Jump to content
TEAM SHELBY FORUM

SGT pcm / computer differences


Recommended Posts

My poor little 08 SGT-C had to go back to the dealership due to drivability issues and a CEL/MIL code of P2015. They determined that the PCM / computer is no good and have ordered me a new one. My concern is that when the service advisor was questioned on the fact that it is a Shelby and not a regular Mustang GT, she was unaware that there was a difference. When I informed her that there was a difference she blew me off saying that the PCM was ordered by VIN so I would get the right one. Well, my VIN reads out as a Mustang GT. When I challenged her that it had been reflashed at SAI for the additional power upgrades she said that if that was the case, they would reflash mine at the dealership. I again challenged her and asked if they could really do that there, she replied that that was a question for a technician. I am somewhat put off to say the least and have some serious doubts that it is going to be handled properly. My question is, how can I tell if they do the PCM correctly. My old one was bad so I can not compare it to how the car was before. The only other s107 I have driven is a Saleen Parnelli Jones and it had a 5.0 cammer motor. All input is appreciated. Thanks.

John(;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My advice is to contact the SAI warranty team directly. My opinion is that your PCM will have to go out to SAI for the correct tune before it is installed in the car. The tune is from Ford Racing, and not a Ford part.

 

Sorry...The phone number for SAI Warranty is lost somewhere in this mess on my desk, but I am sure someone else can throw it up here.

 

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My advice is to contact the SAI warranty team directly. My opinion is that your PCM will have to go out to SAI for the correct tune before it is installed in the car. The tune is from Ford Racing, and not a Ford part.

 

Sorry...The phone number for SAI Warranty is lost somewhere in this mess on my desk, but I am sure someone else can throw it up here.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully my original service advisor is on this issue. When I dropped the car off and the diagnosed the bad pcm, she said it would be done and I could have the car back the next day. She later called and said that it would take a couple of days to get the pcm so it is possible that she (some one) caught the problem and that is why it has to stay longer at the dealership. I can't pick it up for a week anyway since I will be out of town, but it better be right when I get back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have a few hundred dollars, order up a kit from Brenspeed. Several people have done this and are very happy with the results. That would negate your uninformed advisor and technician. Also you could maybe buy a handheld from Diablo or other manufacture and take the car to a tuner with a dyno.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have a few hundred dollars, order up a kit from Brenspeed. Several people have done this and are very happy with the results. That would negate your uninformed advisor and technician. Also you could maybe buy a handheld from Diablo or other manufacture and take the car to a tuner with a dyno.

 

 

That is a great idea, but the car is like 2 months old with 1,200 miles and has almost 7 years left on the warantee. I am really hoping that the dealership can handle this. If I do upgrade to a supercharger, the first thing that will happen will be a custom tune. Right now the car is fast enough, averages over 20mpg (best of 26.9 for a tank) and did I mention that I ante'd up for the longest warentee that they had? Thanks again.

John(;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have a few hundred dollars, order up a kit from Brenspeed. Several people have done this and are very happy with the results. That would negate your uninformed advisor and technician. Also you could maybe buy a handheld from Diablo or other manufacture and take the car to a tuner with a dyno.

Not a bad suggestion, but the tune, tuner and dyno services add up to over 500 bucks. Moreover, if he had installed an aftermarker tune (from anywhere) before the PCM went south, he would be on his own today. The PCM tracks changes, Ford will know. The Ford Racing tune is the only tune protected by one of the three warranties on the car, and for an SGT this young in service, I wouldn't do it. After warranty, tune your azz off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a bad suggestion, but the tune, tuner and dyno services add up to over 500 bucks. Moreover, if he had installed an aftermarker tune (from anywhere) before the PCM went south, he would be on his own today. The PCM tracks changes, Ford will know. The Ford Racing tune is the only tune protected by one of the three warranties on the car, and for an SGT this young in service, I wouldn't do it. After warranty, tune your azz off.

