Five Oh B gets blown...

[Five Oh B]

Quick hijack! Grab - are you sure you can park all those Mustangs on your lawn?

 

Ruf, our wives did a great job telling us how & where to park at last year's Meet & Great, so with a year's experience under their belt, the wives are up to the challange of a "few" extra ponies this year!

[Five Oh B]

Yes.

 

I will be playing with the layout on some graph paper next week.

 

Hey, Rob, now that I'm in the boosted club, can I sit at the grown ups table this time? The thought of sitting at the kids table again is getting to me.

[RUFDRAFT]

I don't have the "whine" of a twin-screw. But it screams above 4k! You can hear a whistle at idle, though.

[RUFDRAFT]

Ruf, our wives did a great job telling us how & where to park at last year's Meet & Great, so with a year's experience under their belt, the wives are up to the challange of a "few" extra ponies this year!

I predict 60 minutes of "arranging" the cars!

[Five Oh B]

I predict 60 minutes of "arranging" the cars!

 

That would be an improvement over last year. See, that prior experience will come in handy! Also, Ruf, keep in mind that the ladies didn't just arrange them so they were lined up straight and even, but also by colors. The slow colors (i.e. orange, white, red) were put up front, while the fast colors (i.e. alloy gray & black) were banished to the back of the line (perhaps so the slow cars could get a head start when we left for the drive?). Either way, we had a blast and wouldn't miss this one for anything.

[RStangsOC]

Forgive me for such a dirty car; it's been raining today, I'm at work, and I was in a hurry to at least take a couple quick pics....

 

 

 

Hey Brian,

 

Will have to check for sure at work on Monday - but Rumor has it that the AP Racing 4 piston kit will fit behind those Fan Blades

 

Thanks for sharing the pic. Now to provide me with a ride

 

Page

[90GT]

It's done! Fuel injectors arrived late this morning, and went on quickly. I installed the supplied tune from Vortech, and modified it for the 4.10 gears and tire height. Unfortunately, I can't change the redline with the supplied tuner, so I'm stuck at 6,000 rpm shift points. I had them set at 6,500 rpm's before, so I hit the dang rev limiter a dozen times on the quick test drive I had with the technician riding shotgun. Gonna have to have a custom tune written to address that.

 

I'm still at work for a few hours, so I only had a 5 minute test drive, but wow, this car is so very different now. Revs so fast and blasts through the gears like a 2-stroke motocrosser. The stall converter appears to be flashing much higher, as expected, so the tach stays between about 4,800 and 6,000 rpm's at WOT. Power comes on linearly and builds as rpm's rise, but with only about 1,200 rpm's of spread, it's hard to quantify with so little seat time. Definitely gotta raise the redline and shift points, and possibly consider a smaller stall converter.

 

Tire spin is ugly now. I think I'll switchover to my racing setup for awhile (17 inch Bullitts with drag radials). I'll post some pics after I'm off work and get the car cleaned up. Might be a day or two as I'm working all weekend, but pictures will follow....

 

Thanks to all for the encouragement, advice, and well-wishes. Special thanks again to Page at Stillen who exemplifies what great customer service is all about. His follow up and helpfulness is second to none.

 

 

 

Nice Brian!!!

 

I see you finally decided to go the FI route. With these motors FI is the way to go. By the time you add up all the parts needed to get any decent power NA, you could paid for a blower kit and then some.

 

A few questions for you (and Ruf). At what RPM does the boost start coming in ??? I like the low end torque of a roots type blower but I imagine you can get better gas milage with the Vortech if you keep your foot out of the boost.

[Grabber]

That would be an improvement over last year. See, that prior experience will come in handy! Also, Ruf, keep in mind that the ladies didn't just arrange them so they were lined up straight and even, but also by colors. The slow colors (i.e. orange, white, red) were put up front, while the fast colors (i.e. alloy gray & black) were banished to the back of the line (perhaps so the slow cars could get a head start when we left for the drive?). Either way, we had a blast and wouldn't miss this one for anything.

 

The car arrangement will be pre-planned and on a drawing and when you arrive, your spot will be laid out in the field, or in your case, you will be parking in the street with the V-6 rental cars.

[RUFDRAFT]

Nice Brian!!!

 

I see you finally decided to go the FI route. With these motors FI is the way to go. By the time you add up all the parts needed to get any decent power NA, you could paid for a blower kit and then some.

 

A few questions for you (and Ruf). At what RPM does the boost start coming in ??? I like the low end torque of a roots type blower but I imagine you can get better gas milage with the Vortech if you keep your foot out of the boost.

It's Vette/Mustang Boy!!

 

On level ground, with the cruise set at 60mph, I show 30-31 mpg!! :happy feet:

 

When I pull the trigger, though........

[90GT]

It's Vette/Mustang Boy!!

 

On level ground, with the cruise set at 60mph, I show 30-31 mpg!! :happy feet:

 

When I pull the trigger, though........

 

 

Those are some very good mpg numbers for the power that your car is making. I think that's the main advantage to your set up vs say a Saleen. At what rpm does the boost start coming in on your car??? I'd be happy with the boost coming in around 2500 rpm.

 

 

I'm kind of torn as to which set up to get. I like the instant boost of a Saleen type blower but want the mpg that yours gives.

[RUFDRAFT]

I can feel it start to really pull at about 3500.

 

Price both type of blowers. Mine was about $1k less than a KB. (both intercooled and polished)

[90GT]

I can feel it start to really pull at about 3500.

 

Price both type of blowers. Mine was about $1k less than a KB. (both intercooled and polished)

 

See that's too high in the rpm range for my taste. I want the boost to come in lower, like around 2500 rpms.

 

I'm looking at either the base intercooled Saleen kit or a Paxton. What's the peak boost on your set up???

[RUFDRAFT]

See that's too high in the rpm range for my taste. I want the boost to come in lower, like around 2500 rpms.

 

I'm looking at either the base intercooled Saleen kit or a Paxton. What's the peak boost on your set up???

With a centrifigal, boost increases with RPM's. I'm at 6350 now - and that's 9lbs. He said he could turn it up to 6500 safely, but I like to be conservative.

[Five Oh B]

Hey Brian,

 

Will have to check for sure at work on Monday - but Rumor has it that the AP Racing 4 piston kit will fit behind those Fan Blades

 

Thanks for sharing the pic. Now to provide me with a ride

 

Page

 

Hi, Page! I was on Stillen's website yesterday pouring over the different braking options. The AP's are a bit rich for my blood right now after talking my wife out of supercharger money, but the 1-piece factory sized rotors (cross drilled and slotted look awesome) and Hawk street pads caught my attention. I don't road race or autocross my car, but sure need more brakes to go with the supercharger. It's amazing how much faster the car is with the blower, and how bad the stock brakes are, which is even more apparent with the added power than before.

 

You know I'll look you up next time I'm anywhere near you. Haven't been to California for a couple of years, so it's hard to know when I'll be there again (especially with the Mustang).

[Five Oh B]

The car arrangement will be pre-planned and on a drawing and when you arrive, your spot will be laid out in the field, or in your case, you will be parking in the street with the V-6 rental cars.

 

I saw that coming! I guess that's appropriate as I've dumbed down the exterior of my car to look more and more like a V6 model. I guess if I'm on the street I'll get a headstart for the drive to Multnomah Falls. Hope you can keep up with me!

[90GT]

With a centrifigal, boost increases with RPM's. I'm at 6350 now - and that's 9lbs. He said he could turn it up to 6500 safely, but I like to be conservative.

 

 

9 lbs is a nice safe level. Your's is intercooled, correct ???

 

Check out these two dyno graphs. One is a standard Saleen kit (4 lbs boost) on a 06 Mustang and the other is a Procharger HO kit (9 - 10 lbs boost). Both kits are intercooled. The Procharger has 300 ft lbs of torque at 3000 rpm and over 350 ft lbs at 3500 rpm. The Saleen never breaks the 400 ft lbs mark.

 

 

 

One could argue that you could increase the boost on the Saleen but I wouldn't do that on either kit. My point is from these graphs it appears the Procharger gives a similar torque curve as the Saleen but probably better gas milage when kept out of the boost.

[Five Oh B]

Nice Brian!!!

 

I see you finally decided to go the FI route. With these motors FI is the way to go. By the time you add up all the parts needed to get any decent power NA, you could paid for a blower kit and then some.

 

A few questions for you (and Ruf). At what RPM does the boost start coming in ??? I like the low end torque of a roots type blower but I imagine you can get better gas milage with the Vortech if you keep your foot out of the boost.

 

Hey Jim - thanks! I spent a lot of time agonizing over which system to go with. It all came down to matching components that work well together in the same rpm range.

 

That said, while I would have loved the instant low-rpm boost that a roots or twinscrew make, those just wouldn't have matched my set up of 4.10 gears and huge stall converter. So, considering that my converter instantly flashes to over 4,000 rpm's, I needed a blower that worked best from 4,000 to 7,000 rpm's, and that would be a centrifugal. I looked at a lot of dyno graphs for roots, ts, and centri's and all things held equal (including boost), the roots and ts's make more low end grunt, but the centri's take over past 4,000 or 4,500 rpm's. If I had taller gearing and a stock converter I would have gone with a roots blower (lower price vs twinscrew, while better power at low rpm's vs centri). Money no object, I would have done a twin screw and dialed back gearing and stall speed to match. However, I didn't want to undo mods I already made, so I went with the blower to match my combo the best.

 

Gotta say - the Vortech is sneaky fast! It doesn't fell fast (as the boost is always building with rpm's), but the tach, shifting, and speedo tell a different story. Plus, the same roads I've been driving for years are now much shorter than I remember and my brakes are not nearly enough to deal with the huge performance gain under the hood!

 

Also, a centrifugal supposedly is easier on the engine as boost builds with rpm's instead of hammering right off the bat, so long term durability is supposedly better with the centrifugals. Considering my 4.6L has factory stock internals, that was a big consideration.

 

I much prefer the look of a roots or twinscrew sitting on top of the engine versus the hairdryer hanging off the front of the engine, but my car is function over form, so I had to go with the right piece for my puzzle, so to speak.

 

My gas mileage is horrible right now. I will be ordering a custom tune tomorrow for my car that will likely increase mileage while simultaneously upping power and fixing minor details like redline, shiftpoints, and shift firmness. With Vortech's supplied (and very conservative) tune, I'm seeing 20 mpg on cruise control at 65 mph, and about 12-13 mpg in town. Keep in mind that my stall converter flashes to much higher rpm's than most people would drive around town, and that triggers boost in the blower more often, so that's the biggest reason for the poor city mileage (and somewhat on the highway). As always: "your mileage may vary."

[shel-b001]

Quick question what is the red -line of a 4.6? I thought 5,700 r.p.m was there limit.

[RStangsOC]

Hi, Page! I was on Stillen's website yesterday pouring over the different braking options. The AP's are a bit rich for my blood right now after talking my wife out of supercharger money, but the 1-piece factory sized rotors (cross drilled and slotted look awesome) and Hawk street pads caught my attention. I don't road race or autocross my car, but sure need more brakes to go with the supercharger. It's amazing how much faster the car is with the blower, and how bad the stock brakes are, which is even more apparent with the added power than before.

 

Hey there,

 

 

 

How about a group purchase for non GT500 setups? The package includes Stillen Rotors, Stillen Metal Matrix Pads, and Goodridge Lines. I will post this in the Shelby GT section also. Here your options:

 

Brake Package XDS: $772.97

 

Front and Rear Stillen Cross-Drilled & Slotted Rotors

Front and Rear Stillen MM Pads

Front and Rear Goodridge S.S. Braided Brake Lines

 

Brake Package XD: $730.21

 

Front and Rear Stillen Cross-Drilled Brake Rotors

Front and Rear Stillen MM Pads

Front and Rear Goodridge S.S. Braided Brake Lines

 

Brake Package S: $772.97

 

Front and Rear Stillen Slotted Brake Rotors

Front and Rear Stillen MM Pads

Font and Rear Goodridge S.S. Braided Brake Lines

 

Shipping is INCLUDED (lower 48 states – plus there is a $9.95 Insurance and Handling fee for each order)!!! No substitutions. This will be available until the end of the month.

 

 

 

I will pull something together for the GT500 guys on Monday morning – and will post that here also.

 

Thanks Much

 

 

 

Page

[RUFDRAFT]

[Five Oh B]

Quick question what is the red -line of a 4.6? I thought 5,700 r.p.m was there limit.

 

Mine says 6,000 rpm's and fuel cutoff hits at about 6,250 from the looks of it. There is still some power to be had up to about 6,500 rpm's with a stock 4.6L 3V.

[Five Oh B]

Hey there, How about a group purchase for non GT500 setups? The package includes Stillen Rotors, Stillen Metal Matrix Pads, and Goodridge Lines.

 

Brake Package XDS: $772.97

 

Front and Rear Stillen Cross-Drilled & Slotted Rotors

Front and Rear Stillen MM Pads

Front and Rear Goodridge S.S. Braided Brake Lines

 

This is basically what I was considering - the XDS rotors with better pads and new SS lines. Now I gotta convince my wife that I "have to" have better brakes now. I'm assuming these are the 1-piece rotors which would be fine for my car.

[Five Oh B]

Now that the blower install is done, we're trying to figure out the labor charges that I will pay to our shop. As I work at a dealership and had our shop do the install, I get a huge break on labor rates. However, this was their first aftermarket blower install (although they've done plenty of work on Terminators, Lightnings, and even Ford GT's). They couldn't quote beforehand how many hours the job would take as I was their guinea pig, so we're negotiating it now that it's done.

 

HELP!!!

 

Vortech's website says most of their supercharger kits take 7-12 hours. The system I have is not intercooled, so that eliminates some of the complexity of the install (no bumper removal, no plumbing for an intercooler, etc.). However, our tech put 20 hours into the install as this was his first Vortech install. He took his time to be sure he did it right the first time, and the install was clean. He deserves to be paid for his hard work, but he went way over on labor time. Any opinions on what is fair to both parties?

[RUFDRAFT]

Tough one, Brian.

 

I'm a "split the difference" kind of guy!

 

I think I paid for 12 hours on the intercooled install.

 

How about 10 hours? (and a bottle of Grey Goose?) The tech gets some experience, and you get a break?

[90GT]

Hey Jim - thanks! I spent a lot of time agonizing over which system to go with. It all came down to matching components that work well together in the same rpm range.

 

That said, while I would have loved the instant low-rpm boost that a roots or twinscrew make, those just wouldn't have matched my set up of 4.10 gears and huge stall converter. So, considering that my converter instantly flashes to over 4,000 rpm's, I needed a blower that worked best from 4,000 to 7,000 rpm's, and that would be a centrifugal. I looked at a lot of dyno graphs for roots, ts, and centri's and all things held equal (including boost), the roots and ts's make more low end grunt, but the centri's take over past 4,000 or 4,500 rpm's. If I had taller gearing and a stock converter I would have gone with a roots blower (lower price vs twinscrew, while better power at low rpm's vs centri). Money no object, I would have done a twin screw and dialed back gearing and stall speed to match. However, I didn't want to undo mods I already made, so I went with the blower to match my combo the best.

 

Gotta say - the Vortech is sneaky fast! It doesn't fell fast (as the boost is always building with rpm's), but the tach, shifting, and speedo tell a different story. Plus, the same roads I've been driving for years are now much shorter than I remember and my brakes are not nearly enough to deal with the huge performance gain under the hood!

 

Also, a centrifugal supposedly is easier on the engine as boost builds with rpm's instead of hammering right off the bat, so long term durability is supposedly better with the centrifugals. Considering my 4.6L has factory stock internals, that was a big consideration.

 

I much prefer the look of a roots or twinscrew sitting on top of the engine versus the hairdryer hanging off the front of the engine, but my car is function over form, so I had to go with the right piece for my puzzle, so to speak.

 

My gas mileage is horrible right now. I will be ordering a custom tune tomorrow for my car that will likely increase mileage while simultaneously upping power and fixing minor details like redline, shiftpoints, and shift firmness. With Vortech's supplied (and very conservative) tune, I'm seeing 20 mpg on cruise control at 65 mph, and about 12-13 mpg in town. Keep in mind that my stall converter flashes to much higher rpm's than most people would drive around town, and that triggers boost in the blower more often, so that's the biggest reason for the poor city mileage (and somewhat on the highway). As always: "your mileage may vary."

 

Wow, your cars going to be sick at the strip!!!!

 

 

You made some good points Brian about the differences in superchargers. Both types of blowers have their positives and negatives. Right now I'm leaning towards the Procharger due to cost, reliability, and milage. The torque curve on the Procharger doesn't look that bad and it's about 1k less than the Saleen set up.

 

My car's a stick and the motor is stock with 3:55 gears. The Saleen may be a better match but the Procharger should work nicely too.

[RUFDRAFT]

Wow, your cars going to be sick at the strip!!!!

 

 

You made some good points Brian about the differences in superchargers. Both types of blowers have their positives and negatives. Right now I'm leaning towards the Procharger due to cost, reliability, and milage. The torque curve on the Procharger doesn't look that bad and it's about 1k less than the Saleen set up.

 

My car's a stick and the motor is stock with 3:55 gears. The Saleen may be a better match but the Procharger should work nicely too.

Jim - the ProCharger and Vortech are similar. But take a look at how the intake is positioned on the ProCharger - it faces the firewall instead of the grille.

[90GT]

Jim - the ProCharger and Vortech are similar. But take a look at how the intake is positioned on the ProCharger - it faces the firewall instead of the grille.

 

Saw that but I don't think that's a problem. I'm still not 100% set on the Procharger and I'll be doing a lot more research before I make my final decision.

 

I like the Vortech but don't like the idea of having to tap into the oil pan.

[RUFDRAFT]

I've had mine 8 months - zero issues! And I drive it every day. :happy feet:

 

Shelby uses Vortech on their Shelby GT Supercharged cars.

[Five Oh B]

How about Paxton? They've been around a long, long time.

 

My budget was very tight, hence the reason it took so long to actually take the supercharger plunge. List price on the kit I bought was $4400 through Vortech, but the individual vendors out there are offering them for hundreds less. I paid less than $4K (can't quite tell you just how good a deal Page at Stillen made me as he may not be able to duplicate that offer), and anyone should be able to find it below $4K.

 

Labor is still up in the air on mine, but at roughly 10 hours times a typical shop rate of $100 or so, $1,000 is probably about right. Dyno tuning (instead of the manufacturer supplied tune) would add to that, should you choose to go that route (recommended!).

[RStangsOC]

How about Paxton? They've been around a long, long time.

 

My budget was very tight, hence the reason it took so long to actually take the supercharger plunge. List price on the kit I bought was $4400 through Vortech, but the individual vendors out there are offering them for hundreds less. I paid less than $4K (can't quite tell you just how good a deal Page at Stillen made me as he may not be able to duplicate that offer), and anyone should be able to find it below $4K.

 

Can still make a couple more deals like that - same kinds of deals on the Paxton's

 

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