SGT2666 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I've put the 11psi Whipple on my car and it makes great power but even with 285's on the back traction in the first two gears is a bit sketchy. I read about cars like the new Nissan GTR that is doing 11.7 quarters right out of the box and is a fierce handler as well and I wonder what it takes to get that done. I don't see any inherent benefit to having full independent suspension for getting out of the hole. So what does it take? Can we have a car that gets out of the hole hard without sacrificing handling? It seems there must be tradeoffs or the manufacturers would have given us the right geometry from the get go. Just interested in what you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I've put the 11psi Whipple on my car and it makes great power but even with 285's on the back traction in the first two gears is a bit sketchy. I read about cars like the new Nissan GTR that is doing 11.7 quarters right out of the box and is a fierce handler as well and I wonder what it takes to get that done. I don't see any inherent benefit to having full independent suspension for getting out of the hole. So what does it take? Can we have a car that gets out of the hole hard without sacrificing handling? It seems there must be tradeoffs or the manufacturers would have given us the right geometry from the get go. Just interested in what you guys think. When I bought my 07 SGT, it was my impression that Shelby's intent was to produce a daily driver/weekend road racer, and the suspension was tailored for that purpose. However, I have owned several high horsepower automobiles and I understand the lure to drag racing. Keep in mind, Shelby's own advice on this is to avoid hole shots, or, power shifting. IMHO, the rear suspension present is fine for most applications, however, if you are getting some wheel hop and fishtailing at launch, you won't exploit your full potential. For decent 1/4 times, you have to launch straight and hard, and my advice is to look into adjustable upper and lower control arms and sub-frame connectors, as well as a one-piece driveshaft. Happy Motoring! BTW, what RPMs are you launching at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I've put the 11psi Whipple on my car and it makes great power but even with 285's on the back traction in the first two gears is a bit sketchy. I read about cars like the new Nissan GTR that is doing 11.7 quarters right out of the box and is a fierce handler as well and I wonder what it takes to get that done. I don't see any inherent benefit to having full independent suspension for getting out of the hole. So what does it take? Can we have a car that gets out of the hole hard without sacrificing handling? It seems there must be tradeoffs or the manufacturers would have given us the right geometry from the get go. Just interested in what you guys think. Several guys on here have gone with the Watts link, other rear UCAs, gears and a adjustable panhard rod to center the rear axle. From some reason removing the front sway bar helps in straight runs. I don't know why but I'm sure some of the racers will explain. Me personally I'll eventually go with the stiffer panhard rod, and gears. I think that will do me fine since my car is for street only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 From some reason removing the front sway bar helps in straight runs. I don't know why but I'm sure some of the racers will explain. Keeping it simple, the front sway bar inhibits weight transfer back to the point of traction. More lift in front means more weight on the rear tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Keeping it simple, the front sway bar inhibits weight transfer back to the point of traction. More lift in front means more weight on the rear tires. Ahhh makes sense. So we need some SGT quick discos designed. Shouldn't be too hard. Jeepers do it all the time. Heck, I may have a set laying in the barn somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT2666 Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Whats bothering me is that some manufacturers are able to do both. They are making cars that storm the quarter with incredible times are world class handlers and with less horsepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMGT Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I've put the 11psi Whipple on my car and it makes great power but even with 285's on the back traction in the first two gears is a bit sketchy. I read about cars like the new Nissan GTR that is doing 11.7 quarters right out of the box and is a fierce handler as well and I wonder what it takes to get that done. I don't see any inherent benefit to having full independent suspension for getting out of the hole. So what does it take? Can we have a car that gets out of the hole hard without sacrificing handling? It seems there must be tradeoffs or the manufacturers would have given us the right geometry from the get go. Just interested in what you guys think. The GTR is a screaming fast car but you also have to consider that is has AWD which makes a big difference in hooking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamRide Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Keeping it simple, the front sway bar inhibits weight transfer back to the point of traction. More lift in front means more weight on the rear tires. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 I read about cars like the new Nissan GTR that is doing 11.7 quarters right out of the box She's a monster. Couldn't find the weight though... VR-series twin-turbocharged 3.8-liter V6. • 480 hp @ 6,800 rpm. 430 lb-ft torque @ 3,200–5,200 rpm. • Dual overhead camshafts with variable intake-valve timing. • Cast aluminum cylinder block with high-endurance/low-friction plasma-sprayed bores. • IHI twin turbochargers, one per cylinder bank. • Pressurized lubrication system with thermostatically controlled cooling. http://www.gtrnissan.com/specs.en.us.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Bought a used 1978 280z when I was 20, put headers on her with some deep dish American Racing wheels. What a car! I will always hold those kicka$$ Nissan days close to my heart. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT2666 Posted November 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 Bought a used 1978 280z when I was 20, put headers on her with some deep dish American Racing wheels. What a car! I will always hold those kicka$$ Nissan days close to my heart. :D My 350z roadster turned into a SGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie428 Posted November 2, 2007 Report Share Posted November 2, 2007 My 350z roadster turned into a SGT Hey Waldo I pushing 468 rwh and ran the 1/4 in 11.43 at 123.80 mph with pax 11.5psi, uca, lca, alum d/s, alcohol injection, phb and 410s, drove it to the track est. 80 miles and back 80 miles! What more could you want!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Hey Waldo I pushing 468 rwh and ran the 1/4 in 11.43 at 123.80 mph with pax 11.5psi, uca, lca, alum d/s, alcohol injection, phb and 410s, drove it to the track est. 80 miles and back 80 miles! What more could you want!! DANG look at that back tire wrinkle. That's it. I'm going driving right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clark17357 Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 with pax 11.5psi, uca, lca, alum d/s, alcohol injection, phb What does uca, lca, alum d/s and phb mean? I understand the rest. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT2666 Posted November 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Hey Waldo I pushing 468 rwh and ran the 1/4 in 11.43 at 123.80 mph with pax 11.5psi, uca, lca, alum d/s, alcohol injection, phb and 410s, drove it to the track est. 80 miles and back 80 miles! What more could you want!! Thats rockin fast....cheeers !!! What does uca, lca, alum d/s and phb mean? I understand the rest. Jim upper control arm, lower control arm, alum drive shaft and pan hard bar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clark17357 Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Thats rockin fast....cheeers !!! upper control arm, lower control arm, alum drive shaft and pan hard bar... Thanks. Are you okay with sharing the brands of each component you used? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerS Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Jim, There are many different brands out there as I'm sure you are aware. The key I believe is adjustability. The adjustable bars give you the opportunity to "dial in" a cars reaction or "tune" the rear suspension charistics specific to your needs. Some are and other's are not. Here are a couple of sites to give you an idea http://www.bmrfabrication.com/2005MustangSUSPENSION.htm http://powerhouse411.com/catalog/index.php...dex&cPath=1_3_6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT2666 Posted November 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Things like pan hard bars and watts links are all about handling not straight line right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerS Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 The panhard bar for both, it helps keep the rear axle centered. Watts link yes. More for road race, autocross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 I am not a drag racer by any stretch of the imagination but here are thing s I did and why. I replaced the upper and lower control arms with a Granatelli Street set up. I did the lowers because of my supercharged horsepower increase. When I was reading about the GT500 in forums one of the biggest complaints was wheel hop. I read one racer on here complaining about wheel hop on a stock Shelby GT. It seemed that the weak link was the lower control arms which were reported to be bend under hard acceleration and then spring back straight, wheel hop. I did the upper simply because I ws doing all of the other work and most of the suspension manufacturers seemed to agree the stock pinion angle just wasn't right. Now for street driving, autocross and open track I installed the Fays2 Watts Link. First with the lower ride height of our cars the axle is off set to one side. With 10.5" wheels it was evident with the naked eye. I was going to simply use an adjustable pan hard bar. I had heard about watts links but the only ones I found at first were very exspensive $1300+. Then