mallofgeorgiainternetsales

[tsteff]

Here,here!

Theresa

[RUFDRAFT]

Okay - I'm not quite liqoured up enough to get into trouble here, so here's my brief take.

 

I think that Mustang Enthusiasts will not pay huge ADM's. I mean the kind of buyer that's been buying Mustangs over the years. They know better.

 

On the other hand, some people might sense an opportunity here to "flip" a Shelby and cash in. They are not Mustang people.

 

So let the sharp dressed salesmen and the dot.commers with deep pockets play their little games and brag to each other.

 

And we'll buy Mustangs at reasonable prices and drive them like they're built to be driven. Who wants a ride?

 

Y'all just make sure your belts are tight.

[PhantomAce]

Okay - I'm not quite liqoured up enough to get into trouble here, so here's my brief take.

 

I think that Mustang Enthusiasts will not pay huge ADM's. I mean the kind of buyer that's been buying Mustangs over the years. They know better.

 

On the other hand, some people might sense an opportunity here to "flip" a Shelby and cash in. They are not Mustang people.

 

So let the sharp dressed salesmen and the dot.commers with deep pockets play their little games and brag to each other.

 

And we'll buy Mustangs at reasonable prices and drive them like they're built to be driven. Who wants a ride?

 

Y'all just make sure your belts are tight.

 

Rufdraft, sent you a PM earlier, please get a look at it.

 

Mike.

[Guest evilchris]

Okay - I'm not quite liqoured up enough to get into trouble here, so here's my brief take.

 

I think that Mustang Enthusiasts will not pay huge ADM's. I mean the kind of buyer that's been buying Mustangs over the years. They know better.

 

On the other hand, some people might sense an opportunity here to "flip" a Shelby and cash in. They are not Mustang people.

 

So let the sharp dressed salesmen and the dot.commers with deep pockets play their little games and brag to each other.

 

And we'll buy Mustangs at reasonable prices and drive them like they're built to be driven. Who wants a ride?

 

Y'all just make sure your belts are tight.

 

 

It depresses me that the majority of buyers are probably not Mustang enthusiasts. I think they are "I wanna be the cool guy with the Shelby" people. Status symbol types.

 

Nearly every terminator out there is owned by an enthusiast, who wrenches on his car or pays someone to wrench on it, and drives the shit out of their car. The only mods most GT500's will see is wax jobs. Sad. BTW Carroll worshippers, Carroll disapproves of garage queens!

[carnut]

It depresses me that the majority of buyers are probably not Mustang enthusiasts. I think they are "I wanna be the cool guy with the Shelby" people. Status symbol types.

 

Nearly every terminator out there is owned by an enthusiast, who wrenches on his car or pays someone to wrench on it, and drives the shit out of their car. The only mods most GT500's will see is wax jobs. Sad. BTW Carroll worshippers, Carroll disapproves of garage queens!

 

Excuse me but I am working on an exhaust system deal right now for my GT 500, and I am working on the "list" of mods I plan to make. This time, next year, or sooner if I can, will have a well modded Shelby that will see some time at the track and some time on the road. By the way I do most of my own wrenching. Now, I admit I might dress a little funny in my garage but the tiara is not mine, no matter what you might of heard.

 

And there are a lot of buyers planning the same thing.

[Guest evilchris]

Excuse me but I am working on an exhaust system deal right now for my GT 500, and I am working on the "list" of mods I plan to make. This time, next year, or sooner if I can, will have a well modded Shelby that will see some time at the track and some time on the road. By the way I do most of my own wrenching. Now, I admit I might dress a little funny in my garage but the tiara is not mine, no matter what you might of heard.

 

And there are a lot of buyers planning the same thing.

 

 

I said "most"

[carnut]

I said "most"

 

I stand corrected,

[PhantomAce]

It depresses me that the majority of buyers are probably not Mustang enthusiasts. I think they are "I wanna be the cool guy with the Shelby" people. Status symbol types.

