GT 500 2008 Production Numbers

[Michael Morris]

dont forget that Ford charged us all 1500 dollars for advertising material. not much money, but we were only going to get one car. that wasnt included in the cost or MSRP.

but shelby the poster said that 100 was NOT enough per car. pretty sure that i read that right, but i will go back and look.

michael morris

[jimbobbeg]

ShelbyDude thanks,

I HAVE GIVEN UP trying to get that info out to the VERY uninformed.

Now if only I could find some of these MSRP GT500's, with all the inside info we have. :blink:

 

Well said, thanks again

randy

 

 

Just out of curiosity, how long have you guys been in the car business?

[jimbobbeg]

 

WOW! At a $100 over invoice we only need to sell 6,000 new cars per month just to break even! LOL

 

If it wasn't for used car sales, service and parts, new car dealerships would not even exist! Because there is NO MONEY to be made in new car sales! Any money made comes from service and parts and body shop if they have one.

 

I would personally take a nice used car lot over a new car franchise any day!

 

 

$100 over invoice? That's not my number. This past week I offered a local dealer $800 more for a car than I could buy it for out of town just to keep the business local.

 

To quote a posting by a dealer, "I will sell anyone any F-Series IN STOCK for $500 Below Invoice, PLUS....YOU keep any rebates and/or special financing rates!"

 

Listen, I'm not going continue this debate. You can continue to pull numbers out of context all you want. I know people that own new car stores and NONE of them are impoverished.

[ShelbyDude]

$100 over invoice? That's not my number. This past week I offered a local dealer $800 more for a car than I could buy it for out of town just to keep the business local.

 

To quote a posting by a dealer, "I will sell anyone any F-Series IN STOCK for $500 Below Invoice, PLUS....YOU keep any rebates and/or special financing rates!"

 

Listen, I'm not going continue this debate. You can continue to pull numbers out of context all you want. I know people that own new car stores and NONE of them are impoverished.

 

 

 

Adding in 3% holdback along with factory incentives and assistance plus anything made in F&I makes a "$100 over invoice" deal look pretty good.

 

That wasn't you? I'm sorry. I must of got this confused with someone that posted that.

 

Yes, I did post that I will sell anyone any F-Series in stock for $500 below invoice. During the month of July merely for the purpose of meeting our quota on F-Series sales for July just to be able to get into the lottery to win a GT500KR from Ford.

 

This is one of those incentives Ford is offering to dealers to sell a lot of F-Series.

 

If we win one of the 50 KR's being given away we would make a very large profit on that one car alone.

 

If we don't win I risk selling a lot of F-Series at no profit. It is a gamble being taken to win the GT500KR.

 

Trust me, there sure as heck ain't no money being made off selling those trucks for that! That is an average of about $400 below what X-Plan would be and without any commission paid back to the dealer by Ford for selling them like that.

 

And for the record, I know of many new car dealerships that are now closed and out of business! Over a 1,000 Ford dealers alone within the past year. Many that have been in business for over 50 years! Now gone because they couldn't survive any longer.

 

Plus many other GM and Chrysler dealers as well.

[jimbobbeg]

Adding in 3% holdback along with factory incentives and assistance plus anything made in F&I makes a "$100 over invoice" deal look pretty good.

 

That wasn't you? I'm sorry. I must of got this confused with someone that posted that.

 

 

 

The reason that it's in quotes is because someone said it. That someone is you. If you read what I said, you will see that I do not believe that $100 is a fair profit.

 

How long have you been in the car business ShelbyDude?

[ShelbyDude]

The reason that it's in quotes is because someone said it. That someone is you. If you read what I said, you will see that I do not believe that $100 is a fair profit.

 

How long have you been in the car business ShelbyDude?

 

 

 

No, that wasn't what I said.

 

Here is what I said:

 

"Only in the car business where you pay $25K - $50K for a product and think the dealer should be happy to make a $100 profit! You pay the State more in sales tax than you do the dealer in gross profit!!! Now what is wrong with that picture?"

