MSRP out the window

CrimeScene · April 8, 2006

I want to start off first with in this posting I mean no offence nor am trying to flame any one.

I am a little disappointed with the way the Ford has let there dealers jack up the price of the new G.T. 500's up to and over $40,000 above MSPR.

It always see to me when reading or watching interviews with Mr.Shelby he has always givin the impression of being for the adv joe,not the ultra rich or sliver spoon fed,when he first started the Cobra's they were priced for anyone,now it seems greed had taking over,why elese would he let this kinda of pricing go on?

I understand he is not in charge of Ford but he has to have sway over the,I mean they come to him not the other way around,he had a big name now and that in any corporate world holds power.

I a losing any type of respect I hold for him,and I know this is no big deal to him,I mean who am I ? I don't hold any power or respect in the auto world,I am not any any board of trustees,I am just the adv joe wodering why Mr.Shelby has not even publicly tryed to stick up for us and saying something, anything about Ford dealers keeping the GT 500 out of our hands and keeping it for the well off or rich buyers.

I am not alone gunnman on this,alot of people on Ford/Mustang forums feel about the same on this outrage the dealers/Ford are doing,I would never expect Ford to say anything but Mr.Shelby has always toted the idea of being for the hard working man who is not rich and no silver spoon in ther mouth.

He saids somthing what would Ford do? Fire him? Heck he could go to any car company ask for any amount and get it for using his name.,he has a rep now he is standing on his own without the big 3,he is almost as big if not bigger then them,if not in name only.

I don't know who reads theses at his him company or even if this will ever get to be passed on to him but I would like to think maybe you would pass this on to him pls.

Tom

amyb · April 10, 2006

I want to start off first with in this posting I mean no offence nor am trying to flame any one.

I am a little disappointed with the way the Ford has let there dealers jack up the price of the new G.T. 500's up to and over $40,000 above MSPR.

It always see to me when reading or watching interviews with Mr.Shelby he has always givin the impression of being for the adv joe,not the ultra rich or sliver spoon fed,when he first started the Cobra's they were priced for anyone,now it seems greed had taking over,why elese would he let this kinda of pricing go on?

I understand he is not in charge of Ford but he has to have sway over the,I mean they come to him not the other way around,he had a big name now and that in any corporate world holds power.

I a losing any type of respect I hold for him,and I know this is no big deal to him,I mean who am I ? I don't hold any power or respect in the auto world,I am not any any board of trustees,I am just the adv joe wodering why Mr.Shelby has not even publicly tryed to stick up for us and saying something, anything about Ford dealers keeping the GT 500 out of our hands and keeping it for the well off or rich buyers.

I am not alone gunnman on this,alot of people on Ford/Mustang forums feel about the same on this outrage the dealers/Ford are doing,I would never expect Ford to say anything but Mr.Shelby has always toted the idea of being for the hard working man who is not rich and no silver spoon in ther mouth.

He saids somthing what would Ford do? Fire him? Heck he could go to any car company ask for any amount and get it for using his name.,he has a rep now he is standing on his own without the big 3,he is almost as big if not bigger then them,if not in name only.

I don't know who reads theses at his him company or even if this will ever get to be passed on to him but I would like to think maybe you would pass this on to him pls.

Tom

Tom, I am sorry, but Mr. Shelby can not dictate pricing, in fact even ford can not dictate pricing. This is solely in the hands of the dealers. They make the price. We have talked to Ford about this, but there is nothing we can do. The dealers see an opportunity and they are seizing it

Amy

CrimeScene · April 10, 2006

B)-->

QUOTE(Amy B @ Apr 9 2006, 05:33 PM) 115[/snapback]

Tom, I am sorry, but Mr. Shelby can not dictate pricing, in fact even ford can not dictate pricing. This is solely in the hands of the dealers. They make the price. We have talked to Ford about this, but there is nothing we can do. The dealers see an opportunity and they are seizing it

Amy

Well thank you for the reply,I did not expect to get one,just the fact you have talked to Ford about it restores some of my respect.

I would like to see what the dealers would say if Mr.Shelby publicly spoke out against what they are pulling,just a lession in how far they have come on the lines of greed I guess.

Just based on what they are pulling now I have decided to cancel my 06 mustang I ordered and am now going with buying a 68 GT 500, I am finalizing the deal in a few days.

Againe thank you for your reply.

Tom (CrimeScene)

wellingf · April 12, 2006

Tom,

I appreciate seeing your honesty. I am also dissapointed with the whole process of how these cars are being distributed. My personal story follows, I contacted a friend of mine who is a sales manager at a local ford dealership and spoke to him about the possibility of getting a GT500. He informed me that his dealership had no list however the two owners of the dealership were going to be taking the first two vehicles to arrive and they did not anticipate receiving more than two. I visited three other dealers near my location. At one dealership I was informed that they would be charging $20,000 over MSRP as that seemed to be the going rate on EBAY. At another dealership I was told they would have none available for sale to the public. At a third dealership the sales representative I spoke to informed me that there was no list and they would have none available. I have found a fifth local dealership who has their two GT500's currently listed on EBAY. It seems that for me, the only way to get one of these cars is going to be to go through EBAY and pay whatever the market dictates, which I am not sure I am willing to do merely based on the principle of the matter.

