traction control off/high speed downshift?

[palacekeeper]

I've gotten pretty well used to the car with traction control on, and what to expect with hard downshifts, launching etc. Now, I'm checking things out with T/C OFF .

 

Obviously. launching the car is a whole different ballgame. Learning how much throttle to control wheel spin and keeping the car straight are more challenging.

 

I've spun sideways a few times from a launch, as expected, with excessive wheelspin.

 

What I'm wondering, though, is what to expect at higher speeds with T/C off.

 

With T/C on, I like to grab 3rd gear around 65-70 with WOT and let 'er rip. What will she do with T/C off if I do this? I don't want to learn the hard way and end up in a ditch, but I'm figuring that fish-tailing will be less of a factor at this speed.

 

Thoughts or experiences here?

[BanditSRT8]

I've gotten pretty well used to the car with traction control on, and what to expect with hard downshifts, launching etc. Now, I'm checking things out with T/C OFF .

 

Obviously. launching the car is a whole different ballgame. Learning how much throttle to control wheel spin and keeping the car straight are more challenging.

 

I've spun sideways a few times from a launch, as expected, with excessive wheelspin.

 

What I'm wondering, though, is what to expect at higher speeds with T/C off.

 

With T/C on, I like to grab 3rd gear around 65-70 with WOT and let 'er rip. What will she do with T/C off if I do this? I don't want to learn the hard way and end up in a ditch, but I'm figuring that fish-tailing will be less of a factor at this speed.

 

Thoughts or experiences here?

 

 

On a warm, dry road with rev-matching you should not have any issues whatsoever. I do 3rd gear downshifts to pass as high as 80mph.

 

If you pop the clutch while flooring it, or are on a cooler road, or wet road... you will break traction. The amount of spin or danger of losing control will be a result of the degree of those variables. Very cold road, or very wet road, etc will result in loss of control if you're not expecting it.

 

This of course is in reference to a bone stock Shelby. Adding more mods and more power only increases the chance of slippage.

 

Be sure to rev-match your motor and tranny before doing any downshifts (either for passing/performance, or simple downshifts to slow down) to reduce wear on your baby.

[07 SHLB]

Be sure to rev-match your motor and tranny before doing any downshifts (either for passing/performance, or simple downshifts to slow down) to reduce wear on your baby.

 

Can you elaborate on how to correctly do this? It's Friday and the beer vendor that supplies us with beer at work on Fridays is out. I can't figure this out sober.

[6-Speed]

Be sure to rev-match your motor and tranny before doing any downshifts (either for passing/performance, or simple downshifts to slow down) to reduce wear on your baby.

When you say rev-match, do you mean double-clutching to rev-match? I will typically double clutch when down-shifting through more drastic gear changes i.e. 6th to 3rd, but I rarely do when down shifting by only one gear.

[BanditSRT8]

As an example... you're downshifting to slow down for a traffic light.......

 

Not rev-matching:

 

Depress clutch, downshift, release clutch to slow car down. When you release the clutch you'll notice the RPM's climb high since you're now in a lower gear.

 

Rev-matching:

 

Depress clutch, downshift, but before releasing clutch, rev the gas up a little to match where the RPM's will shoot up to. This will be a smoother transition not only in how it feels to you (no pulling you forward in your seat) but it is far gentler on your clutch.

 

Same for downshifting for performance. If you're going 80 in 6th gear and need to pass someone, you know that downshifting into 3rd will rev the motor up to about 4000rpms. So instead of putting that much friction on the clutch as it tries to engage at that engine speed, simply push down the gas to get up to 4000rpm, then release the clutch and you'll be perfectly matched and will avoid bucking.

[clark17357]

I have always called it "blipping" the throttle. I have no idea where that term comes from but it is something I do automatically in the appropriate situation. It takes a little while to get the hang of it but, after that, you're good to go for life.

