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Alloy Dave Team Shelby Enthusiast

Alloy Dave

Posted
Posted
Just goes to show that people just have to compare everything. And, they continue to change the parameters to obtain the result they want.

 

Yeah but, yeah but...........................it's funny.

 

So Ruf, whose is bigger, yours or Poopy's :hysterical2::hysterical2::hysterical2:

Let's compare my Honda CRV to your blown Fairlane. :happy feet:

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Alloy Dave Team Shelby Enthusiast

Alloy Dave

Posted
Posted
Ruf,

 

I just opened up my 7th grader - David's report card.

 

Wow...8 A's and 1 B. :happy feet:

 

I am one proud papa. I had to post that. :yahoo:

 

GPA 3.86

One more A and he could have tied me. :happy feet:

 

Seriously though Rob....congrats to him. Studying will pay off in the long run.

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StangBanger Team Shelby Member

StangBanger

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It must have been the Bose system :happy feet:

 

Yes and the GT costs twice as much (since you guys as so concerned about price and comparing a cheaper car with a more expensive car). That's the point of the comparison you get almost as much performance from a Z06 as you do from a GT for half the price. Assuming you can find a GT for MSRP, which I doubt you can.

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StangBanger Team Shelby Member

StangBanger

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The Vette is slower than the GT500 unless you put the Z51 gear pkg on. That's why you've never seen C&D compare without the Z51. GM is just smarter at how they package the product. The base GT500 eats the base C6 and the GT500 similar mods to the Z51 will eat the C06/Z51. Put a tune on both and the gap widens even more. Throw $1500 at it and the gap widens more.

 

Also, you can't GT500 with ADMs to Vette without. When the new Vette first came out it was going in the $90K range. There's a good $30K gap, I think and they are very different cars. One's a muscle car, the other is a sports car. Diff config, diff audience (diff shirts :hysterical: ).

 

Did anyone notice that C&D waited two years for the Z06 before they'd do a Ford GT - Vette matchup ...wonder why?

 

And when they put the Ford GT up against a Ferrari, they used the friggin' Enzo! -- there's a fair match! (and the Ford GT still beat it in some segments tho the Ferrari out-handled the F-GT overall and beat it out by just a little, if I recall.

 

C&D sucks! Brock Yates is an arrogant :censored: imo. Have you ever noticed how C&D deals with reader criticism? Any magazine that feels it needs to publicly humiliate constructive criticism at an editor's level is an arrogant bully. That's why I cancelled my subscription years ago. There's something funny in the water in Ann Arbor MI.

 

When the GT500 first came out they trashed the interior as cheap-looking! Obviously the reviewer wasn't alive in the '60s or he might have comprehended the notion of retro. The interior is just gorgeous, imo! ...and no it's not like a Porsche -- that God it's not! It's a muscle car! :rant:

 

end :soapbox:

 

I think I'll buy a Volt :hysterical2:

 

Dan,

 

This post is so unlike you. You are such a factual kind of guy. Glad to see you have some opinions too. :rockon:

 

If you read the entire original article from 2006 on the Lightning Lap you will see that each manufacturer was asked to provide the most performance oriented car or optioned car it sells. "We asked the people who supplied the cars (all of them unmodified production vehicles) to send the models that are equipped with all the performance options available — things like bigger brakes and stiffer suspensions." So if a car offers a sport package it shoud be included. For example the Lotus Elise in the original test came with Yokohama A048s tires as part of the model’s optional Track package ($2495). According to C&D "they’re gumball tires that probably won’t last 2000 miles when driven on the street." The Nissan 350Z came in the form of the Track model with lightweight Rays forged wheels and Brembo brakes. The Mustang GT game with the optional 3.55 gearing.

