***RED ALERT*** Fake Shelby CSX Convertible On Ebay

[shelbymotorsports]

This is not cool nor is it acceptable.

 

Ebay seller csx173 from Clarkston Michigan is running an auction for a 1987 Shelby CSX #290 convertible. Its ebay auction #200216558356

 

First of all there NEVER was a Shelby CSX convertible. In fact Dodge didn't even offer a Shadow Convertible in 1987.

 

What this seller did was take a red 1990's Dodge Shadow convertible, painted it black and then swapped all the unique Shelby parts from a junked 1987 Shelby CSX to make a ONE OF NONE car.

 

But what the seller did next is what is not acceptable nor is it legal. The seller took the vin # off the junked 1987 Shelby CSX and affixed it to the 1990's Dodge Shadow convertible. This is 100% illegal in all 50 states.

 

So although the seller says he is selling a 1987 Shelby CSX #290 what he truely is selling is a 90's Dodge Shadow with an illegal vin number alteration. Is is also misleading buyers about the mileage.

 

So be warned that 1987 Shelby CSX #290, vin #1B3BS44E8HN522942, Michigan license plate BSW 0306 is nothing but an "Air Car". I'll post the auction text and some pics below so that this will be documented that CSX #290 is gone and thats its Shelby parts & vin # have been affixed to a Dodge Shadow convertible from the 90's.

 

Steve

[shelbymotorsports]

AUCTION TEXT:

 

Item Specifics - Cars & Trucks

1987 Dodge : Shadow Shelby CSX

1987 Dodge Shelby CSX Convertible

 

Miles: 5000 Body type: Convertible

Transmission: Automatic

Engine: 4 Interior: Gray

Warranty: No Year: 1987

Title: Clear VIN Number: 1B3BS44E8HN522942

Get the Vehicle History Report

Condition: Used Exterior: Black

Fuel type: Gasoline Inspection: Inspected

For sale by: Private seller

Options

CD player Convertible Air conditioning Power windows

 

 

1987 Shelby CSX #290 convertible. One of a kind vehicle. Everything on this vehicle is NOS or custom rebuilt within the last 5000 miles. Car is a show winner. Spreadsheet detailing all parts purchased is available. Over $25,000 was spent on parts alone. Buy it now for 1/2 price, not counting the 3 years of labor to complete.

 

2.5L turbo (super 60 package), custom built head, custom ROSS oversize pistons, custom engine calibration, custom bulletproof automatic transmission with reverse manual valve body, Isuzu NPR diesel truck intercooler with custom piping, CSX 2 piece intake, custom Griffin oversize radiator, 3" downpipe with custom exhaust, including custom tubular header exhaust manifold. Oversized fuel injectors, fuel pump, and fuel line. Koni shocks and struts with custom end link style sway bar. Polyurethane bushings and mounts.

 

Shelby radiator core, Shelby ground effects, Shelby rear suspension, custom flawless Shelby interior with original 1987 dash, seats, door panels, autographed steering wheel and column, and wiring. All 1987 Shelby CSX specific medallions, stickers, fender tags, valve cover, ground effects, spoiler, grille, etc. are there. Custom Chrysler factory 6 disc in dash CD player. Brand new Goodyear tires on chrome Borbet wheels. Original Shelby Centurian wheels also available.

 

This car is worth way more than the reserve. Just in time for Summer cruising. You can easily change back to stock injectors and a stock logic module for 30mpg. Ready to win car shows as it sits. Over three hundred fifty photos of the complete vehicle construction sequence are also available. I might even give a couple of trophies away with it. Don't miss this chance to own a one of a kind vehicle. Pics 2-5 in gallery taken 4-17-08.

 

More photos available immediately at http://ecoreeftechnologies.com/PhotoAlbums/csx

[shelbymotorsports]

Some of the auction pics showing the red 90's Dodge Shadow convertible:

[twobjshelbys]

Shouldn't a potential buyer be able to spot the forgery by running a VIN check?

[shelbymotorsports]

Shouldn't a potential buyer be able to spot the forgery by running a VIN check?

 

 

By vin check do you mean something like CarFax?

 

Steve

[twobjshelbys]

By vin check do you mean something like CarFax?

 

Steve

 

Yes. Shouldn't that show the discrepancy?

[sdac guy]

Some of the auction pics showing the red 90's Dodge Shadow convertible:

 

While the auction text is somewhat lacking in the description of the origin of the body ... The car was at SDAC-14 and Tom (the owner) made no attempt to pass the car off as an original CSX. He was very open and honest to everyone with what he had done to get that car into that condition.

 

Not everyone appreciated his actions, and a few folks were even outraged about it. With the pictures he references it is fairly obvious that he is not trying to pass the car off as an original CSX, but it would be nice if he included the word "clone" in the description.

 

I don't think he would make any attempt to deceive a prospective buyer about the origin of the car, but the danger does exist that on down the line somebody else may try to do just that.

[shelbymotorsports]

I don't think he would make any attempt to deceive a prospective buyer about the origin of the car, but the danger does exist that on down the line somebody else may try to do just that.

 

Sorry but if you look at the auction he CLEARLY STATES the vin # of the car he is selling to be 1B3BS44E8HN522942 which is the vin # of 1987 Shelby CSX #290.

 

How can that be when he is selling a repainted 1990's Dodge Shadow Convertible with some Shelby parts bolted onto it. Like I mentioned there were no P body convertibles in 1987 and if you look at his pics you can clearly see the convertible was an air bag, auto trans car.

 

I have no problem with people bolting Shelby parts onto a non-Shelby car, he's not the first to do it and I'm sure wont be the last.

 

I do have a problem with vin alteration. I'm sure Shelbys lawyers will also see this problem along with the state of Michigan.

 

There is no excuse for altering the vin # of the red Shadow convertible and advertising this car as Shelby CSX #290

 

Steve

[shelbymotorsports]

Yes. Shouldn't that show the discrepancy?

 

Tony not necessarily. If you run the vin number it will come back to a 1987 Dodge Shadow that was sent to Shelby Automobiles for conversion into a 1987 Shelby CSX.

 

The problem is the body/frame/chassis of the car he is selling is from the 1990's where its vin # was removed and replaced with the vin # from the Shelby.

 

It is illegal to alter the vin number.

 

Steve

[sdac guy]

Sorry but if you look at the auction he CLEARLY STATES the vin # of the car he is selling to be 1B3BS44E8HN522942 which is the vin # of 1987 Shelby CSX #290.

 

How can that be when he is selling a repainted 1990's Dodge Shadow Convertible with some Shelby parts bolted onto it. Like I mentioned there were no P body convertibles in 1987 and if you look at his pics you can clearly see the convertible was an air bag, auto trans car.

 

I have no problem with people bolting Shelby parts onto a non-Shelby car, he's not the first to do it and I'm sure wont be the last.

 

I do have a problem with vin alteration. I'm sure Shelbys lawyers will also see this problem along with the state of Michigan.

 

There is no excuse for altering the vin # of the red Shadow convertible and advertising this car as Shelby CSX #290

 

Steve

I don't disagree with you on it being a serious issue. However, I know the guy, and I know how he describes the car when talking to him. That is why I said I don't believe he is trying to be deceptive about the origin of the car.

 

You don't like the way the car is billed in the auction, and neither do I. But his asking price and reserve is not based on the car being an original CSX, it is based on the value of the parts and labor he has in it, and that fact he states very clearly (only asking half of what he has in it).

 

BTW, have you posted this info up on other forums or the SDML so it will get wider notice?

[twobjshelbys]

Tony not necessarily. If you run the vin number it will come back to a 1987 Dodge Shadow that was sent to Shelby Automobiles for conversion into a 1987 Shelby CSX.

 

The problem is the body/frame/chassis of the car he is selling is from the 1990's where its vin # was removed and replaced with the vin # from the Shelby.

 

It is illegal to alter the vin number.

 

Steve

 

I'm not an eBay guru, but would eBay disallow the auction based on the facts? It seems that there are claims being made that are not fact. A disclaimer in the auction might be OK, but "something is wrong in River City".

[Son of GT]

Steve, you're right, it is a federal offense to alter or remove a car's VIN and install it on another body. It would seem to me that Ebay would have an issue with this car for that reason so have you considered reporting your findings to them?

[Marcus86GLHS]

calling the car a fake is a vast understatement if you ask me. based on the reported info here in this thread we can agree:

 

1. it is not a shelby

2. it is not a csx

3. it has an altered VIN

4. seller has failed to detail this in his advertisement.