It seems that more and more we read or hear about the trouble that the American auto makers face. While I understand that Ford does not control their dealer network, this experience only furthers my understanding of why people may not be interested in buying a Ford vehicle. I'm 29 years old and have bought 5 brand new cars in the last 8 years. In my lifetime I will probably buy another 20-25 cars. I cannot see myself buying another Ford vehicle from any of the dealerships near me based on how they have chosen to horde the GT500's for their ownership, or sell them to the highest bidder on EBAY. There is such a thing as a market demand premium and I can understand that ($3,000-$5,000 over MSRP). There is also such a thing as gouging ($20,000 over MSRP). I am not crying because I cannot get a GT500, I am fortunate enough to be able to purchase "the right to order one" on EBAY for the prevailing rate, however the principle of the matter is that the Ford dealer network in my area did not choose to have a first come first serve process for selling the GT500, they have seemingly chosen to horde the vehicles for themselves, or sell them to the highest bidder. I for one remember when somone acts in an unethical manner and will not forget it. If other potential Ford customers share my mentality, then the darkest days for Ford my yet lie ahead as their former loyal customers remember and choose another manufacturer the next time they buy a new car.

No reply to this posting is necessary, I just felt the need to share my story. I respect and understand that Shelby does not condone or control the actions of the Ford dealer network and I do not blame Shelby. Hopefully Shelby does understand that in the mind of some potential customers the Shelby name may also be associated with the ill will being felt towards Ford right now. All I can ask is that in the future Shelby should remember the process by which the GT500 has been distributed and sold; and that Shelby potentially look into other options that enable Shelby to have more control of the distribution of future vehicles.

Warmest regards,

Greg

KBCobra · April 13, 2006

Tom,

I appreciate seeing your honesty. I am also dissapointed with the whole process of how these cars are being distributed. My personal story follows, I contacted a friend of mine who is a sales manager at a local ford dealership and spoke to him about the possibility of getting a GT500. He informed me that his dealership had no list however the two owners of the dealership were going to be taking the first two vehicles to arrive and they did not anticipate receiving more than two. I visited three other dealers near my location. At one dealership I was informed that they would be charging $20,000 over MSRP as that seemed to be the going rate on EBAY. At another dealership I was told they would have none available for sale to the public. At a third dealership the sales representative I spoke to informed me that there was no list and they would have none available. I have found a fifth local dealership who has their two GT500's currently listed on EBAY. It seems that for me, the only way to get one of these cars is going to be to go through EBAY and pay whatever the market dictates, which I am not sure I am willing to do merely based on the principle of the matter.

It seems that more and more we read or hear about the trouble that the American auto makers face. While I understand that Ford does not control their dealer network, this experience only furthers my understanding of why people may not be interested in buying a Ford vehicle. I'm 29 years old and have bought 5 brand new cars in the last 8 years. In my lifetime I will probably buy another 20-25 cars. I cannot see myself buying another Ford vehicle from any of the dealerships near me based on how they have chosen to horde the GT500's for their ownership, or sell them to the highest bidder on EBAY. There is such a thing as a market demand premium and I can understand that ($3,000-$5,000 over MSRP). There is also such a thing as gouging ($20,000 over MSRP). I am not crying because I cannot get a GT500, I am fortunate enough to be able to purchase "the right to order one" on EBAY for the prevailing rate, however the principle of the matter is that the Ford dealer network in my area did not choose to have a first come first serve process for selling the GT500, they have seemingly chosen to horde the vehicles for themselves, or sell them to the highest bidder. I for one remember when somone acts in an unethical manner and will not forget it. If other potential Ford customers share my mentality, then the darkest days for Ford my yet lie ahead as their former loyal customers remember and choose another manufacturer the next time they buy a new car.

No reply to this posting is necessary, I just felt the need to share my story. I respect and understand that Shelby does not condone or control the actions of the Ford dealer network and I do not blame Shelby. Hopefully Shelby does understand that in the mind of some potential customers the Shelby name may also be associated with the ill will being felt towards Ford right now. All I can ask is that in the future Shelby should remember the process by which the GT500 has been distributed and sold; and that Shelby potentially look into other options that enable Shelby to have more control of the distribution of future vehicles.

Warmest regards,

Greg

Greg,

I predict that after a few months, the price will fall to MSRP and within a year less than MSRP. This was the same way with the lame T-Bird and others. It always happens this way, even on the Ford GT which should theoretically been somewhat price inelastic due to its initial high price and well heeled client base. We all know where that project ended up.

Regards,

C0braFan · April 16, 2006

I agree with all of your sentiments. I pre-ordered a GT500 back in March, 2005, so I've been waiting a lot longer than most. But now I may not even be able to afford it when the car arrives--or rather, when the final price is determined by the dealer. I've been working really hard to establish relationships with sales managers...stopping in every few months, calling, I've even written letters of gratitude, thanking them for their friendliness and help. All of this could mean nothing in the end.

I've determined that I can only afford $50k. If MSRP is $40k like everyone suspects, then the most I can go is $10k over. This might be a reasonable fee for the dealer for an unusual customer such as myself, but then, car dealers don't care much for customer relationships, only the bottom line. So I fully expect that I'll have to turn down the car after waiting--what will be 15 months by the time it's in production.

So, I'm already looking at other options... The 2007 GT/CS looks like a nice car. I could enjoy that with some performance modifications for $20k less than the going rate of the 2007 GT500. There's the rumor of a 2007 Boss Mustang featuring the 5.4-liter GT500 engine, but without the supercharger. That would be another really fun car to own.

