GT350 or Boss329 but Make it a Road Car!

[68fastback]

I'm much less hung up on names. For me new Boss or GT350 needs to be:

 

 

A road car: lighter, handling, real balance, 50/50 (52/48 WORST CASE!!!!), IRS (I know, I know, but I still want it. It's not a road car with out it -- use the old one, they handle 400HP fine without slicks)

 

6-spd only (no automatic, please!), 3:31 traction-lock

 

Alum N.A. 5.4 DOHC long runner intake

 

No frills: Tach, speedo, oil, temp...

A/C, CD-FM old 460 sound system max, o/h map lights (driver and nav) -- that's it.

 

Console? if you must for some handy storage -- else, not necessary

 

Great seats -- not pretty-boy inserts, not leather... functional, ass-gripping, well-bolstered, cloth seats.

 

Correct seating position... the '99-'04 Cobras didn't let the seat go back far enough (I'm only 6'1.5") and my knees hit the column with the seat all the way back and I have to tilt the back far back to not have my head in the headliner with the seat all the way lowered down -- what the heck is that? Even then, it was awkward.

 

Pedal heights you can actually heal-toe with (no, not like the '99-'04 cobras -- it was impossible to do right) located so your legs are actually fairly straight (not with your knees in the dash like the cobras)

 

Dead pedal on left (should go without saying)

 

Forget about cupholders, navigation systems and other nonsense -- if I want em I'll buy em.

 

Battery in the trunk -- really.. it' .6-.7% w.d. improvment! (don't need no stinking spare ;-)

 

Koni down-lock adjustable shocks and stiffer springs ... the more the road undulates the more I want them to pull down against the springs and hunker the car down -- no bilsteins on this one -- want hi-bias adjustable down-locks!

 

Give it a fully functional, no frills personality at 3250lbs max. Offer a "group-deopt" if necessary to get the weight down. Ask Carroll Shelby or Steve Saleen what you need to take out ;-)

 

Do this and advertise it as a true road car in keeping with the traditions of the GT350 (maybe a better idea??) and it will sell like snowcones in the desert!

 

Some of us actually enjoy hi-performance DRIVING. My Boss will never see a drag strip -- never-- I will drive the heck out of it wherever and whenever I can. You wouldn't bring a pro-mod to Watkins Glenn so why would you ever want to bring a Boss or a GT350 to the drags. This is a separate market segment that is going unserved by Ford Motor Company.

 

If I have to buy a fat, gizmo-laden, leather-trimmed Boss and disassemble it myself, I just won't buy it! Time to give the real drivers a car with true character, balance and functional trim.

 

Ford, can you do this? I know you can 'cause mostly it's all things you have already -- and things I want you to NOT provide. You can do this. Build it and we will come ;-)

 

Thank you....

 

OK, LET'S HEAR FROM THE DRIVERS IN HERE!

[68fastback]

OK, LET'S HEAR FROM THE DRIVERS IN HERE!

 

 

Wow! Six months later and I still feel the same ;-)

 

MustangFanatic, you never found this thread? I'm sending the Boss police looking for ya

 

-Dan

[svtbird91]

Dan , I must have missed this post back in June. The only thing that I might disagree with is your choice of rear gears. The 373s would be a better fit for open track driving especially if HP is around 400. They would be needed to pull the car out of the turns and down the straights.

 

Other than that ,the Batt in trunk,3250 lbs,nat asp,Alum5.4 /long runner intake and Kony adjustables are right on ! I might add long tube headers to 3" back.

 

I'm sure in order to accomplish this there would have to be a delete option package ("no frills ") like you said.

 

Sounds like the street version of the "Man racer" ?

[68fastback]

Dan , I must have missed this post back in June. The only thing that I might disagree with is your choice of rear gears. The 373s would be a better fit for open track driving especially if HP is around 400. They would be needed to pull the car out of the turns and down the straights.

 

Other than that ,the Batt in trunk,3250 lbs,nat asp,Alum5.4 /long runner intake and Kony adjustables are right on ! I might add long tube headers to 3" back.

 

I'm sure in order to accomplish this there would have to be a delete option package ("no frills ") like you said.

 

Sounds like the street version of the "Man racer" ?

