Rev limiter @ 6500 for Bullit-

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Is there any engine changes that make the Bullit have more rev's than the SGT? Can we safely add that extra 250 RPM's to our cars with out damaging them? I am always hiting my rev limiter and it craps out just when the car is performing at its best. That extra 250 rpm's is important or Ford would have never input it into the Bullitt!

[ducatirider2]

If nothing has been changed internally, raising the rev limiter should be able to be done by any the tuners. Brenspeed, are you there?

[SWEDESHELBY1]

If nothing has been changed internally, raising the rev limiter should be able to be done by any the tuners. Brenspeed, are you there?

 

 

I have the Brenspeed tune and I like it! I was asking though if you could tell me why they would raise the rev limiter 250 rpm's and have ours @ 250 lower? This is odd.

Hmmmmmm...

[07SHELBY GT]

I'll do some research as this perplexes me also.I have been told that 6500 RPM's is a no no with the powdered metal rods so..........................

[Webba]

All I have read on the Bullit says it is the saem motor as ours Swede. It must be the Ford tune. They must have faith in it or they wouldnt be giving out a warranty. More info from Ford should shed some light on this.

[DreamRide]

All I have read on the Bullit says it is the saem motor as ours Swede. It must be the Ford tune. They must have faith in it or they wouldnt be giving out a warranty. More info from Ford should shed some light on this.

 

 

 

Its the internal pressures that are a never exceed (Enter Number here) with the rod's ie: blowers, NO2, ect.....

 

 

All they did was put a 6500 redline tach in the car and changed the perameters of the tune. Those motors can take alot, N/A of course. Cylinder pressures are what kills the powdered rods

 

 

 

Ok, I take some back. If you watch this video, The desighner mentions crank dampners that have been added...............

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...id=ga43150120#6

 

 

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Thanks. I can't under stand why they did not let us enjoy the same redline though. I like the cars performance but just when the rev limiter comes on it just kills it! I think 6500 would be a great addition to our cars but the warranty says "yes" to Bullitt and "no" to Shelby GT, bad deal.

[CudaFly]

Is there any engine changes that make the Bullit have more rev's than the SGT? Can we safely add that extra 250 RPM's to our cars with out damaging them? I am always hiting my rev limiter and it craps out just when the car is performing at its best. That extra 250 rpm's is important or Ford would have never input it into the Bullitt!

 

Pretty much all of the supercharged SGT's with custom tunes will have the rev limiter set over 6000 rpm's. Mine is set at 6500 and max boost and RWHP is reached between 6000 and 6500. There is a BIG differnece in the performance with the shift point at ~6400 RPM's.

 

Obviously this will put more stress on the mechanical limits of the 4.6L 3v engine. But if you want to play you have to pay.

 

[07SHELBY GT]

Well put!I believe the saying is,"Speed costs money,So how fast do you want to go"Should be how fast can you afford to go!

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Pretty much all of the supercharged SGT's with custom tunes will have the rev limiter set over 6000 rpm's. Mine is set at 6500 and max boost and RWHP is reached between 6000 and 6500. There is a BIG differnece in the performance with the shift point at ~6400 RPM's.

 

Obviously this will put more stress on the mechanical limits of the 4.6L 3v engine. But if you want to play you have to pay.

 

 

 

Thanks for the answer. I think Ford and the Bullitt have it right on. They know the redline @ 6500 RPMs make all the difference in performance. I used to shift my 289 @ 6500 all the time and loved the way way it responed when I did it. Now when I shift @ 6200 (due to the rev limiter) the performance of the car is, well, not satisfactory to me and it just does not have the premium torque and power when shifting @ 6500. Now that Ford has made the redline @ 6500 and put in 373 gears I'll bet that the Bullit would beat the SGT in the 1/4 mile even though times are listed as the same. It just makes sense with the power set up the way it is in the Bullitt. I love the SGt's appearance but it has always bothered me with the lack of hp, I think I must either have a Whipple SC installed by SAI or go to a GT500. Just love the power in the 1/4 mile, I am not the road racer type which the SGT is set up for. There are a bunch of strong cornering cars out there but many less factory high hp cars cars that gives the rush of quick 1/4 mile time. The more i think of it the Bullitt is the pefect car from the factory at the right price. Design ques can be added for very little monery but they have the engine and performance mods done professionally & right straight from the factory. Gotta love it, Go FOMOCO!