 

 

Thanks for the support. 550 fly wheel in my CSX, 360 rear wheel in my semi tube frame road race car, 350 fly wheel in my vintage road race car, and 319 fly wheel in my CSM will keep me entertained for now, but when the warentee is gone, the gloves come off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a bad suggestion, but the tune, tuner and dyno services add up to over 500 bucks. Moreover, if he had installed an aftermarker tune (from anywhere) before the PCM went south, he would be on his own today. The PCM tracks changes, Ford will know. The Ford Racing tune is the only tune protected by one of the three warranties on the car, and for an SGT this young in service, I wouldn't do it. After warranty, tune your azz off.

 

I thought I read some where on this forum that if you returned the SAI tune back to the PCM and then un-hook your battery for a while before taking it to the dealership that they would not be able to read that an after market program was installed. I thought it would record that the battery was un-hooked but not that a different program was installed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully my original service advisor is on this issue. When I dropped the car off and the diagnosed the bad pcm, she said it would be done and I could have the car back the next day. She later called and said that it would take a couple of days to get the pcm so it is possible that she (some one) caught the problem and that is why it has to stay longer at the dealership. I can't pick it up for a week anyway since I will be out of town, but it better be right when I get back.

 

I would REALLY verify this somehow, call to the Warranty line, etc. Just have learned to take NOTHING for granted with this car.

 

_jeff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heres what will probably happen

1. They will install the VIN matching ECM.

2. They will start the car and it will die.

3. Finally it will start and run like it has a vacuum leak because its not tuned for a Cold air kit with a 90mm mass air meter.

4. Then they will call ford tech line. And it will eventually be solved.

 

I would probably talk to the sevice Manager and have him research the situation to minimize the down time.

 

Or the ECM will come from ford programmed with the right tune flash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought I read some where on this forum that if you returned the SAI tune back to the PCM and then un-hook your battery for a while before taking it to the dealership that they would not be able to read that an after market program was installed. I thought it would record that the battery was un-hooked but not that a different program was installed.

Yup, you did, but that was a while back. Back in '03-'04, we could do just about anything we wanted and cover it up later. But, starting in '05, the EEC has a check digit in ROM that confirms tampering with the EEC. All Ford needs to see is that zero changed to a "1" and you are toast. They don't have to prove anything more.

 

My original advice stands...Get the new PCM and send it out to SAI for programming. SAI/FRP is the only authorized programmer for the SGT factory tune, and the check digit stays at zero until you mess with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, you did, but that was a while back. Back in '03-'04, we could do just about anything we wanted and cover it up later. But, starting in '05, the EEC has a check digit in ROM that confirms tampering with the EEC. All Ford needs to see is that zero changed to a "1" and you are toast. They don't have to prove anything more.

 

My original advice stands...Get the new PCM and send it out to SAI for programming. SAI/FRP is the only authorized programmer for the SGT factory tune, and the check digit stays at zero until you mess with it.

 

 

Who can I / they talk to at SAI to resolve the problem. I still don't have my car back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who can I / they talk to at SAI to resolve the problem. I still don't have my car back.

 

Have they called Ford Racing's warranty people? You can also send an PM (SAI-Bud) or email to Bud at Shelby. I don't have his email in front of me but I believe it's bud@shelbyautos.com and he can direct you.

 

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have they called Ford Racing's warranty people? You can also send an PM (SAI-Bud) or email to Bud at Shelby. I don't have his email in front of me but I believe it's bud@shelbyautos.com and he can direct you.

 

Good luck!

 

 

I just got off the phone with the dealership and they are hoping to have a part from ford monday at the earliest. I just emailed Bud and am hoping that he can help me / them. Thanks.

John(;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A better service advisor sounds like a solution, get someone else involved to make sure it gets done right.

 

 

I got in contact with the Shelby customer service and warentee people (THANKS Amy - it still amazes me how much you look out for us no matter how many times you have helped me ) and then got in contact with the dealership (even got the owner's son involved), and low and behold - my car is now a priority. I HATE having to get people higher up in an organization who have better things to do than make sure things get done right just inorder to make sure that things get done right.