 

Nearly every terminator out there is owned by an enthusiast, who wrenches on his car or pays someone to wrench on it, and drives the shit out of their car. The only mods most GT500's will see is wax jobs. Sad. BTW Carroll worshippers, Carroll disapproves of garage queens!

 

EC:

I partially, repeat "PARTIALLY", fall into that category.

I had the good fortune to drive a 289 Cobra (1965, 2 seater, aluminum body, "real" Cobra) 1 time in my younger days.

I have been a Shelby fan all my teenage-present life.

Some of us just plan to buy the car, and drive the snot out of it, but will not mod it.

My reason: I see clients EVERY day, and I need a clean, reliable, respectable ride. I won't get away with "Gee, I'm late for my meeting, sorry, I just sucked a valve" when I am making 6 to 7 figure deals.

If you knew me, and knew what I did for a living, you would understand.

I have, however, driven a REAL Shelby, and if you want to truly nit-pick, even the Shelby Mustangs of the 60's don't even come close.

Then again, the Shelby I drove was actually an AC car that Shelby modified, so maybe it doesn't count either?

If that's the case, is there even such a thing as a "true" Shelby?

 

We all want these cars, and the Shelby name matters for most of us, in varying degrees.

Do us all a small favor, don't rain on our parades. We're all a little tired of the grief we're going through just to get our cars from the dealerships at this point, would be nice if you didn't add to it.

Appreciate it for what t's worth, please, and don't add to the PSDS.

 

I like your posts, but please lose at least some of the negativity.

 

Thanks.

 

Mike.

[carnut]

EC:

I partially, repeat "PARTIALLY", fall into that category.

I had the good fortune to drive a 289 Cobra (1965, 2 seater, aluminum body, "real" Cobra) 1 time in my younger days.

I have been a Shelby fan all my teenage-present life.

Some of us just plan to buy the car, and drive the snot out of it, but will not mod it.

My reason: I see clients EVERY day, and I need a clean, reliable, respectable ride. I won't get away with "Gee, I'm late for my meeting, sorry, I just sucked a valve" when I am making 6 to 7 figure deals.

If you knew me, and knew what I did for a living, you would understand.

I have, however, driven a REAL Shelby, and if you want to truly nit-pick, even the Shelby Mustangs of the 60's don't even come close.

Then again, the Shelby I drove was actually an AC car that Shelby modified, so maybe it doesn't count either?

If that's the case, is there even such a thing as a "true" Shelby?

 

We all want these cars, and the Shelby name matters for most of us, in varying degrees.

Do us all a small favor, don't rain on our parades. We're all a little tired of the grief we're going through just to get our cars from the dealerships at this point, would be nice if you didn't add to it.

Appreciate it for what t's worth, please, and don't add to the PSDS.

 

I like your posts, but please lose at least some of the negativity.

 

Thanks.

 

Mike.

 

So Mike, no mods at all, not even minor ones that would improve the driveability/reliability? Like may a driveshaft if indeed it becomes a real issue. Just curious.

[Guest evilchris]

So Mike, no mods at all, not even minor ones that would improve the driveability/reliability? Like may a driveshaft if indeed it becomes a real issue. Just curious.

 

 

Driveshaft, tune, and LCA's are mandatory mods on this car imo...

 

All are easily changed back out to stock if needed. What's the point of 500HP if you can't ground it. Tune that rear suspension...

[PhantomAce]

So Mike, no mods at all, not even minor ones that would improve the driveability/reliability? Like may a driveshaft if indeed it becomes a real issue. Just curious.

 

Will probably add an aftermarket satellite radio (deleted from both of my orders due to antenna aesthetics).

May do headers and exhaust at a MUCH later date.

MIGHT do a tune for a little more power (did this to my F-150).

But...

I have NO intentions of doing anything in the short term that may affect driveability and/or warranty.

