How Likely Is Bankruptcy For Big Three?

[ShelbyDude]

Your rushing to make a POINT is making you miss reading.....read my post #171

 

 

Nah....that isn't much different than say....someone who works for a company here, they make their good money working for them, then they take their money they made from that company and turn around and spend that money buying foreign products made by a foreign company because they are cheaper than what they can buy the same products they were just paid to make at their own company.

 

After all, they paid back that company by giving them their time and life for the work they did for them.

 

[sharabi]

But your logic is twisted....

 

It makes more sense to get a lower educational cost....(i think if my poor country could afford free education US should pay students to get education) than sending your kids abroad.

[ff500]

Just curious as to what difference that makes?

 

None, just curious.

[ShelbyDude]

If it was not for the political instability i would say feel free send them over.

 

 

Don't we have political instability here as well?

[ShelbyDude]

But your logic is twisted....

 

It makes more sense to get a lower educational cost....(i think if my poor country could afford free education US should pay students to get education) than sending your kids abroad.

 

 

But that is the whole problem. We have a &%$# up government! And the more they get involved the more they %&$# everything up!

 

See? If you come from a foreign country you get all the breaks. You get to import your products here and sell them for a lot less than we can produce them here for. You get to get big tax incentives to build your plants here. You get to hire American workers for much lower wages. You get to provide them with less benefits. You get to provide them with less retirement benefits.

 

What a GREAT country this is!!! Yes???

[ShelbyDude]

Sharabi,

 

WHEN our government takes over health care in this country and you can no longer be free to charge whatever you feel is right in exchange for your services and all doctors are forced to basically become employees paid by the government, how are you going to feel about that?

 

So when our government says....Sharabi....your salary will be $60K year now....you will be paid by us instead of being able to charge people directly. There is no more health insurance. We the government are paying for everything. The good news is since the government is taking over the health care now you won't have to pay for malpractice insurance. We will provide everything you need. You will be exempt from lawsuits now that you are a government employee. You will have office hours from 9 - 5 Monday - Friday. You will get two weeks paid vacation per year. We will provide you with a pension after 30 years of service. You will get cost of living pay increases every year based on the consumer price index. In exchange you will recieve a generous salary of $60k per year and you will file and pay income tax on that.

 

Will you not have a problem with that? Will you stay here and continue to be a doctor here?

 

Oh.....then meanwhile you can listen to everyone say things like.....well if doctors didn't price gouge everyone charging outrageous fees this would never have happened! Doctors and hostpitals should have been more competitive and charged more reasonable fees to everyone. And lets face it....a lot of countries have been providing health care for their people! It's a blobal economy so just accept it! That's the way it is now!

 

[sharabi]

But that is the whole problem. We have a &%$# up government! And the more they get involved the more they %&$# everything up!

 

See? If you come from a foreign country you get all the breaks. You get to import your products here and sell them for a lot less than we can produce them here for. You get to get big tax incentives to build your plants here. You get to hire American workers for much lower wages. You get to provide them with less benefits. You get to provide them with less retirement benefits.

 

What a GREAT country this is!!! Yes???

 

 

Please open your mind and heart to me.

 

This country is great ....no one said otherwise....but there are major flaws that could be corrected if you make it on the top priority of the list.

 

To me one major priority is Education.

 

It should be accessible and no child should be left uneducated.

 

That is how you build...and from my experience here and abroad...education is not allowed to the average people.

 

Even if it would eliminate the reason for me being here i care about this country enough to say what i said.

 

So if educating your child and him or her being a doctor won't cost you your home and will eliminate my coming over to the states ..then it should be done ...!!

[Rachane]

I finally know who I'm voting for in November!! ..... ShelbyDude for President! :elefant:

I'll need to see him in a bikini first - until then I'm still voting for Paris.

 

Michael

[sharabi]

One more thing....even if making money is good and no complaints there but no money will compensate what we do...ask any physician, nurse , paramedic, ....we do what we do because we love it....money making is a byproduct...!!

