AFBLUE Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 It would be insightful to here the official reason why the decision was made to call it the "GT-H" verses the "GT-350H". Here's what I think happened. The 40th anniversary of the GT-350H was approaching and SAI and Hertz wanted to commerate the occasion. Either SAI and Ford already had plans to use "GT 350" once a more powerful engine option became available (5.0L?). So they had to come up with a new name to for the car. Or maybe there was an unresolved legal issue with SAI using GT 350 that has since been cleared up. I don't know the current legal ramifications of the previous legal battle between Ford and CS on use of the GT 350 name. Apparently CS sued and lost to Ford when Ford used "GT 350" on the 1984 Mustang. There's been multiple articles about when AmyB went to Ford (a video too) circa 2005 with ~5-6 proposed projects for SAI (in collaboration with Ford). The GT 350 was in there from the start as AmyB has said if/when the GT 350 comes out. Bottomline is that they had their reasons for not using "GT 350" on for the GT-H and SGT. Until the "official" history is written, we are all just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailcm Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 It would be insightful to here the official reason why the decision was made to call it the "GT-H" verses the "GT-350H". Here's what I think happened. The 40th anniversary of the GT-350H was approaching and SAI and Hertz wanted to commerate the occasion. Either SAI and Ford already had plans to use "GT 350" once a more powerful engine option became available (5.0L?). So they had to come up with a new name to for the car. Or maybe there was an unresolved legal issue with SAI using GT 350 that has since been cleared up. I don't know the current legal ramifications of the previous legal battle between Ford and CS on use of the GT 350 name. Apparently CS sued and lost to Ford when Ford used "GT 350" on the 1984 Mustang. There's been multiple articles about when AmyB went to Ford (a video too) circa 2005 with ~5-6 proposed projects for SAI (in collaboration with Ford). The GT 350 was in there from the start as AmyB has said if/when the GT 350 comes out. Bottomline is that they had their reasons for not using "GT 350" on for the GT-H and SGT. Until the "official" history is written, we are all just guessing. I support his right to vent his opinion on the forum. I think it makes Team Shelby membership more valuable. My 2 cents: I can see both sides of this discussion. For the Plaintiff: If the Shelby GT was not suppose to resemble a "GT350" then why didn't SAI use the same hood as the GT-H? Instead they use the Cobra hood scoop that is on par with the hood scoop of a 65 GT350. Also - it was the GT0350H back in the day. Not the GT-H. Yet...all of the marketing content showed the 60's model GT350H sitting next to the modern day GT-H. Thus it is possible to infer the modern GT is a GT350 without the "GT350H" on the side strip. This vague - stealth like - marketing spin was also in question with regard to the number of production years for the GT500. Clearly many on the board have evidence of a 2 year (3 at the most) statements from FORD in various video, articles, inter-company documentation. Yet - we have all seen the undercover pics of the upcoming 2010 GT500 (shame on you FORD & SAI for deceiving us all). For the Defense: SAI clearly stated that the reason for the Shelby GT was to meet demand from customers wanting a GT-H in a retail package. I don't ever recall SAI ever saying it was a GT350 - or - ever showing a side-by-side shot of a 65 GT350 next to a Shelby GT. I could be wrong..but I don't recall that. SAI is in the business of making cars and money and keeping the Shelby tradition alive. I am full support of that. As was already stated, without SAI non of us would have a Shelby sitting in the garage no matter if SVT made it or not. I love my GT500 and am grateful of the resurgence at SAI. If SAI told you in 2006 that they would be making the GT350 in 2011 people would have most likely passed on the Shelby GT. If that's true then SAI might not be around today. Summary: I think the bottom line is that there really doesn't seem to be a thought out product launch plan back in 04/05. I would agree that it appears the Ford and SAI opportunity was put together quickly and the Shelby GT / GT500 where rushed to market before thinking thru the next 10 years. So what we have are these debates. Amy has her hands full on current production issues and I am confident has gotten future production launches lined up. While it would be great to know what those are....I doubt she could reveal them to us all. Has SAI made mistakes along the way...you bet. But that's all part of fast growing pains. If any one of us has been in a start-up (I have 3 times) it can get messy. Am I a cool-aide drinking member of SAI - absolutely not. I am an independent thinker....I've flamed a couple times in the past....but hopefully it was understood that my flaming was in an effort to point out issues that need addressed for the betterment of SAI. Let's all keep that in mind and we will all have a wonderful experience together (owners and manufacturer). P.S. Amy - please double check your typing when posting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKindaGuy Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 It would be insightful to here