Official TSB #08-16-4: Clutch Drag REPAIR RESULTS

[Grabber]

Yes sir, they did, and it's definately noticable too. MUCH smoother shifting in all gears, and even the throw from gear to gear seems better than before; much tighter/shorter.

 

NO MORE CHATTER TOO. I accidently let the revs drop too low on one of my take offs, and even then did not get any chatter.

 

Galpin Ford is right next to the freeway, and the on ramp in the direction I needed to go is quite long. When I throttled up and went through the gears (transmission under moderate/heavy load) all up shifts were still smooth.

 

Repair details:

 

1 Seal-Asy - oil

1 Flywheel Asy

1 Trans kit

1 Kit - clutch repair (clutch and pressure plate asy)

1 Master Cylinder Asy. Don't ask me. I guess they felt that it needed to be replaced again. I haven't had a chance to talk to the Service Writer or tech to find out why, but I will tomorrow.

2 (cans?) of Fluid - Brake.

 

Maybe you need to contact you-know-who and get his opinion about the master cylinders. We may have another future TSB about them. I only say that because I have now had two installed since I recieved the car, and I have to assume that the tech is discovering somesort of issue with them. Also because of the other TS members who are failing the "Hiss test" too.

 

But like I said, I'll call the dealer tomorrow and find out why they felt that the MC needed to be replaced.

 

There is no known problem with the MC in our cars. Trust me! Your dealer just did it to be safe, but it was not needed.

[08redgt500]

Well a week's gone by and I am now getting the TSB done. A Lynn, with the Executive Offices at Ford, called me Tues AM, but she didn't tell me just which Executive she worked for, and I didn't ask; you see I had guessed about 2-3 Sr. Exec emails, and hit 2 out of 3; I tried what I know are various standard corporate email addresses, such as last.first@ford.com, first.last@ford.com, jsmith@ford.com, etc., you get the idea, if they don't bounce, I know they get thru. Anyway, she was very pleasant and helpful; and suggested I pick another dealer for a 'second opinion', so I told her I would go to Century Ford in Mt, Airy, MD. I went today and spoke with the Service Director; we went for a drive and he acknowledged the 'shudder' in the clutch, from the warped fly-wheel oddly enough. When Lynn and I spoke on Tuesday, she must have immediately called the Service Director at Century, since within 15 minutes of hanging up the phone with her, he called me to setup the appt.; I was busy and did not have a chance to call him back until Weds. It went really well today, and they are going to do the full TSB!!! Parts on order. I was very thankful!! We'll see how the follow thru is, but I do suspect it will go well. This dealer has a good reputation, from what I've heard on the forum and from other folks... Once again I'm a happy GT500 owner. I am going to ask if I can see the new parts, and take photos while they do the work, not to document, just too see the masters at work on my car. If they're hesitant to the idea, I won't push it; but I would like to have it as part of the ongoing pictorial history of the car, and that's exactly how I'm going to position it with them.

 

Went up to the Ford Nationals this past weekend in Hagerstown, MD; no strip action, just went for the 'scenery'. Many, many nice Ford automobiles of all flavors, including a nice bunch of GT500s. There was also a '68 Shelby GT500 Red/White Stripes, in perfect condition! I have some photos, and will post later.

 

My first Ford National, and show; alot of fun!

[Grabber]

I like to hear goood news like this.

 

Congrats to you.

[gr8snkbite]

latest update on mine below. doesn't look as though it's getting done, unless i can prove otherwise.

 

http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showpost.p...mp;postcount=45

[Grabber]

latest update on mine below. doesn't look as though it's getting done, unless i can prove otherwise.

 

http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showpost.p...mp;postcount=45

 

I saw your post over on the other site. I am going to copy paste it here so others can read it with ease. Then I will tell you the difference.