I WILL drive this car constantly. I put 100k on my F-150 in the first 4 years, it's just been "semi-retired" the last 5 or 6.

I need reliability, and want fun while I'm between meetings.

If I want to "mod" a car to the point that it can't be a daily driver, I think my 45 year old Ford is out of warranty by now, and I am doing plenty of mods to it, unless you think I should leave the 98hp straight 6 in it.

In other words, NO, nothing substantial in the short term.

 

Mike.

[carnut]

Will probably add an aftermarket satellite radio (deleted from both of my orders due to antenna aesthetics).

May do headers and exhaust at a MUCH later date.

MIGHT do a tune for a little more power (did this to my F-150).

But...

I have NO intentions of doing anything in the short term that may affect driveability and/or warranty.

I WILL drive this car constantly. I put 100k on my F-150 in the first 4 years, it's just been "semi-retired" the last 5 or 6.

I need reliability, and want fun while I'm between meetings.

If I want to "mod" a car to the point that it can't be a daily driver, I think my 45 year old Ford is out of warranty by now, and I am doing plenty of mods to it, unless you think I should leave the 98hp straight 6 in it.

In other words, NO, nothing substantial in the short term.

 

Mike.

 

Sound thinking. I still have my 99 Lightning, did exhaust, CAI, and little nitrous. I have nearly 100,000 miles on it and it still runs like new, not a wimper out of it. Its a daily driver and has never let me down. Those SVT guys did a great job. I try to keep my mods so that they adversely affect the reliability of the car. Besides who wants to have to put a new engine in every 30k?

 

Sound thinking. I still have my 99 Lightning, did exhaust, CAI, and little nitrous. I have nearly 100,000 miles on it and it still runs like new, not a wimper out of it. Its a daily driver and has never let me down. Those SVT guys did a great job. I try to keep my mods so that they don't adversely affect the reliability of the car. Besides who wants to have to put a new engine in every 30k?

 

Sorry, had to correct the dont

[PhantomAce]

Sound thinking. I still have my 99 Lightning, did exhaust, CAI, and little nitrous. I have nearly 100,000 miles on it and it still runs like new, not a wimper out of it. Its a daily driver and has never let me down. Those SVT guys did a great job. I try to keep my mods so that they adversely affect the reliability of the car. Besides who wants to have to put a new engine in every 30k?

Sorry, had to correct the dont

 

Exactly.

I'd rather DRIVE the car with 500hp for 5 or 6 years and have a ball and know it will get me from a - z. than be under the hood or on a creeper fixing it every weekend at considerable expense because I HAD to have 600hp.

This is a STREET CAR, not a Garage car (waiting for repairs, or stored waiting to make money on some future collector).

Know what I mean?

 

Mike.

[Guest evilchris]

Exactly.

I'd rather DRIVE the car with 500hp for 5 or 6 years and have a ball and know it will get me from a - z. than be under the hood or on a creeper fixing it every weekend at considerable expense because I HAD to have 600hp.

This is a STREET CAR, not a Garage car (waiting for repairs, or stored waiting to make money on some future collector).

Know what I mean?

 

Mike.

 

 

600 crank HP ( since you mentioned 500HP, which is crank ) terminators are very reliable and streetable.

 

PhantomAce:

 

This should be your 1st mod imo:

 

http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/BigBore/BigBore.html

[KCMO-GT500]

I believe they prefer the term 'Appalachian-American'

 

 

 

I'm sorry I missed out on this exchange.

 

And for what its worth, I'm proud to be a Missouri Ozark Hillbilly; can't even spell that A-A word up above.

 

 

When we hicks sell our 'shine to them there yankees out in the flatlands, we jack up the price once and make a damn fine profit.

 

We don't sell it to each other, and jack up the price each time, before selling it to them there yankees; that would be raping them, and would make us "sleazy" Almost as bad as some of them there car broker types

[RUFDRAFT]

And I'm proud to be an Oke from Miskogee - (sp?) - place where even squares can have a ball!