So, while I agree that this price gouging is disgusting, it's unavoidable--unless maybe you know the owner or manager of a dealership. Supply & demand. Demand is stratospheric...so the cost goes up. This isn't a conspiracy, and nothing Mr. Shelby says or does will make any difference. I imagine there are Ferrari forums with the same sorts of posts about the Enzo. I imagine Ferrari fans griping and complaining about the 399 Enzo's built (and spoken for immediately).

Perhaps what Tom is wanting is an official list of customers at Ford who have ordered the car, and delivery going straight to the customer...but unfortunately, Ford doesn't sell directly to retail, only to dealerships. I went through a couple weeks of slight depression a while back, but I'm over it...there are some great cars coming out this year. And like MustangOne over at TheMustangNews.com is always saying....you can buy a GT and build it up faster than a GT500 for a lot less money.

T.C.Watkins · April 16, 2006

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Amy B @ Apr 9 2006, 05:33 PM) 115[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>

Tom, I am sorry, but Mr. Shelby can not dictate pricing, in fact even ford can not dictate pricing. This is solely in the hands of the dealers. They make the price. We have talked to Ford about this, but there is nothing we can do. The dealers see an opportunity and they are seizing it

Amy

Well thank you for the reply,I did not expect to get one,just the fact you have talked to Ford about it restores some of my respect.

I would like to see what the dealers would say if Mr.Shelby publicly spoke out against what they are pulling,just a lession in how far they have come on the lines of greed I guess.

Just based on what they are pulling now I have decided to cancel my 06 mustang I ordered and am now going with buying a 68 GT 500, I am finalizing the deal in a few days.

Againe thank you for your reply.

Tom (CrimeScene)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Tom,

It is extremely unreasonable to blame anyone other than the consumer, about the prices that are being placed on these cars!

When the chrysler open wheeled roadster came out in the mid ninties, it was being offered at 60,000 over munufacturer! Why? That is simple, DAMAND!!!!!!!! DEMAND!!!!!! DEMAND!!!!!!

The more the DEMAND the higher the price! Try and buy an original Shelby Cobra in original condition for less than 300-400 thousand dollars, by private sellers! This is the same car that was offered to the public for 4-6 thousand! If there was going to be 150,000+ "SVT-GT500'S" for sale the price would be much less. Realistically who can blame the owners of the dealerships for grabbing up one for themselves, especially with such a short production level?

Now here is the real deal! If the "public" demands more of the production and the munufacturer and the dealers can see the the cars will sale, then they might expand the production amount. Case in point the corvette is priced for the more weathly, and has a low production rate. this is because chevrolette knows that if they keep #"s low and cost up it will remaine an exlusive automobile.

So in end the public and there demand like yours keeps the cars that we dream of in the stratisfeer :huh: of prices.

T.C.W.

TTitus · May 6, 2006

It is extremely unreasonable to blame anyone other than the consumer, about the prices that are being placed on these cars!

When the chrysler open wheeled roadster came out in the mid ninties, it was being offered at 60,000 over munufacturer! Why? That is simple, DAMAND!!!!!!!! DEMAND!!!!!! DEMAND!!!!!!

I'd like to buy this argument, but I've seen better examples of a manufacturer trying to prevent gouging in recent years. Obviously , its not the same market, but consider the release of the xbox 360 in december. Microsoft loses money on each xbox it sells. However, demand was up sufficiently enough in December that Microsoft could have released the xbox well above margin until supply equilized. Instead, they released them at the promised price. A lot of stores did, however, gouge their customers -- forcing them to pay for "packages" that were overinflated and way out of touch with reality. The majority of the stores, however, decided that their customers' trust was more important. They released their boxes at normal pricing. Sure, some of the customers went out and listed their boxes at $2K, and that's where "the market" came into play. Today, I shop for my xbox games at the same store that sold me the box at a reasonable price -- even if I find it cheaper elsewhere.

This is the most devastating display of dealer greed I've seen. This car -- the hope of the car -- had some meaning for me that I can't really describe or detail meaningfully here. Obviously, its too late to do anything other than bury my head in my hands every time I see one pass me on the road. Its a beautiful machine -- one that Shelby should be proud to put its name on. I just wish those of us who can barely handle MSRP could be proud to own on. Good luck to the rest of you on getting on. I hope you do.

C0braFan · May 6, 2006

This is the most devastating display of dealer greed I've seen. This car -- the hope of the car -- had some meaning for me that I can't really describe or detail meaningfully here. Obviously, its too late to do anything other than bury my head in my hands every time I see one pass me on the road. Its a beautiful machine -- one that Shelby should be proud to put its name on. I just wish those of us who can barely handle MSRP could be proud to own on. Good luck to the rest of you on getting on. I hope you do.

Remember when the 2005 Mustang GT was so hard to find? Ford dealers couldn't keep them on the lot. They were ALL marked up. The dealers I visited justified the markups with their own idiotic little stick-on scoops and stripes. I've even seen a V6 convertible listed for $35k because it had some fake "California Edition" stickers on it. We're talking about CAR DEALERS. They are dishonest in the first place...so why should anyone expect some lofty morality about MSRP? Case in point...the crooked destination fee. When is the last time you've taken a cart full of groceries to the cashier, and had 10% tacked onto the price for the cost of shipping groceries to the store? Gimme a break... Why do consumers put up with this kind of BS? Impulsiveness, I guess. We're just used to being screwed, so we live with it? We're so addicted to products and marketing that we line up like lemmings? What happened to consumer power? It's still alive and kicking, but enthusiasts are eager to spend money. Just look at how badly Ford has been hit by the AFA boycott over the last 3 months....sales down 7% and climbing. I think dealer greed does have a detrimental long-term effect.

TTitus · May 6, 2006

Remember when the 2005 Mustang GT was so hard to find? Ford dealers couldn't keep them on the lot. They were ALL marked up. The dealers I visited justified the markups with their own idiotic little stick-on scoops and stripes. I've even seen a V6 convertible listed for $35k because it had some fake "California Edition" stickers on it. We're talking about CAR DEALERS. They are dishonest in the first place...so why should anyone expect some lofty morality about MSRP? Case in point...the crooked destination fee. When is the last time you've taken a cart full of groceries to the cashier, and had 10% tacked onto the price for the cost of shipping groceries to the store? Gimme a break... Why do consumers put up with this kind of BS? Impulsiveness, I guess. We're just used to being screwed, so we live with it? We're so addicted to products and marketing that we line up like lemmings? What happened to consumer power? It's still alive and kicking, but enthusiasts are eager to spend money. Just look at how badly Ford has been hit by the AFA boycott over the last 3 months....sales down 7% and climbing. I think dealer greed does have a detrimental long-term effect.

I remember the GT getting marked up, but I knew that would go down once supply went up. The GT500 supply is not going to go up in a significant enough amount that it will bring the price of the car down to a decent level. In defense of the destination fee, that fee is sort of justified. Shipping a car on those carriers and hiring enough qualified help to prep the cars once they come off the loader does cost them a decent amount. Ever paid to have your car shipped if you move across country? It isn't cheap by any means. But they don't do anything to the car when it arrives either. I apply that same logic and don't fault a dealer for the destination charge. It's usually about $400-600. That's much different than charging $20K because you can, though. Putting those cars in the hands of some rich folks who likely won't appreciate the car as much as us regular guys seems wrong, but then again, nothing in life is fair and the wealthy always get what they want. This shouldn't have been any more of a suprise to me.

Big Will · May 8, 2006

Don't fool yourself, prices for the GT 500 won't be falling anytime soon. If you want one you've got to pony up, so to speak.

4pasnu · May 8, 2006

I just went to a dealship and purchased a 2006 4x4 STX truck, they had a GT40 in the showroom $175,000 .. Beautiful car ! I then asked the sales manger when the Shelby would be in and how much it would be? He got all happy and told me how much they are going to make on mark-up! I then asked him how they could mark-it up on A-Z plan employees? He said they wouldn't except A or Z plan. At this point I'm allready tired of waiting for the truck to be preped and ready to go after all the payment back and forths till we agree. A little pissed at this point I tell him to give me a call when either the GT40 0r the first Shelby is purchased and I'll meet the new owners on the road and make them regret either purchase. He asks me how and I tell him about my mustangs that myself and friends have built, 95 GT that runs 10's and the 514 91 lx pushing over 1000 hp that sits right next to it waiting to be finished as soon as Pop's decides to get up off his butt and help complete it. At this point he thinks I'm BS ing him, and trys to brush me off till I go back home and take pics with my cell phone with times and dates on them. Then when he see's the pics and knows i'm dead serious the grin comes off his face as I describe the first Viper owner who couldn't beleive what just happened to him and stops and get's out of his car and wants a full explaination of why after he just paid large nickel for his car he got wiped out, or the first Vette owner and so on. How they get that smile on their mugs till the light goes green and you have leaped at least 5 to 6 car lenths ahead and have to slow down till they get next to you and ya hammer it again and leave them quickly!

My point is, Carrol Shelby is the bomb, I have at least 2 older pics of him on my walls and replicas of his cars all over the place. My basements is decorated around that theme and choppers, a bar, and a good airhockey table.

Mr. Shelby took what was offered and built it his way, you can do the same just pick up a wrench and get your hands dirty . I would love to own a Shebly, just can't see paying that much money for something I can do myself and make it faster and look just as nice or better for less money..

And I'm allmost 100 % sure that if you ran into to Mr. Shelby in one at a red light in some run of the mill looking Mustang and smoked him like a big dog he have a good chuckle, might even hafta pull over he'd be giggling so hard! Cause he knows what it feels like to build your own!

Thanks,

Rick

68fastback · May 10, 2006

I just went to a dealship and purchased a 2006 4x4 STX truck, they had a GT40 in the showroom $175,000 .. Beautiful car ! I then asked the sales manger when the Shelby would be in and how much it would be? He got all happy and told me how much they are going to make on mark-up! I then asked him how they could mark-it up on A-Z plan employees? He said they wouldn't except A or Z plan. At this point I'm allready tired of waiting for the truck to be preped and ready to go after all the payment back and forths till we agree. A little pissed at this point I tell him to give me a call when either the GT40 0r the first Shelby is purchased and I'll meet the new owners on the road and make them regret either purchase. He asks me how and I tell him about my mustangs that myself and friends have built, 95 GT that runs 10's and the 514 91 lx pushing over 1000 hp that sits right next to it waiting to be finished as soon as Pop's decides to get up off his butt and help complete it. At this point he thinks I'm BS ing him, and trys to brush me off till I go back home and take pics with my cell phone with times and dates on them. Then when he see's the pics and knows i'm dead serious the grin comes off his face as I describe the first Viper owner who couldn't beleive what just happened to him and stops and get's out of his car and wants a full explaination of why after he just paid large nickel for his car he got wiped out, or the first Vette owner and so on. How they get that smile on their mugs till the light goes green and you have leaped at least 5 to 6 car lenths ahead and have to slow down till they get next to you and ya hammer it again and leave them quickly!

My point is, Carrol Shelby is the bomb, I have at least 2 older pics of him on my walls and replicas of his cars all over the place. My basements is decorated around that theme and choppers, a bar, and a good airhockey table.

Mr. Shelby took what was offered and built it his way, you can do the same just pick up a wrench and get your hands dirty . I would love to own a Shebly, just can't see paying that much money for something I can do myself and make it faster and look just as nice or better for less money..

And I'm allmost 100 % sure that if you ran into to Mr. Shelby in one at a red light in some run of the mill looking Mustang and smoked him like a big dog he have a good chuckle, might even hafta pull over he'd be giggling so hard! Cause he knows what it feels like to build your own!

Thanks,

Rick

Right on.... It was good to see Ford at least try to help yesterday -- they announced they've upped production plans on the GT500 from 7000 to 9000 units. I think you'll see that number go even higher if demand warrants. That will definately help control the price gouging by the more unscrupulous dealers since they can't gouge if supply is adequate -- remember Ford is in the business of selling cars. They make not one extra cent if a dealer charges $40K or $80K. So, to some extent, the initial pop of demand will be a windfall for the dealers, but I have some faith that by wintertime, Ford will come through with more volume to get cars to the wanting -- they'd be stupid not to and Bill Ford is not stupid, especially since the GT500 goes down the same line as the GT and V6 stangs. The engine is fitted up in another adjoining building but the production line on the GT500 could, in theory, handle most any volume actually planned for. I think this forum and the Stangs Unlimited forums are being very closely monitored by Ford, along with Performance lease conversion orders to gauge what level of production will leave no left-overs. Remember, from Fords viewpoint, the right production level is enough to sell one to everyone on the planet who wants one and have none left over, because leftovers must be sold under MSRP and will canabalize sales for the next year's mustang goodies.

That said, I'm just as ticked off as everyone else that I can't find a dealer willing to be ethical and commit a specific and reasonable price. That might change when the MSRP is actually and finally announced -- sometime before 5/30, possibly as early as 5/20... we shall see -- hang in there. One thing's for sure, writing a letter to Bill Ford, the American Road, Dearborn Michigan will have a much more direct affect on how you feel about dealer gouging than anthing you write here. I've already written to him. He needs to hear how we feel, so I suggest spending an hour to write a carefully thought-out letter informing him of how dealers are acting, letting him now how you feel about that and how it sullies the Ford name, and asking him what he's going to do to manage the situation. Letters like that will have real impact. The GT500 factory rep told me that a letter is the most powerfull weapon we have... so let's get down to expressing how we really feel to the man who can actually make a diff ;-)

PS -- remember the Shelby GT500 is not a Carroll Shelby-made car -- these letters need to go to Bill Ford. Save your Shelby letters for the '08 GT500KR <grin>

amyb · May 12, 2006

Guys, This is really nothing new and said by many in other posts. Do you remember when the PT cruiser came out? that car was going for 10k+ over sticker! It is all about demand and frenzie. I agree with the statement above, unlike over cars over priced in the beginning, this one will not go down. Its the first year of the Shelby prodction model and its the 40th anniversay year as well.

I am also glad that Ford raised the number, I have heard from many people who are getting these cars from dealerships that they have been loyal too. These people are paying sticker up to 10K. We always hear the horror stories or the "ebay stories" but there are many dealers who are not gouging. when demand is this high, it's impossible to make everyone happy

Amy

T.C.Watkins · May 26, 2006

Right on.... It was good to see Ford at least try to help yesterday -- they announced they've upped production plans on the GT500 from 7000 to 9000 units. I think you'll see that number go even higher if demand warrants. That will definately help control the price gouging by the more unscrupulous dealers since they can't gouge if supply is adequate -- remember Ford is in the business of selling cars. They make not one extra cent if a dealer charges $40K or $80K. So, to some extent, the initial pop of demand will be a windfall for the dealers, but I have some faith that by wintertime, Ford will come through with more volume to get cars to the wanting -- they'd be stupid not to and Bill Ford is not stupid, especially since the GT500 goes down the same line as the GT and V6 stangs. The engine is fitted up in another adjoining building but the production line on the GT500 could, in theory, handle most any volume actually planned for. I think this forum and the Stangs Unlimited forums are being very closely monitored by Ford, along with Performance lease conversion orders to gauge what level of production will leave no left-overs. Remember, from Fords viewpoint, the right production level is enough to sell one to everyone on the planet who wants one and have none left over, because leftovers must be sold under MSRP and will canabalize sales for the next year's mustang goodies.

That said, I'm just as ticked off as everyone else that I can't find a dealer willing to be ethical and commit a specific and reasonable price. That might change when the MSRP is actually and finally announced -- sometime before 5/30, possibly as early as 5/20... we shall see -- hang in there. One thing's for sure, writing a letter to Bill Ford, the American Road, Dearborn Michigan will have a much more direct affect on how you feel about dealer gouging than anthing you write here. I've already written to him. He needs to hear how we feel, so I suggest spending an hour to write a carefully thought-out letter informing him of how dealers are acting, letting him now how you feel about that and how it sullies the Ford name, and asking him what he's going to do to manage the situation. Letters like that will have real impact. The GT500 factory rep told me that a letter is the most powerfull weapon we have... so let's get down to expressing how we really feel to the man who can actually make a diff ;-)

PS -- remember the Shelby GT500 is not a Carroll Shelby-made car -- these letters need to go to Bill Ford. Save your Shelby letters for the '08 GT500KR <grin>

The GT500 is in fact a "CARROLL SHELBY" car! Carol worked with the svt team closely on this vehicle and only such a vehicle could bare his name and emblem on it!

Ford is producing the cars for shelby becuase the production numbers are too high for the las vegas plant to produce.

Now, on to the main topic of this thread. As I have said in posts earlier, do not blame those that are selling the cars at 10-20,000 dollars over msrp. Blame yourselves. It is becuase of the overwhelming responce to what might be one of the last production runs in Carrols life time. I truly hope for more, ubt, I have to be a realist. Now from what I have been able toput together is: some people have placed the 10-20k deposit and will be taking delivery on their gt500's only to relase them.

Most of US including myself probely will not be able to afford these cars. That is fine with me though. the cost to insure such a car would probably be huge.

On a personal not I am kind of glad that the cars are selling at a higher dollar amount in hopes that they are going to treat it like a true collectable that it will most definetly become, Instead of being wraped around some tree or in a ditch/ gulley somewhere.

If you want a "race car" then do what that guy that posted above did "BIUlD IT YOURSELF" in a TRUE Carrol Shelby fasion and spirit of things.

68fastback · May 27, 2006

The GT500 is in fact a "CARROLL SHELBY" car! Carol worked with the svt team closely on this vehicle and only such a vehicle could bare his name and emblem on it!

Ford is producing the cars for shelby becuase the production numbers are too high for the las vegas plant to produce.

Now, on to the main topic of this thread. As I have said in posts earlier, do not blame those that are selling the cars at 10-20,000 dollars over msrp. Blame yourselves. It is becuase of the overwhelming responce to what might be one of the last production runs in Carrols life time. I truly hope for more, ubt, I have to be a realist. Now from what I have been able toput together is: some people have placed the 10-20k deposit and will be taking delivery on their gt500's only to relase them.

Most of US including myself probely will not be able to afford these cars. That is fine with me though. the cost to insure such a car would probably be huge.

On a personal not I am kind of glad that the cars are selling at a higher dollar amount in hopes that they are going to treat it like a true collectable that it will most definetly become, Instead of being wraped around some tree or in a ditch/ gulley somewhere.

If you want a "race car" then do what that guy that posted above did "BIUlD IT YOURSELF" in a TRUE Carrol Shelby fasion and spirit of things.

Well, maybe we're saying the same thing but from a different perspective, but I don't think so. The GT500, though I can't wait to get mine and will likely keep it and love it dearly for the rest of my life, is more analogous to Ralph L. sunglasses. Yes, Ralph collaborates on the design (sort of, he has 'approval' rights under the contract) and, yes, it bears his name (by contract) and yes they have features other's don't (approved by Ralph but not designed specifically by him or his direct employees) and the sunglases are manufactured in the same factory that makes multiple brands of sunglasses, but, essentially, it's little more than a contract. Kind of like Martha Stewart paint. You won't find any Martha Stewart employees blending pigment and anti-UV agents and testing the exposure durability over on the farm in CT. However, her team does review and 'collaborate' on the product, packaging and colors. I don't mean to throw cold water on anyone's enthusiasm or denegrate the GT500 in any way -- and Carroll Shelby has been an idol of mine since childhood both as an amazing racer and car magician (I'm nearly 60, Carroll has to be in his 80s now) but if you think the GT500 development and production process is directly driven by Carroll in any way materially akin to the original Shelby GT350, you are very mistaken. Those cars merely started as Ford production cars to which Shelby-designed, Shelby-engineered (mostly) and Shelby-contracted 'magic' (body, suspention and chassis parts and engine modifications) was Shelby-conceived and executed (even if the rear lights on the '67s&'68s were from a T-bird and the sequencer from a Cougar) by Shelby employees (mostly). The '07 GT500, as awesome and rightfully praiseworthy as it is, is engineered by Ford Motor Company with contract-level collaboration sufficient to assure a product consistent with the negotiated contract parameters. Is Carroll essentially getting paid for his name, status and cachet? Certainly, and rightfully so -- he conceived and created the legendary originals. But I doubt that there is one part number on the GT500, including the "shelby" lettering on the rear deck lid , that has been engineered and produced by Carroll separately from Ford. I have no problem with that, but this is 2006, my friend -- it's a contract. That was my point.

As far as the high ADM (dealer markups) go, hang in there and have faith. In a survey conducted online solely of folks that already have GT500s on-order, well over 70% were contracted at MSRP. So a minority of greedy dealers are sullying the name of most. The range of 'deals' I've seen run from 'we sell at MSRP because we think it's bad PR to sell any car over MSRP' ...to... 'remember when we told you that you had an order at MSRP? -- well, you don't, it's now $20K over; do you still want it?' I believe that, by winter the prices will come down. If you want one this year at MSRP (getting harder by the minute), seek out Ford dealers who are 2005 Presidents-Award dealers. They have highest priority for first VIN pulls and are AHEAD of SVT dealers in first-sequence ship priority. Next is the SVT dealers (Focus- and other-SVT). If you wait, you run the risk of paying over MSRP or having to take an '08 (the GT500 wil be produced for two years), but by this time next year when the next flavor-of-the-year 2-year hi-po model is announced (e.g. Boss, Mach, Bullit -- some in-plan already, some not) the GT500 price will come down. Ford is in the business of selling cars. Ford makes not one cent more on a car if the dealer gouges or sells it at MSRP. I know of people who have diligently searched around and gotten MSRP deals committed as recently as the last 2 weeks (including at least one who found a small-town rural dealer that hadn't even heard of the GT500 yet ;-). Besides upping '07 production to 9000, Bill Ford has also exercised Ford ability to prevent dealers from selling the GT500 through resellers -- within 2 days the reseller offers were pulled from e-bay (though some dealers still have their own bid-to-buy listings posted there). If you wat until '08 realize that the first engines (Romeo plant) will be built by the most experienced 2-man teams, but I don't think there will be any 'bad' GT500s -- it's just good sense to have your best teams seed the process as production ramps up.

I certainly agree with Amy B. that it's supply and demand and the demand (and the 'hype') is driving some of the rediculous ADMs, but if the supply is gauged right and the next hi-po 'stang-of-the-year announcement converts some remaining demand forward (as such announcements always do) having at a GT500 at MSRP (or less?) should be doable, if not by winter, then in '08.

After all -- Ford controls the 'supply' and Carroll is 'de man' ;-)

Sssss · July 5, 2006

Well, maybe we're saying the same thing but from a different perspective, but I don't think so. The GT500, though I can't wait to get mine and will likely keep it and love it dearly for the rest of my life, is more analogous to Ralph L. sunglasses. Yes, Ralph collaborates on the design (sort of, he has 'approval' rights under the contract) and, yes, it bears his name (by contract) and yes they have features other's don't (approved by Ralph but not designed specifically by him or his direct employees) and the sunglases are manufactured in the same factory that makes multiple brands of sunglasses, but, essentially, it's little more than a contract. Kind of like Martha Stewart paint. You won't find any Martha Stewart employees blending pigment and anti-UV agents and testing the exposure durability over on the farm in CT. However, her team does review and 'collaborate' on the product, packaging and colors. I don't mean to throw cold water on anyone's enthusiasm or denegrate the GT500 in any way -- and Carroll Shelby has been an idol of mine since childhood both as an amazing racer and car magician (I'm nearly 60, Carroll has to be in his 80s now) but if you think the GT500 development and production process is directly driven by Carroll in any way materially akin to the original Shelby GT350, you are very mistaken. Those cars merely started as Ford production cars to which Shelby-designed, Shelby-engineered (mostly) and Shelby-contracted 'magic' (body, suspention and chassis parts and engine modifications) was Shelby-conceived and executed (even if the rear lights on the '67s&'68s were from a T-bird and the sequencer from a Cougar) by Shelby employees (mostly). The '07 GT500, as awesome and rightfully praiseworthy as it is, is engineered by Ford Motor Company with contract-level collaboration sufficient to assure a product consistent with the negotiated contract parameters. Is Carroll essentially getting paid for his name, status and cachet? Certainly, and rightfully so -- he conceived and created the legendary originals. But I doubt that there is one part number on the GT500, including the "shelby" lettering on the rear deck lid , that has been engineered and produced by Carroll separately from Ford. I have no problem with that, but this is 2006, my friend -- it's a contract. That was my point.

As far as the high ADM (dealer markups) go, hang in there and have faith. In a survey conducted online solely of folks that already have GT500s on-order, well over 70% were contracted at MSRP. So a minority of greedy dealers are sullying the name of most. The range of 'deals' I've seen run from 'we sell at MSRP because we think it's bad PR to sell any car over MSRP' ...to... 'remember when we told you that you had an order at MSRP? -- well, you don't, it's now $20K over; do you still want it?' I believe that, by winter the prices will come down. If you want one this year at MSRP (getting harder by the minute), seek out Ford dealers who are 2005 Presidents-Award dealers. They have highest priority for first VIN pulls and are AHEAD of SVT dealers in first-sequence ship priority. Next is the SVT dealers (Focus- and other-SVT). If you wait, you run the risk of paying over MSRP or having to take an '08 (the GT500 wil be produced for two years), but by this time next year when the next flavor-of-the-year 2-year hi-po model is announced (e.g. Boss, Mach, Bullit -- some in-plan already, some not) the GT500 price will come down. Ford is in the business of selling cars. Ford makes not one cent more on a car if the dealer gouges or sells it at MSRP. I know of people who have diligently searched around and gotten MSRP deals committed as recently as the last 2 weeks (including at least one who found a small-town rural dealer that hadn't even heard of the GT500 yet ;-). Besides upping '07 production to 9000, Bill Ford has also exercised Ford ability to prevent dealers from selling the GT500 through resellers -- within 2 days the reseller offers were pulled from e-bay (though some dealers still have their own bid-to-buy listings posted there). If you wat until '08 realize that the first engines (Romeo plant) will be built by the most experienced 2-man teams, but I don't think there will be any 'bad' GT500s -- it's just good sense to have your best teams seed the process as production ramps up.

I certainly agree with Amy B. that it's supply and demand and the demand (and the 'hype') is driving some of the rediculous ADMs, but if the supply is gauged right and the next hi-po 'stang-of-the-year announcement converts some remaining demand forward (as such announcements always do) having at a GT500 at MSRP (or less?) should be doable, if not by winter, then in '08.

After all -- Ford controls the 'supply' and Carroll is 'de man' ;-)

Very well put my brother!! That's why I'm hoping for an '08 Shelby model with Carroll's complete touches on it,..starting with the weight,..and working over the whole car! 07 is a nice start,...but I need too see as well as have, more of Carrolls touch too it, that I have perviously mentioned in several of my other posts! Come on KR or R model!!!

ShelbyDude · March 4, 2007

I know this is an old thread, but I am very curious about everyone whinning about dealers marking up this car. Everyone is crying and complaining about wanting to pay MSRP! So let me ask you all you all something. Do you all gladly walk into dealerships offering to pay MSRP on every car you buy or just this particular car????

My guess is that none of you would ever pay MSRP on any average car, truck or suv. When it comes to an everyday produced vehicle I bet you are sitting there at the dealer trying to buy for less than dealer invoice! WHY????

Well we know why. The lots are filled with average everyday vehicles so we all beat the dealers to death to get invoice or below. But the minute a limited production car comes along then we are begging to pay MSRP and if we can't get it for that then the dealers are all a bunch of crooks! Only it's not the dealers doing it! It's the CONSUMERS doing it!

Face it. There are a LOT more people wanting the car then there are cars being built! So the CONSUMERS are only more than willing to pay whatever price it takes to get one! How is that the dealers fault???

Put yourself in the same situation. Assume you owned a 69 Shelby GT500. New that car cost about $5k. Today the same car sells for over $200k!

So lets assume YOU owned one of these 69 GT500's and you were selling it. Two people show up to buy it. One says he will pay you $200k and the other says, wait a minute! I was here first! So I should get first dibs on buying this from you! The car only cost $5k new and now it is 38 years old! I will give the $5k it cost new! What are you going to do??? Say, you're right! OK, it's yours and tell the other buyer to take his $200k and find another car and take the $5k because the other guy was there first? Of course you wouldn't! You wouldn't take it if he was the only buyer standing there because you know what the car is worth! How is this any different than a dealer???

On the other hand lets look at all those buyers that were GOOD CUSTOMERS of a dealership that were lucky enough to get one of these for MSRP. You know what those GOOD CUSTOMERS did after they got their cars? They SOLD THEM FOR A FAST $10k PROFIT! Some GOOD CUSTOMER, eh???

I know of several dealers that bought these cars from customers that they got for MSRP and the dealers paid them $10k over what they paid for it!

Lets assume every dealer did sell them for only MSRP? What do you think YOUR chances of getting one would really be??? ZERO! You would never get one! Not unless YOU were some dealers TOP CUSTOMER! Every single one of these would all go to the dealers BEST customers before any Tom, Dick or Harry off the street!

Even if you were a customer of a dealer that you purchased all your cars from. Does that make YOU their BEST customer??? I suppose if you buy 3 or more vehicles from them per year EVERY YEAR! That MIGHT make you one of their best customers! And that is also assuming you have those vehicles serviced their on a regular basis! Not just when you have a warranty issue. But SERVICED REGULARLY! Routine oil changes. Routine maintenance. During and after the warranty is up!

So, are YOU a GOOD CUSTOMER that spends over a $100k per year every year at your dealership? Do yopu have any idea of how many dealers actually have customers that do spend this kind of money? I would bet every single dealer has at least 2 or 3 customers that do. And with most dealers only getting ONE of these Shelby's to sell, just how realistic would it be for you to get one if every dealer sold every one of these for just MSRP???? What would your chances be??? ZERO!!!!

I know id I were a dealer willing to sell my allocation of these for just MSRP I would be on the phone to my BEST LOYAL CUSTOMERS offering it to them long before I sold it to just anyone wanting one! I would owe to those customers first since they were loyal to me and spent more money at the dealership than most any other customers!

So if you really think about it, it is because of the dealer premiums that a LOT of you even have a CHANCE at being able to buy one of these! If it wasn't for the premiums every single one would have been snatched up by one of the dealers REALLY GOOD CUSTOMERS!

Of the few REALLY GOOD CUSTOMERS that were lucky enough to get one for MSRP....they turned around and sold it to the highest bidder to make a fast buck off the dealer! I guess you could say those lucky few are bigger crooks than the dealers you complain about!

Just look at the Shelbys that have been listed by private party's on ebay! Selling their right to buy for a premium. Selling their Shelby after getting it home for a premium! Yet everyone is crying about the dealers!

It is NOT the dealers! It is the PUBLIC that drives up the pricing! What kind of an idiot would take $10k - $30k less for something because some person thinks they are entitled to it for less???

BTW, for those that complained about not being able to buy one on their A/Z/X/D Plan because no dealer will sell it for that..........FORD will not honor any plans on this car. This car is EXCLUDED from any plans offered by FORD!

FORD also excludes this car from any rebates and special financing rates offered on Mustangs!

FORD also charged the dealer $1,500 just to be able to get ONE of these cars to sell! Plus the tools the dealer is required to purchase in order to work on this car!

So any dealer that got ONE car to sell and if they sold it for just MSRP....they made NO MONEY ON IT!

Of course if EVERY CONSUMER REFUSED TO PAY ONE PENNY OVER MSRP....GUESS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN???? They would all sell for MSRP or less just like every other new vehicle sold in the country!!! So HOW is that the DEALERS fault??? It is the CONSUMERS FAULT FOR PAYING IT!

And for the person crying about the destination fee.....that is a charge made by FORD....NOT the dealer! The MANUFACTURER is the one that charges any destination fee! It is on the invoice and is charged to the dealer! Now if a dealer is adding additional destination charges on top of the destination charge on the invoice then that is BS! Assuming the dealer isn't incurring additional cost to go get the vehicle for a customer that is located somewhere else where the dealer has to pay more to get there.

Ask yourself this and be honest with yourself. Would YOU sell this car for just MSRP if it were YOU and you knew you could EASILY get $10k - $30k more for it??? You know you wouldn't! So why do you think the dealer should???? Because YOU want one and that is all you want to pay???? Get real!