 

YOUR POST

I got a call today from my dealer. They state that they (manager and master tech) called Ford and talked with several engineers. They gave them my part numbers from the 2nd gen install, and Ford told them i have the latest and greatest. Not so sure myself, and that's what i told them. The part numbers for the clutch assy's are different. I told them usually different p/n's means a change in design, as they questioned this also (so they say). I'm still skeptical. But this has been a great dealer, top notch and up front, which gives me no reason to question. But if Fred...you out there....could shed some light on what is exactly different between these two clutches, i'd appreciate it.

 

TSB Clutch: 7R3Z-7L596-A

My new clutch from 2nd gen install: 7R3Z-7B546-B

 

I do have the same flywheel as listed in the TSB.

 

New tranny install was done mid Jul, and parts were ordered about 6 wks prior. So not sure when the change of clutches actually occured.

 

I don't have hiss or chatter, but when driving in the city for some time, feel 1st, 2nd bumping slightly. Made sure the hyd were bled well. Good pedal travel

[Grabber]

The new clutch part number has a nickle hub in the center. The older clutch has an Iron hub.

 

The nickle hub is smoother and the nickle is less prone to corrosion over time.

 

Here is a photo of the old and new clutch. Look at the center.

 

[gr8snkbite]

Thx Rob, you da man :happy feet:

 

So basically there is no cause for concern, since the teflon lube "should" help prevent the corrosion, and since i never drive it in the rain. I did tell them that i'm keeping my eye (ear) on it, and they said, if i'm still experiencing issues, bring it in.

[GT500FLYBOY]

I had my tranny, clutch and flywheel replaced in June. I started having minor symptoms in the past few weeks. The usual - 1st to 2nd grind, grind into reverse, continued hissing with clutch fully depressed. It wasn't as bad as the first setup, so I thought it might be tolerable. I drove to a show on saturday and again on sunday with no problems. Then I get in the car to run an errand and I get nothing but grinding trying to get into reverse. I can't get it into any gear at all. It appears the clutch will not disengage. I had it towed in yesterday. They are performing the TSB work as of today. Should have it back by Friday.

 

I'm also looking to get the tranny kit rebuild done on my original tranny. Has anyone seen a pricing break down of all the individual parts? I've seen a total cost for parts and labor for the TSB, but not a break down. I'm interested in the tranny kit specifically. 7r3z-7c391-a

[1blackshelby]

Another TSB on it's way.

 

Thanks Grabber

[Grabber]

Another TSB on it's way.

 

Thanks Grabber

 

Mark,

 

I take it your meeting went well today !!! :happy feet:

[Grabber]

Thx Rob, you da man :happy feet:

 

So basically there is no cause for concern, since the teflon lube "should" help prevent the corrosion, and since i never drive it in the rain. I did tell them that i'm keeping my eye (ear) on it, and they said, if i'm still experiencing issues, bring it in.

 

Since you have the new flywheel and tranny in your car already, you should be fine. Just keep an eye on it.

[Grabber]

I had my tranny, clutch and flywheel replaced in June. I started having minor symptoms in the past few weeks. The usual - 1st to 2nd grind, grind into reverse, continued hissing with clutch fully depressed. It wasn't as bad as the first setup, so I thought it might be tolerable. I drove to a show on saturday and again on sunday with no problems. Then I get in the car to run an errand and I get nothing but grinding trying to get into reverse. I can't get it into any gear at all. It appears the clutch will not disengage. I had it towed in yesterday. They are performing the TSB work as of today. Should have it back by Friday.

 

Sounds like your warped flywheel took out your clutch.

[1blackshelby]

Yes sir, they said they would get the parts ordered imediately.

[Grabber]

Yes sir, they said they would get the parts ordered imediately.

 

Right on.

 

Funny how they changed their tune.