I found a GT500 with some very iformative post about the Fays2 watts link and half the cost, $615 I think. I am sure the watts link is for cornering and not a straight line. I believe it made a big difference on my car and it works. It especially makes a difference on uneven roads. Others may tell you the Fays2 is the best design because it attaches the center point to the frame and the control arms to the axle as opposed to attaching the centerpoint on the differential and the control arms to the frame like the Saleen. I have been told by racers that is technically correct but the difference is minimal at the extreme edges of the travel and the cost savings is worth the slight travel loss. Plus to me, and an uneducated opinion, it just doesn't seem right to attach a suspension piece to the differential cover. That is a force that the cover or atleast the housing isn't engineered for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 The panhard bar for both, it helps keep the rear axle centered. Watts link yes. More for road race, autocross. They also control axle warp which is no bueno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT2666 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I am not a drag racer by any stretch of the imagination but here are thing s I did and why. I replaced the upper and lower control arms with a Granatelli Street set up. I did the lowers because of my supercharged horsepower increase. When I was reading about the GT500 in forums one of the biggest complaints was wheel hop. I read one racer on here complaining about wheel hop on a stock Shelby GT. It seemed that the weak link was the lower control arms which were reported to be bend under hard acceleration and then spring back straight, wheel hop. I did the upper simply because I ws doing all of the other work and most of the suspension manufacturers seemed to agree the stock pinion angle just wasn't right. Now for street driving, autocross and open track I installed the Fays2 Watts Link. First with the lower ride height of our cars the axle is off set to one side. With 10.5" wheels it was evident with the naked eye. I was going to simply use an adjustable pan hard bar. I had heard about watts links but the only ones I found at first were very exspensive $1300+. Then I found a GT500 with some very iformative post about the Fays2 watts link and half the cost, $615 I think. I am sure the watts link is for cornering and not a straight line. I believe it made a big difference on my car and it works. It especially makes a difference on uneven roads. Others may tell you the Fays2 is the best design because it attaches the center point to the frame and the control arms to the axle as opposed to attaching the centerpoint on the differential and the control arms to the frame like the Saleen. I have been told by racers that is technically correct but the difference is minimal at the extreme edges of the travel and the cost savings is worth the slight travel loss. Plus to me, and an uneducated opinion, it just doesn't seem right to attach a suspension piece to the differential cover. That is a force that the cover or atleast the housing isn't engineered for. Good info thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyPilot Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I forgot to add the watts link adds a bit of weight. I don't know how much. I think the weight penalty is overcomed by handling in corners but would not be appreciated on 1/4 mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srf73 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 The Watts link is on my short list for next year. For now I settled for an adjustable panhard rod to center the rear axle. Also added tubular LCA and adjustable UCA. All with polyurethane bushings. All from Steeda. I can definitely say there is more NVH in the car now. Probably mostly from the UCA transmitting diff noise right into the cabin under the rear seat. Virtually any road imperfection is sharper now, botts dots, even painted crosswalk lines, and particularly tar strips. It just feels more "raw", more unrefined, more like a race car :D I'm fine with it, this is my toy, and not a daily driver and may see some track days, but IMHO if you have a daily driver, I'd probably advise *not* going down this road unless you like more noise. Or want to annoy the cr*p out of your Mother-in-Law in the back seat!!!!! Todd csm1638 (only about 1000 more posts to catch up to the leaders!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerS Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'm fine with it, this is my toy, and not a daily driver and may see some track days, but IMHO if you have a daily driver, I'd probably advise *not* going down this road unless you like more noise. Or want to annoy the cr*p out of your Mother-in-Law in the back seat!!!!! Todd csm1638 (only about 1000 more posts to catch up to the leaders!) I better hurry up and get mine installed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankieboo69 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I better hurry up and get mine installed! i agree anything to keep the back seat empty !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.