[ShelbyDude]

Please open your mind and heart to me.

 

This country is great ....no one said otherwise....but there are major flaws that could be corrected if you make it on the top priority of the list.

 

To me one major priority is Education.

 

It should be accessible and no child should be left uneducated.

 

That is how you build...and from my experience here and abroad...education is not allowed to the average people.

 

Even if it would eliminate the reason for me being here i care about this country enough to say what i said.

 

So if educating your child and him or her being a doctor won't cost you your home and will eliminate my coming over to the states ..then it should be done ...!!

 

 

Understand something. I have no problem with you coming here and making a better life for yourself. As I said before...with the exception of the American Indians, this entire country is made up of people that all came from foreign lands. They all were allowed to come here freely and make a better life for themselves. Why should you or anyone else be treated any different?

[sharabi]

Why should you or anyone else be treated any different?

 

 

Where did you get that from my posts?

[sharabi]

Darn it if i care about someone it is your kids and any ones kids...including mine.

[ff500]

shipoopie

[ShelbyDude]

One more thing....even if making money is good and no complaints there but no money will compensate what we do...ask any physician, nurse , paramedic, ....we do what we do because we love it....money making is a byproduct...!!

 

 

Don't say ask any physician. There are a lot of them that are in it for the money! To some of them their patients are just a number with a dollar sign attached to them! I've heard some brag about it. Some surgeons that are charging $25K - $500k a whack for operations that brag how they pump out 3 - 4 day at $250K + per whack!

 

While I know there are good doctors that do care there are also bad doctors that don't care about anything but the money! There are some scum ball doctors out there just like there are scum ball car salesman. Every single profession has them!

[ShelbyDude]

Where did you get that from my posts?

 

 

Even if it would eliminate the reason for me being here i care about this country enough to say what i said.

 

So if educating your child and him or her being a doctor won't cost you your home and will eliminate my coming over to the states ..then it should be done ...!!

[sharabi]

Even if it would eliminate the reason for me being here i care about this country enough to say what i said.

 

So if educating your child and him or her being a doctor won't cost you your home and will eliminate my coming over to the states ..then it should be done ...!!

 

 

Your logic is really twisted....

 

If i said i give up the reason for me being here for the sake of your kid being educated and not paying a fortune ...whats wrong with that

 

Oh my god

 

let me rephrase.

 

I am ok with educational cost being down enough for kids here in US to get their education without their parents losing their homes.

 

I am ok with the above mentioned even if that will be at the cost of bringing foreign doctors including me.

 

Can i be more clear than that? do i still need to explain ?

[08SGT1977]

Does anybody remember W.T. Grant?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._T._Grant

 

One of the largest and most successful merchandise stores in the US turned out to be one of the largest bankruptcies in American history. Bankruptcy of even the most iconic American brands is possible if the long term financials are not managed correctly.

[shaker281]

So if educating your child and him or her being a doctor won't cost you your home and will eliminate my coming over to the states ..then it should be done ...!!

 

Now those are very wise words! I have raised my son with the belief that if he wants it bad enough I will pay for him to get a medical education. I have encouraged him to follow through on my offer. It will cost me dearly, but I will make it happen if I can.

 

However, I know few people who would encourage their child to pursue a medical degree because they know they would have to make financial sacrifices. So, in very subtle ways they may even discourage (or fail to nurture) such a pursuit.

[shaker281]

Don't say ask any physician. There are a lot of them that are in it for the money! To some of them their patients are just a number with a dollar sign attached to them! I've heard some brag about it. Some surgeons that are charging $25K - $500k a whack for operations that brag how they pump out 3 - 4 day at $250K + per whack!

 

While I know there are good doctors that do care there are also bad doctors that don't care about anything but the money! There are some scum ball doctors out there just like there are scum ball car salesman. Every single profession has them!

 

As opposed to car salesmen who are into it for humanitarian reasons?

 

Seriously man, I think the pressure of what the economy is doing to the auto industry is putting you on"tilt".