 

 

Hi, George... yeah, street manracer for sure -- that's kinda the problem ...I'm with you on the headers and gears, just figured Ford would want to ship small gears anyway to dodge the gas guzzler -- gotta keep FRPP profitable ;-) Or they could just put a servo in the shift gate, like the Vettes, that forces you to shift from 1st to 4th unless your "on it" <lol -- just kiding> GM still does that just to dodge the gas guzzler tax on the C-vetttes -- designed expressly for the EPA test simulations -- I imagine that's the first wire to get pulled. But, yeah, 3.73s are probably ideal, or 4.10s if it's a screamer, with a wide-ratio double-OD 6-spd

 

I'm starting to realize how addicted I am to this whole 'second-coming' when I think: gee, an ovesquare SOHC H/Boss hemi is nice but when is the DOHC version coming??!!

[MustangFanatic]

Wow! Six months later and I still feel the same ;-)

 

MustangFanatic, you never found this thread? I'm sending the Boss police looking for ya

 

-Dan

 

 

Dan, where have I been?? I must have hit my head to have missed this one!! I guess I'm under arrest!!

 

I would agree with everything you stated except of course that I would like to see a DOHC 5.0L Boss engine under the hood pushing out over 400 hp. And yes, I do suffer from dillusions of all alloy DOHC Boss Of course a nice 5.8L all alloy Boss series engine would be a nice second choice.

 

The key point we have been talking about all along is we want a true drivers car, no fancy luxury do-dads - I mean I don't need no navigation system because when I'm driving this baby the only place I care to be is where I am!! Total Peformance has to be the single purpose for a new Boss or GT350. I would prefer the Boss name but if they build such an animal, I could care less what it is called. All I have to say to Ford, is PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE build it!!!

[68fastback]

Dan, where have I been?? I must have hit my head to have missed this one!! I guess I'm under arrest!!

 

I would agree with everything you stated except of course that I would like to see a DOHC 5.0L Boss engine under the hood pushing out over 400 hp. And yes, I do suffer from dillusions of all alloy DOHC Boss Of course a nice 5.8L all alloy Boss series engine would be a nice second choice.

 

The key point we have been talking about all along is we want a true drivers car, no fancy luxury do-dads - I mean I don't need no navigation system because when I'm driving this baby the only place I care to be is where I am!! Total Peformance has to be the single purpose for a new Boss or GT350. I would prefer the Boss name but if they build such an animal, I could care less what it is called. All I have to say to Ford, is PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE build it!!!

 

 

Ah, you found it? <lol>

 

Actually, I haven;t been getting notifications for a couple of days and I just happened to check in here.

 

Good to see your smilin' keystrokes, Fanatic

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Ah, you found it? <lol>

 

Actually, I haven;t been getting notifications for a couple of days and I just happened to check in here.

 

Good to see your smilin' keystrokes, Fanatic

 

.

 

 

Better late than never I suppose!! Still wondering when Bill Ford or HTT is going to call and ask my opinion on the content and design of the new Boss....

[crispy23c]

I agree with you punks

400 (+ or -, preferrably ++) HP, 500-ish pounds lighter than the '500, and the car we are all discussing would be a killer to sell your right arm for....the eternal questions are....

 

Are they listening (I believe so)?

Will they build it? I hope so! We need this!!!!!

My main reasoning for wanting a GT350 is that I want a 'vert (my concession for my toy), and I know they wouldn't ever build a Boss 'vert, or I would order that....

Call me crazy, but I want a convertible like we are describing. If this never happens, I will probably go '500...or buy a Shelby GT coupe and stick their blower on it (that's around 425 HP and around 400 lbs lighter than a '500. I have my back-up plans.....I just hate to compromise!

[MustangFanatic]

I agree with you punks

400 (+ or -, preferrably ++) HP, 500-ish pounds lighter than the '500, and the car we are all discussing would be a killer to sell your right arm for....the eternal questions are....

 

Are they listening (I believe so)?

Will they build it? I hope so! We need this!!!!!

My main reasoning for wanting a GT350 is that I want a 'vert (my concession for my toy), and I know they wouldn't ever build a Boss 'vert, or I would order that....

Call me crazy, but I want a convertible like we are describing. If this never happens, I will probably go '500...or buy a Shelby GT coupe and stick their blower on it (that's around 425 HP and around 400 lbs lighter than a '500. I have my back-up plans.....I just hate to compromise!

