Evaluate at own risk BOSS

[JETSOLVER]

SVTP/BOSS info?

[crispy23c]

SVTP/BOSS info?

 

Hey, Jetsolver! You know & I know that Fourcam330 is usually spot-on with this stuff. The only reason I would doubt this would be if Ford changed their minds, but then 4c330 would know that, too. Interesting read, for sure!!!

[MustangFanatic]

Well, I think this goes along with many of the theories that have been espoused in recent weeks. The new engine will bow in the redesigned '10 model with 5.8L of displacement and the new engine series will be called the Boss. It doesn't necessarily imply that there will be a Boss Mustang in '10, just that there will be a new engine mostly likely destined for the SVT high performance model. I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that Ford MIGHT continue with the mod engines for the GT model and reserve the Boss for the SVT offerings. While it might not be called the Hurricane, it seems most of the design architecture is being utilized in the Boss engine. Of course with 5.8L of displacement, how could Ford not call it a Boss 351?

[JETSOLVER]

Fanatic, you saw this right? Niche engine for ?

[MustangFanatic]

Fanatic, you saw this right? Niche engine for ?

 

 

Yes I did Make it 400 hp and 5.0L and we have a deal!!! :happy feet:

 

It certainly makes sense that Ford develop a niche engine for and S/E Mustang - it seems that since Saleen has already done some R&D on a 5.0L modular, it wouldn't be a stretch to develop an all alloy 4V version of the same engine.

[68fastback]

.

 

Ok, I predict:

 

-that 4.6L is for another Shelby variant coming next year, GT350? possibly. +/- 425HP 410 ft-lbs

 

-the Boss 302 is still a go and will be DOHC 5.0 Cammer based +/- 410HP 375ft-lbs

 

-The Hurricane is not dead!!!! Just the name hurricane is dead. It will not be a 385-series motor but a new motor with bore spacing similar to the 385-series. It will be called a BOSS (engine name) and will 5.8L in MY'10 mustang. 6.2 in the trucks, 7.0 later on If that 5.8L is not a Boss 351, what else? They can't fool me

 

-All of the ablve will be shown at SEMA this year either incognito or disguised; the new non-Hurricane Boss motor will not because Ford has to keep the competition guessing on exactly what that one will be and there's no need to generate hype over something that will have folks falling out of their Hemi's anyway.

 

-The non-Hurricane Boss motor will be a 2V or 3V in the trucks and a 3V or 4V in the Mustang and performance rear-wheel drive full-size car Ford is keeping super secret for MY '10 or '11. This same car will replace the Panthers in police, liver, gov't fleet, etc. It might be loosely based on a revised D30-D35/Volvo chassis.

 

-The Hurricane is not dead, the hurricane is not dead, the hurricane is not dead! It's just not a 385-series hurricane as originally reported -- likely never was! It's a new motor, thoroughly revised with what's been learned from the modulars. It'll be branded the BOSS. In effect it will be a new modular series (5.8, 6.2, 7.0L) but WILL NOT REPLACE THE EXITING MOD SERIES. Two mod series V8s: small and big. One corporate V6 (plain and dual-turbo, both OHC. One or two corporate I-4s. And, over time, three clean-burn (turbo/)diesels (V8, V6, I-4). Will take fully 3-4 years to fully roll this.

 

My disclaimer: the above is based on no inside info, just the sick mind of a 35-year strategist

 

Any betters on the above?

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

.

 

Ok, I predict:

 

-that 4.6L is for another Shelby variant coming next year, GT350? possibly. +/- 425HP 410 ft-lbs

 

-the Boss 302 is still a go and will be DOHC 5.0 Cammer based +/- 410HP 375ft-lbs

 

-The Hurricane is not dead!!!! Just the name hurricane is dead. It will not be a 385-series motor but a new motor with bore spacing similar to the 385-series. It will be called a BOSS (engine name) and will 5.8L in MY'10 mustang. 6.2 in the trucks, 7.0 later on If that 5.8L is not a Boss 351, what else? They can't fool me

 

-All of the ablve will be shown at SEMA this year either incognito or disguised; the new non-Hurricane Boss motor will not because Ford has to keep the competition guessing on exactly what that one will be and there's no need to generate hype over something that will have folks falling out of their Hemi's anyway.

 

-The non-Hurricane Boss motor will be a 2V or 3V in the trucks and a 3V or 4V in the Mustang and performance rear-wheel drive full-size car Ford is keeping super secret for MY '10 or '11. This same car will replace the Panthers in police, liver, gov't fleet, etc. It might be loosely based on a revised D30-D35/Volvo chassis.

 

-The Hurricane is not dead, the hurricane is not dead, the hurricane is not dead! It's just not a 385-series hurricane as originally reported -- likely never was! It's a new motor, thoroughly revised with what's been learned from the modulars. It'll be branded the BOSS. In effect it will be a new modular series (5.8, 6.2, 7.0L) but WILL NOT REPLACE THE EXITING MOD SERIES. Two mod series V8s: small and big. One corporate V6 (plain and dual-turbo, both OHC. One or two corporate I-4s. And, over time, three clean-burn (turbo/)diesels (V8, V6, I-4). Will take fully 3-4 years to fully roll this.

