Wheel Hop

[ccahill]

I have put about 800 miles on my GT500 and have noticed a lot of wheel hop during burnouts. It seems to be very bad at times to where I have gotten out of the car and looked underneath to be sure that I didn't break anything. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I think I will take it in to the dealer and have them check for loose suspension components.

Chris

[TAHOE GT]

I have put about 800 miles on my GT500 and have noticed a lot of wheel hop during burnouts. It seems to be very bad at times to where I have gotten out of the car and looked underneath to be sure that I didn't break anything. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I think I will take it in to the dealer and have them check for loose suspension components.

Chris

 

 

Chronic and severe. The only answer lay in high quality LCA's and a UCA. BMR or SPOHN.

[68KR07Shelby]

Chronic and severe. The only answer lay in high quality LCA's and a UCA. BMR or SPOHN.

 

 

 

sorry to be ignorant but what is LCA and UCA?

[rpretzel]

sorry to be ignorant but what is LCA and UCA?

 

 

Lower Control Arm and Upper Control Arm.

 

One of the articles I read recently recommended a UCA upgrade because of the excessive wheel hop.

[68KR07Shelby]

thanks

[TAHOE GT]

sorry to be ignorant but what is LCA and UCA?

 

 

That's why the board exists. I often educate myself on one board or another. I shouldn't presume that everyone knows what the varios acronyms mean.

 

The reasons for the wheel hop are myriad, but here are the biggies:

 

#1 The rubber bushings in the control arms are TOO SOFT. The Shel has firmer bushings than a regular GT, but it also has more torque. As the tire tries to move the car forward the axle tries to rotate - Newton's Third Law of Motion. The rubber bushings compress. If the tires slip at all, the bushing has a chance to unload and return the axle to the original postion. The tire then grabs traction again, the bushings compress, the tire loses tract...

BAD things happen during wheel hop. Parts break. Wallets empty.

 

#2 The geometry, or changing of it during launch, can affect wheel hop. As the car tries to launch and the axle rotates the pinion noses-up. Pinion angle can affect how hard the tire bites. You'll have to ask someone else why. If the tire can bite harder, there is less chance for the tire to slipp causing the above scenario to occur. Because of how short our UCA is, the pinion angle will change dramitacally during launch as the car squats. If the car hops, then there is even more of a change because the suspension sags a little and then gets loaded again. BAD NEWS.

 

#3 Sticky, but not sticky enough tires. I get NO wheel hop on Mickey Thompson Street ET Drag Radials becaus the stick like crazy. But when I try to heat them up prior to launch, they madse the wheel hop worse than the Goodyears.

 

 

 

I hope this helps.

[StangFinally]

I have seen this a few times now...can you tell me if the wheel hope occurs with the traction control on as well or only with it turned off?

 

Bert

[TAHOE GT]

I have seen this a few times now...can you tell me if the wheel hope occurs with the traction control on as well or only with it turned off?

 

Bert

 

 

My experience has been with the TCS turned off. I have noticed a little with it on, but as soon as it kicks in the hop HAS to stop.

[shel-b001]

That's why the board exists. I often educate myself on one board or another. I shouldn't presume that everyone knows what the varios acronyms mean.

 

The reasons for the wheel hop are myriad, but here are the biggies:

 

#1 The rubber bushings in the control arms are TOO SOFT. The Shel has firmer bushings than a regular GT, but it also has more torque. As the tire tries to move the car forward the axle tries to rotate - Newton's Third Law of Motion. The rubber bushings compress. If the tires slip at all, the bushing has a chance to unload and return the axle to the original postion. The tire then grabs traction again, the bushings compress, the tire loses tract...

BAD things happen during wheel hop. Parts break. Wallets empty.

 

#2 The geometry, or changing of it during launch, can affect wheel hop. As the car tries to launch and the axle rotates the pinion noses-up. Pinion angle can affect how hard the tire bites. You'll have to ask someone else why. If the tire can bite harder, there is less chance for the tire to slipp causing the above scenario to occur. Because of how short our UCA is, the pinion angle will change dramitacally during launch as the car squats. If the car hops, then there is even more of a change because the suspension sags a little and then gets loaded again. BAD NEWS.

 

#3 Sticky, but not sticky enough tires. I get NO wheel hop on Mickey Thompson Street ET Drag Radials becaus the stick like crazy. But when I try to heat them up prior to launch, they madse the wheel hop worse than the Goodyears.

I hope this helps.

 

Tahoe G.T

 

So am I right in saying when you run sticky Mickey Thompson ET Drag Radials you don`t try& heat them

Before a run? So if & when i Launch hard I will get sevre wheel hop so now what do you do?