 

Sing it Merle!

 

Who used the term hillbilly?

 

I'll fuel up the Huey if I have to. And we have some .50 cal ammo left over.

 

Get me some GPS numbers, men.

[tsteff]

And I'm proud to be an Oke from Miskogee - (sp?) - place where even squares can have a ball!

 

Sing it Merle!

 

Who used the term hillbilly?

 

I'll fuel up the Huey if I have to. And we have some .50 cal ammo left over.

 

Get me some GPS numbers, men.

 

 

 

Quoting LONESTARFORD

"Mall of Georgia is a legitiment dealership. They purchased 2 Mustang GTs from me off ebaY.

Just because dealers use ebaY as a source to purchase "Niche" cars of the moment doesn't make them sleazy. It makes them intelligent you "Hill-Billy".

 

I am tired of people direspecting dealers in forums.

 

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean its wrong."

 

I tried to tell him we don't like that accusation here in the south,

Theresa

[carnut]

Sheet yall.

 

Yall disrespecting that feller agin, he might never wanna come on back y'hear

[Guest evilchris]

Sheet yall.

 

Yall disrespecting that feller agin, he might never wanna come on back y'hear

 

 

You know what's sad? We're laughing at him, but he's making $2000 commision or so on every person he rips off for a GT500. $2,000 for doing nothing.

[carnut]

You know what's sad? We're laughing at him, but he's making $2000 commision or so on every person he rips off for a GT500. $2,000 for doing nothing.

 

Well then he can afford to have fun poked at him :happy feet:

[ratnacage]

 

A) It is theoretically possible for these cars to be sold by dealers only to dealers in the beginning, it is also possible for multiple dealerships to make money on the same car.

B) This is occurring already, by your own admission, as YOU (Lonestar) have already been paid an ADM by Mall of Georgia. They, will then add that cost as well as another ADM to their price of the car.

C) If another dealer buys from M of G, they will pay a second ADM and then add THEIR ADM to it.

D) End user pays 3 ADM's, and 3 different dealers made several thousand dollars on the SAME car, and at the same time, the dealership has a FALSE justification to feed the end user.

"Gee, look, this car went for XXX, were not asking a ridiculous price."

 

Mike.

 

 

These are very good points, and bring up equally interesting issues.

 

On any given day, the availability and demand, and therefore market value for these cars is constant. For example, if today there are 500 cars available and 1000 people want them today, then the market value is X. Note that the cost basis for the dealer is completely independent of this equation.

 

If suppliers (dealers) sell amongst themselves, then the cost basis of that inventory rises with each transaction. If the market value remains at a level sufficient to allow for profit, then there is very little risk to the dealer, and no impact on the end-user (recall that cost basis has little or nothing to do with market value). Thus in this scenario, the only real impact is a little less profit for the dealer that bought the inventory with ADM.

 

However, fresh supply is being added (increasing) daily, therefore, assuming that demand is roughly the same, market value will decrease proportionately. Here inlies the risk for the dealer paying an ADM. He is incurring increasing costs in a falling market. To put it in stock market terms, he is buying high with the very real risk of having to sell low. If this practice were wide spread, you could theoretically wind up with a situation where everyone's cost basis was at or above market value, and this is a very, very bad situation to be in for everyone, including the consumer. It's bad for the dealer because there is little to no profit margin, and it's bad for the consumer because the market becomes more cost driven rather than supply/demand driven. In any economy, this situation is always disasterous. While I have argued that ADM's don't kill markets, it is entirely possible to kill a market with ADM's if it's the suppliers incurring the costs because then they can't afford to sell at market price, thus supply builds up, demand falls more, and orders to the factory decrease. bad, bad, bad

 

Ok, now the reality is that this practice is not wide spread, and most dealers would be wise not to pay ADM's unless they have a buyer locked in for that vehicle already.