 

 

Crispy, I think there are several of us that are tired of the compromise. There is a strong, vocal minority that want and need a purpose built, killer street/road course car set up for optimal performance in all categories - acceleration, handling and braking. As Dan originally stated a true DRIVER'S car!! I do believe Ford is listening and a Boss will be built. The question that remains is how true to our collective vision will the new Boss be? Personally if the new Boss came very closed to the PJ Saleen for a mid-thirties price tag, I'd be beyond excited.

 

I would agree, I doubt Ford would make a Boss 'Vert but you never know. Let's just hope none of us have to compromise too much.

[crispy23c]

We can only hope that they build something like the PJ- when they build the Boss- for mid 30's. What's the PJ? $55k? Anyway, I have a real soft spot for the '350 as I owned one of those (a '67, serial #2189) and loved that. It handled awesome. I recently had a '69 '500 'vert (#2602), and did not like that as much (the handling was not there). So I figure a new '350 with a blown 4.6 would do the trick-- even in 'vert form as this chassis is pretty stiff. Now all I have to do is to convince Shelby & Ford to build one! :hyper: :hyper:

I'll gladly test their prototypes!!!

 

In all seriosity (new word I just made up), we'll probably see a Boss before we would see a '350 -- or a convertible, for that matter

[MustangFanatic]

I agree with you Crispy, if Ford needs someone to test their Boss prototypes, I'm available!!!

 

You are probably correct that the Boss will preceed the GT350. Personally, my interest lies in a new Boss but I'd like to see Ford/Shelby produce a GT350 worthy of the nameplate. For me, the GT350 exemplified the true essence of a Shelby Mustang more than the '500 but that's just my humble opinion.

[crispy23c]

I agree with you Crispy, if Ford needs someone to test their Boss prototypes, I'm available!!!

 

You are probably correct that the Boss will preceed the GT350. Personally, my interest lies in a new Boss but I'd like to see Ford/Shelby produce a GT350 worthy of the nameplate. For me, the GT350 exemplified the true essence of a Shelby Mustang more than the '500 but that's just my humble opinion.

 

 

+1million Both of these cars should rip your heart out and leave it on the pavement-- in a good way!

[MustangFanatic]

+1million Both of these cars should rip your heart out and leave it on the pavement-- in a good way!

 

 

...while ripping apart the pavement and the competition!!

[gt50035]

guys, i was just browsing the latest edition of motor trend and they are saying ford will produce only 1,000 boss mustangs in 2008. not sure where they got their info but for what it's worth. if that is true, talk about giving your right arm for a car of that magnitude and so small production numbers. they also said the engine would be the 5.0l hurricane at 425 hp.

[crispy23c]

guys, i was just browsing the latest edition of motor trend and they are saying ford will produce only 1,000 boss mustangs in 2008. not sure where they got their info but for what it's worth. if that is true, talk about giving your right arm for a car of that magnitude and so small production numbers. they also said the engine would be the 5.0l hurricane at 425 hp.

 

 

Thanks gt50035, but M/T has been wrong a few times in the past...a few*. Anyway, this is the GT 350 thread (just kidding, post what's relevant). I'll bet you a buck that they produce more than 1,000. They need the money and they wouldn't produce just 1,000 with that brand new engine. Developement costs way too high. I will bet that the dealers will claim only 1,000- citing that M/T article on their eboy auctions-- anyway.

 

 

*Webster's online: "few- feu: 3 times. In publishing, use 10,000 as a multiplicitor "

[gt50035]

Thanks, but M/T has been wrong a few times in the past...a few*. Anyway, this is the GT 350 thread (just kidding, post what's relevant). I'll bet you a buck that they produce more than 1,000. They need the money and they wouldn't produce just 1,000 with that brand new engine. Developement costs way too high. I will bet that the dealers will claim only 1,000- citing that M/T article on their eboy auctions-- anyway.

*Webster's online: "few- feu: 3 times. In publishing, use 10,000 as a multiplicitor "

 

 

i hear ya. i doubt the 1,000 number too. it just wouldn't make any sense to build so few when so many would want, but then again, it's ford and they have done some pretty crazy things before. guess we'll just have to wait and see. the bottom line is that they are producing a boss and/or gt350 and that is great for all mustang lovers. however many they build it will be nice to have them out there kicking ass.

[MustangFanatic]

Thanks gt50035, but M/T has been wrong a few times in the past...a few*. Anyway, this is the GT 350 thread (just kidding, post what's relevant). I'll bet you a buck that they produce more than 1,000. They need the money and they wouldn't produce just 1,000 with that brand new engine. Developement costs way too high. I will bet that the dealers will claim only 1,000- citing that M/T article on their eboy auctions-- anyway.