 

I'll say it: he appears to be acting like a crook.

 

i do hope someone is contacting the local authorities to look into the VIN swapping.

 

maybe they will make him dismantle it.

[CSX173]

calling the car a fake is a vast understatement if you ask me. based on the reported info here in this thread we can agree:

 

1. it is not a shelby

2. it is not a csx

3. it has an altered VIN

4. seller has failed to detail this in his advertisement.

 

I'll say it: he appears to be acting like a crook.

 

i do hope someone is contacting the local authorities to look into the VIN swapping.

 

maybe they will make him dismantle it.

 

Sorry some of you think that I am a crook and trying to mislead people. I placed a disclaimer in the ebay listing which clearly states the car is a clone. I should not take for granted that everyone knows Shelby never made a CSX convertible. I should also not take for granted that everyone thinks that the VIN issue is not a problem. However, once the car was completed in the State of Alabama, I took it downtown and explained what was done. The title they ended up sending me in the mail which does have the CSX VIN on it. I did not decieve the state of Alabama either. I had a long talk before the project ever started on what could or could not be done. If you go too far, you must get a salvage title. If you don't transfer this or that during the rebuild process, you keep the title of one car or the other. Chassis, engine, and suspension systems are the key pieces. The engine does not match either car, the chassis (body) is a mix of both cars, and the suspension is from the original CSX. There is specific paperwork that has to be filled out and sent in. I followed procedure. They even came out to see the car parked in front of the courthouse. It is what it is. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. I guess I could call it a hacked up clone and everyone with a problem would feel better. Deception would have been to take that rusted body of #290 and swap it into another hard top and sell it as numbers matching. This car certainly will never be mistaken for numbers matching. If there are other rules I need to follow, I will gladly comply. Can't we all just get along?

[Marcus86GLHS]

I do see you just added this to the ebay info:

 

"Disclaimer: For those of you who are ture "numbers matching" Shelby enthusiasts. This vehicle is NOT a numbers matching Shelby CSX. This vehicle has been extensively modified. The original vehicle did not come to me with the numbers matching engine, and this car has been modified from the ground up as a convertible. Shelby never sold a CSX convertible. This car is a clone."

 

 

I think what some of us, myself included, found unfair was not that you were claiming "numbers matching", rather, you labeled the car in the ad "Title: 1987 Dodge Shelby CSX Convertible". It isnt a 1987 Shelby CSX at all. I would've thought it quite respectable to call it a "1990 Dodge Shadow Convertible", then go on the describe how you were creating a custom or tribute car to a car that was never built by Shelby (no such car as a CSX convertible) and was one you perhaps thought could have or should have been made. So the car is not a clone at all, in the sense it does not duplicate any true CSX.

 

I am glad you explained the VIN situation although you really owe that info to the folks who use ebay to shop for cars like this. And please do not take anything I have typed personally, I was careful to say you "appeared"to be acting dishonestly, you shouldnt blame me for that observation. I do hope your sale goes well.

[BadAssPerformance]

Since there never was a "CSX Convertible" made by Shelby Automobiles, what is the harm in calling this car a "CSX Convertible Clone"? The word "Clone" alone implies that it is a "look-alike" and not the real thing. With that mindset then every one of the thousands of kit car, Factory Five, etc, non-numbered cars in existence and commonly refered to by the name "Cobra" should not be called a "Cobra" then, right?

[agvs24]

I think what some of us, myself included, found unfair was not that you were claiming "numbers matching", rather, you labeled the car in the ad "Title: 1987 Dodge Shelby CSX Convertible".

 

Actually to be exactly correct, his ad title says: "1987 Dodge : Shadow Shelby CSX", you left off the "Shadow" above. And in reality, that is exactly what it is... a custom built combination of a Dodge Shadow and a Shelby CSX which entitles him to list it as such. I agree also that disclaimer probably should've been posted up in the first place just to ensure clarity that it wasnt a Shelby factory built car since not everyone would realize there was no such thing as a Shelby CSX convertible.

 

So with that being said, good luck selling one hell of a nice car...

 

Chris

[robertlane]

Florida allows you to piece two cars together providing certain elements are met: Full disclosure upon sale, both titles are clear and clean. There was a third one, but I can't remember it.

[rare_ram]

So what is it? Clone or Tribute? My Rampage is being made with a blend of an 86 Shelby Charger and my 82 Rampage (and a little 89 Daytona). I'm also just making a car/truck that Dodge should have made (and Shelby wanted to, but Dodge cancelled the Rampage). I'm using the VIN off the Rampage (so no problem with DMV), Shelby Chargers weren't numbered cars and I'm not ever going to sell, but I would like to know the correct term.

[Marcus86GLHS]

in my experience, one could not clone a 1968 plymouth road runner convertible, because Plymouth never made one. and one could not clone a 1987 Shelby CSX convertible, because Shelby never made one. and you cant clone a Dodge Shadow CSX because there never was such a car.

 

the knowledeable folks here realize that "Make: Dodge" is different than "Make: Shelby", because we know that the Whittier cars (most) were titled as "Make: Shelby", whereas say a 1986 Shelby Charger or a 1989 Daytona Shelby would be titled "Make:Dodge" since it wasnt a Whittier car.

 

and, "Model: Shadow" is not the same as "Model: CSX". was there a 1986 Shelby Omni?

 

it might seem like nit-picky sematics but in the world of collector and special interest cars, these distinctions outline the car's true pedigree and are especially important if the car has a somewhat mixed bag of parts, like this one, because buyers pay more for true pedigree.

 

i do think pedigree is more important for a car like a limited production Shelby CSX than for say a Dodge Caravan made from a Plymouth Voyager or a Plymouth Acclaim made from a Dodge Shadow. i'd blow my top and drag the seller into court if i found out he sold me a 1987 Shelby GLHS from a donor 1987 Dodge Charger even if the VIN swap was legit.

 

i've been in the hobby for 30 years, in my experience a clone is considered a clone when it is a duplication of a factory car in terms of year, make, and model, although small changes in color and interior and other items not originally offered in the factory car is often seen on clones (ie: a 1970 Hemi Cuda convertible clone painted Panther Pink).

 

clone, tribute, custom......maybe it doesnt matter, it's still a beautiful custom car, and would be very cool to own and drive it.

[shelbymotorsports]

Sorry some of you think that I am a crook and trying to mislead people. I placed a disclaimer in the ebay listing which clearly states the car is a clone. I should not take for granted that everyone knows Shelby never made a CSX convertible. I should also not take for granted that everyone thinks that the VIN issue is not a problem. However, once the car was completed in the State of Alabama, I took it downtown and explained what was done. The title they ended up sending me in the mail which does have the CSX VIN on it. I did not decieve the state of Alabama either. I had a long talk before the project ever started on what could or could not be done. If you go too far, you must get a salvage title. If you don't transfer this or that during the rebuild process, you keep the title of one car or the other. Chassis, engine, and suspension systems are the key pieces. The engine does not match either car, the chassis (body) is a mix of both cars, and the suspension is from the original CSX. There is specific paperwork that has to be filled out and sent in. I followed procedure. They even came out to see the car parked in front of the courthouse. It is what it is. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. I guess I could call it a hacked up clone and everyone with a problem would feel better. Deception would have been to take that rusted body of #290 and swap it into another hard top and sell it as numbers matching. This car certainly will never be mistaken for numbers matching. If there are other rules I need to follow, I will gladly comply. Can't we all just get along?

 

The problem as I see it is not that you made a CSX convertible but that you took an original 1987 CSX

vin number from a junked car and attached it to a 1990's Dodge Shadow. You just can't legally do that.

 

Let me ask you this question. Why did you not leave the 1990's vin number on the Shadow convertible?

 

Steve

[shelbymotorsports]

Florida allows you to piece two cars together providing certain elements are met: Full disclosure upon sale, both titles are clear and clean. There was a third one, but I can't remember it.

 

Robert I'm not that familiar with Florida law but from my experience when you piece together several cars into a "new" car your state issues you a completely new universal type vin number for the "new" car.

 

What the ebay seller has done, using the new Mustangs as an example, would be like taking a junked 2006 Hertz Shelby and putting all its unique Shelby parts and vin number onto a 2008 Mustang with a glassback roof and offering it for sale as a 2006 Hertz Shelby Glassback model.