[TAHOE GT]

Tahoe G.T

 

So am I right in saying when you run sticky Mickey Thompson ET Drag Radials you don`t try& heat them

Before a run? So if & when i Launch hard I will get sevre wheel hop so now what do you do?

 

 

001,

 

I've run them once. Each time I tried to heat them I got wheel hop. Being somewhat stubborn, I still tried to heat them. Upon launch, I had little or no hop. (I couldn't detect it, but my mind is elsewhre when launching)

I went from 13.6@104 to 12.6@110 and droppedfrom 2.20 - 1.895 60' times.

 

Really, they just magnified the flaws in the suspension. I still get a bit of hop digging out of a tight corner, so I think the control arm upgrade will prove to be the most important for those who like to drive hard.

 

I recognze that we "shouldn't have to" make these kinds of upgrades, but only a small percentage of owners will ever encounter the problem. i just happen to be one of them.

 

Launch at 3k rpm and "slide" the clutch out. That should minimize the issue. It works for me, somewhat. I lack the required finesse to eliminate the hop all together.

[shel-b001]

001,

 

I've run them once. Each time I tried to heat them I got wheel hop. Being somewhat stubborn, I still tried to heat them. Upon launch, I had little or no hop. (I couldn't detect it, but my mind is elsewhre when launching)

I went from 13.6@104 to 12.6@110 and droppedfrom 2.20 - 1.895 60' times.

 

Really, they just magnified the flaws in the suspension. I still get a bit of hop digging out of a tight corner, so I think the control arm upgrade will prove to be the most important for those who like to drive hard.

 

I recognze that we "shouldn't have to" make these kinds of upgrades, but only a small percentage of owners will ever encounter the problem. i just happen to be one of them.

 

Launch at 3k rpm and "slide" the clutch out. That should minimize the issue. It works for me, somewhat. I lack the required finesse to eliminate the hop all together.

 

Tahoe G.T

 

Great stuff Thanks for the Info.

[68KR07Shelby]

Tahoe GT thanks a lot. I learn something everyday from this board

[rpretzel]

I wonder if control arms might be the rumored suspension upgrade for Job 2?

[wildosvt]

I wonder if control arms might be the rumored suspension upgrade for Job 2?

 

 

 

I doubt it. They put "comfort" in there for a reason. Its not a "R" model.

 

You dont want this thing to ride like poop, Ala Z06 do you?

 

 

One other thing to point out. IF you have the experience do a burnout in 2nd. This is'nt a stinkin 5 speed! LOL!

 

(PLEASE make sure you do this in the most safest conditions! And at your own will. Im not driving it for you)

 

Here is a mild 2nd gear burn in the most wheel hop happy Ford out there.

 

Click here to watch Traction-issue

[07 Shelby Cobra]

Wheel Hop! Not here. Sweet Launches. I did a good one Yesterday without TC. I expected that I peeled off half of my Tread. I went back this morning for a look and not even a single skid mark! I really like this car!!

My 95' 5 speed T-Bird Super Coupe? Now there was a wheel Hopper'. I lost half my teeth! :wacko:

[Lutzcat]

You need to do a total realignment of the rearend. Something is off, maybe during shipping, assembly, etc. Quite a few have been produced with no wheel hop being reported. This is alot cheaper than throwing parts at it.

 

Lutzcat

[carnut]

I wonder if control arms might be the rumored suspension upgrade for Job 2?

 

I heard somewhere it was mostly springs, maybe ala GT

[kaylan1521]

Yesterday I was in a nice abandoned industrial area so I decidrd to try a couple of launches and I got to tell you the wheel hop was pretty intense.

[StangFinally]

I have not received my car yet, so I can't experiment.... but reading C&D when they tested, they stated that the best they could do was with the TC on, bring the rpm to 3500, dump the clutch and stand on it.... There was no discussion (that I can recall) on wheel hop, other than advising that the GT500 design was much better than previous Mustangs. Has anyone added traction aid devices.... ??

[kaylan1521]

I have not received my car yet, so I can't experiment.... but reading C&D when they tested, they stated that the best they could do was with the TC on, bring the rpm to 3500, dump the clutch and stand on it.... There was no discussion (that I can recall) on wheel hop, other than advising that the GT500 design was much better than previous Mustangs. Has anyone added traction aid devices.... ??

 

Not yet but when I do it'll say M/T ET DRAG

[StangFinally]

Not yet but when I do it'll say M/T ET DRAG

 

 

Hey Kaylan...what about a mechanical traction device? to aid the tires..?? I really thought the panhard bar set up would help... I know it is mostly for lateral control though.

 

Bert

[TAHOE GT]

 

One other thing to point out. IF you have the experience do a burnout in 2nd. This is'nt a stinkin 5 speed! LOL!

 

 

 

I tried that with the M/T's and I felt like I had the TCS on. Maybe I did. I need a bit more practice with that one, maybe I need to drop the hammer at a much higher rpm.

 

You need to do a total realignment of the rearend. Something is off, maybe during shipping, assembly, etc. Quite a few have been produced with no wheel hop being reported.

 

The only way to realign the rearend is to change the control arms to adj. ones. However, I wouldn't be throwing parts at it as it's the first upgrade I made to my SN-95 and it made a HUGE difference in the ride quality and handling. It also shortened my 60" times in that car.

[07 GT500]

I really do hate hearing about this "wheel hop" problem. My '03 Cobra convertible wheel hopped like a big dog, and I would have bet this Shelby, without IRS, would not wheel hop. I can't believe you guys are having the same problem with this.

 

Greg, thanks, and your $ is on the way back to you!

 

Chris

[TAHOE GT]

Thanks, Chris.

[JETSOLVER]

Did not a few early owners mention that the rear was not centered laterally in the car? I wonder if some preload might not help with this.

[ccahill]

Motor Trend on Speed channel had a special on the GT500 this past weekend and I watched the segment where it shows the GT500 burning rubber and it looked smooth and no mention of wheel hop. Even a "minor" burnout will have my teeth rattling. I will definately have the dealer check it out.

 

I finally have 1000 miles on the clock and now I take it in for a dyno run Monday afternoon. I am running it at test and tune day on Friday and hopefully I can better my 1/4 mile time of 13.7 from last week (high humidity and poor driving/reaction time). Launching this car is not as easy as it looks! I will try slipping the clutch a bit more than last week.

 

Chris

[68fastback]

Motor Trend on Speed channel had a special on the GT500 this past weekend and I watched the segment where it shows the GT500 burning rubber and it looked smooth and no mention of wheel hop. Even a "minor" burnout will have my teeth rattling. I will definately have the dealer check it out.

 

I finally have 1000 miles on the clock and now I take it in for a dyno run Monday afternoon. I am running it at test and tune day on Friday and hopefully I can better my 1/4 mile time of 13.7 from last week (high humidity and poor driving/reaction time). Launching this car is not as easy as it looks! I will try slipping the clutch a bit more than last week.

 

Chris

 

 

I've been reading this thread for a few days and, while I don't know what the answer is, what jumps out at me is the variability between cars -- some have the prob and others, under ostensibly identical use, do not -- or don't exhibit it.

 

I'm wondering if the short upper control link bushing isn't the culprit. That's the first thing I'd inspect for a possible insertion problem or other signs of faulty installation or softness. Of course, a denser replacement might help a bunch, but the stock one should not produce such variability unless there's some signif variation. I've seen in some vehicles (not GT500) struts are intentionally misalligned longitudinally (i.e. not exactly perpendicular to the bushing mount centerline) to pre-load the bushing a little as an alternative to a more time consuming/expensive compressed bushing installation. Form pix I've seen, I can;t tell how the GT500 is actually engineered. So, the next thing I'd check would be the upper control-link mount at the unibody.

 

Just a thought, but if just several people can put their cars on a wheel lift and take some pix from over the top of the diff mount looking toward the body mount (might need macro setting on cam to focus), and from the under the car looking straight up at the control-link unibody mount, it might reveal some variability. I would expect the differential mount to be ok (or at least no have variation) and the unibody mount to be the problem if there's an allignment problem/variation to begin with.

 

-----------

 

Of course launching at 3,400 rpm with TC on will automatically get you 'decent' launch even if it isn't half the fun and certainly road surface can affect the variation in hop being seen too.

 

.

[wildosvt]

 

The only way to realign the rearend is to change the control arms to adj. ones. However, I wouldn't be throwing parts at it as it's the first upgrade I made to my SN-95 and it made a HUGE difference in the ride quality and handling. It also shortened my 60" times in that car.

 

 

 

To center the rear axle, You will need a panhard bar (adjustable) only.

 

 

 

68Fastback.

 

This pics for you. You can see the "black" upper CA mount just above the pinion.

 

[68fastback]

To center the rear axle, You will need a panhard bar (adjustable) only.

68Fastback.

 

This pics for you. You can see the "black" upper CA mount just above the pinion.

 

 

 

Oh, well, so much for my idea of a bottom-up view <lol> ...can't actually see the bushing. (that pic looks familiar from another thread, yes?) I do see the where what looks the mount (black) attaches to the unibody cross member... if it was my car and I was getting severe wheel-hop, I'd want to see if those bolts are truly tight and if the rubber bushings (can't see in pic) look seated.

 

.

[TAHOE GT]

if it was my car and I was getting severe wheel-hop, I'd want to see if those bolts are truly tight and if the rubber bushings (can't see in pic) look seated.

 

 

That is my car and I will check those items on Friday. I'll see if I can get some UCA pics, too.