 

You have no reason to pay any attention to anything I write, but my advice to you would be to accept the fact that the world is constantly changing and, as much as it may upset your world, you need to learn to roll with the punches.

 

Take it from someone who has already been through an industry in crisis (telecom). No offense.

[Glenracer]

As opposed to car salesmen who are into it for humanitarian reasons?

 

Seriously man, I think the pressure of what the economy is doing to the auto industry is putting you on"tilt".

 

You have no reason to pay any attention to anything I write, but my advice to you would be to accept the fact that the world is constantly changing and, as much as it may upset your world, you need to learn to roll with the punches.

 

Take it from someone who has already been through an industry in crisis (telecom). No offense.

I understand a lot of what ShelbyDude is saying....And I am with him that having a level playing field for everyone in the car making business is not asking too much. We as Americans have always taken pride in this equal opportunity for all concept and it has worked quite well throughout our history. I also understand this global economy issue as well. I am not crazy about who the manipulators of it is but it is here to stay. The bottom line is this as far as I am concerned...if all things being equal in the auto manufacturing or any manufacturing in the US as far as taxes, unions etc. then everyone has the same opportunities to succeed and or fail based on the marketability of that product. And the United States has benifitted greatly because of all the good things people from other societies and cultures have contributed. It is what makes us as Americans. No one else can put a claim on that on the scale that is has occured. I wont say anything else about this but by golly it sure has stirred passion among us and that is good because I respect a passioned plea for an opinion regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

[mach 1 1970]

But that is the whole problem. We have a &%$# up government! And the more they get involved the more they %&$# everything up!

 

See? If you come from a foreign country you get all the breaks. You get to import your products here and sell them for a lot less than we can produce them here for. You get to get big tax incentives to build your plants here. You get to hire American workers for much lower wages. You get to provide them with less benefits. You get to provide them with less retirement benefits.

 

What a GREAT country this is!!! Yes???

 

ShelbyDude is right , it's not a level playing field for the american auto co's. When they went to King Bush he would not see them. Nobody is in charge of our nation,that's the problem. If the Big three owned an oil co., they might get some attention from washington. Lee Ioccoa (former CEO of Chysler) has said the leadership of this country is a major problem. The current admin. could care less about the American auto co's.

[ShelbyDude]

As opposed to car salesmen who are into it for humanitarian reasons?

 

Seriously man, I think the pressure of what the economy is doing to the auto industry is putting you on"tilt".

 

You have no reason to pay any attention to anything I write, but my advice to you would be to accept the fact that the world is constantly changing and, as much as it may upset your world, you need to learn to roll with the punches.

 

Take it from someone who has already been through an industry in crisis (telecom). No offense.

 

 

Does it make a difference if a doctor is in it just for the money VS some car salesman being in it just for the money? Does having a title of being a doctor make them special or better than anyone else?

 

It isn't the auto industry. It is everything wrong in this country.

 

And the auto industry may be hurting and lots of dealers may be hurting, but with everything going on it has not affected me personally. I've been doing this for only 6 years and my income has gone up every year since. So with as bad as thing are in this industry and every other industry in this country, so far I have earned more this year than the past 5 years of being in this business. So this has nothing to do with me on a personal level by being in the auto business.

 

To just accept things as they are is just to bury your head in the sand. This is exactly why this country is in the mess it is in today. Everyone is to busy to take notice and they have the attitude there is nothing they can do about it, so just accept it! BS!!! That is exactly what our government wants us to do! People need to WAKE UP because there are things YOU can do about it! As an individual you can't change anything, but as a people together we can move mountains!

[DubbsFaris]

I think we as a nation have this problem;

 

We beleive fairness and happiness are rights, protected by ancient parchment, and echoed in the desires and will of our founding fathers.

 

In reality, its' not happiness...but the PURSUIT of happiness...

 

We discussed this at length in my time in law school, kind of a running joke...

