy. When our government takes over health care where our health care is provided by our government instead of individually where the people are responsible for paying their own health care, then your freedom to make whatever amount of money you can make will become limited and regulated by our government the same as it is in other countries where the government provides health care. Do you want to see that happen? The more poor people we have here the more those people expect our government to provide for them. The more our government gets involved the less freedoms we end up with. We don't need more government. We need less government. But if we wipe out our middle class that is going to create a lot more government. If we don't create a level playing field so our American companies can compete fairly with foreign companies doing business here then our American companies are going to get wiped out leaving everything owned by foreign companies, creating a lot more poverty because of much lower paying jobs with a lot less benefits and a lot less retirements. This will create more government programs to support the poor and eventually we will all become slaves to our government. Our government is destroying our own businesses here by not insuring a level playing field by allowing foreign companies to do business here at much lower costs then they will allow our own companies here to do. Our companies here can NOT compete with that and remain profitable. If we assessed an import tax on foreign products that are imported here to where everything is competitively priced where the cost to do business here is competitive for both American and foreign companies then American companies could compete on a level playing field. If we forced foreign companies to pay the same union pay scales here and provide the same benefits and retirement plans as the American companies have to pay then that would create a level playing field. If we gave the same tax incentives to American compaines as we do to foreign companies then that would create a level playing field. If we made foriegn companies pay the same income tax here to our government on money made here as our American companies have to pay that would create a level playing field. They say GM has to take $6,000 on every single vehicle sold just to pay for retirement of their employees compared to only $2,000 Toyota pays. Now how in the world do you expect GM to compete with Toyota with a $4,000 per vehicle difference just in retirement cost alone??? And that is just for retirement expenses. Meanwhile Toyota gets to import cars here that they can build a lot cheaper in Japan, they get huge tax advantages, they get to build plants here and pay a lot less labor, a lot less benefits, a lot less retirement by replacing pensions with a 401k. So how can American manufacturers afford to build everything here and not be forced to outsource and remain competitive??? We are bankrupting our own country while making other countries wealthy. In the end this will all come crashing down and it will affect every single American and every single business in this country and the only ones we will have to blame for this is ourselves! WE allowed it to happen. You say you came here spent your money and got your education and have been giving back. Thats great! So what about all those employees that gave back for twenty some years that are coming up for retiremnent and being forced to take buyouts and losing their retirements? Did they not give back by putting in their twenty some years being loyal to their employers??? You see how those people are getting screwed over? The point is this is exactly what is going to happen to you, me and every other person living in this country if we don't do something to put a stop to this. Our government sure isn't going to do anything about it! They don't want to do anything about it. They want more control over the people. So do you have any solutions how to prevent this from happening??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 An interesting article. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080812/ap_on_...GO6Uy9Rjq4DW7oF WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 You are missing my point completely. What I am saying has nothing to do with you personally. I have no problem with people coming here because they want a better life. This entire coutry is made up of people that came from another country with the exception of American Indians. I have heard a lot of foreign doctors say in their country health care is provided by their government and they as doctors are only paid a salary. They don't have the freedom to make the kind of money doctors here do. What I am saying is that your profession as a doctor having that freedom to make the kind of money you can make here is in jeopardy. When our government takes over health care where our health care is provided by our government instead of individually where the people are responsible for paying their own health care, then your freedom to make whatever amount of money you can make will become limited and regulated by our government the same as it is in other countries where the government provides health care. Do you want to see that happen? The more poor people we have here the more those people expect our government to provide for them. The more our government gets involved the less freedoms we end up with. We don't need more government. We need less government. But if we wipe out our middle class that is going to create a lot more government. If we don't create a level playing field so our American companies can compete fairly with foreign companies doing business here then our American companies are going to get wiped out leaving everything owned by foreign companies, creating a lot more poverty because of much lower paying jobs with a lot less benefits and a lot less retirements. This will create more government programs to support the poor and eventually we will all become slaves to our government. Our government is destroying our own businesses here by not insuring a level playing field by allowing foreign companies to do business here at much lower costs then they will allow our own companies here to do. Our companies here can NOT compete with that and remain profitable. If we assessed an import tax on foreign products that are imported here to where everything is competitively priced where the cost to do business here is competitive for both American and foreign companies then American companies could compete on a level playing field. If we forced foreign companies to pay the same union pay scales here and provide the same benefits and retirement plans as the American companies have to pay then that would create a level playing field. If we gave the same tax incentives to American compaines as we do to foreign companies then that would create a