 

John(;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got in contact with the Shelby customer service and warentee people (THANKS Amy - it still amazes me how much you look out for us no matter how many times you have helped me ) and then got in contact with the dealership (even got the owner's son involved), and low and behold - my car is now a priority. I HATE having to get people higher up in an organization who have better things to do than make sure things get done right just inorder to make sure that things get done right.

 

John(;-)

These cars have a few differences that the stealerships seem to be unaware of,The PCM flash is one of them.Chances are that they would have gotten it done eventually as was previously posted.You just tried to help them along!It seems that nobody cares about these cars,On the service level.SAI can help you when you have problems.When I got mine there was something small missing.An E-mail to John at SAI got me what I wanted in no time at all!Damn shame that these didn't sell better,Very fine car.Sorry to see it go.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My poor little 08 SGT-C had to go back to the dealership due to drivability issues and a CEL/MIL code of P2015. They determined that the PCM / computer is no good and have ordered me a new one. My concern is that when the service advisor was questioned on the fact that it is a Shelby and not a regular Mustang GT, she was unaware that there was a difference. When I informed her that there was a difference she blew me off saying that the PCM was ordered by VIN so I would get the right one. Well, my VIN reads out as a Mustang GT. When I challenged her that it had been reflashed at SAI for the additional power upgrades she said that if that was the case, they would reflash mine at the dealership. I again challenged her and asked if they could really do that there, she replied that that was a question for a technician. I am somewhat put off to say the least and have some serious doubts that it is going to be handled properly. My question is, how can I tell if they do the PCM correctly. My old one was bad so I can not compare it to how the car was before. The only other s107 I have driven is a Saleen Parnelli Jones and it had a 5.0 cammer motor. All input is appreciated. Thanks.

John(;-)

 

A very dear friend of mine is Ford Certified Master Tech. He told me that dealer computer should have no problem reflashing your PCM to the correct Shelby Specs. He has done it several times. as long as they select the correct Shelby calibration. I would suggest, if you get your car back and it feels dead, with a lack of power compaired to before, find another dealer. I worked in a Ford dealer for over twenty years, and I know some of the service advisers dont know ^%(*!! Hopefully your tech will be smart enough to know what to do. Personally, I wouldnt take my wheel barrow to my closest dealership. Not even to check the tire pressure.

You might also ask if you could speak with the tech. Most goods techs will take the time to talk to a concerned customer.

I hope this helps. Take care, drive safe!

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the flash is specific to the engine performance upgrade sending the pcm in has never been done Ford will send your dealer the correct flash to compensate for the cold air intake and exhaust upgrades It is correct that if people use a different type of tuner the warrqanty will be voided in the event of a linkable pcm problem despite the Mag/Moss act. if you purchased a extended warranty stick to the ford racing flash. Also when you do upgrade to a supercharger you can still be within your warranty but you must choose a ford racing supercharger from what I have been told.

What many don't understand about the Magnuson-Moss Act, is that it is a civil proceedure in place to protect consumers. However, it requires that you 1) suffer damages as a result of a decision to withdraw all or part of your factory warranty due to external aftermarket mods, and 2) YOU file the law suit as the plaintiff against the dealership, and perhaps FMC at a later time. Meanwhile, your car sits until the repair bill is paid. You may win out and recover damages two years down the road, but, if you cannot afford repairs at the instant, it sits.

 

My only disagreement with your comments, is the accessibility of the FRP/SGT specific tune parameters installed by SAI. This programming belongs to Ford Racing, not Ford Motor Company.

 

A very dear friend of mine is Ford Certified Master Tech. He told me that dealer computer should have no problem reflashing your PCM to the correct Shelby Specs. He has done it several times. as long as they select the correct Shelby calibration.

Tim

Ditto to you as well, Tim. Yes, a Ford wrench may be able to dial up a correct calibration for the Shelby GT 500, but I do not believe they have access to the FRP tune specifications. I believe that the only Ford parts departments who do have access to a Ford Racing tune, are the authorized FRP dealerships and even then, I can't be sure they have access to SAI's version of the FRP tune.