 

This fairness in competition is what troubles me though...there are no guarantees of fairness in your life, nor in your country, nor in the way you do business....sure there are fair business practices that we try to abide by, but aren't the companies that profit the ones that find a way around this or that? The more laws established to create this level playing field only provide weapons to those caniving enough to figure a way around them. It is only through open markets and what I call "pure" competitive arenas that business can be most successful for us all. The 'only the strongest survive model' of the wild where no rules reign is what truly allow anyone with a better product or service to step forward and succeed.

 

For all of my life, I have heard how import/export disparities will cripple our economy and country, and yet until the last say 2 years we have got nothing but stronger...every so often our economy contracts, and everyone jumps on the 'world coming to an end' bandwagon. We are a people in need of everything...and that wont change. All the jobs lost to foreign markets, but yet our jobless rate has never spiked...we move on and find another career. We should feel lucky that we can do that, we should feel lucky and blessed that we arent TOLD what we have to do for all of our lives.

 

Road construction in my area is at an all-time low in jobs being released to us contractors, and my company is very close to being out of work for the first time since its inception, but I am a reasonable man, and I know that every day, there are only more cars, and need of more roads and maintaining the ones we already have. Sure, the money isnt there right now, but it will be. There are good times and bad, and it cant be all good all the time. But we are a spoiled and selfish society and economy that feels it deserves the lion share of the bounty. Look to the East my friends, for we are about to become the setting sun in a world economy, not because of anything we do, but because China has more land, more people, and more room to expand. Don't look at this as a negative....Find the opportunities that will be provided in the change...be strong and steadfast in your convictions, but be flexible enough to change the way you do business.

 

Ford and GM may be in trouble, but life will go on, and a void left by one, will simply be filled by a new more nimble provider. If this is the end of Ford or any other car company, I say farewell, and thanks for all the fish! Cant wait for what the new company X has for us next!

 

Wow- am I bored at work or what?

[mr4teth]

To just accept things as they are is just to bury your head in the sand. This is exactly why this country is in the mess it is in today. Everyone is to busy to take notice and they have the attitude there is nothing they can do about it, so just accept it! BS!!! That is exactly what our government wants us to do! People need to WAKE UP because there are things YOU can do about it! As an individual you can't change anything, but as a people together we can move mountains!

 

Not to throw gas on the fire but check this out ..... The Second American Revolution!

 

 

*Edit: Fix Link

[LuisA]

SD,

I have read MOST of your posts in this thread.......I can feel your passion, but, with all due respect:

 

1) Some of your comments are contardictory to each other.

2) You keep reffering to the 70's......wake up!!!!! It's 2008!!!!!

 

LISTEN to what other are trying to tell you.

 

Ford American? Who knows?

 

Toyoat Japanese? Who knows?

 

Consumers wrong because they buy brand X over brand Y? Absolutely not!!!! Consumers (customers) are always right, they are the king of the jungle and those companies who pay attention to them and adapt will survive. Those companies who blame consumers for being wrong will die!

 

It is a global economy. Period!

 

Consumers foolish for buying cheap products? I don't think so. If consumers buy cheap products in large quantities, then that cheap product is no longer such and becomes a BEST value product. That's what happened with Toyota & Nissan.......it is happening with Hyundai and KIA.......are we going to let it happen to Chinese cars as well?

 

I bought a GT500 beacuse it inspired me to do so like no other car. Same reason I own a $35K Harley Davidson. But, If I was to buy any other vehicle, it will not be a Ford, nor a GM and much less a Chrysler! Is that anti-American? I don't think so. I work hard for my money, I pay my share of income tax and other taxes and I figure I can spend what's left it any way I wish. Besides, if Ford or GM or Chrysler was to offer me the same than brand X even for 10% more, I woudl buy their product. After all, I did pay $53k for a Ford Mustang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShelbyDude]

The more laws established to create this level playing field only provide weapons to those caniving enough to figure a way around them.

 

 

We don't need more laws!

 

We need our government to get out from under controlling everyone!