 

Let me also educate you about the Z51 package for the Corvette since I know you appreciate as I do the specifics. The Z51 package is a performance oriented package available on ANY non Z06 C6 for an MSRP of $1,695. Approximately 40% of non Z06 C6s come with it. It is a performance-oriented package for the Gymkhana/Autocross enthusiast; includes extra cooling, stiffer springs and stabilizer bars, specific shock absorbers, larger brakes with cross-drilled rotors, specific tires and Z51-specific 6-speed manual when ordered with 6-speed manual transmission. Its 0 to 60 and quarter mile times are only a tenth quicker than a non Z51 equipped C6. The Z51s biggest benefit is in handling and the ability to keep the engine and brakes cooler during sustained hard driving. When you look at the benefits of the package the $1,695 option is a steal. That is why so many C6s come with it.

 

The Z06 offers no such option as it is already built for performance as is the Shelby. That isn't to say that they can't be improved with aftermarket parts, but that is not the point of the Lighting Lap. C&D says: "A case can be made that a lap of VIR is as relevant a measure of overall performance as is a lap of the Ring. And so the lap times we set at VIR from this issue forth will become a new performance gauge at Car and Driver.

 

To start off, we measured 17 cars, corralled in four of our five groups based on price. Once or twice a year, we’ll return to VIR with various cars and update the lap-time database. We won’t run every car at VIR that comes our way, but we will have a go at performance-oriented cars — and we hope that, in the not-too-distant future, a lap time at VIR will be just as important to car enthusiasts as a quarter-mile time."

 

My point is every car tested was to be the most performance oriented factory equipped car. That is why the Z51 Corvette was tested, the Track model 350Z was tested and the Lotus Elise with the Sport Package was tested. Price and Performance are the two major factors in the comparison. Does that cause cars with different personalities to be grouped together? Sure it does. Just look at the LL2 grouping which included a Mazda MX-5, a Chevrolet Cobalt SS, a Mustang GT, a Nissan 350Z and a Mitsubishi Evo MR just to name a few of the cars. All very different cars, but all performance oriented cars.

 

To me the purpose of the test is to see how performance oriented cars stack up against other performance oriented cars in the same price group. Its kind of a bang for the buck comparison. Sure not all the cars compete with each other in the marketplace, but it gives enthusiasts a chance to see how cars stack up against each other if they are in the market for a performance car, whether it is a four door four seater, a two door four seater or a two door two seater, convertible, coupe or whatever based on price.

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StangBanger Team Shelby Member

StangBanger

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I didn't want to have to do this Bow tie Boy but here is a quote from the "unbiased" C&D about the GT versus the ZO6:

 

"This time around, we had just one entry in this class: the $153,345 Ford GT. It was much more a surgical instrument than the Z06 was, and the Ford’s 3:00.7 time was quicker by 0.4 second. The shifter and the brake pedal had a more precise feel, and the GT had better traction out of slow corners, thanks to the mid-engine layout. The supercharged 550-hp, 5.4-liter V-8 didn’t sound as good as the Vette’s 505-hp V-8, but it made the GT go just as well in a straight line. Initial understeer in the Ford could be countered with use of the gas pedal, and the tail could be booted out in slower corners. But the GT rewarded precision and felt best at the limit of adhesion in balanced slides. And around this track, and on this day, that was a recipe for the best lap time."

 

The Ford GT performed better but the ZO6 DID sound better :hysterical2:

 

As I said to Carnut:

 

Yes and the GT costs twice as much (since you guys as so concerned about price and comparing a cheaper car with a more expensive car). That's the point of the comparison you get almost as much performance from a Z06 as you do from a GT for half the price. Assuming you can find a GT for MSRP, which I doubt you can.

 

BTW I would love to have a Ford GT. I am just waiting for one of you Blue Oval Boys to give me one. Alright who is going to give theirs up first. :hysterical2:

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68fastback Team Shelby Enthusiast

68fastback

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Posted
Dan,

 

This post is so unlike you. You are such a factual kind of guy. Glad to see you have some opinions too. :rockon:

 

If you read the entire original article from 2006 on the Lightning Lap you will see that each manufacturer was asked to provide the most performance oriented car or optioned car it sells. "We asked the people who supplied the cars (all of them unmodified production vehicles) to send the models that are equipped with all the performance options available — things like bigger brakes and stiffer suspensions." So if a car offers a sport package it shoud be included. For example the Lotus Elise in the original test came with Yokohama A048s tires as part of the model’s optional Track package ($2495). According to C&D "they’re gumball tires that probably won’t last 2000 miles when driven on the street." The Nissan 350Z came in the form of the Track model with lightweight Rays forged wheels and Brembo brakes. The Mustang GT game with the optional 3.55 gearing.

 

Let me also educate you about the Z51 package for the Corvette since I know you appreciate as I do the specifics. The Z51 package is a performance oriented package available on ANY non Z06 C6 for an MSRP of $1,695. Approximately 40% of non Z06 C6s come with it. It is a performance-oriented package for the Gymkhana/Autocross enthusiast; includes extra cooling, stiffer springs and stabilizer bars, specific shock absorbers, larger brakes with cross-drilled rotors, specific tires and Z51-specific 6-speed manual when ordered with 6-speed manual transmission. Its 0 to 60 and quarter mile times are only a tenth quicker than a non Z51 equipped C6. The Z51s biggest benefit is in handling and the ability to keep the engine and brakes cooler during sustained hard driving. When you look at the benefits of the package the $1,695 option is a steal. That is why so many C6s come with it.

 

The Z06 offers no such option as it is already built for performance as is the Shelby. That isn't to say that they can't be improved with aftermarket parts, but that is not the point of the Lighting Lap. C&D says: "A case can be made that a lap of VIR is as relevant a measure of overall performance as is a lap of the Ring. And so the lap times we set at VIR from this issue forth will become a new performance gauge at Car and Driver.

 

To start off, we measured 17 cars, corralled in four of our five groups based on price. Once or twice a year, we’ll return to VIR with various cars and update the lap-time database. We won’t run every car at VIR that comes our way, but we will have a go at performance-oriented cars — and we hope that, in the not-too-distant future, a lap time at VIR will be just as important to car enthusiasts as a quarter-mile time."

 

My point is every car tested was to be the most performance oriented factory equipped car. That is why the Z51 Corvette was tested, the Track model 350Z was tested and the Lotus Elise with the Sport Package was tested. Price and Performance are the two major factors in the comparison. Does that cause cars with different personalities to be grouped together? Sure it does. Just look at the LL2 grouping which included a Mazda MX-5, a Chevrolet Cobalt SS, a Mustang GT, a Nissan 350Z and a Mitsubishi Evo MR just to name a few of the cars. All very different cars, but all performance oriented cars.

 

To me the purpose of the test is to see how performance oriented cars stack up against other performance oriented cars in the same price group. Its kind of a bang for the buck comparison. Sure not all the cars compete with each other in the marketplace, but it gives enthusiasts a chance to see how cars stack up against each other if they are in the market for a performance car, whether it is a four door four seater, a two door four seater or a two door two seater, convertible, coupe or whatever based on price.

 

Thanks, SB ...I appeciate where you're coming from. Unfortunately, Ford doesn't do performance options like GM and everyone else... a shared-corp line doesn't permit that. There are no gearing options for the GT500. And where was a C&D heads-up roadcourse test when the Ford GT came out (and nothing could touch it)?

 

I'm not saying a roadcourse test isn't a good indicator of overall performance -- it is -- just that C&D is as biased as can be in what and when they choose to test and how they test it. It's the same tactics the nightly news uses to slant what we're fed, depending upon the affiliations, agandas and biases of the corporate owner.

 

C&D always treats Lutz/GM with iconic respect, but have denegrated Ford and Bill Ford (in how they refer to his name: little Billy, Billy Ford, etc). They just hate Fords, period -- no secret there! ...and that's their perogative, I guess.

 

If GM came out with a special-edition Camaro drag-car, you can bet C&D would conjure up a new 'standard' test for 'muscle' cars.

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kstrong Team Shelby Enthusiast

kstrong

Posted
Posted
I knew it!! :hysterical:

Hey - that's right!

 

I smoked weed in the front flower garden - whew - too hot.

Thanks Ken - laughter is what I need. Roger that.

 

 

 

That's why the dark glasses. :hysterical2:

:hysterical2: :happy feet: I nearly fell off my chair.

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