[m81mclaren]

Thanks to those who continue to update. I will consolodate the responses to the top tomorrow night when I have more than 2 minutes. Still waiting on my other parts call before I can get her looked at. I spent a good hour driving again Sunday. I pumped it again before starting and it passed the hiss test. Unfortunately I still have the high pedal, chatter when warm, stiffness getting into first and for the first time I had a heavy grind from first to second just around the corner from home. I will park it until it gets fixed properly. Clearly something is amiss as it warms up but I am stumped since these are HD parts and this is not rocket science. I'm really beginning to wonder if the TSB parts were not actually installed. I hope to engage the area rep for assistance when I bring it in to ensure things are being handled 100%. Worst case they have an exact duplicate of my car sitting in the showroom. maybe they will take a trade?!!!

[jmoore]

I have 08 GT500, 5500 miles, shifting is good , my question is the hiss sound when clutch engaged,,, is this normal????

[Grabber]

I have 08 GT500, 5500 miles, shifting is good , my question is the hiss sound when clutch engaged,,, is this normal????

 

 

YES

[GT500FLYBOY]

I have 08 GT500, 5500 miles, shifting is good , my question is the hiss sound when clutch engaged,,, is this normal????

 

What you said doesn't make sense.

 

You should hear a hissing sound when engaging or disengaging the clutch - when it's 'slipping'. You should not hear a hissing sound when the clutch is engaged or disengaged. You will know you have the problem when the clutch continues to hiss for a few seconds after you have fully depressed the clutch. This means the clutch is hanging up on the input shaft. This will over time prematurely wear out the clutch and warp the flywheel from overheating.

[Son of GT]

I have 08 GT500, 5500 miles, shifting is good , my question is the hiss sound when clutch engaged,,, is this normal????

Fully engaged? No, not normal. Hissing during engagement? Normal. But trust me, it's only a matter of time before your flywheel ends up destroying your clutch, and that will inturn hammer your syncros.

 

Take your car into a stop and go traffic jam for 15 to 30 minutes or so, then see how your clutch and shifting is. Heat is the clutch killer in this equasion, and regardless of what FoMoCo originally said that the clutch chatter is normal, that's a crock! CLUTCH CHATTER IS NOT NORMAL NOR IS IT GOOD FOR THE CLUTCH, and that's why the TSB for the flywheel was released.

 

Let me put it to everyone this way...in all the years and decades that manual transmissioned high performance cars have been around, even full race cars, has anyone ever heard that clutch chatter is normal in those applications? I haven't, not once.

 

Those few of us that have had the new TSB completed so far will tell you that the "normal" clutch chatter is now completely gone and that shifting through the gears is now like a hot knife through butter.

 

It wasn't like that before the TSB.

[Grabber]

Fully engaged? No, not normal. Hissing during engagement? Normal. But trust me, it's only a matter of time before your flywheel ends up destroying your clutch, and that will inturn hammer your syncros.

 

Take your car into a stop and go traffic jam for 15 to 30 minutes or so, then see how your clutch and shifting is. Heat is the clutch killer in this equasion, and regardless of what FoMoCo originally said that the clutch chatter is normal, that's a crock! CLUTCH CHATTER IS NOT NORMAL NOR IS IT GOOD FOR THE CLUTCH, and that's why the TSB for the flywheel was released.

 

Let me put it to everyone this way...in all the years and decades that manual transmissioned high performance cars have been around, even full race cars, has anyone ever heard that clutch chatter is normal in those applications? I haven't, not once.

 

Those few of us that have had the new TSB completed so far will tell you that the "normal" clutch chatter is now completely gone and that shifting through the gears is now like a hot knife through butter.

 

It wasn't like that before the TSB.

 

+10 :happy feet:

[GT500FLYBOY]

Here are some pics of the clutch and flywheel that's being removed. These were just insalled in June - I don't think I have 3000 miles on them. Checkout the bluing from overheating. And I'm not so sure they even lubed the shaft.

 

[GT500FLYBOY]

More pics.

 

[Grabber]

More pics.

 

 

Wow...those heat checking marks show how hot your flywheel was getting.

[GT500FLYBOY]

Wow...those heat checking marks show how hot your flywheel was getting.

