S/C Question list

[SGT/SC#0471]

OK S/C guys tax season was great to me and my better half does not read the forums ssssooooo....

 

1. If you have an s/c'd car what class could/do you run at autocross...

 

2. Was the install job up to standards of "sano", look good etc...

 

3. Was it worth it?

 

4. What does this do to warranty?

 

5. Anybody daily drive the s/c'd car with any or no problems?

 

I am thinking of a Vegas road trip...hello SAI!! I am just a little hesitant to do this to my daily driver due to a friends horror story with a pre-05 s/c'd saleen that never ever was right nor did it feel like the rated hp...

 

BTW, my wife busted me by reading over my shoulder, haha way funny. Thankfully she digs cars, :happy feet:

[ShelbyPilot]

The SCCA national class is Street Modified. Which will then allow you to do anything you want performance wise. In the CalClub region they had a California Street Modified that I ran in. The only requirement was a DOT tire with a tread wear of at least 140. I choose that one over the national class because there were more competitors with the cars I wanted to compete with.

 

My Paxton install looks awesome. It is well worth it. I guess technically my warranty on the drive train will be kaput if anything happens but I had one fuel flow issue resulting in a breakdown that SAI took care of by covering it under warranty at my local dealer.

[TClark1976]

I am still on the fence about Paxton/Whipple decision - I know that this topic should probably be in the 'Mods' discussion area........

I'm also sure that this has been discussed in several locations in this forum aswell. . . . . and I'm sorry if I'm stealing the thread......

 

I would also like to add one question to the list.

 

Is there any handling difference noticed by removing the strut tower brace when you have the Whipple S/C installed???

 

 

Trevor

[pottydr]

why not take a look at the Kenne Bell for the 4.6, It looks very impressive under the hood, You can get a polished unit for the same price as a black whipple. Rick

[tpow96]

The SCCA national class is Street Modified. Which will then allow you to do anything you want performance wise. In the CalClub region they had a California Street Modified that I ran in. The only requirement was a DOT tire with a tread wear of at least 140. I choose that one over the national class because there were more competitors with the cars I wanted to compete with.

 

I'm curious about what other types of cars run in that California Street Mod class. As you probably know,

the National class is dominated by insanely tricked out AWD cars that on R-compund tires are untouchable.

I like the idea of an SM class sticking to street tires, since it emulates what you could legally drive on real roads right after the event. It seems to me like a logical step up from the Street Touring classes (an unofficial STM class).

 

-Tom

[ilmor]

If you order a Shelby GT S/C complete package direct from SAI, why can't it run in the stock class, such as A/S?

 

My Shelby GT can run in F/S the same as Mustang GT's.

[ShelbyPilot]

If you order a Shelby GT S/C complete package direct from SAI, why can't it run in the stock class, such as A/S?

 

My Shelby GT can run in F/S the same as Mustang GT's.

 

The supercharger is an aftermarket modification. I wouldn't want to run in A/S. It is dominated by EVOs. In reality the Shely GT/SC is not an autocross car/ too much power and rear drive platform. Yes The Shelby GT is the overdog in the FS class but it is competing with similar high horsepower rear wheel drive cars.

 

As far as the other cars. I don't know any more. I was spoiled by and open track event and disappointed by how the local SCCA club was running the autocross events. I haven't been back since Jan. The few I remember as regulars were a last generation camaro, a corvair, a BMW (5 series I think), another mustang, and a couple of souped up Japanese cars.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Here in WA, they have a street tire class indexed to the national classes, do they have this elsewhere as well? I was kinda shocked at my autocross instuctors mentioning the "high" horsepower of the SGT. Not that its a lightweight, just that the s/c'd cars are putting out so much more. I do not know what the s/c would do for the T class (street tire) for a WA SCCA event. I am interested in getting the Paxton (unpolished) for several reasons. I like the strut brace, I like the history and I want the SAI serial number for someone in the hopefully far future as I intending to get rid of the SGT the hard way, in my will, haha. Also I am already building a roots (weiand 177) supercharged 468 BB chev for the quarter, with a 4sp and now most likley a straight axle in a '56 210, now that I have the best daily driver I ever have had, my SGT. I guess the autocross component of my question was that while the SGT dominates the FS class what happens after the s/c, no more F/S and then your car is a non-competitor? Maybe I need to find some open track stuff or what else could you race a s/c'd SGT in?

[ShelbyPilot]

The do have similar Street tire classes at other regions.