level playing field. If we made foriegn companies pay the same income tax here to our government on money made here as our American companies have to pay that would create a level playing field. They say GM has to take $6,000 on every single vehicle sold just to pay for retirement of their employees compared to only $2,000 Toyota pays. Now how in the world do you expect GM to compete with Toyota with a $4,000 per vehicle difference just in retirement cost alone??? And that is just for retirement expenses. Meanwhile Toyota gets to import cars here that they can build a lot cheaper in Japan, they get huge tax advantages, they get to build plants here and pay a lot less labor, a lot less benefits, a lot less retirement by replacing pensions with a 401k. So how can American manufacturers afford to build everything here and not be forced to outsource and remain competitive??? We are bankrupting our own country while making other countries wealthy. In the end this will all come crashing down and it will affect every single American and every single business in this country and the only ones we will have to blame for this is ourselves! WE allowed it to happen. You say you came here spent your money and got your education and have been giving back. Thats great! So what about all those employees that gave back for twenty some years that are coming up for retiremnent and being forced to take buyouts and losing their retirements? Did they not give back by putting in their twenty some years being loyal to their employers??? You see how those people are getting screwed over? The point is this is exactly what is going to happen to you, me and every other person living in this country if we don't do something to put a stop to this. Our government sure isn't going to do anything about it! They don't want to do anything about it. They want more control over the people. So do you have any solutions how to prevent this from happening??? My dear shelbydude....you are missing my point. let me rephrase........ If it was not for the greedy system, the education cost should be much lower....your kids and average American kids can afford being a doctor....i should not be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 My dear shelbydude....you are missing my point. let me rephrase........ If it was not for the greedy system, the education cost should be much lower....your kids and average American kids can afford being a doctor....i should not be here. It's OK. That will change soon. After everything is controlled by our government education will be provided for them. College professors will be paid a lot less as they will be paid by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 It's OK. That will change soon. After everything is controlled by our government education will be provided for them. College professors will be paid a lot less as they will be paid by the government. I will be concerned more about my kids education than the professors wage....!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I will be concerned more about my kids education than the professors wage....!! Yes, they will need good educations to get that government paying job. Although we may have a problem with getting good teachers after the government takes over education and pays a lot less for teachers. Oh well, at least the teachers won't have to pay for all that education to get their teaching degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Yes, they will need good educations to get that government paying job. Although we may have a problem with getting good teachers after the government takes over education and pays a lot less for teachers. Oh well, at least the teachers won't have to pay for all that education to get their teaching degrees. Lol....false argument.... My education was free...and i proved my self here in the states with someone who is still paying the education loan. Eduction gives you the keys....its up to you to open the doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Lol....false argument.... My education was free...and i proved my self here in the states with someone who is still paying the education loan. Eduction gives you the keys....its up to you to open the doors. Foreign benefits are great, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Foreign benefits are great, aren't they? That is the BS am talking about...my years and youth are greater...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 That is the BS am talking about...my years and youth are greater...!! Greater than what? Is yours any greater than anyone elses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Lol....false argument.... My education was free...and i proved my self here in the states with someone who is still paying the education loan. Eduction gives you the keys....its up to you to open the doors. How did you get your education for free? Who is still paying for the loan and why are they paying for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Greater than what? Is yours any greater than anyone elses? I meant that you are seeing the benefit but turning a blind eye to the price paid. Let me explain it to you so you do not twist what i said: The foreign benefit you referred to ...Is paid for with my years and youth and to me that is more important than the money am getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 How did you get your education for free? Who is still paying for the loan and why are they paying for it? Where i came from our education is free....from elementary school to collage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I meant that you are seeing the benefit but turning a blind eye to the price paid. Let me explain it to you so you do not twist what i said: The foreign benefit you referred to ...Is paid for with my years and youth and to me that is more important than the money am getting. How exactly did you pay for that with your years and youth? How is it that your years and youth entitle you to a free education that someone else is paying for that you get to now make a good living from over someone else that has to pay with their years and youth AND still have to pay for their own education and go into major debt just to get the loans to pay for that? How did you get a free education and who is now paying for that and why are they paying for it? How do we go about getting the same deal for our kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Where i came from our education is free....from elementary school to collage. If it is free then who is still paying for it? Why would their be any loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RStangsOC Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 If it is free then who is still paying for it? Why would their be any loans? I assume (and you know what they say about the word assume) that he didnt receive his education here in the U.S. He got his education overseas in his home country. Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 If it is free then who is still paying for it? Why would their be any loans? Government no loans Seriously that how it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I assume (and you know what they say about the word assume) that he didnt receive his education here in the U.S. He got his education overseas in his home country. Maybe? That is what it sounds like. But he also said earlier someone else was paying for the loans. So I'm curious what loans that would be if his country provides the free education and why someone else would have to pay for that? I just want to make sure I'm understanding all this correctly so I don't take anything out of context or misunderstand something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 How exactly did you pay for that with your years and youth? How is it that your years and youth entitle you to a free education that someone else is paying for that you get to now make a good living from over someone else that has to pay with their years and youth AND still have to pay for their own education and go into major debt just to get the loans to pay for that? How did you get a free education and who is now paying for that and why are they paying for it? How do we go about getting the same deal for our kids? you need to know a little more about outside the boundaries of US. I will explain before you jump to conclusions. I serve few years as a doctor in my country as a compensation for my free education. so i did pay for my free education which i like and no regrets there. as far as here in us... i give US my working years for the financial benefits, my years and time to me is more expensive that the benefits...but fair mutual agreement. Did you get it...or explain again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RStangsOC Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 That is what it sounds like. But he also said earlier someone else was paying for the loans. So I'm curious what loans that would be if his country provides the free education and why someone else would have to pay for that? I just want to make sure I'm understanding all this correctly so I don't take anything out of context or misunderstand something here. Well, I sure HOPE thats what it is - cause if its OUR Government that paid for the education, I would be one pissed puppy I had to pay for my degree, and will probably have to pay for my 3 daughter's degrees also (cause its for sure nobody else will do that for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Government no loans Seriously that how it is... So what would happen if everyone there got their free education then they all leave the country to go somewhere else to make a better like for themselves? Could that government continue to provide free education to everyone? How would they pay for it if everyone kept leaving after they got their education? Sounds like the same type of problem I have been talking about here! Here we buy foreign products because it is CHEAPER and leaves extra money in our pockets to spend on something else making a better life for ourselves while our companies here go broke because they can't fairly compete with the lower cost the foreign companies can produce the same products for. In your case, you get a free education to become a doctor and instead of providing good health care to the people in your country that paid for your free education you choose to come here leaving your country after getting your free education because you can make better money here and have a better life here. Does that about sum things up correctly??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff500 Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 US Citizen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RStangsOC Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 US Citizen ? Just curious as to what difference that makes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 In your case, you get a free education to become a doctor and instead of providing good health care to the people in your country that paid for your free education you choose to come here leaving your country after getting your free education because you can make better money here and have a better life here. Your rushing to make a POINT is making you miss reading.....read my post #171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 you need to know a little more about outside the boundaries of US. I will explain before you jump to conclusions. I serve few years as a doctor in my country as a compensation for my free education. so i did pay for my free education which i like and no regrets there. as far as here in us... i give US my working years for the financial benefits, my years and time to me is more expensive that the benefits...but fair mutual agreement. Did you get it...or explain again? OK, so what makes YOUR years and service here in exchange for the services you provide anyone more valuable than anyone elses years and services they provided in exchange for the work they did???? The amount of money you get paid is fair but mutual, but the amount of money a union worker gets paid is to much and unfair??? What makes an hour of your time taken from your life any more vauable than hour of someone elses time taken from their life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Your rushing to make a POINT is making you miss reading.....read my post #171 So a FEW years serves as full compensation for a full college education???? What is the cost of a full college education??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 you need to know a little more about outside the boundaries of US. I will explain before you jump to conclusions. I serve few years as a doctor in my country as a compensation for my free education. so i did pay for my free education which i like and no regrets there. as far as here in us... i give US my working years for the financial benefits, my years and time to me is more expensive that the benefits...but fair mutual agreement. Did you get it...or explain again? So would our kids be allowed to move to your country and a get a free college education, then serve a FEW years doing whatever they got their education in so they can move back here and make a better life for themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 So would our kids be allowed to move to your country and a get a free college education, then serve a FEW years doing whatever they got their education in so they can move back here and make a better life for themselves? If it was not for the political instability i would say feel free send them over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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