 

If an SGT EEC/PCM needs to be replaced, the best route to take is to send the new unit to SAI Warranty for a reflash. Prolly the quickest thing to do as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What many don't understand about the Magnuson-Moss Act, is that it is a civil proceedure in place to protect consumers. However, it requires that you 1) suffer damages as a result of a decision to withdraw all or part of your factory warranty due to external aftermarket mods, and 2) YOU file the law suit as the plaintiff against the dealership, and perhaps FMC at a later time. Meanwhile, your car sits until the repair bill is paid. You may win out and recover damages two years down the road, but, if you cannot afford repairs at the instant, it sits.

 

My only disagreement with your comments, is the accessibility of the FRP/SGT specific tune parameters installed by SAI. This programming belongs to Ford Racing, not Ford Motor Company.

 

 

Ditto to you as well, Tim. Yes, a Ford wrench may be able to dial up a correct calibration for the Shelby GT 500, but I do not believe they have access to the FRP tune specifications. I believe that the only Ford parts departments who do have access to a Ford Racing tune, are the authorized FRP dealerships and even then, I can't be sure they have access to SAI's version of the FRP tune.

 

If an SGT EEC/PCM needs to be replaced, the best route to take is to send the new unit to SAI Warranty for a reflash. Prolly the quickest thing to do as well.

 

 

Well, I got to pick up my sgt last wed (because they said that FRPP and Shelby were not helping them (passing them around and keeping them on hold) :hysterical: . They had tried to wash it (and I have seem homeless people with newspaper do a better job). I drove it home, put it in the garage, took it to the auto parts store to buy stuff for my f350 dually crew cab the next day and the CEL / MIL came back on. It is now throwing 3-4 new codes all related to the intake system and the emissions system (like the original CEL / MIL code). :banghead: They got the stutter / hesitation to go away, but not it is totally flat between 4-5 k rpm (didn't want to take it any higher than that). Needless to say, I was not happy to be back less than 24 hours after finally getting my car back and they were not pleased to see me either. They claim that Shelby sent them the wrong "tool" and that my car has the wrong "calibration" because it is an 08 sgt-c built in 07. Maybe I am missing something but my understanding is 07 vs 08 same motor, same upgrades, same performance..... :doh: HMMMM..... The sad thing is that I don't drive the car a whole lot anyway (it is a 2nd or 8th :dreamy: car for me), it has been sunny and 70 degrees and I am getting to drive it less than I want to. Any comments?? I have written Bud since I think he should be able to comment, but I will not hear back until at least Monday (when they estimate my car should be "fixed") but I can not pick it up until wed due to work. Thanks.

John(;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very dear friend of mine is Ford Certified Master Tech. He told me that dealer computer should have no problem reflashing your PCM to the correct Shelby Specs. He has done it several times. as long as they select the correct Shelby calibration. I would suggest, if you get your car back and it feels dead, with a lack of power compaired to before, find another dealer. I worked in a Ford dealer for over twenty years, and I know some of the service advisers dont know ^%(*!! Hopefully your tech will be smart enough to know what to do. Personally, I wouldnt take my wheel barrow to my closest dealership. Not even to check the tire pressure.

You might also ask if you could speak with the tech. Most goods techs will take the time to talk to a concerned customer.

I hope this helps. Take care, drive safe!

Tim

 