 

I think an open track event will spoil you for autocross. It did me. In autocross you get 3 -60 second runs runs, 6 if you pay extra for X runs. Open track you get several sessions on a closed course with multiple laps. The Shelby GT, supercharged or not, is more suited to the track then a pyloned parking lot. In my opinion.

 

It may cost more but I rather save 3-4 months worth of Autocross entry fees for one day of open track.

[bigcarl1]

The do have similar Street tire classes at other regions.

 

I think an open track event will spoil you for autocross. It did me. In autocross you get 3 -60 second runs runs, 6 if you pay extra for X runs. Open track you get several sessions on a closed course with multiple laps. The Shelby GT, supercharged or not, is more suited to the track then a pyloned parking lot. In my opinion.

 

It may cost more but I rather save 3-4 months worth of Autocross entry fees for one day of open track.

You got that right

[mywickedshelby]

sounds good Chris.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Carl are you racing or doing open track days? If so what knid of racing? I would do both, I really did like the autocross. Just do not think the 1/4 is what I want to do with the SGT, I think my 56 will run faster even if I mod the SGT. Hard to beat a tubbed 9" geared right and slicks...

[07SHELBY GT]

Has anyone noted the weight with the supercharger and had to make a spring change to autocross afterwards.That is one thing I am really considering,The additional weight.Which weighs more in complete installed kit form,Paxton intercooled style or Whipple intercooled style?To most people I would think this wouldn't matter but in an autocross type race I would think it's important.

[bigcarl1]

Carl are you racing or doing open track days? If so what knid of racing? I would do both, I really did like the autocross. Just do not think the 1/4 is what I want to do with the SGT, I think my 56 will run faster even if I mod the SGT. Hard to beat a tubbed 9" geared right and slicks...

It's an open track. the last time I was on the track it was for over 90 miles. they have three passing area on the 3 mile track.

[moabman]

I just posted this on another thread but here are my observations about the two different styles of superchargers. I have a Saleen kit and my friend has a Paxton. We both have driven each others cars on an tight autocross course. I have the FRPP handling pack and I'm running the GT500 rims with Michelin Sport A/S rubber. I think that the supercharger added a slight amount of understeer to the car after I had removed it with the suspension mods. BTW, I think the stock Mustang GT has moderate understeer so you can judge what I mean by slight.

 

My friend thinks I'm neutral and we both agree he has more understeer than my car. He has lowering springs, shocks, sway bars, and new wheels and tires but they are a mix and match and are not the same as mine. Another major difference is his is a coupe and mine is a convertible. We both think however, that his understeer is a product of where the supercharger weight is added. Mine is on top of the engine and his is in front of the engine. All of that weight in front of the engine changes the front - rear balance more than mine. While my configuration changes my center of gravity. We think that it's the front rear balance change that is inducing the understeer. I haven't noticed the center of gravity change but the spring rate is pretty high on the FRPP handling pack.

 

My friend can take care of the understeer by blipping the throttle and, in fact, enjoys doing this. Just thought I would mention this beause I haven't read anyone else commenting on this.

[07SHELBY GT]

I just posted this on another thread but here are my observations about the two different styles of superchargers. I have a Saleen kit and my friend has a Paxton. We both have driven each others cars on an tight autocross course. I have the FRPP handling pack and I'm running the GT500 rims with Michelin Sport A/S rubber. I think that the supercharger added a slight amount of understeer to the car after I had removed it with the suspension mods. BTW, I think the stock Mustang GT has moderate understeer so you can judge what I mean by slight.

 

My friend thinks I'm neutral and we both agree he has more understeer than my car. He has lowering springs, shocks, sway bars, and new wheels and tires but they are a mix and match and are not the same as mine. Another major difference is his is a coupe and mine is a convertible. We both think however, that his understeer is a product of where the supercharger weight is added. Mine is on top of the engine and his is in front of the engine. All of that weight in front of the engine changes the front - rear balance more than mine. While my configuration changes my center of gravity. We think that it's the front rear balance change that is inducing the understeer. I haven't noticed the center of gravity change but the spring rate is pretty high on the FRPP handling pack.

 

My friend can take care of the understeer by blipping the throttle and, in fact, enjoys doing this. Just thought I would mention this beause I haven't read anyone else commenting on this.

That answers my question,Thanks!

[AstroDan]

I just posted this on another thread but here are my observations about the two different styles of superchargers. I have a Saleen kit and my friend has a Paxton. We both have driven each others cars on an tight autocross course. I have the FRPP handling pack and I'm running the GT500 rims with Michelin Sport A/S rubber. I think that the supercharger added a slight amount of understeer to the car after I had removed it with the suspension mods. BTW, I think the stock Mustang GT has moderate understeer so you can judge what I mean by slight.