[clawsonbob]

Thanks for the answer. I think Ford and the Bullitt have it right on. They know the redline @ 6500 RPMs make all the difference in performance. I used to shift my 289 @ 6500 all the time and loved the way way it responed when I did it. Now when I shift @ 6200 (due to the rev limiter) the performance of the car is, well, not satisfactory to me and it just does not have the premium torque and power when shifting @ 6500. Now that Ford has made the redline @ 6500 and put in 373 gears I'll bet that the Bullit would beat the SGT in the 1/4 mile even though times are listed as the same. It just makes sense with the power set up the way it is in the Bullitt. I love the SGt's appearance but it has always bothered me with the lack of hp, I think I must either have a Whipple SC installed by SAI or go to a GT500. Just love the power in the 1/4 mile, I am not the road racer type which the SGT is set up for. There are a bunch of strong cornering cars out there but many less factory high hp cars cars that gives the rush of quick 1/4 mile time. The more i think of it the Bullitt is the pefect car from the factory at the right price. Design ques can be added for very little monery but they have the engine and performance mods done professionally & right straight from the factory. Gotta love it, Go FOMOCO!

 

 

Swede...before you think of trading in the sgt for da bullit...just raise your rev limit via custom tune....My SC'd car is set for 6500 ( no gauarantees it wont blow, but i ain't too worried about it nor was my capable tuner)

 

also, its very hard to feel major performance diffs , even between a 12.5 sec car and a 12 sec car...and I doubt theres even 2/10s diff with the bullet, if that

 

You have to move down to about a 9.5 sec machine before you really start scaring the crap outta yourself.

 

why don't yor just sc your car ( blower of choice) AND WITH 400+ LBS LESS THAT A 500, you will really enjoy the sgt. most of us won't live long enough to worry bout wether its a "registered" sc or just an sai sc or a non-logo'ed whipple sc..just my 2 cents

[goesfast]

Agreed, if you want more "snap", jus add a S/C. There are plenty to choose from out there. I think anything in the 400HP range would really wake the car up. Then you would really notice a difference!

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Swede...before you think of trading in the sgt for da bullit...just raise your rev limit via custom tune....My SC'd car is set for 6500 ( no gauarantees it wont blow, but i ain't too worried about it nor was my capable tuner)

 

also, its very hard to feel major performance diffs , even between a 12.5 sec car and a 12 sec car...and I doubt theres even 2/10s diff with the bullet, if that

 

You have to move down to about a 9.5 sec machine before you really start scaring the crap outta yourself.

 

why don't yor just sc your car ( blower of choice) AND WITH 400+ LBS LESS THAT A 500, you will really enjoy the sgt. most of us won't live long enough to worry bout wether its a "registered" sc or just an sai sc or a non-logo'ed whipple sc..just my 2 cents

 

 

Thank you Bikerbob, really. I think my next mod is 410's at this time. I love my car.... but well I won't even say it as you know exactly how I feel about the hp. I got the car I wanted when the Shelby was purchased, I just did not get the 'complete" car I wanted when I bought the Shelby. But before I trade it I will explore many options until I arrive at that fateful day. B)

[DreamRide]

Thank you Bikerbob, really. I think my next mod is 410's at this time. I love my car.... but well I won't even say it as you know exactly how I feel about the hp. I got the car I wanted when the Shelby was purchased, I just did not get the 'complete" car I wanted when I bought the Shelby. But before I trade it I will explore many options until I arrive at that fateful day. B)

 

 

 

Gears will definitly wake that bad up.....................

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Ok in the Edmonds Video it says it has inside engine modifications that is why this Bullitt can be pushed to 6500 RPM's, I have never heard of them before but the engineer ssays it has upgraded " internal crank dampers" that allows it to handle the 6500 RPM's???? Internal "Crank Dampers" has anyone ever heard of these?. This quote comes from the Bullitt engineer.

[clawsonbob]

Ok in the Edmonds Video it says it has inside engine modifications that is why this Bullitt can be pushed to 6500 RPM's, I have never heard of them before but the engineer ssays it has upgraded " internal crank dampers" that allows it to handle the 6500 RPM's???? Internal "Crank Dampers" has anyone ever heard of these?. This quote comes from the Bullitt engineer.

 

 

 

yes........"crank dampers" are elongated counter-balance shafts made of high-temper, carbon steel, with a berryllium-nitrate coating. These shafts are used to beat back crankey Ford shareholders every time quartelry earnings/(losses) are released to the public. ( ergo "crank-dampers")

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DreamRide]

yes........"crank dampers" are elongated counter-balance shafts made of high-temper, carbon steel, with a berryllium-nitrate coating. These shafts are used to beat back crankey Ford shareholders every time quartelry earnings/(losses) are released to the public. ( ergo "crank-dampers")

 

 

 

 

 

I need one for the wife...............