 

NOTE: I'll clarify as the debate heats up because it's late and I'm not going to proof read the minor thesis I just wrote.

[RUFDRAFT]

Get laid. :bandance:

 

 

Sorry.

[carnut]

Get laid. :bandance:

Sorry.

 

Wish I could :tequila:

[towsurfmonkey]

I won't go into the whole "ADM" from ORIGINAL dealer discussion here, but I DO see a serious problem with dealers selling to each other in this situation that DOES make the transaction/end result VERY sleazy:

 

A) It is theoretically possible for these cars to be sold by dealers only to dealers in the beginning, it is also possible for multiple dealerships to make money on the same car.

B) This is occurring already, by your own admission, as YOU (Lonestar) have already been paid an ADM by Mall of Georgia. They, will then add that cost as well as another ADM to their price of the car.

C) If another dealer buys from M of G, they will pay a second ADM and then add THEIR ADM to it.

D) End user pays 3 ADM's, and 3 different dealers made several thousand dollars on the SAME car, and at the same time, the dealership has a FALSE justification to feed the end user.

"Gee, look, this car went for XXX, were not asking a ridiculous price."

 

This is sleazy, unethical, and flat-out BS I don't care how you slice it.

 

Therefore, do us ALL a favor and stay off our boards if you can't even be honest and admit that there is blatant and unfair profiteering by dealerships, like you, going on when more than 1 dealership has their hand in the cookie jar on the sale of one car.

If you were all splitting the profit made when the car was sold at MSRP it would be different, but that is clearly not the case. I highly doubt any of you would even bother doing this if you could only make a couple thousand extra on the car either. You are making MANY thousands of dollars EVERY time ONE of you touches the car, and that is crap.

 

We all want these cars, and some of us believe an INITIAL ADM is reasonable (myself included) if you agreed to it at time of order/sale, but I don't think anyone can make a case for multiple dealers making ridiculous money off the backs of the working people that were promised an "Affordable" performance Mustang when this car was announced.

 

Ford made it clear that these cars were not to be "Brokered", but that is exactly what you are doing, and it is wrong, and you KNOW it, whether you choose to admit it or not. Do you think that we are all that ignorant?

 

Keep your insults to yourself, and off of this board, we don't need you here, and frankly, I hope these tactices bite you hard and you lose every customer you have over your unethical tactics.

 

Mike.

 

 

 

AMEN!!

[CobraCrazy]

AMEN!!

 

 

+1

[68fastback]

These are very good points, and bring up equally interesting issues.

 

On any given day, the availability and demand, and therefore market value for these cars is constant. For example, if today there are 500 cars available and 1000 people want them today, then the market value is X. Note that the cost basis for the dealer is completely independent of this equation.

 

If suppliers (dealers) sell amongst themselves, then the cost basis of that inventory rises with each transaction. If the market value remains at a level sufficient to allow for profit, then there is very little risk to the dealer, and no impact on the end-user (recall that cost basis has little or nothing to do with market value). Thus in this scenario, the only real impact is a little less profit for the dealer that bought the inventory with ADM.

 

However, fresh supply is being added (increasing) daily, therefore, assuming that demand is roughly the same, market value will decrease proportionately. Here inlies the risk for the dealer paying an ADM. He is incurring increasing costs in a falling market. To put it in stock market terms, he is buying high with the very real risk of having to sell low. If this practice were wide spread, you could theoretically wind up with a situation where everyone's cost basis was at or above market value, and this is a very, very bad situation to be in for everyone, including the consumer. It's bad for the dealer because there is little to no profit margin, and it's bad for the consumer because the market becomes more cost driven rather than supply/demand driven. In any economy, this situation is always disasterous. While I have argued that ADM's don't kill markets, it is entirely possible to kill a market with ADM's if it's the suppliers incurring the costs because then they can't afford to sell at market price, thus supply builds up, demand falls more, and orders to the factory decrease. bad, bad, bad

 

Ok, now the reality is that this practice is not wide spread, and most dealers would be wise not to pay ADM's unless they have a buyer locked in for that vehicle already.