 

Our government depends on taxing everything to death. So why are they not taxing all these imports? Rather than raising taxes on the working class which are the the ones paying most of the income tax collected in this country, why not tax the imports which in turn helps to create a level playing field for companies here and reduce taxes on the working class which allows them to have more spendable income to put back into the economy.

 

The problem is our government giving the foreign companies a free ride while sticking it to the American companies. We don't need laws to change that. We need our government to get their heads out of their asses and do what's right for the people. Not what they need for their own personal political gains!

[DubbsFaris]

Not to throw gas on the fire but check this out ..... The Second American Revolution!

 

 

*Edit: Fix Link

 

Yikes- mein fuhrer! Lets just get rid of everyone that doesn't talk, look, or act just like we are supposed to while we are at it!

And his underlying theme being- common sense. Just as long as he addresses us looking like he just left a costume party...

 

I know- it envokes imagery of the revolution, but if I throw on parachute pants and a members only jacket, it doesn't mean Im a Reagan- ite.

[ShelbyDude]

SD,

I have read MOST of your posts in this thread.......I can feel your passion, but, with all due respect:

 

1) Some of your comments are contardictory to each other.

2) You keep reffering to the 70's......wake up!!!!! It's 2008!!!!!

 

LISTEN to what other are trying to tell you.

 

Ford American? Who knows?

 

Toyoat Japanese? Who knows?

 

Consumers wrong because they buy brand X over brand Y? Absolutely not!!!! Consumers (customers) are always right, they are the king of the jungle and those companies who pay attention to them and adapt will survive. Those companies who blame consumers for being wrong will die!

 

It is a global economy. Period!

 

Consumers foolish for buying cheap products? I don't think so. If consumers buy cheap products in large quantities, then that cheap product is no longer such and becomes a BEST value product. That's what happened with Toyota & Nissan.......it is happening with Hyundai and KIA.......are we going to let it happen to Chinese cars as well?

 

I bought a GT500 beacuse it inspired me to do so like no other car. Same reason I own a $35K Harley Davidson. But, If I was to buy any other vehicle, it will not be a Ford, nor a GM and much less a Chrysler! Is that anti-American? I don't think so. I work hard for my money, I pay my share of income tax and other taxes and I figure I can spend what's left it any way I wish. Besides, if Ford or GM or Chrysler was to offer me the same than brand X even for 10% more, I woudl buy their product. After all, I did pay $53k for a Ford Mustang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Sorry, but you are missing the entire point.

 

Enjoy buying whatever you want while you can. Because the POINT on all this is that your days of being able to do that are numbered! When the middle class is wiped out what will be left to support the income coming in that you make that allows you that luxury of being able to buy whatever you want?

[DubbsFaris]

The more laws established to create this level playing field only provide weapons to those caniving enough to figure a way around them.

 

 

We don't need more laws!

 

We need our government to get out from under controlling everyone!

 

Our government depends on taxing everything to death. So why are they not taxing all these imports? Rather than raising taxes on the working class which are the the ones paying most of the income tax collected in this country, why not tax the imports which in turn helps to create a level playing field for companies here and reduce taxes on the working class which allows them to have more spendable income to put back into the economy.

 

The problem is our government giving the foreign companies a free ride while sticking it to the American companies. We don't need laws to change that. We need our government to get their heads out of their asses and do what's right for the people. Not what they need for their own personal political gains!

 

 

I agree completely that we have too many laws....yup yup yup

 

This free ride thing though? American companies get away without paying taxes too!

Exxon/Mobil actually got money BACK from the government...not one penny taxed on a RECORD quarter profit!

 

The problem is, the foxes are running the hen house...

The government relies on small businesses and YOU to pay their bills....

But they get their big money for their campaigning and ((their pockets) shhh- secret) from lobbyists from all of those big companies, foriegn and domestic!

[LuisA]

Middle class being wiped out? I don't think so! Our standard of living today is MUCH better than 50 years ago!!!!! With milk at $6.00/gal, gas at $4.00/gal and ALL!!!

 

Middle class is here to stay!!!! I have FAITH in the American people!