68fastback Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 +1 ;-) --- Rown, the custom tires on the KR is not simply stickier (the SS tires are likely stickier than the stock skins too), imo ...they're 'tuned' to the re-tuned suspension (and vice-versa) on the KR (springs, damper rates, tubular sway-bar rates, etc) ...all designed to work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc12 Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I'm ok with all of the above but I would think that they would have had plenty of time to come up with a list of available upgrade options for the KR by now. I truly don't understand what's taking them so long. Wheels or no wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I'm ok with all of the above but I would think that they would have had plenty of time to come up with a list of available upgrade options for the KR by now. I truly don't understand what's taking them so long. Wheels or no wheels... Who did you mean by "they?" The KR is a Ford/SVT project using Ford-engineered/specified parts. Or did you mean SAI? They're merely Ford's upfitter on the KR build ...it's not a post-retail build like the SS that is SAI's 'baby.' I imagine SAI might wind up offering some of the KR pieces and posibly additional mods not part of the defined build, but I think the KR is most appealing to Ford 'purists' (or maybe that's just my bias) who are more likely to want Ford/SVT/FRP engineered or specified pieces, whether offered by Ford/FRP or SAI. I guess there will be some who will heavily aftermarket-mod the KR, but it would seem there would be few because that money would be better spent on a GT500, i.e. why pay $30K [or $80K] premium on a KR only to replace many of the pieces to make it into a road-racer/track-dog when that money alone could do it on a GT500 base. So I'm curious what aftermarket pieces folks would be looking for to mod their KRs besides what's alrady out there for the GT500 and besides the awesome FRP-TVS (that should have been on it to begin with, imo) and maybe an extra set of 18" Alcoas for fun weekends. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Who did you mean by "they?" The KR is a Ford/SVT project using Ford-engineered/specified parts. Or did you mean SAI? They're merely Ford's upfitter on the KR build ...it's not a post-retail build like the SS that is SAI's 'baby.' I imagine SAI might wind up offering some of the KR pieces and posibly additional mods not part of the defined build, but I think the KR is most appealing to Ford 'purists' (or maybe that's just my bias) who are more likely to want Ford/SVT/FRP engineered or specified pieces, whether offered by Ford/FRP or SAI. I guess there will be some who will heavily aftermarket-mod the KR, but it would seem there would be few because that money would be better spent on a GT500, i.e. why pay $30K [or $80K] premium on a KR only to replace many of the pieces to make it into a road-racer/track-dog when that money alone could do it on a GT500 base. So I'm curious what aftermarket pieces folks would be looking for to mod their KRs besides what's alrady out there for the GT500 and besides the awesome FRP-TVS (that should have been on it to begin with, imo) and maybe an extra set of 18" Alcoas for fun weekends. Any thoughts? For me, the only upgrade I would even consider is the supercharger upgrade. And then I would save the orignal blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 For me, the only upgrade I would even consider is the supercharger upgrade. And then I would save the orignal blower. That would be my inclination too (should I ever be so lucky ...no sniveling ...yet ;-) ...ok, ok... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I will be interested in a bolt on IRS and i will ditch the live axle in heart beat.....I hope someone will come up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I will be interested in a bolt on IRS and i will ditch the live axle in heart beat.....I hope someone will come up with it. Ralph Arning's (Ford ombudsman at AAI plant) dad, Klaus Arning, designed the original IRs that was to ship in the original mustang before pulled it. This Duane Carling version is a derivative based on Klaus' original design. I don't know anyone who has sprung for it but sure would like to if anyone knows more :hyper: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I feel sad that ford has dropped this for profit however is it the same set up for the 2000 cobra R....I know they are totally different body styles but is it the same ingredient as to what this guy is offering? Edit: I just talked to Duane and he is interested in having it installed on a new car and getting it out to the public, he will give me a great deal and offered to buy it back from me if i did not like it, ....so it seems i will be like a Guinee pig...but i will look the DVD i just ordered from their website and if i have the guts for it i will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I feel sad that ford has dropped this for profit however is it the same set up for the 2000 cobra R....I know they are totally different body styles but is it the same ingredient as to what this guy is offering? Edit: I just talked to Duane and he is interested in having it installed on a new car and getting it out to the public, he will give me a great deal and offered to buy it back from me if i did not like it, ....so it seems i will be like a Guinee pig...but i will look the DVD i just ordered from their website and if i have the guts for it i will do it. I think the IRS losses a lot of reliablity with the added torque levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I think the IRS losses a lot of reliablity with the added torque levels. I'd like to see Ford build an application-specific control blade IRS (like the Aussies did for the GT-P Falcon, below) for the Mustang. The control blade design can handle huge amounts of torque due to the integal torque-arms which serve to locate the unit as well: ... Sharabi, I think the the SN95 Cobra IRS is plumbed quite differently (uses a tubular sub-carrier/adapter like the '99, '01, '03/4 Cobras, I believe) than the Carling/Arning link design ...and both are very different than the Dana control-blade design. What I like about the Carling is that it's a pure/classical IRS with very low unsprung weight -- likely less than a control-blade too but, as Carnut points out, is likely more vulnerable to big torque -- dunno. Still, if he's giving you a good deal it might be a very worthwhile installation, especially if dragracing is not your main goal. Then again svtbird91's track car runs 11s and has the original '91 T-bird IRS (which was essentially lifted and sub-carrier-adapted for the SN95 Cobras) and he's never had a failure ...still the original pieces. It is an automatic but he does run slicks and it's held up amazingly well. Just some thoughts... Carling might be making you a unique offer. Maybe you can get some further price reduction with the free advertising you can give him in here? Would be very cool and unique for sure ;-) Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I'd like to see Ford build an application-specific control blade IRS (like the Aussies did for the GT-P Falcon, below) for the Mustang. The control blade design can handle huge amounts of torque due to the integal torque-arms which serve to locate the unit as well: ... Sharabi, I think the the SN95 Cobra IRS is plumbed quite differently (uses a tubular sub-carrier/adapter like the '99, '01, '03/4 Cobras, I believe) than the Carling/Arning link design ...and both are very different than the Dana control-blade design. What I like about the Carling is that it's a pure/classical IRS with very low unsprung weight -- likely less than a control-blade too but, as Carnut points out, is likely more vulnerable to big torque -- dunno. Still, if he's giving you a good deal it might be a very worthwhile installation, especially if dragracing is not your main goal. Then again svtbird91's track car runs 11s and has the original '91 T-bird IRS (which was essentially lifted and sub-carrier-adapted for the SN95 Cobras) and he's never had a failure ...still the original pieces. It is an automatic but he does run slicks and it's held up amazingly well. Just some thoughts... Carling might be making you a unique offer. Maybe you can get some further price reduction with the free advertising you can give him in here? Would be very cool and unique for sure ;-) Dan Dan, what are your thoughts on the Griggs TT suspension system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc12 Posted June 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Who did you mean by "they?" The KR is a Ford/SVT project using Ford-engineered/specified parts. Or did you mean SAI? Of course I meant for SAI to come up with a list. Amy had earlier stated that the list was almost completed and then nothing came forth... I would be looking at wheels (20'), dashboard additional gauges ...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Of course I meant for SAI to come up with a list. Amy had earlier stated that the list was almost completed and then nothing came forth... I would be looking at wheels (20'), dashboard additional gauges ...etc. I think she also said to check with your Ford dealer for these upgrades, as this is a pretitled upfit package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I'd like to see Ford build an application-specific control blade IRS (like the Aussies did for the GT-P Falcon, below) for the Mustang. The control blade design can handle huge amounts of torque due to the integal torque-arms which serve to locate the unit as well: ... Sharabi, I think the the SN95 Cobra IRS is plumbed quite differently (uses a tubular sub-carrier/adapter like the '99, '01, '03/4 Cobras, I believe) than the Carling/Arning link design ...and both are very different than the Dana control-blade design. What I like about the Carling is that it's a pure/classical IRS with very low unsprung weight -- likely less than a control-blade too but, as Carnut points out, is likely more vulnerable to big torque -- dunno. Still, if he's giving you a good deal it might be a very worthwhile installation, especially if dragracing is not your main goal. Then again svtbird91's track car runs 11s and has the original '91 T-bird IRS (which was essentially lifted and sub-carrier-adapted for the SN95 Cobras) and he's never had a failure ...still the original pieces. It is an automatic but he does run slicks and it's held up amazingly well. Just some thoughts... Carling might be making you a unique offer. Maybe you can get some further price reduction with the free advertising you can give him in here? Would be very cool and unique for sure ;-) Dan Dan ..I appreciate the wealth of info you give me, What i was interested in (more than a deal on the price) the possibility of being the first Shelby that will try this set up..Am sure he will put his heart in the project since it will be a good advertisement to him if things went ok, That is the upper side of the gamble, the down side would be obviously a screwed up me if things went south, even if you put the original solid axle back it may not be the same since some welding and drilling would takes place and you need to undo that if i did not like the results. At any rate i will look in the DVD that i will get from him and i will do some search and after all that if i have no butterflies in the stomach i will do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Dan ..I appreciate the wealth of info you give me, What i was interested in (more than a deal on the price) the possibility of being the first Shelby that will try this set up..Am sure he will put his heart in the project since it will be a good advertisement to him if things went ok, That is the upper side of the gamble, the down side would be obviously a screwed up me if things went south, even if you put the original