 

NOTE: I'll clarify as the debate heats up because it's late and I'm not going to proof read the minor thesis I just wrote.

 

I'm good with most of this, Rat, except what I highlighted in blue above because the dealer isn't actually the supplier. In a true market economy, like the stock market example you gave, those who bought high would get stuck with the shares if they insisted on a high offering price after the market had devalued the shares. The seller (delaer) would have no choice but to take a lower price if they wanted to sell. But since dealers insert themselves betw the true supplier and the true buyer, they attempt to 'create' an artificial price when it is not actually supportable by the true market forces of demand and supply since they manipulate the supply -- VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE STOCK MARKET'S TRUE MARKET MODEL.

 

If you don't think that's true, consider what would happen in the situation you accurately constructed where the market value falls below the price the dealer paid (Ford price + transfer dealer's ADM). If customers could buy directly from the actual supplier, no customer would pay the dealer's inflated price because, as you said, the market value had fallen below supply cost (supply cost = actual + transfer-ADM1 +selling dealer ADM). In a true market economy it would not be bad-bad-bad (Ford-dealer-customer). It would be good-bad-good, because the delaer would be forced to sell at the true market value in a true market scenario (like the stock market).

 

In the stock market there is no artificial middleman that controls price. Yes, there are brokers, but they are ethically bound to merely take a transaction fee. Maybe this is how the auto industry ought to be.

 

If Ford sold online directly to the customer and the dealer received a fee for prep and delivery (whatever works financially), then it becomes a competitive customer-service game based on excellence and customer-value and not woosha-boosha, crystal-ball, deceitfull, max-extraction, lease-gaming, payment-packing, finance terms swapping, ADM-gamesmanship pricing (not saying you do this, but it's done for sure).

 

So, I think Phantom's 'ADM-stacking' comments are valid insomuch as the car buying environment is actually not a true market environment -- it's artificially constrained and manipulated by a middleman 'dealer' whose goal is [often] to explicitly frustrate the true free-market economic forces that would otherwise apply. I think that is where his and many others frustration comes from. It's not about can/can't afford, it's about right and wrong, reasonable and unreasonable, ethical and unethical, honest and dishonest. And that middleman is fundamentally different from 'distributing' middlemen in other industries where the buyer can source from multiple sources. If you want a Ford you can only get it from a Ford dealer. If I want to buy XYZ stock, I can buy it from any broker. Hmmm, maybe there's a second marketing model in there that would work for autos too. Dunno, have to think about it more.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

JETSOLVER had posted a link recently to this 10-part outstanding expose called Confession of a Car Salesman done for Edmonds.com. It's a mandatory read (long) for anyone who wants to understand the 'game' and they don't even cover ADMs -- but they do cover most of the [deplorable] practices and how to prepare for buying any car from any dealer (excellently written too).

 

.

[carnut]

Kinda takes the fun outta buying a car, doesn't it. I am so grateful to my dealer, I just said I wanted it, they sold it to me, no bs, no turnover, no adds, and a whole lot of courtesy. Of course it has been a 30 year relationship and I expect that that will continue for as long as the ownership/management remains the same.

 

It's too bad it's not a first come, first served relationship and that your word is your word in this world doesnt seem to apply. I gotta tell you that those trust relationships that do work mean an awful lot. These crazy ADM's and sleeze seem to overshadow that fact.

 

There are still some good guys out there, that the last penny does not mean everything, and that good relationships do mean something

 

I'm done, thanks

[CobraCrazy]

I'm good with most of this, Rat, except what I highlighted in blue above because the dealer isn't actually the supplier. In a true market economy, like the stock market example you gave, those who bought high would get stuck with the shares if they insisted on a high offering price after the market had devalued the shares. The seller (delaer) would have no choice but to take a lower price if they wanted to sell. But since dealers insert themselves betw the true supplier and the true buyer, they attempt to 'create' an artificial price when it is not actually supportable by the true market forces of demand and supply since they manipulate the supply -- VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE STOCK MARKET'S TRUE MARKET MODEL.