 

You just can't remove the vin number from the 2006 Shelby and affix it onto a 2008 Mustang.

 

Steve

[shelbymotorsports]

One other item that needs to be considered by both the seller and any potential buyer is the transferring of the cars title to the new owner.

 

I don't know how many states do this but here in California when you bring in a car from out of state you can not transfer the car into your name until the car is inspected in person by the DMV/CHP. They both have a special unit that does nothing but check vins/vehicle history.

 

Just recently the CHP has recovered a Shelby Mustang and a 57 T-bird that were stolen decades ago. In both cases the new owners purchased the cars on ebay and when they took the cars in to have the vin inspected the cars were seized on the spot.

 

So even though this Dodge Shadow was snuck thru Alabamas DMV that doesn't mean that it wont be caught by the new owners DMV which will open a whole new can of worms especially with those pesky words of "state lines".

 

Steve

[awakeinAZ]

Can't we all just get along?

 

Us law abiding ones usually do......

 

I'm thinking imposter car, imposter poster

[86glhs76]

Robert I'm not that familiar with Florida law but from my experience when you piece together several cars into a "new" car your state issues you a completely new universal type vin number for the "new" car.

 

What the ebay seller has done, using the new Mustangs as an example, would be like taking a junked 2006 Hertz Shelby and putting all its unique Shelby parts and vin number onto a 2008 Mustang with a glassback roof and offering it for sale as a 2006 Hertz Shelby Glassback model.

 

You just can't remove the vin number from the 2006 Shelby and affix it onto a 2008 Mustang.

 

Steve

 

Well to start, the guy has told everyone on the Dodge forums about the car. Did he swap VINs? He just stated the car was not a real CSX on turbododge, I don't recall the VIN issue. It is a frame off complete resto, gorgous car and worth something for the work.

 

Now for the swapping VINs is illegal BS. If that was true there would be over 100,000 people in this country that need jail time LMAO. Granted, I'll say many don't do old rods and trucks, that's fair. Requirements. Well of course you must own both cars and the documents. The "rebuilt" car must also be tagged, like a carfax for instance and on the title as "rebuilt". The car in question must require major frame work, in other words a wreck or rusted total. Back east thats easy LMAO. Then you can change any piece you want, including the unibody. With trucks I've seen 5 rigs busted into one nice one, NO BIG DEAL. New cars differ like the shelby Dodges and others. EACH fender is tagged and numbered. The tags must match the car, this is how they find chop shops, you must have a record of owning both cars or proof from a yard which you bought the fender from.

 

At this point you can take the CSX and the Shadow all the way down to the unibody and swap it all including the vins. Then you take both cars and inspect them. The state patrol inspects the numbers, tags the new car as rebuilt (from a total). The gives you a newrebuilt title with the VIN of choice between the two. Then gives you a salvage title for the left over mess. Because at this point you can't legally get rid of the rest.

 

Is it origanal? Of course not and being a convert he clearly didn't rebuild it right lol. Did he legally have it inspected and do the rebuild legally? Questionable, and scary. At that point if the car wasn't done right the tags and the title are pulled, ugly.

 

An example of a rebuild is my 86 GLHS 76. The front core and frame were replaced from front end damage. The drivers door and the drivers front fender are from a brown Omni. The passenger side doors and the fender are all from a silver Omni. The rear hatch is a wiper hatch and came from a dark grey Omni. The roof had holes in it and the hood had a dent in it, hood came from another GLH turbo. The car was cut up, spot welded and put back together straighter than the factory ever made them with zero bondo.

 

So is my 86 GLHS a fake now? Barely 15% is left from the day is came off the show room floor. This is the way things are with people that do major resto's on cars. Legally you can convert a CSX to a 4 door or a convertable. Stupid? Well sure if you want to restore it and make it worth something lol. But even if the car had a new 2 door had top unibody done, the title is still tagged rebuilt which means the car was totalled to be rebuilt that far. Any carfax would show it and then your hosed anyway.

 

There was a time when people would buy titles and VIN plates for Mopars and everything else. People with a sweet Challenger would buy a set of VINs and title for a Hemi Challenger and just add them. This is clearly illegal and NOT what I am talking about. Did this guy do it? I don't think so as he told TD the cars was numbered as a convert. He did a great job and spent a boat load doing it, at this point he could have done it legal easy. But did he? Or is it really titled as the 90? I don't know. Chop shops have actually saved our hobby from a lot of BS and done legal everything can be tracked. Like the old Vin plate swaps that 20 years ago couldn't be tracked..