 

What I don't get is - this is after just 3000 miles. Look at my first clutch/flywheel set below. They had 17000 on them before they were replaced - and they were driven much harder.

 

[RIRENTERGT500]

Droped the car off at the dealer this morning (7:30am) for full TSB work. Went back after work (4:00pm). Still working on input shaft and synchros. Car will not be ready till tomorrow. I will keep you all posted on the final results.

[shelby111]

How does the dealer make out financially when they do this TSB work under the warrantee? Is it good for them or do they get hurt?

[68fastback]

Fully engaged? No, not normal. Hissing during engagement? Normal. But trust me, it's only a matter of time before your flywheel ends up destroying your clutch, and that will inturn hammer your syncros.

 

Take your car into a stop and go traffic jam for 15 to 30 minutes or so, then see how your clutch and shifting is. Heat is the clutch killer in this equasion, and regardless of what FoMoCo originally said that the clutch chatter is normal, that's a crock! CLUTCH CHATTER IS NOT NORMAL NOR IS IT GOOD FOR THE CLUTCH, and that's why the TSB for the flywheel was released.

 

Let me put it to everyone this way...in all the years and decades that manual transmissioned high performance cars have been around, even full race cars, has anyone ever heard that clutch chatter is normal in those applications? I haven't, not once.

 

Those few of us that have had the new TSB completed so far will tell you that the "normal" clutch chatter is now completely gone and that shifting through the gears is now like a hot knife through butter.

 

It wasn't like that before the TSB.

 

E, I've never driven one, but have read that clutch chatter would be really bad in NASCAR cars and any clutch that uses smaller pads and high-friction ceramic material and shock-absorbing clutch springs. I read that the reason NASCAR cars use no shock-absorber springs (some/all? dunno) and NASCAR drivers, as a result, have to launch so hard (as in wheel spin when leaving the pits ...Indy cars too) to not stall the motor because it's just not feasible to ride-out the clutch at all with a ceramic clutch.

 

What I read is that full-on racing ceramic clutces are highly 'binary' -- virtually imposible to apply gradually. While the Ford clutch material is only very mildly ceramic (ceramic-metalic blend) to increase holding power, I was thinking that possibly that might be augmenting the problem, i.e. it's a bit 'grabby' and interacting with the shock-absorbing clutch springs when everything is not 'right' -- dunno.

 

When I was at SEMA last year I was looking at ceramic race clutches (like those used in NASCAR) and was struck with how tiny the ceramic pads are (much smaller and fewer than the GT500 clutch) ...some with only 3 -5 half-dollar-sized pads (not round tho) that easily take 850+ HP to the ground.

 

Not disagreeing with your assesment that clutches should not chatter and possibly the combo of compound, material/warpage and the rate of the shock-absorbing springs are such that if anything is not 'right' it chatters. Dunno -- just posing that as a theory based on how full-on ceramic clutches behave.

 

It's also possible that the big rubber doughnut at the diff-end of the UCA is also interacting with the shock-absorbing springs in the clutch when the flywheels gets warped such that it's augmenting the chatter -- dunno, but I can see that making sense If the clutch/flywheel is not warped and that doughnut is stiffer possibly no one would have chatter... Just some thoughts.

[RIRENTERGT500]

Just got my car back from the dealer. The clutch feels so much better. The clutch pedal is softer that butter, I still have some chatter during low rpm 1st and 2nd gear, but not even close to as much as before. The shifting is so much more smoother no more grinding. I am very happy with the end product.

[stargazer423]

Is this TSB supposed to be done to all GT500s? Mine doesn't exhibit any of the symptoms you guys list, but then I only have 150 miles on it. Will the dealer replace the items in the TSB knowing that sooner or later I will have a problem?

[Joe G]

Is this TSB supposed to be done to all GT500s? Mine doesn't exhibit any of the symptoms you guys list, but then I only have 150 miles on it. Will the dealer replace the items in the TSB knowing that sooner or later I will have a problem?

It's only if you have a problem.

 

No problem = no need to change anything.