 

My disclaimer: the above is based on no inside info, just the sick mind of a 35-year strategist

 

Any betters on the above?

 

.

 

 

I'll agree with the following:

• 4.6L niche engine will be for the GT350 and may closely resemble the '03 - '04 Terminator engine.

• 5.0L 4V Engine for the Boss with 400 hp

• The Hurricane is not dead, only renamed as the Boss

• The Boss engine will be available in MY '10 in the Mustang. Might possibly bow in '08 in the F-Series

• There will be a new full-size replacement of the Panther likely in MY '10

• We will likely see some versions of these engines at SEMA this year

 

I don't think the Boss engine will be available in anything other than a 2V configuration initially. For the 5.8L Boss in the Mustang in MY '10 we MIGHT see a 3V or 4V head. There may be two MOD engine families at least initially but I think over the course of 3 to 4 years, the existing small MOD engines (4.6L & 5.4L) will be phased out and maybe something smaller than a 5.8L will be derived from the new Boss series.

 

As Dan stated just the miscellaneous ramblings of a avid Mustang enthusiast!!

[68fastback]

I'll agree with the following:

• 4.6L niche engine will be for the GT350 and may closely resemble the '03 - '04 Terminator engine.

• 5.0L 4V Engine for the Boss with 400 hp

• The Hurricane is not dead, only renamed as the Boss

• The Boss engine will be available in MY '10 in the Mustang. Might possibly bow in '08 in the F-Series

• There will be a new full-size replacement of the Panther likely in MY '10

• We will likely see some versions of these engines at SEMA this year

 

I don't think the Boss engine will be available in anything other than a 2V configuration initially. For the 5.8L Boss in the Mustang in MY '10 we MIGHT see a 3V or 4V head. There may be two MOD engine families at least initially but I think over the course of 3 to 4 years, the existing small MOD engines (4.6L & 5.4L) will be phased out and maybe something smaller than a 5.8L will be derived from the new Boss series.

 

As Dan stated just the miscellaneous ramblings of a avid Mustang enthusiast!!

 

 

Yeah, and the big-modular might just be a V8-only for some time, because the 'lil-modular family still has a lot of life in it in mid-performance macines and as truck base-motor, I think.

 

Yeah, initially 2V in the trucks (maybe moving to 3V at some point) and 3V in the stang (the new GT standard motor?) going to 4V as the competition ratchets up.

 

I wonder when they'll call it the BOSS (the motor), because a 2V truck motor called BOSS might be a yawner.

 

I'll bring my camera to SEMA

 

<it's always a pleasure reading your posts, Fanatic >

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Yeah, and the big-modular might just be a V8-only for some time, because the 'lil-modular family still has a lot of life in it in mid-performance macines and as truck base-motor, I think.

 

Yeah, initially 2V in the trucks (maybe moving to 3V at some point) and 3V in the stang (the new GT standard motor?) going to 4V as the competition ratchets up.

 

I wonder when they'll call it the BOSS (the motor), because a 2V truck motor called BOSS might be a yawner.

 

I'll bring my camera to SEMA

 

<it's always a pleasure reading your posts, Fanatic >

 

.

 

 

 

Thanks!! Yes, please bring the camera, we always want to see more pictures. I'd love to see Ford continue with two Modular engine families!!!

[68fastback]

I did a little playing with the calculator and some online research:

 

If the new 'non-Hurricane' big-block debuts with the bore spacing of the more compact legendary FE-series in the mustang at 5.8L, it could be oversquare even with 4mm liners in an alloy block non-siamesed. Also, the weight of the old FE SOHC but in alloy would be about 580lbs, at least 60lbs less than the GT500 steel 5.4 (not counting blower and intercooler!) and only 50-60 lbs more than the old thin-wall steel 351W hi-deck pushrod motor -- not bad for a decent-sized SOHC!

 

To eventually get to the magic 427cid in alloy without excessive stroke, it would be essentially the SA-improved FE motor, but with SOHC heads. (524CID is even reachable [and available!] in siamesed-alloy, and well over 600cid in steel).

 

This would also fit with the rumors of the Hurricane being cancelled again (Hurricane = 385 series, not FE) and makes a whole lot more sense than the behemoth 385s that went 700lbs or more in steel even w/alloy heads, like the Boss 429.

 

Anyhow, no new actual facts to offer, but this does all fit with what we think is true and with the known rumors (an oxymoron? ;-). I also wondered why SA would go to such trouble and expense to add such beefy valley ribbing, integral deep-skirt deck, and 6-bolt mains if just because 'it's been hard for our vintage cobra customers to get quality/NOS replacement parts.' That may be true but I can't see that audience alone making the investment worthwhile. And that Gardenia CA shop is no small/slouch operation -- with three state-of-the-art Superflow-901s.

 

Just speculating here, but maybe they're doing the engineering shake-out for the alloy version of the revised design for Ford. The Shelby folks told me when I was out there that there would be no reason to get a motor for a new CS Cobra from them "just too expensive unless you plan to hardcore race it" was their logic. That struck me funny too: they're making these killer FE motors but are disuading folks who are considering new CS Cobras from ordering them (at least three people asked in different ways and were as dumbstruck by the answer as I was).

 

Anyhow, I'm probably reading more into this than it warrants, but I still can't reconcile a near-bankrupt company making such an investment unless outside money is helping and the work has broader potential/purpose -- dunno.

 

Of course, the truck motor can be a 2V steel 6.4 with the same crank as a 5.8L SOHC 3V mustang motor, and then the SA-proven racing block and realted goodies effectively become the blueprint for 'FRP' aftermarket pieces, assuming they're all collaborating on this. That could all make a lot of sense.

 

<It must be in my blood to strategize on this stuff -- you have to admit ...strategically it's a perfect fit -- even if they don't ever do it this way ;-) >

 

 

<edit:> maybe the SA FE-motor work also figures into a new Ford Shelby-Cobra-II to follow-up the Ford GT?

[MustangFanatic]

I did a little playing with the calculator and some online research:

 

If the new 'non-Hurricane' big-block debuts with the bore spacing of the more compact legendary FE-series in the mustang at 5.8L, it could be oversquare even with 4mm liners in an alloy block non-siamesed. Also, the weight of the old FE SOHC but in alloy would be about 580lbs, at least 60lbs less than the GT500 steel 5.4 (not counting blower and intercooler!) and only 50-60 lbs more than the old thin-wall steel 351W hi-deck pushrod motor -- not bad for a decent-sized SOHC!

 

To eventually get to the magic 427cid in alloy without excessive stroke, it would be essentially the SA-improved FE motor, but with SOHC heads. (524CID is even reachable [and available!] in siamesed-alloy, and well over 600cid in steel).

 

This would also fit with the rumors of the Hurricane being cancelled again (Hurricane = 385 series, not FE) and makes a whole lot more sense than the behemoth 385s that went 700lbs or more in steel even w/alloy heads, like the Boss 429.

 

Anyhow, no new actual facts to offer, but this does all fit with what we think is true and with the known rumors (an oxymoron? ;-). I also wondered why SA would go to such trouble and expense to add such beefy valley ribbing, integral deep-skirt deck, and 6-bolt mains if just because 'it's been hard for our vintage cobra customers to get quality/NOS replacement parts.' That may be true but I can't see that audience alone making the investment worthwhile. And that Gardenia CA shop is no small/slouch operation -- with three state-of-the-art Superflow-901s.

 

Just speculating here, but maybe they're doing the engineering shake-out for the alloy version of the revised design for Ford. The Shelby folks told me when I was out there that there would be no reason to get a motor for a new CS Cobra from them "just too expensive unless you plan to hardcore race it" was their logic. That struck me funny too: they're making these killer FE motors but are disuading folks who are considering new CS Cobras from ordering them (at least three people asked in different ways and were as dumbstruck by the answer as I was).

 

Anyhow, I'm probably reading more into this than it warrants, but I still can't reconcile a near-bankrupt company making such an investment unless outside money is helping and the work has broader potential/purpose -- dunno.

 

Of course, the truck motor can be a 2V steel 6.4 with the same crank as a 5.8L SOHC 3V mustang motor, and then the SA-proven racing block and realted goodies effectively become the blueprint for 'FRP' aftermarket pieces, assuming they're all collaborating on this. That could all make a lot of sense.

 

<It must be in my blood to strategize on this stuff -- you have to admit ...strategically it's a perfect fit -- even if they don't ever do it this way ;-) >

 

 

<edit:> maybe the SA FE-motor work also figures into a new Ford Shelby-Cobra-II to follow-up the Ford GT?

 

 

Certainly the theory you put forth could be plausible, why should Ford invest R&D dollars in a project that could be developed outside for less coin and likely superior results. However, just because it makes sense doesn't mean it is actually being considered or pursued. Corporations make irrational decisions on an increasingly frequent basis just to appease some executive's political ambitions.

 

I think the point we can all agree on is that Ford desperately needs a large displacement V8 for their full size trucks, possible sedans and of course for our beloved Pony car, the Mustang. Failure to do so will result in lost sales, diminished market share and even more dire consequences. Personally, I don't care what they call it or how it is designed and developed, from me the proof will be where the rubber meets to road, literally. I would like to see the design be flexible enough to accommodate several different displacements with enough meat between the cylinders to over-bore. Any new Ford V8 engine must have an OHC design for efficiency and preferably and over-square architecture to allow for a high revving powerplant for Mustang use.

 

Thanks as always Dan for your excellent insight and critical thought, if Ford would only listen, they would certainly have a winner!!