[shelbymotorsports]

Well to start, the guy has told everyone on the Dodge forums about the car. Did he swap VINs? He just stated the car was not a real CSX on turbododge, I don't recall the VIN issue. It is a frame off complete resto, gorgous car and worth something for the work.

 

But he did not tell those forum members about swapping the vin number. His ebay auction also left out that damaging detail.

 

The car does look good and his work is worth something but he should have left the convertibles Dodge issued vin number on the car instead of illegally swapping it with a vin number from a 1987 CSX. Just because others have illegally swapped vin plates in the past doesn't make it right, either morally or legally.

 

Steve

[86glhs76]

But he did not tell those forum members about swapping the vin number. His ebay auction also left out that damaging detail.

 

The car does look good and his work is worth something but he should have left the convertibles Dodge issued vin number on the car instead of illegally swapping it with a vin number from a 1987 CSX. Just because others have illegally swapped vin plates in the past doesn't make it right, either morally or legally.

 

Steve

 

In the convertable unibody swap it would be the smart route to just keep the convert VIN. The CSX gets a 25% hike for "shelby" (sports car) and another hike for the turbo power code. One of my past insurance companys charged me 50% more for a Shelby turbo than normal, way too much. Not keeping the convertable VIN in place legally or illegally is dumb for that reason.

 

How the government decides legal or not is intresting, you can swap a unibody legally done right. But you cannot just swap VINs. The wording in WA for exhaust is much like that. Says you can't install aftermarket exhaust that is considerably different than stock. Yet they tell you when installing custom exhaust it must exit in front of the openning cabin windows. so I can't buy a custom exhaust but I can customize my exhaust, WTF. With the VINs and the tags your car goes through long inspections you pay for. The exhaust though, enviroment related not just legal, is not inspected here. I am a contractor as well as the car work I do. My structures now require new plumbing permits that are not inspected either, just something they charge me for. But how do they know that I did it right? Or maybe I should just say I am building a swimming pool without plumbing, they can't prove it, they don't inspect it. Cars were like this once with all the people steeling cars and getting new VINs at junk yards. Then they would add the new VIN and show they bought the car wrecked and rebuilt it, no inspection. This went on a long time. Some one steels your car and gets a legal title by going to a wrecking yard and swapping VINs. This was brought up 20 years ago and was a problem, but body shops must be able to do there job. Hot Rodders can't be shut out either. So they came up with a marking system and inspection system to legally do the work and the TRACK what has been done. Any wrecking yard or insurance totalled car now stays that way on the title. A way to check if he did it legal or not? Run a carfax and find out if the VIN shows a rebuild or a total, which is the same thing. If a carfax shows nothing, he swapped VINs. This also good to remember with anyone looking into buying a nice collector car. If it shows a rebuild or rebuilt or total the car may not be the same car. Hemi cars had spiecal weldments and so on that didn't transfer on VIN plate swaps. So old cars mostly are the hard way. The SDs though you can track them.

[86glhs76]

I'm thinking imposter car, imposter poster

 

I may be to old for the term but I think they call it a "poser" now lol. Like a ricer in a Nissan with Honda type R badges

[1991CSX]

RED ALERT! RED ALERT!

 

Someone made a car everyone knows Shelby did not make (last real Shelby Dodge was made in 1989, first Shadow convertible was made in 1991) to look like a Shelby. Thank goodness for this red alert. Now I am thinking that that Shelby Hertz Focus I saw was not legit too.

 

Everyone knows Shelby did not make a convertible CSX. It is a very cool car that looks great, and is well made too. I'd love to have it.

 

It is cool for someone to like Shelby Dodges enough to spend the time and money to do this. Let's not forget that the average Shelby CSX is selling in good condition for roughly a third the price of a new Suziki hatchback. This guy is tried to make a neat car, not take someone to the bank.

 

As for the VIN, if the Alabama DOT let him do it, it must not be illegal. Speeding is illegal too. i have a feeling that 100% of the people on this forum do that with no red alerts. Take a powder and give the guy a break.