 

Then your response was:

 

"Who thinks that $100 is a fair profit on a car? I sure don't! I'd bet that the average dealer profit per vehicle is a lot higher than $100. Some people pay more, some less. Adding in 3% holdback along with factory incentives and assistance plus anything made in F&I makes a "$100 over invoice" deal look pretty good."

 

 

You said you didn't think a $100 profit was a fair deal, but then implied a $100 over invoice with 3% holdback along with factory incentives and assistance plus anything made in F&I would look like a pretty good deal.

 

That is incorrect because the holdback is eaten up in floorplan expense along with other fixed expenses which never is enough to cover those expenses, and there are no factory incentives other than what Ford gives to the customers, and anything made in F&I is made to pay the F&I department which is a seperate department that has to earn income to cover its own department. Just like service and parts have to earn income to pay for their own departments.

 

Each department is seperate. They may all be under one roof but they are seperate business operations from one another. No different than going to the mall. Lots of stores under one roof, but all seperate businesses from ome another. Just because each business may be owned by one owner does not mean you can combine each business to support each other. They each have to support themselves as individual business operations.

 

This is one reason I always get a kick out the buyer that says....how much can I buy that for if I pay cash??? As if paying cash should allow for a better discount. In the car business cash is less profit to the dealer because F&I loses any potential profit to be made in their department and basically ends up processing all the paper work for nothing.

 

I have been in the car business now for 5 years this July. In my past life I have owned my own business for 10 years and had 5 locations and before that managed businesses for an absentee owner for over 10 years, which was completely unrelated to the car business.

[HARLEY6LF250SDU]

Just out of curiosity, how long have you guys been in the car business?

 

First I'm not a "Saleman" I run the Fleet/Comm Truck Dept. and ONLY answer to the Owner.

I been "in the business" of selling FORD Trucks for about 8 years. But I have been buying restoring Mustangs since 1977. Owned 83 so far, including a 65 GT350 & a 68 KR500

 

First Car: 1967 Mustang coupe 289 4V with Cragars, 50's out back, Highland Green, Dlx Int Pkg (in High School 1976)

(not in time order)

(2) 1964 1/2 Must Conv's 170 1V & 260 2V

1965 Shelby Gt350 Blue, 39K orig miles, bought wrecked Fixed & Sold for $28K in 1983

(21) 1965 Mustang Coupes ................ bought.... restored/fixed up, Sold

(2) 1966 Mustang Coupes 289 2V & 289 4V

(14) 1967 Mustang Coupes...... bought... restored/fixed up, Sold

(2) 1967 Must F/B's 289 2V & 390 4V

1968 Shelby GT500KR Coupe Red 14K orig miles, bought wrecked Fixed & Sold for $32K in 1986

(22)) 1968 Mustang Coupe's ....... bought... restored/fixed up, Sold

(3) 1968 Mustang Conv's 2-302 4V & 1-302 2V

(7) 1968 Mustang F/B's ................. bought... restored/fixed up, Sold

(2) 1969 Mach I's 351 4V & 428 SCJ

1969 Mustang Coupe 302 2V

1969 Mustang Conv 351 4V

(2) 1970 Mustang Coupe's 302 2V 351 2V

1971 BOSS 351 Silver

1974 Ranchero w/460cid 4V

1974 Bronco 302 2V 4" lift

1979 F250 Custom Highboy w/12" lift & 44" Mudders

1980 Bronco 302

1986 Mustang GT

1990 Bronco 351 XLT

1992 Bronco 302 XLT w/4:11's ....bad combo

1993 Bronco 351 EB

1995 Bronco 351 EB

1996 F150 excab EB

1st 1997 F150 XLT excab in Montana (june 96..?.. new body style) w/4.6L yuk

1997 F150 XLT excab w/5.4L much better

.........2000 379 Peterbuilt.......

2003 F250 Diesel XLT Crewcab (early-early 6.0L No Problems)

2004 F250 Harley Crewcab Blk/DSG

2005 F350 Harley True Blue, Wed Blue flames

2006 F350 Harley Tor Red, Blk flames

2006 F250 Harley Black, Wed Blue Flames

 

1972 Harley 125 Enduro Yellow

1985 Harley Sportster

1995 Harley Road King

2007 Harley Dyna Wide Glide

---------------------------------------------

Ford Certification

Com. Account Manager BPN Master Requirements ..ACQUIRED

Commercial F&I Mgr BPN Master Requirements ..ACQUIRED

Com. Account Manager BPN Certified Requirements ..ACQUIRED

Com. Truck Sales Consultant Master Cert. - Level 3 ..ACQUIRED

Com. Truck Sales Consultant Base Cert. - Level 2.. ACQUIRED

Sales Consultant Base Certified - Level 2 ..ACQUIRED

Ford Truck Sales Consultant Product Requirements ..ACQUIRED

Ford Sales Consultant Product Requirements ..ACQUIRED

 

randy

[Michael Morris]

i have been selling cars since i was 14. my dad owned the store so during the summers i sold cars. i sold car ever summer until i got out of college. then i went fulltime. so i have been in the car buisness for 22 years. this does not include going to the dealership every Saturday and hanging out.

like Randy i dont just sell anymore. about 5 years ago i was promoted to used car manager, but i have alot of repeat and referral so i still sell everyday, but i dont depend just my sales for income anymore. about a year ago me and my bro in law were blessed with the chance to buy some of the store. so now im a small part owner.

heres my list Randy

300/500 member

300/500 legend leader ( got this real cheese ring that ONLY a car guy would wear) top 2% sales in region

Master Ceritfied in Sales

Master Ceritifed in Used Car Management

Master Ceritified in Customer Relations ( this makes me the guy you complain to)

Now with that said Ford has just changed all the testing and everything that i have doesnt mean anything anymore and since i dont sale for a living im not going to retest i dont think.

Michael Morris

[jimbobbeg]

No, that wasn't what I said.

 

Here is what I said:

 

"Only in the car business where you pay $25K - $50K for a product and think the dealer should be happy to make a $100 profit! You pay the State more in sales tax than you do the dealer in gross profit!!! Now what is wrong with that picture?"

 

Then your response was:

 

"Who thinks that $100 is a fair profit on a car? I sure don't! I'd bet that the average dealer profit per vehicle is a lot higher than $100. Some people pay more, some less. Adding in 3% holdback along with factory incentives and assistance plus anything made in F&I makes a "$100 over invoice" deal look pretty good."

You said you didn't think a $100 profit was a fair deal, but then implied a $100 over invoice with 3% holdback along with factory incentives and assistance plus anything made in F&I would look like a pretty good deal.

 

That is incorrect because the holdback is eaten up in floorplan expense along with other fixed expenses which never is enough to cover those expenses, and there are no factory incentives other than what Ford gives to the customers, and anything made in F&I is made to pay the F&I department which is a seperate department that has to earn income to cover its own department. Just like service and parts have to earn income to pay for their own departments.

 

Each department is seperate. They may all be under one roof but they are seperate business operations from one another. No different than going to the mall. Lots of stores under one roof, but all seperate businesses from ome another. Just because each business may be owned by one owner does not mean you can combine each business to support each other. They each have to support themselves as individual business operations.

 

This is one reason I always get a kick out the buyer that says....how much can I buy that for if I pay cash??? As if paying cash should allow for a better discount. In the car business cash is less profit to the dealer because F&I loses any potential profit to be made in their department and basically ends up processing all the paper work for nothing.

 

I have been in the car business now for 5 years this July. In my past life I have owned my own business for 10 years and had 5 locations and before that managed businesses for an absentee owner for over 10 years, which was completely unrelated to the car business.

 

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear in making my point. Nowhere have I said that a $100 profit on a new car was fair to a dealer. Only in the case of factory to dealer incentives would $100 over or less be an acceptable amount of profit, in my opinion. I was trying to point out that there are other sources of profit in a new car transaction besides the difference between "invoice price" and selling price.

 

Generally, the sales department is subdivided into new and used with any F&I profit counted as sales profit, "front and back end" as you say. Hold back is usually a credit to the parts statement. It's a way of diverting profit away from the sales department so no commission is paid on it.

 

Once again, this whole "conversation" began with my observation that ADMs are dropping. I still believe that. I realize that the car business is difficult and isn't getting any easier. I also know that the majority of comsumers really don't understand the ins and outs of what goes on. I appreciaite the info the dealers of this forum provide to everyone.

 

 

First I'm not a "Saleman" I run the Fleet/Comm Truck Dept. and ONLY answer to the Owner.

I been "in the business" of selling FORD Trucks for about 8 years.

 

 

I never said you were a salesman. I read your signature so I knew you were a fleet manager. I was just wondering how long you have been at it. Nothiing more.

[DeLa1Rob]

 

For example, did you know that every time you go to Ford.com and submit for a price quote on a vehicle that the dealer that inquiry is sent to is charged $15 from Ford?

You dealers are really getting raped by Ford on web referrals. That service shouldn't cost you more than a flat $15 per month

[RogerS]

Back to your observation.

 

ADM's while not publicly advertised are dropping. Dosen't matter what the Adjusted Market Value supplimental sticker says.

 

I am actively looking at GT500 now and am serious about buying now also.

 

Some dealers are holding the hard line. Other's are more than willing to talk. Used, depending on market, are not bringing the $$'s and seem to be suffering the most. Certian colors are not moving also. Maybe not true on the color but it sure seems like it.

 

Quote: "I have a local customer that may want the car. If he does not take it, and I will know by Friday you can have it for $xx,xxx. I am sick of looking at it". That from the GM.

 

What I can tell you is that it is above sticker by not the $15,000 over he was looking for. I will be calling him Friday.

[oilman]

Back to your observation.

 

ADM's while not publicly advertised are dropping. Dosen't matter what the Adjusted Market Value supplimental sticker says.

 

I am actively looking at GT500 now and am serious about buying now also.

 

Some dealers are holding the hard line. Other's are more than willing to talk. Used, depending on market, are not bringing the $$'s and seem to be suffering the most. Certian colors are not moving also. Maybe not true on the color but it sure seems like it.

 

Quote: "I have a local customer that may want the car. If he does not take it, and I will know by Friday you can have it for $xx,xxx. I am sick of looking at it". That from the GM.

 

What I can tell you is that it is above sticker by not the $15,000 over he was looking for. I will be calling him Friday.

 

The days of 10-15-20K over appear to be gone for now, and deals are surfacing. I jumped in last week @ 6K over, could probably done even better if I waited longer, but wanted red/white and that color seems to be disappearing. Like Michael M said" pay a price you are comfortable with", and I'm satisfied at this figure.

[ShelbyDude]

You dealers are really getting raped by Ford on web referrals. That service shouldn't cost you more than a flat $15 per month

 

 

 

I would be happy with a flat $900 month. Some regions are paying that as a flat rate while other regions are paying the $15 per lead rate.

 

This is a HUGH money maker for Ford! They get hundreds of thousands of leads coming through across the country. Multiply that by $15 a pop!

[ShelbyDude]

The days of 10-15-20K over appear to be gone for now, and deals are surfacing. I jumped in last week @ 6K over, could probably done even better if I waited longer, but wanted red/white and that color seems to be disappearing. Like Michael M said" pay a price you are comfortable with", and I'm satisfied at this figure.

 

 

 

Actually the Red with white stripes and the white with blue stripes are the two most popular colors made and there are more of those two colors remaining than any other colors.

 

There is still 145 Red Coupes with white stripes out there which is 19% of all the 2007 coupe models left.

 

There is a total of 763 coupes left.

 

Here is the breakdown in number of colors left.

 

White Coupes = 264 (56 are with the red stripe package)

 

Red Coupes = 185 (145 Red w/white stripes)

 

Black Coupes = 160 (51 are with the red stripe package)

 

Vista Blue Coupes = 83

 

Tungsten Coupes = 29

 

Alloy Coupes = 23

 

Grabber Orange Coupes = 19

[oilman]

Actually the Red with white stripes and the white with blue stripes are the two most popular colors made and there are more of those two colors remaining than any other colors.