 

If you don't think that's true, consider what would happen in the situation you accurately constructed where the market value falls below the price the dealer paid (Ford price + transfer dealer's ADM). If customers could buy directly from the actual supplier, no customer would pay the dealer's inflated price because, as you said, the market value had fallen below supply cost (supply cost = actual + transfer-ADM1 +selling dealer ADM). In a true market economy it would not be bad-bad-bad (Ford-dealer-customer). It would be good-bad-good, because the delaer would be forced to sell at the true market value in a true market scenario (like the stock market).

 

In the stock market there is no artificial middleman that controls price. Yes, there are brokers, but they are ethically bound to merely take a transaction fee. Maybe this is how the auto industry ought to be.

 

If Ford sold online directly to the customer and the dealer received a fee for prep and delivery (whatever works financially), then it becomes a competitive customer-service game based on excellence and customer-value and not woosha-boosha, crystal-ball, deceitfull, max-extraction, lease-gaming, payment-packing, finance terms swapping, ADM-gamesmanship pricing (not saying you do this, but it's done for sure).

 

So, I think Phantom's 'ADM-stacking' comments are valid insomuch as the car buying environment is actually not a true market environment -- it's artificially constrained and manipulated by a middleman 'dealer' whose goal is [often] to explicitly frustrate the true free-market economic forces that would otherwise apply. I think that is where his and many others frustration comes from. It's not about can/can't afford, it's about right and wrong, reasonable and unreasonable, ethical and unethical, honest and dishonest. And that middleman is fundamentally different from 'distributing' middlemen in other industries where the buyer can source from multiple sources. If you want a Ford you can only get it from a Ford dealer. If I want to buy XYZ stock, I can buy it from any broker. Hmmm, maybe there's a second marketing model in there that would work for autos too. Dunno, have to think about it more.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

JETSOLVER had posted a link recently to this 10-part outstanding expose called Confession of a Car Salesman done for Edmonds.com. It's a mandatory read (long) for anyone who wants to understand the 'game' and they don't even cover ADMs -- but they do cover most of the [deplorable] practices and how to prepare for buying any car from any dealer (excellently written too).

 

.

 

An especially thoughtful and worthwhile post 68fastback!

[68fastback]

Kinda takes the fun outta buying a car, doesn't it. I am so grateful to my dealer, I just said I wanted it, they sold it to me, no bs, no turnover, no adds, and a whole lot of courtesy. Of course it has been a 30 year relationship and I expect that that will continue for as long as the ownership/management remains the same.

 

It's too bad it's not a first come, first served relationship and that your word is your word in this world doesnt seem to apply. I gotta tell you that those trust relationships that do work mean an awful lot. These crazy ADM's and sleeze seem to overshadow that fact.

 

There are still some good guys out there, that the last penny does not mean everything, and that good relationships do mean something

 

I'm done, thanks

 

+1 and Amen ...our local dealer is similar. They're charging $5K ADM for all 8 GT500s even though they have offers ranging from MSRP to $25K+ over -- and over 50 of the offers exceed the $5K ADM. I admire their honesty as I admire your dealer too. As usual, the 'bad' ones get all the attention, but the good ones will have my business and yours for the rest of our lives; even if I can get a a couple hundred better deal in a big city on a Fusion or an F-series, I'll buy it all locally because they've earned my respect and their prices are close enough.

 

Somehow the 'bad' dealers don't seem to value that loyalty. Maybe 'loyalty' and 'exploitation' are mutually exclusive terms in a given value-system.

.

[RUFDRAFT]

Did somebody say something about a thesis? :bandance: