How many have modded?

[SGT3517]

OK, so this is my first brand new car ever. All my previous rides I have bought pre-owned and out of warranty...so modding wasn't and issue of if I was going to, just a matter of when. Which gets me debating about even when this car runs out of factory warranty should I mod it. I've seen all the original #s matching...no mod shelbys on Barrett-Jackson and know what they'll bring in 30 or so years.

How many people have just bolt-ons?

pullies, o/r midpipe, LTs, diff CAI, re-tune etc etc....and if so how well are these cars responding to mods? And I'm sure everybody who's modded has all the factory parts as well, right?

 

Pictures, videos, stories of experiences, etc. Let me see em.

[clark17357]

Hi David,

 

You can get a jump on who has done what to their cars by reviewing their signatures. Most folks list what they either have done or will do in the future. I am sure you will get many individual responses as well. Congratulations on your car. Jim

[azspeed]

OK, so this is my first brand new car ever. All my previous rides I have bought pre-owned and out of warranty...so modding wasn't and issue of if I was going to, just a matter of when. Which gets me debating about even when this car runs out of factory warranty should I mod it. I've seen all the original #s matching...no mod shelbys on Barrett-Jackson and know what they'll bring in 30 or so years.

How many people have just bolt-ons?

pullies, o/r midpipe, LTs, diff CAI, re-tune etc etc....and if so how well are these cars responding to mods? And I'm sure everybody who's modded has all the factory parts as well, right?

 

Pictures, videos, stories of experiences, etc. Let me see em.

 

 

The 2 changes I've made are perfect for a little fun on the street. I went to a 4.10 gear, and it pulls a little harder. I also no longer listen to the radio since I had Bassani race mufflers installed...music to my ears.

[LuLu]

OK, so this is my first brand new car ever. All my previous rides I have bought pre-owned and out of warranty...so modding wasn't and issue. If I was going to, just a matter of when. Which gets me debating about even when this car runs out of factory warranty should I mod it. I've seen all the original #s matching...no mod shelbys on Barrett-Jackson and know what they'll bring in 30 or so years.

How many people have just bolt-ons?

pullies, o/r midpipe, LTs, diff CAI, re-tune etc etc....and if so how well are these cars responding to mods? And I'm sure everybody who's modded has all the factory parts as well, right?

 

Pictures, videos, stories of experiences, etc. Let me see em.

 

I have owned and modded several 2003+ Ford products.

 

I favor 4:10 gears for this car, and I am making my upgrade plans now. Hell, since I was 16, 4:10s have been the best street/strip gear.

 

I'd like to have an exhaust system more open, i.e. headers, larger OD pipes, and Shelby tips. Nonetheless, without any of this, the OEM exhaust as it comes from SAI is fine. I too, don't listen to the radio much, I'd rather listenn to my SGT.

 

Remember, it's only a 281 CID engine, you can kill the torque with too large a pipe.

 

Ditto the Shelby GT suspension, front and rear. Well planned and very functional. Love it the way it sits and handles in the twisties. No upgrades considered or planned.

 

I do not favor UD pulleys without a professional dyno tune. They can cause too much hidden damage you won't learn about until its over. Crank vibration is critical to engine longevity, and you don't get that much power from UD pulleys anyway, when you have a manual tranny.

 

I favor intercooled centrifugal supercharging, but within stock engine limitations i.e., 6-8 PSI of boost. This is more than enough power to keep my SGT fun to driive without risking the stock engine.

 

I do not recommend NOS or any "juice" at all. Much too unpredictable, and I have yet to meet a tuner who knows what he's doing with the bottle. Juice is steroids, I say screw the medical problems associated with the drug.

 

Any modding is a high energy decision, the question you need to ask/answer in your heart is "how much fun do I want to have today" vs. "what I hope the car may be worth 20+ years from now".

 

I believe the answer is obvious. Go for the "fun today" because in 20/30+ years, who knows? Dayum, will you even be alive then?

 

One or two Barret-Jackson auctions mean nothing, the long term value of our SGTs is mystical at best. However, if you can afford to park your SGT for 20/30 some years and maintain it in showroom condition, go for it.

 

IMHO, I drive my SGT every chance I get, and I'm slowing modding it. Appearance for now, but I will be hard-core performance by the spring of '08.

 

I don't drive it everyday because the weather is chancy here in Chicago this time of year, and I don't want to lose a fender to "Ms. I'm running late, need to get my eye makeup on and talk to Bill at the office all at the same time" driver behind me. But, LuLu gets out, and she's getting better. This is my Shelby GT, and she will be dressed for work.

 

From your post, I cannot imagine how much fun you are willing to step aside from, only you know this.

 

However, I have bought "rare" and "1x" Ford automobiles before, and lost out on the day-to-day vs. preservation fun every time. Hell, my most expensive Ford product took a nose-dive just because the developer retired. Go figure?

 

Carroll Shelby is 75, right? And, he isn't going to live forever. Once he passes from our ranks, only the cars he personally touched will have any value. Those of us who shopped at a dealership, are/will be second/third rung on the ladder. Sorry, those aren't good numbers to me, I'd rather drive the hell out of my SGT today, than wonder about what it may be worth long after I have joined Mr. Shelby...

 

Just my .02C, carry on gents, and Happy hanksgiving.

 

PS...It's a car, and just a car. Enjoy it. Drive it like you just stole it.

 

What I have asked other "collectors" is rather vulgar, but it makes my point. Imagine yourself married to the most beautiful Hollywood star that comes to your mind. Annette Benning is my choice.

 

But my question is, would you f**k her?, or, just look at her parked in yur garage?

 

 

 

Yeah...That's what I thought...

[dmagner1]

I have owned and modded several 2003+ Ford products.

 

I favor 4:10 gears for this car, and I am making my upgrade plans now. Hell, since I was 16, 4:10s have been the best street/strip gear.

 

I'd like to have an exhaust system more open, i.e. headers, larger OD pipes, and Shelby tips. Nonetheless, without any of this, the OEM exhaust as it comes from SAI is fine. I too, don't listen to the radio much, I'd rather listenn to my SGT.

 

Remember, it's only a 281 CID engine, you can kill the torque with too large a pipe.

 

Ditto the Shelby GT suspension, front and rear. Well planned and very functional. Love it the way it sits and handles in the twisties. No upgrades considered or planned.

 

I do not favor UD pulleys without a professional dyno tune. They can cause too much hidden damage you won't learn about until its over. Crank vibration is critical to engine longevity, and you don't get that much power from UD pulleys anyway, when you have a manual tranny.

 

I favor intercooled centrifugal supercharging, but within stock engine limitations i.e., 6-8 PSI of boost. This is more than enough power to keep my SGT fun to driive without risking the stock engine.

 

I do not recommend NOS or any "juice" at all. Much too unpredictable, and I have yet to meet a tuner who knows what he's doing with the bottle. Juice is steroids, I say screw the medical problems associated with the drug.

 

Any modding is a high energy decision, the question you need to ask/answer in your heart is "how much fun do I want to have today" vs. "what I hope the car may be worth 20+ years from now".

 

I believe the answer is obvious. Go for the "fun today" because in 20/30+ years, who knows? Dayum, will you even be alive then?

 

One or two Barret-Jackson auctions mean nothing, the long term value of our SGTs is mystical at best. However, if you can afford to park your SGT for 20/30 some years and maintain it in showroom condition, go for it.

 

IMHO, I drive my SGT every chance I get, and I'm slowing modding it. Appearance for now, but I will be hard-core performance by the spring of '08.

 

I don't drive it everyday because the weather is chancy here in Chicago this time of year, and I don't want to lose a fender to "Ms. I'm running late, need to get my eye makeup on and talk to Bill at the office all at the same time" driver behind me. But, LuLu gets out, and she's getting better. This is my Shelby GT, and she will be dressed for work.

 

From your post, I cannot imagine how much fun you are willing to step aside from, only you know this.

 

However, I have bought "rare" and "1x" Ford automobiles before, and lost out on the day-to-day vs. preservation fun every time. Hell, my most expensive Ford product took a nose-dive just because the developer retired. Go figure?

 

Carroll Shelby is 75, right? And, he isn't going to live forever. Once he passes from our ranks, only the cars he personally touched will have any value. Those of us who shopped at a dealership, are/will be second/third rung on the ladder. Sorry, those aren't good numbers to me, I'd rather drive the hell out of my SGT today, than wonder about what it may be worth long after I have joined Mr. Shelby...

 

Just my .02C, carry on gents, and Happy hanksgiving.

 

PS...It's a car, and just a car. Enjoy it. Drive it like you just stole it.

 

What I have asked other "collectors" is rather vulgar, but it makes my point. Imagine yourself married to the most beautiful Hollywood star that comes to your mind. Annette Benning is my choice.

 

But my question is, would you f**k her?, or, just look at her parked in yur garage?

Yeah...That's what I thought...

 

No Carroll Shelby will be 85 not 75 :angry:

[AFBLUE]

Hey turn that frown upside down

[07SHELBY GT]

People worried about what these may be worth is rather interesting.As I have posted before the future value is a guess at best,Remember back in the day,I'll speak for my father here as he bought a new 69 428 SCJ Mach I,Street racing was huge,He was installing headers,cam,2 holley 3 barrels(Anybody remember those),Soon after purchase,He wrecked it a time or two,Winters in New York also took their toll.Traded it in on a family wagon in 71' or 72'.Lot's of these cars were raced,Wrecked and permanently removed from the streets,Not garaged and waxed,So there are a lot less left.If we all wax and garage these things and give it an attrition rate of only say 10-15 % most of them will still be around in 20 yrs.So do as you will with em',But i wouldn't be too worried about mods that don't leave a mark,Tunes,Suspension work,Some internal upgrades.Now if you cut the roof off an 07 SGT because you really got to have a convertible you're screwed!My mods so far are a Brenspeed tune and an axleback Flowmaster setup,No permanent damage,Yet!

[clark17357]

I have owned and modded several 2003+ Ford products.

Hi LuLu,

 

Need to send you a PM but it reports yours is either disabled or full. PM me back with how to get my message to you. I think my e-mail address is available on this Forum but, if not, I can get that for you. Thanks. Jim

[LuLu]

Hi LuLu,

 

Need to send you a PM but it reports yours is either disabled or full. PM me back with how to get my message to you. I think my e-mail address is available on this Forum but, if not, I can get that for you. Thanks. Jim

 

Try "SergntMac@aol.com" Use "Hi Mac" as the subject to get past my spam filters.

[goesfast]

Great review LuLu!! You are very correct and accurate. Enjoy your car!

[SGT3517]

Great review LuLu!! You are very correct and accurate. Enjoy your car!

 

 

Has anybody dabbled with the Ford Racing 3V heads and a cam package? Will the JLT cold air work with our stock filter and mass air? I wanna get rid of my nasty rubber accordian intake. Anybody running cat delete? What kind of power gains are people seeing with a more aggressive tune and bolt-ons? Anybody passing 300 RWHP in N/A form?

[LuLu]

Has anybody dabbled with the Ford Racing 3V heads and a cam package?

 

Sorry, I can't find any 3V heads in the 2007 FRP catalogue, maybe I should call for recent updates? What I see listed are improved heads, valves trains, and such for 2V and 4V engines, but nothing listed for the 3V...Yet.

Will the JLT cold air work with our stock filter and mass air? I wanna get rid of my nasty rubber accordian intake.

 

If you have an SGT, the Ford Racing CAI kit is perfect for the car, a JLT kit will not deliver more power.

 

However, you have a good point about the OEM bellows (intake tube, aka "zip tube"). It's true that irregular internal surfaces cause turbulence and cost power, and I'd like to see an improved bellows myself. But, I am not willing to buy another complete CAI kit just for this one part. Perhaps if we joined together for a "group buy", we could make some inquiries with suppliers and buy only what we need to address this.

 

Remember one thing, the SGT has the FRP Power Upgrade Package (M-2006-FR1) which includes a 90mm MAF. Most off-the-shelf kits offered today are designed for the stock Mustang GT 80mm MAF, and we may need something "custom". However, this is the power of a group buy, to get what we want/need, at the best price possible price.

Anybody running cat delete?

 

I cannot support "CAT delete". This is illegal by FED law, and I live in Illinois too, where the IEAP is very aggressive in pursuing violations of emissions requirements. If you think it's that important to performance, there are high-flow cats available which keep things legal and in compliance, but if you get caught without cats (at least here in Illinois), your car can be seized, and it can cost you heavy fines.

 

It almost happened to me a while ago and it was shear luck that I wanted sell my car and restored the OEM exhaust system just a week before agents from the IL. Attorney General showed up at my house with warrants and a tow truck. Seems they raided a local muffler shop and seized business records, and set out to inspect every car on ever serviced there. That shop is still closed today.

 

I say "never again" and if you are serious about CAT performance, read up here? This is good stuff I recommend. I have used it myself, and passed all inspections and emission tests.

 

http://www.randomtechnology.com/

 

What kind of power gains are people seeing with a more aggressive tune and bolt-ons? Anybody passing 300 RWHP in N/A form?

 

Shortly after my 1000 mile break-in, I dynoed LuLu at Simpson Racing. Bone stock with 93 octane, LuLu delivered 275 RWHP and 302 RWTQ. Corey (Simpson) said my tune was running really rich, and I could pick up some more power by cleaning it up. He added that 300+ RWHP/325 RWTQ was very very possible with headers and his tune. Corey favors JBL 3V bolt-in design headers (likewise as Shelby).

 

Remember, the pursuit of HP is one thing which I understand well. But, it's torque that moves the car, so, select your mods by how much torque improvement they deliver, and the HP will follow.

 

Note: When it comes to custom tuning, watch your air/fuel very closely. Detonation will kill these engines before you know they are sick. All you need is one tank of sub-standard fuel, and an eager right foot, and ...Oops. "Hello, triple A?" Been there, did that.

 

Hope this helps, carry on gents.

[SGT3517]

Ford Racing 3V heads

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05gtkbp.htm

Lots of mods for 05-08 Mustangs. Everything is categorized on the left hand column.

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05gt.htm

[07SHELBY GT]

Ford Racing 3V heads

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05gtkbp.htm

Lots of mods for 05-08 Mustangs. Everything is categorized on the left hand column.

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05gt.htm

 

Brenspeed sells a Steeda cold air kit elbow made of hard plastic that is a direct replacement for your accordion style elbow as the Ford racing cold air kit is made by Steeda,This part didn't work well for me,Think I overtightened and incorrectly positioned the clamps,But it goes for $109,There is also a Carbon Fiber elbow available but it is about twice the price.Hope this helps in your need for speed!

[LuLu]

Ford Racing 3V heads

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05gtkbp.htm

Lots of mods for 05-08 Mustangs. Everything is categorized on the left hand column.

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/05gt.htm

 

Yep, you're right. Running the part numbers, I'm directed to page 50 of the catalogue, where the P/N is assigned to the PI 2V heads, without any mention of any 3V heads. However, paging through the catalogue from front to rear, I find the 3V heads on page 24. Sloppy 11th hour catalogue prep if you ask me.

 

You have to be careful with FRPs predictions of "gains". They speak in "percentages" taken from test engines on brake/bench dynos with other accessories in play, i.e. a particular header, and no engine accessories such as A/C and P/S pumps. This can be misleading, and disappointing once you bolt everything together. For the 2800.00 investment in parts alone, I'm not sure a 40-50 HP gain is in the "bang for the buck" numbers. I followed this theory on one of Marauders, and learned that it's cheaper and higher bang for the buck with a mild supercharging treatment. But, this is for you to decide.

 

Happy motoring!

[LuLu]

Here's trhe Steeda bellows in plastic...Looks like exactly what we need.

 

http://www.steeda.com/products/s197_inlet_tube.php

 

Here's the Steeda bellows in CF...Very nice and reasonably priced for true CF.

 

http://www.steeda.com/products/s197_carbon..._inlet_tube.php

[DreamRide]

Here's trhe Steeda bellows in plastic...Looks like exactly what we need.

 

http://www.steeda.com/products/s197_inlet_tube.php

 

Here's the Steeda bellows in CF...Very nice and reasonably priced for true CF.

 

http://www.steeda.com/products/s197_carbon..._inlet_tube.php

 

 

 

Annette looked great in that movie "Open Range"........................

[RogerS]

Significant mods. Whipple HO, 1 piece drive shaft, MSD coil packs, powdercoated valve covers, complete magnaflow exhaust, hi-flow cats, 3" cat back w/magnapacks, upper and lower control arms, watts link pending, baer extreem brake kit, 20x9 and 20x10 CS69 wheels, carbon fiber steering wheel, pending, rear seat delete w/pkg tray, roll bar, billet hood pin kit, functional front and rear brake duct kit, gauge pac, custom embroidered headrest, console covers, leather shift boot, 35% window tint, CS hood, black upper and lower grilles, Custom xcal 3 tune, custome horn button and rear gas cap inserts, shorty antenna, log jam electronics i-pod conversion. More just can't remember all of the planned mods left to do.

[SGT2666]

Significant mods. Whipple HO, 1 piece drive shaft, MSD coil packs, powdercoated valve covers, complete magnaflow exhaust, hi-flow cats, 3" cat back w/magnapacks, upper and lower control arms, watts link pending, baer extreem brake kit, 20x9 and 20x10 CS69 wheels, carbon fiber steering wheel, pending, rear seat delete w/pkg tray, roll bar, billet hood pin kit, functional front and rear brake duct kit, gauge pac, custom embroidered headrest, console covers, leather shift boot, 35% window tint, CS hood, black upper and lower grilles, Custom xcal 3 tune, custome horn button and rear gas cap inserts, shorty antenna, log jam electronics i-pod conversion. More just can't remember all of the planned mods left to do.

 

 

WILDMAN !!! :D

[LuLu]

Annette looked great in that movie "Open Range"........................

 

Yep...You bet!

[DreamRide]

Yep...You bet!

 

 

She would not be parked in the garage eithier............................ :D

[SGT3517]

2800 for heads isnt bad when the whipple kit costs about 56-5800 depending on which site you look at. Plus the cost of install. A Head/Cam and install package would save about $3000 versus the whipple...granted less gains, but also less cost and no worry of the stock bottom blowing to pieces years down the road. No one knows the long term effects of boosted 3Vs yet. Everyone says they've been holding up fine but I have hung around way too many speed shops to know it's not a matter of if...but when will the stock bottom give on boosted applications. I have also seen it first hand.

[Milstang]

Significant mods. Whipple HO, 1 piece drive shaft, MSD coil packs, powdercoated valve covers, complete magnaflow exhaust, hi-flow cats, 3" cat back w/magnapacks, upper and lower control arms, watts link pending, baer extreem brake kit, 20x9 and 20x10 CS69 wheels, carbon fiber steering wheel, pending, rear seat delete w/pkg tray, roll bar, billet hood pin kit, functional front and rear brake duct kit, gauge pac, custom embroidered headrest, console covers, leather shift boot, 35% window tint, CS hood, black upper and lower grilles, Custom xcal 3 tune, custome horn button and rear gas cap inserts, shorty antenna, log jam electronics i-pod conversion. More just can't remember all of the planned mods left to do.

 

 

Good grief! Left me in the dust. I have a lot more planned, but have to budget it out some more. I can't wait to see your car someday!

[69dejavue]

Good grief! Left me in the dust. I have a lot more planned, but have to budget it out some more. I can't wait to see your car someday!

 

 

Concur re the addition of heads, headers, aluminum drive shaft, having less effect on the bottom end of the engine. For the money it may be the safest long term additions. The three combined should be good for at least 50 HP. The aluminum drive shaft may actually lessen potential damage to the bottom end.

 

LuLu, and others, Carroll Shelby is 84 not 75. I say this only so we know he really won't be around forever. He is one of the longest surving heart transplant patients.

Don't know what his eventual death will have on the company or the price of the vehicles.

[Cobrawertz_merged]

Good grief! Left me in the dust. I have a lot more planned, but have to budget it out some more. I can't wait to see your car someday!

 

 

Roger's car is secretly the prototype for the SuperSnake. If he shows up at a car show you're at just give him the best in show and hope for the scraps !

[SGT2666]

Move along nothin to see here

[SGT2666]

Whipple 11psi Supercharger / Intercooler

20" Privat Netz Wheels

Roush rear wing

Shelby upper console trim

Shelby door sill trim

Shelby billet lower grill

Steeda billet LCA's spherical bearings

Steeda chromoly adjustable UCA

Steeda Urethane front LCA bushings

Fays2 Watts Link

Aligning for -1.3 camber

Speed of sound guage pillar

Autometer Phantom II Boost guage

Autometer Phantom II Fuel Pressure guage

Shelby fog light and brake duct kit

Blinder M25 Extreme

Valentine one

 

Wiaiting SPP for the fog light brake duct kit, and the hope is at that point I"m done

[LuLu]

I've done it both ways, build the engine from the bottom up and run on motor, and not touch a stock engine other than to add bolt on power with a blower. Let's talk money?

 

Building the engine is less expensive, but it's permanent. Rather than argue gains, let's agree for the sake of this post, that you do everything just right and pick-up (and I am being very generous here) 75 RWHP/75 RWTQ. for about 4K?

 

OTOH, take a stock SGT with a standard 4.6L-3V, and add a blower kit of choice with conservative boost, 8 PSI is very safe on a stock engine. The kits available are complete nuts and bolts bolt-ons, with intercooler options. Again, just for the sake of this post, we agree that you do everything just right, and you pick up 100 RWHP and 100 RWTQ. The kits average 5200-5500 bucks. That only 1500 bucks more.

 

If you can change a spark plug, you can install a blower kit. The better you are as a DIY wrench, the sooner it will be up and running, But almost anyone can do it, given enough time, correct tools, and patience.

 

Now comes a time when you want to sell your SGT for whatever reason. Your custom built 4K engine goes with the car, and the fact that it is a custom built engine works against you. Used cars with custom engines are not as sought after as stock engine cars, and the existence of a built engine tends to lower the value and limit your curb appeal. Low ball offers from young men who's voice is still changing. Even if this isn't true, it is a guarantee that you will not recover your 4K investment in the engine.

 

But, if you do things the other way, you can restore your SGT to bone stock condition and get a fair market value with wider curb appear, PLUS, resell the blower kit and recover maybe as much as 60-70 percent of that investment as a used but well cared for bolt on kit.

 

We can continue to argue the wear and tear to a stock engine, we all have our opinions about how to go fast, and which way is the best way to get that done. But, do it right and keep it conservative, and the car should stay together a very long time. Thus, strictly from a dolllars and sense point of view, bolting is better than building, IMHO.

 

Just my .02C gents, carry on.

[ShelbyGT#3658]

Shortly after my 1000 mile break-in, I dynoed LuLu at Simpson Racing. Bone stock with 93 octane, LuLu delivered 275 RWHP and 302 RWTQ. Corey (Simpson) said my tune was running really rich, and I could pick up some more power by cleaning it up. He added that 300+ RWHP/325 RWTQ was very very possible with headers and his tune. Corey favors JBL 3V bolt-in design headers (likewise as Shelby).

 

Mine runs rich too. I can see black inside the rear pipes. I wonder if they were all tuned that way?

[SGT2666]

I've done it both ways, build the engine from the bottom up and run on motor, and not touch a stock engine other than to add bolt on power with a blower. Let's talk money?

 

Building the engine is less expensive, but it's permanent. Rather than argue gains, let's agree for the sake of this post, that you do everything just right and pick-up (and I am being very generous here) 75 RWHP/75 RWTQ. for about 4K?

 

OTOH, take a stock SGT with a standard 4.6L-3V, and add a blower kit of choice with conservative boost, 8 PSI is very safe on a stock engine. The kits available are complete nuts and bolts bolt-ons, with intercooler options. Again, just for the sake of this post, we agree that you do everything just right, and you pick up 100 RWHP and 100 RWTQ. The kits average 5200-5500 bucks. That only 1500 bucks more.

 

If you can change a spark plug, you can install a blower kit. The better you are as a DIY wrench, the sooner it will be up and running, But almost anyone can do it, given enough time, correct tools, and patience.

 

Now comes a time when you want to sell your SGT for whatever reason. Your custom built 4K engine goes with the car, and the fact that it is a custom built engine works against you. Used cars with custom engines are not as sought after as stock engine cars, and the existence of a built engine tends to lower the value and limit your curb appeal. Low ball offers from young men who's voice is still changing. Even if this isn't true, it is a guarantee that you will not recover your 4K investment in the engine.

 

But, if you do things the other way, you can restore your SGT to bone stock condition and get a fair market value with wider curb appear, PLUS, resell the blower kit and recover maybe as much as 60-70 percent of that investment as a used but well cared for bolt on kit.

 

We can continue to argue the wear and tear to a stock engine, we all have our opinions about how to go fast, and which way is the best way to get that done. But, do it right and keep it conservative, and the car should stay together a very long time. Thus, strictly from a dolllars and sense point of view, bolting is better than building, IMHO.

 

Just my .02C gents, carry on.

 

 

+1