the official reason why the decision was made to call it the "GT-H" verses the "GT-350H". Here's what I think happened. The 40th anniversary of the GT-350H was approaching and SAI and Hertz wanted to commerate the occasion. Either SAI and Ford already had plans to use "GT 350" once a more powerful engine option became available (5.0L?). So they had to come up with a new name to for the car. Or maybe there was an unresolved legal issue with SAI using GT 350 that has since been cleared up. I don't know the current legal ramifications of the previous legal battle between Ford and CS on use of the GT 350 name. Apparently CS sued and lost to Ford when Ford used "GT 350" on the 1984 Mustang. There's been multiple articles about when AmyB went to Ford (a video too) circa 2005 with ~5-6 proposed projects for SAI (in collaboration with Ford). The GT 350 was in there from the start as AmyB has said if/when the GT 350 comes out. Bottomline is that they had their reasons for not using "GT 350" on for the GT-H and SGT. Until the "official" history is written, we are all just guessing. You hit on the points that I am aware of as well. I first found out that there was some connection intended between the current SGT / GT-H and past GT 350 and 350-H models when I actually read in-print in some NON-MUSTANG muscle-car magazine about 6 months ago that the current SGT and GT-H side-stripe was intended to be decaled with "GT350" and GT350-H. The article cited Ford objections based on (1) name ownership infringement AND (2) Ford objecting early after SAI announced GT-H development intentions not to have a GT350 named car marketed at the same time the GT500 was just hitting the dealer lots. Also has anyone noticed that when Amy has responded about the current GT-H and SGT being the first Shelby issued Mustang in 40 years that this reference is the sum total of it's stated "heritage"? You would think that since SAI has poured its "heritage" heart out over the GT500 with a book and all, a car mnaufactured undeer the auspices of FORD that SAI would at least want to provided something rather detail and substantioal regarding the design and development heritage of the GT-H and SGT, a car that was issued under the auspices of SAI. There is some REAL history here that is not apparently common knowledge and really needs to be revealed....and revealed not as a spin in the interest of trying to create another SAI selling opportunity but in the interest of preserving heritage, lineage and honesty. It is unfortunate that there are members alledgedly in my "golden year" age group along with perhaps some SAI company folks that get so caught up in the bedazzle with BS or their loyalties that they have developed a careless attitude toward knowing or revealing the truth even if it is not what they wish or know to be true. Another unfortunate thing is the invalid asumption that an "official statement" is equated with being the absolute truth of a particular issue at had. There is alot of history in this world where "official" had nothing to do with what actually occurred. But I do agree in the spirit of the above poster's message that it would be great to get to the truth that is BOTH "official" and "TRUE". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyb Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 There are a few points here, 1- The reason we didn't use the hertz hood is that we didn't have time to test it thru the ford system for a pre title car, otherwise we would have. The scoop went on the current hood, a faster testing time. 2- there is not tie with the SGT and the GT350 by us, never was, some magazines have since they thought this could be a modern GT350, we have never filmed it with a vintage car, as ford did with the vintage GT500's and the the new. And Hertz, tied it to the vintage GT350H because that is their tie and 40 years since Shelby built one. We have not tied the current Shelby GT to the GT350, because we have had plans from the beginning of having a ,modern version of Carroll's GT350. The Shelby GT is a great car, I have said that from the beginning. I own 2 a GT and a GT-H. I don't see why it has to tie to anything other then what it is, a car built by Shelby that has great performance, handling and is a well balanced machine. And it looks cool too. Shelbyguy, you have been disrespectful to Carroll SAI and myself. I understand more then you know I am not a BS corporate person, I have owned many cars, I raced them in my youth and in recently in bull runs across America I get the part you don't like that there could be a GT350, well there will be, it will be different, and it won't compete with other Shelby's. As I said in my last post, there are many owners of current Shelby's and there have been posts about the SS and 40th hurting the gt500, and the GT/SC hurting the GT and so on. None of this has proven out. Carroll and SAI run his legacy and with the help of some very knowledgeable vintage people we will continue to use the past in all our cars. The Shelby GT is a homage to the Shelby legacy, not just a specific car, and that is what you should cherish, as we say all the time... Every Shelby we build has a bit of Cobra DNA in it and that is what all our cars tie too. Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyb Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 this is precisely my point. most of the folks here are so busy attacking me thy completely missed the point as to what I meant by the word "disservice". sai had plenty of opportunity to announce a future gt350 before they put the gt-h or sgt into development. had they done so most sgt owners would have passed on the sgt. instead sai produced the sgt and gt-h, used the history behind the original gt350-h as a marketing spring board, sold the gt-h and sgt's under that market pretence and then turned around when all was said and done and are now committing to a gt350 production model. If you folks don't see that as a manipulation of the customer base in order to sell more shelby's then you pepole are exctremely clueless of all the hype going on around you. ShelbyGuy, the issue is that we are not ready to build what our idea of a GT350 is. Your idea is that it is the SGT , ours is not. Our vision is of a different car, a car that can also become a "R" model. So you are taking your ideas and wondering why we haven't done this. When and if we build a GT350 it will be our(Carroll and SAI) vision of a modern GT350, it will tie to the vintage car. We never marketed this as anything other then what it was, a great car and a retail version of the Hertz car. We were very careful to not do anything to actually lessen the SGT, as we thought it was a car model that could stand on it's own as a new Shelby in the corral of Shelby's. And it might very well continue as a brand in the coming years, maybe right along side a GT350 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyb Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I support his right to vent his opinion on the forum. I think it makes Team Shelby membership more valuable. My 2 cents: I can see both sides of this discussion. For the Plaintiff: If the Shelby GT was not suppose to resemble a "GT350" then why didn't SAI use the same hood as the GT-H? Instead they use the Cobra hood scoop that is on par with the hood scoop of a 65 GT350. Also - it was the GT0350H back in the day. Not the GT-H. Yet...all of the marketing content showed the 60's model GT350H sitting next to the modern day GT-H. Thus it is possible to infer the modern GT is a GT350 without the "GT350H" on the side strip. This vague - stealth like - marketing spin was also in question with regard to the number of production years for the GT500. Clearly many on the board have evidence of a 2 year (3 at the most) statements from FORD in various video, articles, inter-company documentation. Yet - we have all seen the undercover pics of the upcoming 2010 GT500 (shame on you FORD & SAI for deceiving us all). For the Defense: SAI clearly stated that the reason for the Shelby GT was to meet demand from customers wanting a GT-H in a retail package. I don't ever recall SAI ever saying it was a GT350 - or - ever showing a side-by-side shot of a 65 GT350 next to a Shelby GT. I could be wrong..but I don't recall that. SAI is in the business of making cars and money and keeping the Shelby tradition alive. I am full support of that. As was already stated, without SAI non of us would have a Shelby sitting in the garage no matter if SVT made it or not. I love my GT500 and am grateful of the resurgence at SAI. If SAI told you in 2006 that they would be making the GT350 in 2011 people would have most likely passed on the Shelby GT. If that's true then SAI might not be around today. Summary: I think the bottom line is that there really doesn't seem to be a thought out product launch plan back in 04/05. I would agree that it appears the Ford and SAI opportunity was put together quickly and the Shelby GT / GT500 where rushed to market before thinking thru the next 10 years. So what we have are these debates. Amy has her hands full on current production issues and I am confident has gotten future production launches lined up. While it would be great to know what those are....I doubt she could reveal them to us all. Has SAI made mistakes along the way...you bet. But that's all part of fast growing pains. If any one of us has been in a start-up (I have 3 times) it can get messy. Am I a cool-aide drinking member of SAI - absolutely not. I am an independent thinker....I've flamed a couple times in the past....but hopefully it was understood that my flaming was in an effort to point out issues that need addressed for the betterment of SAI. Let's all keep that in mind and we will all have a wonderful experience together (owners and manufacturer). Thanks for the post. It becomes easy to judge when someone doesn't have all the facts. It is always more complex then it seems. In September 2005 when I took over there was no Mustangs planned from SAI. That happened in January 2006 when our proposed Hertz car be made. Until that time the only Shelby planned was the one built by Ford. Many thought we could do what Roush and Saleen had done and built cars on our own, but we at SAI knew the Shelby Heritage with Cobra and Mustang was to do it with our partner Ford. We do have a plan going forward and it is to build the best Shelby's and in the future that might be more then a Mustang. Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpow96 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Wow... pulling out the FASCIST card. Now we ARE back in the 60s. BTW, this is not a public forum, so the traditional definition of censorship does not apply here. And since no one has advocated that your opinions should be publicly squashed (feel free to start picketing SAI at any time), there is no need for extremist rhetoric. IMO, I wouldn't chase you off the forum, but then again I don't own the site and have no say in the matter. Back to the point of this whole thread: I'm still trying to understand how you or others who have chimed in on your side feel disserviced by SAI. We've gone on ad nauseum about the historical marketing references, the alleged decision timeline, and many conjectures about what may or may not happen in the future. But the SGT is what it is for many reasons. Where is your problem? The only weak reference I've read in this thread was that if SAI would've shared their future product strategy (which no company in their right mind would do), then it may have affected their decision to buy the SGT and wait four (!) or more years for a possible GT350. (Please, no references to the GT500, that's for another forum.) Is there any tangible evidence that if SAI/SVT comes out with a GT350 in 2011+ it would adversely affect the value of your vehicle more than if they called it something else? Or is this strictly an emotional argument? -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mciarochi Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 ShelbyKindaGuy - I like my car. You like your car. Glad to hear that. I get a bit of a buzz from the fact that it's called a "Shelby", I confess. But if it were called a New Ford Pinto, I'd still think it was a great car, even if the name sucked. I drove a Ford Taurus SHO around for years. Untill the GT500, the Taurus was the fastest car I'd ever owned. Yup, a Taurus. So I know about the significance of names. I once beat a '68 Shelby GT350 with my '68 El Camino. I personally built that car from the ground up. I was (and am) very proud of that. I still drive my 1965 F-100 (620,000 miles). I can't even count how many engines have been put in that thing, I don't think there's a single stock part left on it other than the frame. I guess what I'm saying is that I was around then, and I'm around now. If "heritage, lineage, and honesty" is your thing, I guess that's okay. I've met and talked with, and happen to like Amy. I happen to like my car, and honestly don't really give a rat's turd about the cosmic significance of it's name, or really even where it came from. Because of this, you label me as one of those... "that get so caught up in the bedazzle with BS or their loyalties that they have developed a careless attitude toward knowing or revealing the truth even if it is not what they wish or know to be true." In my world, the "truth" is what happens when I step on the gas pedal, or hit the brakes, or turn the wheel. I take offense at you labelling me and others because we care more about the car than the name. I also take offense that you are contriving to insult the people who brought us these fine automobiles, and are continuing to provide more cars for a wider audience. You go over the line, sir, when you start to label and belittle people because they don't think like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 there you have it from amy..a gt350 is coming..i expect the gt350 as soon as the 5.0L is available......now all you whiner shelbyGT owners shut the hell up....you have a nice car...first damn real shelby built car in 40 mucking years..so go find a rock and pout....the worst that can happen is you trade off the SGT for a new gt350 with the 5.0L...that would be a trade up in my estimation...i will agree with those that do not take for face value problems associated with sai...i certainly agree with your position on that..however..at this point i have not seen sai do anything that i would consider market manipulation or the like (ok the hood scoop sucks and we all know that-so does sai).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFBLUE Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Wow! Ask for an official/true history and get it 2 hours and 32mins later. SAI may not make an official connection between the GT-H/SGT and the GT350H/GT350, but the similiarities in looks is what drew me to the SGT. The SGT will probably look more like the 1966 GT 350 than the new GT 350 will. I love my SGT, and as mentioned before, I've got the original classic Shelby GT (rather than a newer version of a 1960s Shelby classic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKindaGuy Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I take offense at you labelling me and others because we care more about the car than the name. I also take offense that you are contriving to insult the people who brought us these fine automobiles, and are continuing to provide more cars for a wider audience. You go over the line, sir, when you start to label and belittle people because they don't think like you. Give me a break and take a good long look in the nearest mirror, jacko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 When members start bickering back and forth and it seems to never end, that's when the threads get closed. I see this one going south soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyb Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Give me a break and take a good long look in the nearest mirror, jacko. wow, now with all the posts this was very telling. I think that with all the posts today you chose to answer this one.......is a good sign we close this, good call grabber Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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