Tim should be right. Since 1996 and OBDII, the memory has been flash reprogrammable and the box (PCM or ECU) is just a part with some base software installed (a "key" to allow programming"). The so called "calibration part number" (not the box itself, but the operating system, cal etc.) is a flash calibration installed at the assembly plant. With GM (I am very familiar with them), the individual vehicle is tied by the VIN to a specific calibration in a manufacturer secure "virtual library". This eliminates any chance of technician error by installing the wrong cal. The process is this: attach scan tool to Data Link Connector (DLC) under dash, this used to be called the ALDL (assembly line data link). Download what the current cal level is in the PCM (ECU). Go to the computer terminal in the dealership that is equipped with manufacturer specific service software (GM calls it something like techline, I think Ford is service bay something or other). Hook your scan tool to this terminal, compare the calibration installed in the vehicle to the latest available cal (sometimes there is an emissions or driveability improvement that is available). If a new cal is available, you just download it into the scan tool, unhook from the terminal, hook up to the DLC in the car and perform the reflash. It takes five minutes. Sometime you have to do a "case learn" depending on the vehicle involved(this just re-learns crank sensor position, no big deal. I have done many of these, super easy on GM. I bet Ford is the same. With GM, if a question exists or somehow the dealership tech doesnt know what to do when reflashing, there is an 800 number to call for help and the cal can even be sent electronically. It takes only a few minutes. In fact, if any special issues exist, like a change in tire size, a VCI vehicle configuration index, can be built and locked into the virtual library so if the vehicle is reflashed in the future, it gets the cal with the revised tire size included, not the old one. I cant imagine that you would have to actually mail a box somewhere for a flash. I bet the Shelby vin's are tied to the Shelby cal in Ford's database, Ford knew these cars were being sent to Shelby for modification. Believe me, if there is an emissions or driveability issue, these boxes will be reflashed at a Ford store, no way Shelby is qualified to do that.

 

Just like the recall for S197 Mustang seat belt, pretty much plug and play. I bet Ford can email the cal. After all, remember this cal is a so called ford racing cal, but it still had to have emissions cert., driveability, validation done by the manufacturer. Ford does own it, it is emissions compliant.

 

A Ford tech needs to speak up to corect me if I am wrong, I have not worked for a Ford dealership. thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim should be right. Since 1996 and OBDII, the memory has been flash reprogrammable and the box (PCM or ECU) is just a part with some base software installed (a "key" to allow programming"). The so called "calibration part number" (not the box itself, but the operating system, cal etc.) is a flash calibration installed at the assembly plant. With GM (I am very familiar with them), the individual vehicle is tied by the VIN to a specific calibration in a manufacturer secure "virtual library". This eliminates any chance of technician error by installing the wrong cal. The process is this: attach scan tool to Data Link Connector (DLC) under dash, this used to be called the ALDL (assembly line data link). Download what the current cal level is in the PCM (ECU). Go to the computer terminal in the dealership that is equipped with manufacturer specific service software (GM calls it something like techline, I think Ford is service bay something or other). Hook your scan tool to this terminal, compare the calibration installed in the vehicle to the latest available cal (sometimes there is an emissions or driveability improvement that is available). If a new cal is available, you just download it into the scan tool, unhook from the terminal, hook up to the DLC in the car and perform the reflash. It takes five minutes. Sometime you have to do a "case learn" depending on the vehicle involved(this just re-learns crank sensor position, no big deal. I have done many of these, super easy on GM. I bet Ford is the same. With GM, if a question exists or somehow the dealership tech doesnt know what to do when reflashing, there is an 800 number to call for help and the cal can even be sent electronically. It takes only a few minutes. In fact, if any special issues exist, like a change in tire size, a VCI vehicle configuration index, can be built and locked into the virtual library so if the vehicle is reflashed in the future, it gets the cal with the revised tire size included, not the old one. I cant imagine that you would have to actually mail a box somewhere for a flash. I bet the Shelby vin's are tied to the Shelby cal in Ford's database, Ford knew these cars were being sent to Shelby for modification. Believe me, if there is an emissions or driveability issue, these boxes will be reflashed at a Ford store, no way Shelby is qualified to do that.

 

Just like the recall for S197 Mustang seat belt, pretty much plug and play. I bet Ford can email the cal. After all, remember this cal is a so called ford racing cal, but it still had to have emissions cert., driveability, validation done by the manufacturer. Ford does own it, it is emissions compliant.

 

A Ford tech needs to speak up to corect me if I am wrong, I have not worked for a Ford dealership. thanks[?qoute]

 

I am puzzled. If it is truly this easy, why did it take them a week and a half the first time, they then needed a special "tool" from Shelby and they still did not get the "calibration" right this time so that they have to do it again and await another "tool" from Shelby???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...
...