 

There is still 145 Red Coupes with white stripes out there which is 19% of all the 2007 coupe models left.

 

There is a total of 763 coupes left.

 

Here is the breakdown in number of colors left.

 

White Coupes = 264 (56 are with the red stripe package)

 

Red Coupes = 185 (145 Red w/white stripes)

 

Black Coupes = 160 (51 are with the red stripe package)

 

Vista Blue Coupes = 83

 

Tungsten Coupes = 29

 

Alloy Coupes = 23

 

Grabber Orange Coupes = 19

 

Oh well - maybe I should have waited little longer, but then I would have missed any drive time left this summer. I'm staisfied with my deal.

[Michael Morris]

Oh well - maybe I should have waited little longer, but then I would have missed any drive time left this summer. I'm staisfied with my deal.

 

"im satisfied with my deal" thats all that really matters. how about some pics of your car?

michael morris

[DubbsFaris]

Wow- You guys got kinda personal on this thread...

 

Im new and catching up on the forum, but here is a good update to support harley and micheal morris-

 

I found 2 '07 gt500 coupes in San Antonio, both were hardlining at 15k ADM.

 

I went to another dealer that is big- Red McCombs owns it-(owned the Spurs and Vikings at one time)

They had an allocation for an '08 that I jumped on for 10k ADM, b/c it will be my dream car-

ebony w/ red stripe package, and all options on a convertible.

 

So in my hunting around Texas, I haven't seen much of a drop in ADMs.

 

But I'll let you in on a little secret... I dont really care what it costs, as long as I can afford it. My dealer can laugh all the way to the bank....but I will have the top down smiling from ear to ear for the rest of my days.

 

Don't over analyze the ADM. Remember one important thing....

Yes, with the ADM you could buy 2 convertible GTs for the price I will pay for my GT500, BUT, 5 years from now those 2 GTs will be worth 15k together, and my one GT500 will still be worth 40k at worst case.

 

So you really have to see the big picture for devalution and possible investment potential to really break down this ADM. Sure, the dealer makes an extra 10k. What stops you from taking your brand new shelby, loading on a container, and selling in Australia for a nice guaranteed 70k profit after shipping costs.

 

Think about that. You should feel glad that Ford and Shelby do not allow dealers to do that very thing, or none of us might have these dream machines.

[HARLEY6LF250SDU]

MY LASTEST UPDATE here in Denver.

ALL 2007 Shelby's SOLD (21....total) 5 were my cars, rest I bought from other dealers.

My 1st 2008 Shelby GT500 has come and gone. ($10K over)

(3) 2008 Shelby SGT's SOLD........ 1-coupe, 2-conv. (at SAI. Shelby)

 

I have 1 more 08 GT500 available in Dec order bank

and 2 08 SGT's being built. available at this time

 

thanks randy

[DeLa1Rob]

Yes, with the ADM you could buy 2 convertible GTs for the price I will pay for my GT500, BUT, 5 years from now those 2 GTs will be worth 15k together, and my one GT500 will still be worth 40k at worst case.

Good Luck with that!

 

robin

[DubbsFaris]

Hmm, I guess I should have mentioned that it won't be driven after a proper break in hardly at all. Keeping the miles down will keep the value where it should be. My wife has instructions to hide the keys if I put more than 1000 miles in a year on it.

 

I admit, that will be tough...but its a burden I will be happy to bear.

 

So, no cross country meet-n-greets just yet. (although I could be talked into a nice rockies drive next summer!) heheheh

 

(I'll just flatbed it up to the Texas border, so I can keep those 1000 miles off of it, and my but outta jail since there a stretch on I-10 in west Texas I could test out that top speed regulator mod chip.)

 

Actually, trailer it behind a RV bus is what I was thinkin. :D

 

See Robin, I have myself fooled completely!

 

Don't try to shoot holes in my dreamworld plan!