naniki Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Well now, I have been having pretty good luck on here so far, now I am considering getting a forged internals kit and having it installed at the same time the supercharger goes on. I am finding a wide range of pricing from 1400.00 for an hms /kellog kit. to 2600.00 for eagle's 4340 forged and balanced reciprocating masses. This kit might be overkill, but as I said before... I don't wanna blow this motor up. Does anyone think the whole idea is not necessary? I am keeping the tune to 460 rwhp max. (without the kit) Any ideas as to what this will cost for labor? The Steeda site estimates 20 hours to install. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of GT Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Well now, I have been having pretty good luck on here so far, now I am considering getting a forged internals kit and having it installed at the same time the supercharger goes on. I am finding a wide range of pricing from 1400.00 for an hms /kellog kit. to 2600.00 for eagle's 4340 forged and balanced reciprocating masses. This kit might be overkill, but as I said before... I don't wanna blow this motor up. Does anyone think the whole idea is not necessary? I am keeping the tune to 460 rwhp max. (without the kit) Any ideas as to what this will cost for labor? The Steeda site estimates 20 hours to install. Thanks. If you keep your crank HP at or below 510 to 520 HP, the stock internals will be fine. Anything over those numbers and forged internals are an absolute necessity. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torquewrench1807 Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Below is a link describing component upgrades on the Roush P-51: http://www.themustangnews.com/carnews_08/st-0308p51a305.htm The Roush P-51A is easily the highest horsepower Mustang that the company has ever produced, and represents the first time that internal engine components have been upgraded by Roush technicians in their Livonia, Mich., facility. The stock Ford 4.6L, 3V engine sees a rebuild of several of the functional internal components, including a forged steel eight-bolt crankshaft, forged aluminum pistons with increased dish to lower the compression from 9:8 to 8:6, and forged steel H-Beam connecting rods. These upgraded parts were necessary for the stock 300hp Mustang engine to be able to withstand the additional power generated from the newest iteration of the legendary ROUSHcharger supercharger system. Additional alterations include a custom aluminum upper and lower intake manifold for the high capacity air-to-water intercooler and ROUSHcharger. Roush installs a custom fuel rail and high-flow fuel injectors, a high-flow capacity fuel system, as well as a dual electronic throttle body. The new Roush P-51A engine has a rating of 510 horsepower and 510 lb.-ft. torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurgan Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Below is a link describing component upgrades on the Roush P-51: http://www.themustangnews.com/carnews_08/st-0308p51a305.htm The Roush P-51A is easily the highest horsepower Mustang that the company has ever produced, and represents the first time that internal engine components have been upgraded by Roush technicians in their Livonia, Mich., facility. The stock Ford 4.6L, 3V engine sees a rebuild of several of the functional internal components, including a forged steel eight-bolt crankshaft, forged aluminum pistons with increased dish to lower the compression from 9:8 to 8:6, and forged steel H-Beam connecting rods. These upgraded parts were necessary for the stock 300hp Mustang engine to be able to withstand the additional power generated from the newest iteration of the legendary ROUSHcharger supercharger system. Additional alterations include a custom aluminum upper and lower intake manifold for the high capacity air-to-water intercooler and ROUSHcharger. Roush installs a custom fuel rail and high-flow fuel injectors, a high-flow capacity fuel system, as well as a dual electronic throttle body. The new Roush P-51A engine has a rating of 510 horsepower and 510 lb.-ft. torque. Thanks. That's outstanding information. We certainly DO need to give Jack Roush and Roush Racing props for development of this engine. Makes me wonder sometimes where Ford would be right now without his input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraStang#1 Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Thanks. That's outstanding information. We certainly DO need to give Jack Roush and Roush Racing props for development of this engine. Makes me wonder sometimes where Ford would be right now without his input. Not really. Roush isn't doing anything revolutionary with these engines. They are adding a forged crank, rods and pistons. Big whooptee doo. They also lower the compression ratio which is a big no-no for modular engines. For every half-point of compression reduction you will lose 50 rear wheel horsepower that you cannot make up with timing or boost. Main point of contention with the original poster was "is this necessary". This brings the word "IF" into the equation. IF you plan on running the snot out of the engine......yes. IF you plan on upping the boost over 10-12 lbs.....yes. IF you want to run lots of boost on limited octane fuel......yes. However......... IF you can limit the boost to ten pounds or less with a good tune and quality fuel while keeping the rpm's under 7000 you should be able to keep the stock rods and pistons where they currently operate. A good forged shortblock would run you anywhere from $3000 to $5000 depending on who you buy it from and what the setup includes. Since you listed your maximum hp wishes to be in the 460 hp range I would suggest keeping the stock internals and spending the money on a quality fuel pump and a good tune. Stock rails should be fine. I suggest going to 39 lb injectors and either the GT500 fuel pumps or a single GT supercar pump. My twin turbo car has the single GT supercar pump and it is in the 10's at 128 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 Not really. Roush isn't doing anything revolutionary with these engines. They are adding a forged crank, rods and pistons. Big whooptee doo. They also lower the compression ratio which is a big no-no for modular engines. For every half-point of compression reduction you will lose 50 rear wheel horsepower that you cannot make up with timing or boost. Main point of contention with the original poster was "is this necessary". This brings the word "IF" into the equation. IF you plan on running the snot out of the engine......yes. IF you plan on upping the boost over 10-12 lbs.....yes. IF you want to run lots of boost on limited octane fuel......yes. However......... IF you can limit the boost to ten pounds or less with a good tune and quality fuel while keeping the rpm's under 7000 you should be able to keep the stock rods and pistons where they currently operate. A good forged shortblock would run you anywhere from $3000 to $5000 depending on who you buy it from and what the setup includes. Since you listed your maximum hp wishes to be in the 460 hp range I would suggest keeping the stock internals and spending the money on a quality fuel pump and a good tune. Stock rails should be fine. I suggest going to 39 lb injectors and either the GT500 fuel pumps or a single GT supercar pump. My twin turbo car has the single GT supercar pump and it is in the 10's at 128 mph. According to the Ford engineers, the stock setup is stout with 11 psi boost and about 500 hp. They said the bigger no-no is increasing the rpms. Many like to increase the redline to 6500-6800 and if you do, you might want to switch out the bottom end even if you don't go above 10 psi. If you do plan to get a new short block, you might want to consider FRPP's Aluminator. Aluminum block with forged steel crank and 4 bolt main caps. It has steel H beam rods and forged pistons. The DOHC long block looks sweet! The price is not bad either. It's worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraStang#1 Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 According to the Ford engineers.....Yeah....there's a wealth of good information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudaFly Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 Well now, I have been having pretty good luck on here so far, now I am considering getting a forged internals kit and having it installed at the same time the supercharger goes on. I am finding a wide range of pricing from 1400.00 for an hms /kellog kit. to 2600.00 for eagle's 4340 forged and balanced reciprocating masses. This kit might be overkill, but as I said before... I don't wanna blow this motor up. Does anyone think the whole idea is not necessary? I am keeping the tune to 460 rwhp max. (without the kit) Any ideas as to what this will cost for labor? The Steeda site estimates 20 hours to install. Thanks. If cost was not a factor and you REALLY wanted to get high boost and HP potential out of a 4.6L 3V then you might as well go all the way: http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techartic...oker/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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