MMcGuirk Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Hi, I would like to share my experience with Fay's 2 and modifying my 06 GT's suspension. I started 2 years ago with Eibach's Pro kit and an adjustable panhard bar. While the look was what I was trying to acheive, the ride was terrible. There were limited shock options at that time, no Konis, Bilsteins or Tokico D-Specs available. A local tuner shop in SJ had a demo car with the Saleen suspension installed. After a test drive, I was sold. It was far superior to what I had tried, but the Panhard bar was still not right. Saleen actually makes a solid, correct length bar bar that is standard on the 281E. I rode this way for a year. Close, but still not quite right. While a Fun Ford Weekend in SoCal this past October, Jim Jr from JDM engineering suggested I look into a Watt's Link. his customers have been reporting great improvements in handling, traction and ride. I found two suppliers offering this product, Saleen and Fay's2. I chose the later. The Saleen version mounts the pivot point to a new rear end cover. That just didn't appeal to the engineer in me. Fay's2 mounts the pivot point to a subframe that replaces the panhard bar and support brace. The install was strait forward. (this has to done a ride height, I used two sets of Rhino ramps and did it on a creeper) Jim Fay's tech support was almost 24/7. We installed on a Sunday and he answer his phone every time we called. The results are unbelieveable. The ride and the compliance, of both front and rear suspension, are so vastly improved that even my wife noticed the difference. I can't rave about this enough. I can't imagine having an S197 without a watt's Link! Jim Fay's website - fays2.net - email Jim for the install guide and set up instuctions, you won't be sorry. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6-Speed Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I have heard good things about the Watts link. What characteristics about the panhard bar did you not like? And do you sacrifice any rearend ground clearance with the Watts link - does any part of it sit below the bottom of the differential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted December 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I have heard good things about the Watts link. What characteristics about the panhard bar did you not like? And do you sacrifice any rearend ground clearance with the Watts link - does any part of it sit below the bottom of the differential? Regarding Panhard bars in general, the exist because they are cheap. If you measure your car with stock suspension, odds are you are going to find that the rear axle is biased to the drivers side. when you lower the car, you will further enhance this offset. I tried multiple adjustable bars and found them to add NVH. The factory S197 bar is sand or shot filled to lessen NVH. The Saleen 281E bar (length optimized for their suspension) is a high quality piece. It was way smoother than the others I tried. The watt's link really improves the roll center and allows somewhat of independent suspension movement left to right. It seems, by making the rear work better, the front works better. The Fay's 2 sub-frame sits at differential ride height. I have not experienced any clearance issues. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90GT Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Hi, I would like to share my experience with Fay's 2 and modifying my 06 GT's suspension. I started 2 years ago with Eibach's Pro kit and an adjustable panhard bar. While the look was what I was trying to acheive, the ride was terrible. There were limited shock options at that time, no Konis, Bilsteins or Tokico D-Specs available. A local tuner shop in SJ had a demo car with the Saleen suspension installed. After a test drive, I was sold. It was far superior to what I had tried, but the Panhard bar was still not right. Saleen actually makes a solid, correct length bar bar that is standard on the 281E. I rode this way for a year. Close, but still not quite right. While a Fun Ford Weekend in SoCal this past October, Jim Jr from JDM engineering suggested I look into a Watt's Link. his customers have been reporting great improvements in handling, traction and ride. I found two suppliers offering this product, Saleen and Fay's2. I chose the later. The Saleen version mounts the pivot point to a new rear end cover. That just didn't appeal to the engineer in me. Fay's2 mounts the pivot point to a subframe that replaces the panhard bar and support brace. The install was strait forward. (this has to done a ride height, I used two sets of Rhino ramps and did it on a creeper) Jim Fay's tech support was almost 24/7. We installed on a Sunday and he answer his phone every time we called. The results are unbelieveable. The ride and the compliance, of both front and rear suspension, are so vastly improved that even my wife noticed the difference. I can't rave about this enough. I can't imagine having an S197 without a watt's Link! Jim Fay's website - fays2.net - email Jim for the install guide and set up instuctions, you won't be sorry. Michael Thanks for the write up!!! This is my next mod and it's nice to hear from another satisfied Fays2 customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niswonger Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 What other suspension mods are on the car? What shocks/springs are on the car? Can you do the watts link w/o other mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90GT Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 What other suspension mods are on the car? What shocks/springs are on the car?Can you do the watts link w/o other mods? Yes you can do the Watt's link with other suspension mods. My car has Eibach Springs, Tokico D Spec's, LCA's, BMR Adj upper third link, and Steeda Panhard bar/brace. The only thing the Watts link replaces is the panhard bar and brace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Yes you can add the Watts link, Watts Fay2 Link, Saleen Watts Link or the JDM/Saleen watts link to a stock mustang or Shelby GT500 suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhof303 Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 For what it is worth, no experience from me first hand but I have heard that the Watts Link is the must have for an active autocross/road racing S197. I haven't heard much about people running this setup on the street, though if it were me, if it works on the track I can probably tolerate it on the street. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted December 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 What other suspension mods are on the car? What shocks/springs are on the car?Can you do the watts link w/o other mods? I have saleen's shocks, springs and front sway bar, BMR billet LCAs and adjustable UCA. Rear bar is stock, but Fay's have a write up on their site showing a Steeda rear bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgussin1 Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 I have read that the fay's2 watts link is noisy, is that true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted December 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 I have read that the fay's2 watts link is noisy, is that true? Mine is quiet. I was concerned that the heim joints would make noise...nothing so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtkriechen Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Mine is quiet. I was concerned that the heim joints would make noise...nothing so far. Excuse my ignorance, but, what specifically does the Watt's Link do? From what I've read here, it looks like it improves handling, and I guess I'm wondering what exactly you "feel" in the ride that's such a night and day difference over stock? Does it also help prevent wheel hop? Thanks, - Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted December 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Excuse my ignorance, but, what specifically does the Watt's Link do? From what I've read here, it looks like it improves handling, and I guess I'm wondering what exactly you "feel" in the ride that's such a night and day difference over stock? Does it also help prevent wheel hop? Thanks, - Josh I am no expert, but I can share my experience. The stock suspension is uses three control arms to locate the rear end. The panhard bar is used to center the rear axle under the body. it is attached at the right side to the body and at the left to the axle. As the suspension articulates or travels, the panhard allows the rear to return to center. Nothing exotic but cheaply effective. A watt's link replaces the panhard bar. The watt's has a center pivot point. In the case of an S197, either located on a sub-frame (Fays) or differential cover (Saleen). This pivot point has a bearing and two arms that attach the bearing point to either side of the rear axle. This allows a smoother and more precise centering of the rear axle in this type of suspension. Whew! From a handling standpoint, watt's links improve the roll center. From a ride standpoint, having two attachment points on the axle with a pivot in the middle, the watt's link gets rid of the panhard's bias to one side and the rear springs tend to operate less as team and more independently. I love the improvement this mod has made to my car. A word of caution, the set up is not automatic. The Fay's unit I installed is very adjustable to compensate for different types of suspensions and ride heights. It took me a couple of adjustments to get it dialed in. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcGuirk Posted December 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 I am no expert, but I can share my experience. The stock suspension is uses three control arms to locate the rear end. The panhard bar is used to center the rear axle under the body. it is attached at the right side to the body and at the left to the axle. As the suspension articulates or travels, the panhard allows the rear to return to center. Nothing exotic but cheaply effective. A watt's link replaces the panhard bar. The watt's has a center pivot point. In the case of an S197, either located on a sub-frame (Fays) or differential cover (Saleen). This pivot point has a bearing and two arms that attach the bearing point to either side of the rear axle. This allows a smoother and more precise centering of the rear axle in this type of suspension. Whew! From a handling standpoint, watt's links improve the roll center. From a ride standpoint, having two attachment points on the axle with a pivot in the middle, the watt's link gets rid of the panhard's bias to one side and the rear springs tend to operate less as team and more independently. I love the improvement this mod has made to my car. A word of caution, the set up is not automatic. The Fay's unit I installed is very adjustable to compensate for different types of suspensions and ride heights. It took me a couple of adjustments to get it dialed in. Michael As far as wheel hop goes, both Saleen and Fay's claim to that their products reduce it. I did not have huge wheel hop problem to start with. My car just would not hook up at all in 1st gear. my next drag strip trip will be January 12th. I will let you know about traction then. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtkriechen Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 As far as wheel hop goes, both Saleen and Fay's claim to that their products reduce it. I did not have huge wheel hop problem to start with. My car just would not hook up at all in 1st gear. my next drag strip trip will be January 12th. I will let you know about traction then. Michael Michael, Thanks for the in-depth info! That makes a lot more sense now. Can't wait to see how your next track day goes. May the Watt's be with you! - Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Great write-up, Michael! Thanks for taking the time to share. It's on my list now! Ruf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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