[SWEDESHELBY1]

yes........"crank dampers" are elongated counter-balance shafts made of high-temper, carbon steel, with a berryllium-nitrate coating. These shafts are used to beat back crankey Ford shareholders every time quartelry earnings/(losses) are released to the public. ( ergo "crank-dampers")

 

 

Ahahahahahah

 

Seriously, what are they and why would he say such a thing? I have never heard of them before!!!!

[LuLu]

Its the internal pressures that are a never exceed (Enter Number here) with the rod's ie: blowers, NO2, ect.....

All they did was put a 6500 redline tach in the car and changed the perameters of the tune. Those motors can take alot, N/A of course. Cylinder pressures are what kills the powdered rods

Ok, I take some back. If you watch this video, The desighner mentions crank dampners that have been added...............

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...id=ga43150120#6

 

To my knowledge, no 4.6L short block is internally balanced from the factory, only in custom builds.

 

The crank dampner is an external component attached to the crank snout and it has a pulley. Since the base 4.6L-3V engine is used in dozens of applications, I could see FMC engineers upgrading to a revised dampner considering the high performance intent of this car. This dampner improvement may allow a few extra RPMs as well.

 

Cylinder pressure as you mention, Ed, doesn't really have that much to do with rod failure. Excessive boost and lean tuning will destroy the stock piston from the top, but the rods take the downforce rather well. After all, they are created with high pressure molding of...powdered metal.

 

What kills a PM stock rod, is crankcase pressure from below created in abrupt and rapid deceleration from high RPMs. The rods were not designed to withstand being pulled apart like taffey. Slowly, this damage accrues and creates a weak spot in the rod. Once this happens, your fate is sealed, and until that last fatal decel, there's no real way to prevent it, or, detect it. I've attached a pic of a stretched rod (hope I did it right) and you can see how the rod just pulled apart in the center, at it's thinest point. Once this happens, you will be very lucky to not window the block, or, lose the crank.

 

My advice (and the way I drive) is to not suddenly jump off the throttle after a high RPM blast. Rather, ease out of it. The resistence of crankcase pressure against the underside of the piston is what causes this stretching, and it's 10x that of downforce cylinder pressure from a blower, or NOS. IMHO, our stock 4.6L3-V engines are very durable and should be fine (with a professional dyno tune) up to the 475 RWHP neighborhood, and this is quite a respectable neighborhood. However, push it over 500 RWHP, and keep your check book and AAA card handy. You're going to be buying a new engine soon.

 

Hope this helps.

[SWEDESHELBY1]

To my knowledge, no 4.6L short block is internally balanced from the factory, only in custom builds.

 

The crank dampner is an external component, and since the base 4.6L-3V engine is used in dozens of applications, I could see FMC engineers upgrading a revised dampner considering the high performance intent of this car. That dampner improvement may allow a few extra RPMs as well.

 

Cylinder pressure as you mention doesn't really have that much to do with rod failure. Excessive boost and lean tuning will destroy the stock piston design, but the rods take the downforce rather well. After all, they are created with high pressure molding of...powdered metal.

 

What kills a PM stock rod, is crankcase pressure in abrupt and rapid deceleration from high RPMs. The rods were not designed to withstand being pulled apart like taffey. Slowly, this damage accrues and creates a weak spot in the rod. Once this happens, your fate is sealed, and until that last fatal decel, there's no real way to prevent it, or, detect it. I've attached a pic of a stretched (hope I did it right) and you can see how the rod just pulled apart. Once this happens, you will be very licky to not window the block, or, lose the crank.

 

My advice (and the way I drive) is to not suddenly jump off the throttle after a high RPM blast. Rather, ease out of it. The resistence of crankcase pressure against the underside of the piston is what causes this stretching, and it's 10x that of downforce cylinder pressure from a blower, or NOS.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

So the engine in the "new" Bullitt is a better designed engine due to reinforced crank dampeners? The engineer says that is why they can add 250 RPM's to this motor becuase of that. Lulu you seem to have a handle on this please explain if it is a better engine than our SGT engines- Well I guess I can answer that if you can add 250 RPMs to the redline then it must be or FOMOCO would not warranty it if it wasn't. Cheaper car better motor! Ugh!!!!! Good job & kudos to the Bullitt engineers!!!