solid axle back it may not be the same since some welding and drilling would takes place and you need to undo that if i did not like the results.At any rate i will look in the DVD that i will get from him and i will do some search and after all that if i have no butterflies in the stomach i will do it... Very exciting!! :happy feet: I know you can't post-up the DVD, but very interested in your thoughts after you see it. There was a great article on IRSs in one of the popular car mags about a year ago and they featured the Arning/T5 design that Carling is doing. It wasn't a road test, just an info article. If I can recall/find mag I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Dan, what are your thoughts on the Griggs TT suspension system? I have no specific experience but I've seen it in person at SEMA '06 and '07 and talked with them a bit and it sure looks likeke outstanding equipment. They also have a great racing record and I've also never heard anything bad about GR's products (except that they're pricey, but I suspect you get what you pay for). You might also want to PM member WP64 ...I believe he has some of their real-deal suspension pieces installed on his GT500 and can likely give you some good pointers on it. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Very exciting!! :happy feet: I know you can't post-up the DVD, but very interested in your thoughts after you see it. There was a great article on IRSs in one of the popular car mags about a year ago and they featured the Arning/T5 design that Carling is doing. It wasn't a road test, just an info article. If I can recall/find mag I'll let you know. which one if it was among them? http://mustangirs.com/articles.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 which one if it was among them? http://mustangirs.com/articles.php Ah, yes ...the second one: the Hot Rod Mag article (with Dale Jr. on the cover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharabi Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Nice patents in 70s...this is an encouraging read. http://www.google.com/patents?id=9LdZAAAAE...Klaus+H.+Arning http://www.google.com/patents?id=7AJ8AAAAEBAJ&dq=Arning http://www.google.com/patents?id=BOobAAAAE...Klaus+H.+Arning Too sad that bean counters ditches the IRS then just because cars where selling...imagine where our Mustang would be now had they worked on that foundation then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKindaGuy Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 The 18 inch wheels make The Shelby KR look like crap. They destroyed the beauty of the beast seen with the 20 inch wheels. Am I mistaken or are the 20' wheels mounted on the Super Snake? If so, I find it totally ridiculous to have stayed with the 18' wheels for their flagship car especially considering the price they're asking. A real shame! There is nothing more that looks like CRAP than a wheel that is 20" or more on any Mustang......I have witnessed several of these at shows and it makes the car look like a PIMP-MOBIL . This is up there in stupidity with people who replace the front and rear lights with Euro-style lights........Tastleless....absolutely tasteless...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Nice patents in 70s...this is an encouraging read. http://www.google.com/patents?id=9LdZAAAAE...Klaus+H.+Arning http://www.google.com/patents?id=7AJ8AAAAEBAJ&dq=Arning http://www.google.com/patents?id=BOobAAAAE...Klaus+H.+Arning Too sad that bean counters ditches the IRS then just because cars where selling...imagine where our Mustang would be now had they worked on that foundation then.... Great finds!!! While I don't understand the all the implications of the math in that first PDF link it's clear this was a very advanced IRS design (esp. in 1961) ...it's gotta be one of the earliest self-correcting-rear-steer geometries for a US car -- I'd never heard of one that early ...didn't realize it was that advanced. Klaus was a smart fellow! His son, Ralph, at Flat Rock plant, seems like one heck of a nice guy having helped dozens of early GT500 buyers on this board track their cars thru production and give many a heads up on various questions/issues. Took pic below at Dearborn '07 Stangs Unleashed tour of Flat Rock: Ralph, if you're still monitoring these boards, check those links out above Your dad was pretty amazing! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 There is nothing more that looks like CRAP than a wheel that is 20" or more on any Mustang......I have witnessed several of these at shows and it makes the car look like a PIMP-MOBIL . This is up there in stupidity with people who replace the front and rear lights with Euro-style lights........Tastleless....absolutely tasteless...... Does a pimp-mobil look like this? ...j/k ...or this? ...you know what they say about opinions ;-) I actually like the *look* of the 20" Alcoas on the prototype KR and on the SSs, just that 18s permit the car to perform better and 18" Alcoas, like on the production KRs, seem to be the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKindaGuy Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 ........you know what they say about opinions ;-), I know everyone has an opinion about this but some folks in this forum are in absolute dire need of having an encephaloanalectomy so that they can realize that a car like a KR doesn't need any help looking better. Its like trashing a fine Rembrandt oil painting with grade-school watercolors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc12 Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Except that this particular Rembrandt was first shown with 20' wheels...But what do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyKindaGuy Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Except that this particular Rembrandt was first shown with 20' wheels...But what do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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