 

My friend thinks I'm neutral and we both agree he has more understeer than my car. He has lowering springs, shocks, sway bars, and new wheels and tires but they are a mix and match and are not the same as mine. Another major difference is his is a coupe and mine is a convertible. We both think however, that his understeer is a product of where the supercharger weight is added. Mine is on top of the engine and his is in front of the engine. All of that weight in front of the engine changes the front - rear balance more than mine. While my configuration changes my center of gravity. We think that it's the front rear balance change that is inducing the understeer. I haven't noticed the center of gravity change but the spring rate is pretty high on the FRPP handling pack.

 

My friend can take care of the understeer by blipping the throttle and, in fact, enjoys doing this. Just thought I would mention this beause I haven't read anyone else commenting on this.

 

I would think that the extra weight on the front end would induce over-steer rather than under...? Could be wrong.

 

Dan

[moabman]

I would think that the extra weight on the front end would induce over-steer rather than under...? Could be wrong.

 

Dan

 

Thats what we thought too! Just wasn't what we experienced - that's why I was asking if others had noticed it. Two cars isn't a big sample

[ilmor]

I would think that the extra weight on the front end would induce over-steer rather than under...? Could be wrong.

 

Dan

 

Actually, the other way around. A heavier front end is prone to induce more understeer. As an example, this is why front wheel drive cars tend to understeer.

[moabman]

Actually, the other way around. A heavier front end is prone to induce more understeer. As an example, this is why front wheel drive cars tend to understeer.

 

Also explains why popping the throttle on rear wheel drive cars helps to get it to turn.

[ndwhitehorse]

My paxton S/C is not an aftermarket addition...it came that way factory showroom invoiced. The SCCA standard classes don't address that, although they put the Shelby 500 in A stock while a Shelby GT is F stock. I'll be entering an autocross tomorrow, and I gave the race director a heads up 2 weeks ago so he could figure out what class to put me in...he was leaning towards A stock then.

[07SGT0547]

The do have similar Street tire classes at other regions.

 

I think an open track event will spoil you for autocross. It did me. In autocross you get 3 -60 second runs runs, 6 if you pay extra for X runs. Open track you get several sessions on a closed course with multiple laps. The Shelby GT, supercharged or not, is more suited to the track then a pyloned parking lot. In my opinion.

 

It may cost more but I rather save 3-4 months worth of Autocross entry fees for one day of open track.

 

[HORSBYT]

My 1st track event had both auto-x and road. I debated which one I wanted to try first. I asked a few TS members, experienced friends, etc. I finally decided to "go big" and go for the road course. Now, i'm anticipating it again. I initially had setup my car for drag racing, but after getting my car on the road course, i'm convinced this is my "thing." The car handled better than expected, actually, I was pleasantly surprised. In Auto-x you only have about a minute to run the course........ not enough time to really get a "feel" for the car, let the tires warm up, etc. On the road course you can "feel" the car come together. The tires get hot, you as a driver get in a "groove" and for several laps everything just sort of comes together and became VERY enjoyable. When you blow a turn or an exit you have several laps to "practice" that again. One interesting thing was noticing the "sweet spot" of the track, car and driver. Everything sort of falls into place and is good, but then you notice that the tires maybe get too hot? Brakes get too hot and you feel things not so much in that sweet spot. Anyone else ever notice that?

[07SGT0547]

My 1st track event had both auto-x and road. I debated which one I wanted to try first. I asked a few TS members, experienced friends, etc. I finally decided to "go big" and go for the road course. Now, i'm anticipating it again. I initially had setup my car for drag racing, but after getting my car on the road course, i'm convinced this is my "thing." The car handled better than expected, actually, I was pleasantly surprised. In Auto-x you only have about a minute to run the course........ not enough time to really get a "feel" for the car, let the tires warm up, etc. On the road course you can "feel" the car come together. The tires get hot, you as a driver get in a "groove" and for several laps everything just sort of comes together and became VERY enjoyable. When you blow a turn or an exit you have several laps to "practice" that again. One interesting thing was noticing the "sweet spot" of the track, car and driver. Everything sort of falls into place and is good, but then you notice that the tires maybe get too hot? Brakes get too hot and you feel things not so much in that sweet spot. Anyone else ever notice that?

 

Sorry for the "shaky" camera... But my front camera mount wasn't as solid as I hoped for... However, I think you'd agree that being on the track with a 725HP SuperSnake in front and a 500HP 40th Anniv behind you is a TON of fun... Especially with my 325HP N/A SGT

 

 

 

Drive Safe!

07SGT0547

[SGT/SC#0471]

Sweet Video!!

 

My update is that I have had instaled the Whipple 550 kit from SAI....AWESOME!!!

 

But I have not tracked the car due to circumstances...I have another hobby that consumes the weekend days in the summer that takes priority.

 

There is some drag racing tonite....HHmmmm.

 

No difference lacking the strut tower brace that I can tell! I love this car...

[HORSBYT]

Sorry for the "shaky" camera... But my front camera mount wasn't as solid as I hoped for... However, I think you'd agree that being on the track with a 725HP SuperSnake in front and a 500HP 40th Anniv behind you is a TON of fun... Especially with my 325HP N/A SGT

 

 

 

Drive Safe!

07SGT0547

 

 

Very cool, thanks for sharing! It's pretty amazing how well the N/A cars can keep up...

[Frank S]

With regard to autocross vs track, they are different dances.

 

Autocross requires "quick study" ability, getting your groove going with minimal seat time and opportunity for correcting errors. Takes a different, not better or worse, skill set. Autocrossers and off-roaders have something in common: ability to assess and adjust without several repetitions. "Compressed" is a good word for it.

 

Track driving requires the same kind of learning but on a different time scale, and at different speeds. "Study" comes to mind.

 

My experiences in both disciplines taught me there is immense satisfaction in doing either activity well. If I had to choose just one, it would be the track: more time spent doing the actual go-fast thing, time to appreciate the "groove", to hone and polish. Suits my approach better.

 

That's not to say autocross is trivial in any way. It's more concentrated and intense, and the heart-rate quotient is just as high - if not higher - but not as prolonged. If track isn't an option, autocross is better than nothing (or street racing).

 

I didn't usually have super-competitive equipment on the track; never, actually, but I can't remember a day that wasn't enriched by some improvement in technique or refinement of line. One time there was such a groove it was more like a "zone", and I set the B Sedan lap record at Willow Springs in what was essentially a showroom stock Vega Kammback, one-barrel carburetor and tri-y headers, 7-inch rims and four Dunlop F-1 front tires left over from Mexico City. As my racy Pinto competitor said, "You have no business doing a 1:56 in that car!" Things like that can keep you going.

 

On the other hand, I had excellent equipment in the showroom stock slalom class: 1966 Lotus Elan S2. It wouldn't quite accelerate with the Corvettes in that class, on their tires three times as wide as the Elan's, but it turned when you thought about it, body English had an effect, and it would stop in a third of the distance the Vettes had to use. The Lotus was usually the fastest thing on street tires at any given event. Lots of "income" from winning class in events, and the championship.

 

Trouble for me is - was - spending half a day or more on a hot parking lot, chasing cones or whatever the work-run design of events coughed up, in order to spend maybe six minutes maximum actual wheels-on course time became too much of an investment, even when I was sure to do very well.

 

None of it matches wheel-to-wheel racing for thrill and satisfaction, though. I raced an MGB and a Vega GT coupe, each for more than a couple years, with great satisfaction and feelings of accomplishment. In both, it got to the point where I'd have to invest much more time and money in the enterprise to make any progress. Turned out I just wasn't motivated enough to do that, so I unloaded the cars and faded out.

 

I do an autocross or three a year, now, usually practice days where you get as much running as ninety minutes will allow, work 90 minutes, and be done with it. Plenty of time (a dozen or so runs, last event) to evaluate a car's potential and give a good idea of what it will do in emergency situations. And, again that feeling of accomplishment at improving performance.

 

Moral of the story is, do what you like to do. Do the best you can at it, and take the "income" to the bank. It's all good.

[kahmann]

Very cool, thanks for sharing! It's pretty amazing how well the N/A cars can keep up...

I've yet to meet a blown Shelby that I can't handle all over the track, except for the very long straight-aways.

That's why my #1 mod was the Griggs GR40ST suspension, instead of the blower.

[AFBLUE]

Cool video. Thanks for sharing.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Cool Post Frank.

 

I think all disciplines have the same "zone" and when it happens its very cool.

 

Its all about the driver or rider, there was an article years ago in Cycle world where they took a Moto GP Champion and gave him 4 very different bikes from a goldwing to a superbike on a closed road and managed to find that his times were amazingly close on all three.

 

BTW Ken I don't remember you being up my bumper on the street at Grabber Fest... I do remember being up a few though :happy feet:

 

Next weekend is a prosolo event where there is a drag race start and then the cones. I would love to go to an open track on a road course I am going to make that happen if the opprotunity arises.