Jim

[RUFDRAFT]

Dodge has it right calling their new retro a Challenger, because that is what they are the challenger not the champ. I will say body looks nice, but too big and a Mercedes auto trans just does not make. What I dont understand is how they could build it for 4 or 5 k less than the Shelby. They seem to have a nicer interior with more standard options than ours. Where did Ford get the extra cost from???? Glad they are finally here because now I know for sure I made the right choice with the Shelby.

+1

 

If you get the engine at the rpm's it will be running at when you downshift - you'll get a smooth transition into the lower gear.

 

Same thing applies when braking while downshifting - that's heel and toeing.

[sharabi]

Can you elaborate on how to correctly do this? It's Friday and the beer vendor that supplies us with beer at work on Fridays is out. I can't figure this out sober.

 

 

 

 

[Ford blue blood]

If you really want to learn RPM matching do up and down shifts without using the clutch. When the RPMs are matched (nearly so) it will slid into gear with ni fuss of muss (grinding). Had to do this on a trip with the 03 after tearing a ham string. Most painful to use the clutch so it was only pushed in at stop lights. The better you get and the more tuned your ear becomes the faster you can make the gear changes.

[str8black500]

+1

 

If you get the engine at the rpm's it will be running at when you downshift - you'll get a smooth transition into the lower gear.

 

Same thing applies when braking while downshifting - that's heel and toeing.

 

Heel toeing in this car is impossible at my height... been there, tried that.... my legs / foot dont fit all to well!!!

 

If your going to be downshifting for turns or while running in a straight line and you dont match the RPMs, its a rough ride. I just always thought it was a natural thing to do... maybe not for everyone?

[RUFDRAFT]

Natural? Yep. One gear at a time! I don't look at the tach when I go down one. I guess it becomes a natural thing over time.

 

The only time I used to go down more than one was when I drove big trucks and was making a turn on city streets. Since they don't have syncros - you either get the rpm's right - or you ain't changing gears!

[chuckstang]

I notice that there is something in these GT500s that makes rev matching very difficult, more so than any previous car I have driven.

 

Is it the hydraulic clutch? Honestly, I see much smoother down shifts in this car when I just down shift and not rev match even when going from 6th to 3rd

[mciarochi]

This is funny! I couldn't heel-toe at all for months.

 

Then I let my nephew drive (he races mitsubishis) and he loved it. He went on and on about how it was "like butter" and so easy and smooth, and how the engine wound up with just a blip....

 

???

 

I went back out and tripped over the pedals for a while, and suddenly I found the right spot, and he was exactly correct. It's like the ball of my big toe on the brake pedal, with the heel over the gas. A teeny bit of ankle roll blips the throttle. I was trying too hard and moving my foot too much.

 

It's not like anything I've ever driven - it's easier!

[chuckstang]

I always thought it was the other way around, heel on brake and toe on gas?

[BanditSRT8]

The terms are easily, and often, mixed up.

 

Heel and toe refers to heel on brake, toes on accelerator to allow you to burnout or launch (powerbraking) in a manual trans car. Doing the heel and toe allows your left foot freedom to manipulate the clutch.

[mciarochi]

I think it changes from car to car.

 

Yes, my truck is heel on the brake. The SHO was basically toe on the brake, and heavy action with the heel.

 

The GT500 is the ball of my foot with the heel slightly out (pigeon toe). If I roll my ankle, it blips the throttle. It's nice because it's easy to keep steady brake pressure.

 

I have also heard that sometimes changing shoes will help.

[QuietShelby]

Yeah the first time i tried a high speed down shift in the shelby i got it perfectly and it was a beautiful thing! So Smooth and the Power was never lost!

 

 

Now i'm gonna have to try Heel and Toe. Never done it and never really tried but heard a lot about it with road racing.

[palacekeeper]

Yeah the first time i tried a high speed down shift in the shelby i got it perfectly and it was a beautiful thing! So Smooth and the Power was never lost!

 

 

I had some opportunities last night to experiment with some of the shifts with T/C off (without traffic around). Going to 3rd with WOT at about 65-70 performed great, and I did not notice any significant traction loss or loss of control. I was also testing going to 2nd at 40-45 mph, which was fine also.