*Webster's online: "few- feu: 3 times. In publishing, use 10,000 as a multiplicitor "

 

+2!! M/T is the automotive equivalent of the National Enquirer IMHO. I highly doubt Ford would produce a 1,000 of anything on purpose. Besides, imagine would happen to the collectibility status of the GT500 if Ford were to produce only a 1,000 Boss Mustangs.

[68fastback]

Funny, but it doesn't seem too far fetched that Ford could do the following (indulge me a little ;-):

 

-Do a NA modular based low-production Boss/GT350 (2008?)on the present S197:

This would be essentially the swan song of the DOHC NA modular motor as the premier Ford V8. The H/Boss would usurp that role in the future though it could remain the base, for example, of the 'stang GT. The GT350 could be the Shelby derivative and offer the warranty-risky mods/options that Ford is loath to do from the factory, like Paxton/Vortech add-on, FRT suspension pieces, etc. None of this would 'interfere with the tape&sticker SEs like Bullitt, S-GT (sort of ...ok, I said it <lol>), etc.

 

-Do the NA H/Boss [big Boss (429?)] and the LS7 Camaro-killer*** (tall order, but they BETTER be thinking that way) (2009) on the refreshed S198[?]:

This would essentially be the new hi-po na base upon which all manner of analogous current variations could be built. A revised Boss and/or BigBoss, revised GT500, etc. I suspect in this timeframe the H/Boss would be a 2-valve in the trucks and a 3-valve in the Boss/GT500/derivatives

 

-Do the Killer H/Boss DOHC in the bottom-up reengineered 2012 'Stang

I want this MUCH EARLIER, but I'm trying to be realistic -- Ford will stretch out development to 2012 unless they truly received a Bold-Moves lobotomy -- sure hope so, but...!!!! Nuf said ;-)

 

*** Here's another case (#1,643 I think <lol>) where GM's using the 'Vette as a development platform to both spin derivatives and drive production costs down on real hi-po pieces works to their advantage. Ford needs to WAKE UP TO THIS GAPING HOLE IN THEIR ENGINEERING PROCESS STRATEGY (a hole that's only 53 years old now!!!! ...or '51 dpending upon weather you use 'Vette years or T-bird years <sigh>). GM showed a 427 LS7 in a short-bed lightweight lowered Sierra (GM SVT-Lightning anyone?), and in just about any car/truck with wheels -- and lets not forget their crate motor program -- turnkey full-electronics LS7 crates one point and click away! (Ok, Ford's crates are coming on now ...needs urgency tho and more full-electroinic serious crates). The GM 427 Sierra they showed had the full LS7 too, dry sump with tank, lightweight rotating assembly including titanium rods and valves... just like the in the Z06. That's how to send a message at SEMA, Ford was asleep this year ...but I digress.

 

My point is that our beloved Ford needs to make a fundamental decision that they will lead, not wait for GM to catch up in '08/'09 with Camaro so Ford has someting to compete with. GM is now committed to the Camaro and DCX to the Challenger. The best thing Ford can do is cut their b@!!$ off from day-1 -- show no mercy and make sure they have to chase you -- what a concept! Leadership, don't leave management school without it!!

:beatdeadhorse:

 

HTT: your mandate is above -- do it and you'll go down in history as the rightfull heir of Coletti's well-deserved rep as a knight-in-shining-armor and you will be held high on the shoulders of the faithfill as a true hero returning from victory. Take the safe 'measured competition' traditional Ford corporate approach and you might get Mark Fields job one day but will have to hide from us enthusiasts and will always have that sick-spot in your heart -- no matter how much money you personally make. You've shown you're smart, now lets see you apply it from your customer's perspective, not just the corporate perspective -- it's a tough line for most in your situation to even find (you're smart and already know where it is!) but is MUCH tougher to step across and leave the safety and pats on the head behind (you're presently just 'smartly walking' it -- yes, we know). Now, you need to step-over it, turn around, pi$$ on it once for good measure, and make true leadership and segment-defining hi-peformance cars be your mantra -- humor the executives by making your revenue commitments and hold them off on managing your business segment for you -- and do what you know you need to do. Do it well and we will shower Ford with money. Stay luke warm and, well, I think there's an old bible story there.. it's not a pretty sight <lol>

end of

 

<ok, now I can let my BP cool down [lol] and think holiday cheer -- had to get that off my chest ...you all have a safe and hapy holidays and healthy and hi-po new year! >

[crispy23c]

Wow, Man. Just...wow. Great read. Don't know if Ford is listening. They must have thought of a few of these things (I hope).

The GT350, I am nearly positive, would be made at FoMoCo as they own the rights to GT350 & GT500. My thought would be that they would use the 4.6 dohc Cobra motor for this car. I'm just afraid that they would add to much extra weight to it. I was really hoping thet the Shelby GT w/Blower option was to be the '350 (300-400 lbs lighter than the GT500, with 470HP), but that never happened. Maybe Ford would get the message and make it that way when the '350s turn arrives, but I guess we'll have to wait & see.

[MustangFanatic]

Great post Dan, as always!! I'd love to see Ford offer a real Boss 302 (or GT350) with the current DOHC All-Alloy mod engine architecture in MY '08 but I think one or two scenarios are possible (1) the project is already dead and Ford is focused on MY '09 or '10 for a new Boss Mustang (2) Ford will produce a very limited number of Boss 302 Mustangs using a stroked DOHC all-alloy version of the 4.6L engine as motivation. I don't put much stock in what M/T reports but it is possible they could have some of their facts straight - a MY '08 Boss 302 Mustang that will be essentially a street legal racer produced in very limited numbers. If Ford chose that route I would be seriously disappointed as the car would be reserved for only the very rich and Ford would again leave the average enthusiast out in the cold. I certainly hope that is not the case and if Ford does indeed produce a Boss 302 Mustang in MY '08 that they do so in sufficient quantity to make them affordable for those of us who desire a new Boss.

[crispy23c]

+1 on the Boss, they need to make more than a few for sure. BTW, the '350 is not dead/dormant/pushed aside. It's on the table @ Ford, and unless status changes, it's just a question of "what year" they will produce it, and with what powertrain. I do believe we will see the Boss first, though. It's all good!

[MustangFanatic]

+1 on the Boss, they need to make more than a few for sure. BTW, the '350 is not dead/dormant/pushed aside. It's on the table @ Ford, and unless status changes, it's just a question of "what year" they will produce it, and with what powertrain. I do believe we will see the Boss first, though. It's all good!

 

 

Absolutely agreed!! I'd love to see Ford offer both models - just hopefully not at the same time, that would immensely complicate my purchase decision...

[crispy23c]

Absolutely agreed!! I'd love to see Ford offer both models - just hopefully not at the same time, that would immensely complicate my purchase decision...

 

 

 

I would like them to offer both at once. Why? Maybe, finally, the supply of muscle would meet demand..and we would all get what we want without the flippin' dealers ADM!

 

I should make a bumper sticker: "I wanna buy a new Ford, they just won't let me"

[MustangFanatic]

I would like them to offer both at once. Why? Maybe, finally, the supply of muscle would meet demand..and we would all get what we want without the flippin' dealers ADM!

 

I should make a bumper sticker: "I wanna buy a new Ford, they just won't let me"

 

 

+1!!!! When do I get my bumper sticker??

[crispy23c]

+1!!!! When do I get my bumper sticker??

 

 

Yup, I should do a run of these things for most of the folks on this board!

[moabman]

I would love to see a streetable version of the FR500C. Mods would include two race seats instead of one. I think airbags would be required as would pollution controls. The present DOHC "Cammer" would be great along with the 500C's suspension and brakes. Too bad this will set us back around $100K.

[68fastback]

In 2005 I kidded Chip Foose at the SEMA Overhaulin' build, that it would be so cool to do a mustang with the Ford GT engine/transaxle.

 

He said he's wanted to do that for some time! How cool would that be?! :hyper:

 

Who needs a back seat anyway?!!

 

<Oh, Chris, my friend, I sure hope SU fixes the e-mail notofication problem soon -- I'm going nuts here ... it's so hard to keep in touch with all the good stuff. I've been without it for hearly a mointh now but others have been broken for almost three months ...gasp... ;-)>

[kb67]

I would love to see a streetable version of the FR500C. Mods would include two race seats instead of one. I think airbags would be required as would pollution controls. The present DOHC "Cammer" would be great along with the 500C's suspension and brakes. Too bad this will set us back around $100K.

 

 

+1

Its all that and a bag of chips