[LuLu]

So the engine in the "new" Bullitt is a better designed engine due to reinforced crank dampeners? The engineer says that is why they can add 250 RPM's to this motor becuase of that. Lulu you seem to have a handle on this please explain if it is a better engine than our SGT engines- Well I guess I can answer that if you can add 250 RPMs to the redline then it must be or FOMOCO would not warranty it if it wasn't. Cheaper car better motor! Ugh!!!!! Good job & kudos to the Bullitt engineers!!!

 

It's the same engine, just a different bolt-on crank dampner. You can add one yourself if you wish to take advantage of a new design. There are dozens available from the aftermarket.

 

Whether this is revised dampner is related to the extra 250 RPMs, I can't say. Ford tuned the Bullitt the way they wanted, and our SGTs have a Ford Racing calibration. Two totally different animals in my opinion, and to be honest about it, I do not believe there is any more power in the difference. At that speed, 250 RPMs passes in the blink of eye.

 

The truth won't be known until a bone stock Bullitt is strapped down on a dyno for the real world examination, and I am not expecting much difference at all. Guess we'll just have to wait and see?

[DreamRide]

It's the same engine, just a different bolt-on crank dampner. You can one yourself if you wish to take advantage of a new design.

 

Whether this is revised dampner is related to the extra 250 RPMs, I can't say. Ford tuned the Bullitt the way they wanted to, and our SGTs have a Ford Racing calibration. Two different animals in my opinion, and to be honest about it, I do not believe there is any more power in the difference. At that speed, 250 RPMs passes in the blink of eye.

 

The truth won't be known until a bone stock Bullitt is strapped down on a dyno for the real world examination, and I am not expecting much difference at all. Guess we'll just have to wait and see?

 

 

 

The engine sounds better when its reving that high..............

[LuLu]

Here's a pic a generic 4.6L crank dampner, some folks call them "harmonic balancers".

 

http://www.karkraft.com/New%20Parts%20918.jpg

 

The way I see it, FMC spent a lot of time and money to bring the modular engine design into play, and they got their money's worth too. With minor exceptions, it has been in use virtually unchanged since 1993. Improving the crank dampner is an easy task, and it won't upset the value of modular engines at large.

 

FMC's goal was to reduce production costs by not having to redesign an engine for a specific application, thus, our SGTs have the same base 3V engine as any '07 police car, taxi cab, even F-150s.

 

What Shelby adds to it in performance goodies, is where our added power comes from. The 4.6L block can be used with 2V, 3V and 4V heads, and many other components are interchangable as well.

 

Honestly, I am not expecting the Bullitt to be any faster than our SGTs, but again, we'll just have to wait and see. I don't know much about Bullitt suspension tweaking and other stuff, and we may still be the top dog in N/A pony car performance. I know we'll run them off the road in road course racing.

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Here's a pic a generic 4.6L crank dampner, some folks call them "harmonic balancers".

 

http://www.karkraft.com/New%20Parts%20918.jpg

 

The way I see it, FMC spent a lot of time and money to bring the modular engine design into play, and they got their money's worth too. With minor exceptions, it has been in use virtually unchanged since 1993. Improving the crank dampner is an easy task, and it won't upset the value of modular engines at large.

 

FMC's goal was to reduce production costs by not having to redesign an engine for a specific application, thus, our SGTs have the same base 3V engine as any '07 police car, taxi cab, even F-150s.

 

What Shelby adds to it in performance goodies, is where our added power comes from. The 4.6L block can be used with 2V, 3V and 4V heads, and many other components are interchangable as well.

 

Honestly, I am not expecting the Bullitt to be any faster than our SGTs, but again, we'll just have to wait and see. I don't know much about Bullitt suspension tweaking and other stuff, and we may still be the top dog in N/A pony car performance. I know we'll run them off the road in road course racing.

 

Whoa...A crank dampener is a harmonic balancer with the big name? Hahahahahahah- The HB I had on my 1966 GT K Model car also made a huge difference with the K Model engine rev's, I shifted that car @ 6500++ for many years with out ever any issues at all. I took all I could give it and more. So that is why it has a 2" HB to a regular 1 inch stock one. If I input the 2" "crank dampner" would that give me more rev's , say 65-6700 RPM's vs 6250?

Thanks ~

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Is there any engine changes that make the Bullit have more rev's than the SGT? Can we safely add that extra 250 RPM's to our cars with out damaging them? I am always hiting my rev limiter and it craps out just when the car is performing at its best. That extra 250 rpm's is important or Ford would have never input it into the Bullitt!

 

 

PS: I am trying not to spend so much time on this forum or the internet in general any more, even though I like Shelby Mustangs. So I'll catch up with you guys later. I am sure everyone will miss Swede and his "more horse power" rantings!